Manufacturing DA - A New Chiller

[Phil@PnP Tech]

How much is a used mill? That is way cool. Looks like things are coming right along.

I would love to have a NC mill... one day I will! Until then, I will let the pro's burn the chips.

Phil - I'm seriously considering this.... What would this mean for a Maggie owner? Would I ditch the magnuson air/water heat exchanger entirely? Plumb this in after the a/w h/e?

Do you have a list of buyers for the initial 10?

^^^^^^
Waiting on the Maggie update also

You can chose to keep the water to air HX and really not a bad idea for a street car. It will need to be plumbed in series with the chiller. The air to water HX will need to be bypassed while the chiller is operating though. The air to water will actually add heat back into the chilled water. This can easily be done with a with some simple off the shelf parts (A ~$14 74809 vacuum actuated bypass valve and a vacuum solenoid). I plan on providing these components as this matures but my main focus now is to get the basic kits operational and on some cars. I am not a fan of the vacuum bypass valve and plan to develop a simple 12v valve.

I do have a running list of those who have shown interest. Once I have kits in boxes ready to ship, I will go down that list and offer it to those first. I have not asked for deposits are taken payments ahead of time. I am fully funding the start of this and have put a lot of thought, work, and testing to make this to highest performing kit on the market.

I do believe 3 of the first 5 on my list are maggie cars.

[STL_G8GT]

I would love to have a NC mill... one day I will! Until then, I will let the pro's burn the chips.






You can chose to keep the water to air HX and really not a bad idea for a street car. It will need to be plumbed in series with the chiller. The air to water HX will need to be bypassed while the chiller is operating though. The air to water will actually add heat back into the chilled water. This can easily be done with a with some simple off the shelf parts (A ~$14 74809 vacuum actuated bypass valve and a vacuum solenoid). I plan on providing these components as this matures but my main focus now is to get the basic kits operational and on some cars. I am not a fan of the vacuum bypass valve and plan to develop a simple 12v valve.

I do have a running list of those who have shown interest. Once I have kits in boxes ready to ship, I will go down that list and offer it to those first. I have not asked for deposits are taken payments ahead of time. I am fully funding the start of this and have put a lot of thought, work, and testing to make this to highest performing kit on the market.

I do believe 3 of the first 5 on my list are maggie cars.

Put me on the list as a buyer, please. I'm also interested in the 12v valve, and won't do the install (but would buy with first run) until there are components available to have it done in a way that you'd recommend.

[Phil@PnP Tech]

This is how easy it is to install the Frostbite chiller. It fits right behind the drivers side headlight.

20170621_213628.jpg



This is just a trial fit of a few things. The insulation kit is still loose and I have yet to install it on the lines. Also, I still need to add the rubber edging to the brackets so there isn't any metal to metal contact.

There are no holes to drill or flimsy brackets. Simple and secure.

Also, it clears the rotofab intake.
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20170621_220059.jpg

I will post videos of installing the liquid and suction taps in the next few days. They are just as easy!

[Darkmanx]

sweet

[-Ray-]

Will you be able to provide the diverter valve to bypass the GM OEM HX? Also, I have my HX pump mounted to the frame. I should have room, but I'll get you a dimension today.

[Phil@PnP Tech]

Will you be able to provide the diverter valve to bypass the GM OEM HX? Also, I have my HX pump mounted to the frame. I should have room, but I'll get you a dimension today.

I have electric controlled bypass valve on the way to evaluate. It has a simple stepper motor that only 0.6A to switch from open to close. It can be wired to automatically bypass the HX when the AC is on.

If you can, sent me a photo of where your pump is mounted.

[Phil@PnP Tech]

I have been getting questions regarding self servicing and installing AC components. I know it can be intimidating and rightfully so. There is the risk of personal injury when dealing with refrigerants as well as some legal issues (The EPA and the Clean Air Act).

First thing I would like to address is personal injury. If you do not feel comfortable working on a refrigeration system or you do not have the proper equipment, DO NOT attempt to install any of the Frostbite chiller components without first consulting with a trained technician. The refrigeration system in a car equipped with R-134a can be pressurized at up to 250psi. If the system is opened under pressure, the rapid evaporation of the refrigerant can cause serious injury if exposed to your skin.

The legal side of things is a bit more complex. It is illegal to knowingly and willingly vent any refrigerant into the atmosphere and this does include R-134a. Removing the existing refrigerant from your vehicle is one of the very first steps in installing the Frostbite chiller. Removing the refrigerant requires special recovery equipment. The recovery equipment does more than just remove the refrigerant, it also controls the oil in refrigerant system. The quantity of oil in the AC system is key to it's performance. Too little oil and components can quickly fail due to heat. Too much oil can slug the compressor as well as insulate the heat transfer components resulting in poor performance. When servicing refrigeration systems, the in/out method is often employed to maintain an accurate amount of oil in the system. Even the GM manual has a chart for how much oil to add for each component replaced. This is also an adverse effect of venting the refrigerant to the atmosphere. The velocity of the refrigerant venting will convey the oil and spray it out. You wont know how much oil was lost if it sprayed on your hood insulator. Most recovery machines will have an oil separator. The technician should be able to clearly tell you how much oil was lost in the recovery process. This way, you can add that oil back in before you close the system up. Some smaller recovery systems do not have an oil separator. They are much slower at recovery and low enough velocity that minimal oil is lost (if any at all). Another thing to note is to let the recovery machine pull a vacuum for at least 15 minutes. Refrigerant can get trapped in the compressor. It is not uncommon to hear some clanking or rattling coming from the compressor while recovering. It is often followed by a brief increase in pressure due to trapped refrigerant being released. Most recovery machines can pull 12-15 inHg of vacuum. It is wise to backfill the system with a little Nitrogen. This reduces the amount of moisture exposed to the system. If you open the system under vacuum, it will suck in air (and moisture).

Back to the legal stuff. There are certain refrigerants the EPA requires a license to even attach a set of gauges to the equipment. The most common are CFC's (ie R-12) and HCFC's (ie R-22). The EPA really has a death grip on those refrigerants but that is completely different topic. HFC refrigerants however are completely legal for anyone to buy and service. These include R-134a(automotive/appliance) and R-410a (residential)... for now at least (it's not true for that in EU and I'm not sure about AU). You can get on Amazon and buy a 25lb cylinder of R-410a or walk into Walmart and fill your cart with 12oz cans of R-134a. The beginning of 2018 that all changes though. Unlicensed buyers of HFC's are limited to 2 lbs and all sellers are to keep track of to whom and how much they sold. Kind of like buying pseudoephedrine today at the pharmacy.

Since is it legal for the general public to buy R-134a, it is HEAVILY marketed. Got to any auto parts store and see just how fancy they make R-134a. You will find super synthetic, freeze booster, sealers, dyes, high mileage, with NASA technology... R-134a is R-134a is R-134a. They will put all kinds of crap in it to make you buy it. If you do buy it, reach down to the bottom shelf and get the plainest can without any additives. And "Synthetic" R-134a is like going to the grocery store and buying cow milk... yeah we know it's from a cow and all R-134a is synthetic.

So in short, I recommend you find a competent shop that services AC. It can be as simple service to recover the refrigerant. Take your car home (I suggest with the windows down), and finish the Frostbite chiller installation. Setup a second appointment to add back in the refrigerant back in.

Adjusted refrigerant capacity will be supplied with the kits. The necessary oil required for the chiller will already be added when you receive the kit. The only oil that will need to be added is if any was lost during the recovery process.

-Phil

[-Ray-]

I'll try and get that today. Supposed to be under a 100 degrees for once.

EDIT: BTW, great post above.

[Phil@PnP Tech]

I recieved the liquid taps/race valves as well as the suction taps today. These are top quality parts. They will perform as good as they look.

Here is a quick peak at the assemblies.



This is the liquid tap and race valve. It's hard to capture the detail due to the black anodizing. It installs directly to the condensor outlet. The fitting coming out of the side is the liquid hose that connects to the chiller. Again, no adapters, welds, or pipe threads. The adapter is specifically machined to accept the pilot oring fitting. The wiring harness is for the race valve. This is a normally open valve. No voltage means the cabin ac and chiller are working. Apply 12v and the valve closes off the cabin ac.



This is the suction tap. Again it is specifically machined to accept the pilot oring ac fitting. The port on the side is the return from the chiller. The is not a generic welded part, it is specified to fit the G8. The suction hose routes away from the engine, under the intake, and along the frame rail. This may help those running a custom FI setup were clearance around the power steering pump is necessary.

I still need to make 1 one stop to get the parts etched with logos and serials.

-Phil

[-Ray-]

Hopefully this will give you an idea.