Lower control arms

[Slizzo]

OK, so I know quite a few of us are having issues with this right now. Just got off the phone with my dealership and the Service Manager told me that the parts are still on national backorder, and that he's waiting on the set for my car as well as a couple others that have been through the shop.

Any of you guys have any more information on this? I really don't want to have to foot the bill and buy parts myself then have them replace them, as I'm sure it wouldn't get done under warranty.

[norm8332]

It took 2 weeks for mine to arrive.

[Slizzo]

Been 3 and a half already for me... Otherwise I wouldn't be posting here about it. :boxing: :)

[Chewy]

Greg has one in stock now. I should have mine very soon... I ordered direct from Paul in AU and will replace myself.

I need to have Greg get me the left one though.

Probably go out soon too.

[Mike P]

What's the problem with the lower control arms?



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[Panzer Leader]

Doesn't Pedders make some aftermarket ones?

[wreckwriter]

Doesn't Pedders make some aftermarket ones?

No, BMR does.

[dandragonrage]

No, BMR does.

I believe we're still talking about fronts.

[wreckwriter]

I believe we're still talking about fronts.

Front lower control arms? Hmmmm.... wasn't aware there was such a thing.

[dandragonrage]

Front lower control arms? Hmmmm.... wasn't aware there was such a thing.

There most certainly is. There are front uppers on some vehicles, too, though not ours since we have MacPherson struts.

[Crazy Paul]

Here's a pic.
Front Suspension.
Rear Left.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/G8frontarms1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010105.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010103.jpg

[norm8332]

Greg has one in stock now. I should have mine very soon... I ordered direct from Paul in AU and will replace myself.

I need to have Greg get me the left one though.

Probably go out soon too.

My right one was replaced under warranty, but I think my left one is starting to do it now. So you might as well get it.

The guy at the dealer acted as if they were changing them on a ton of G8s.

[dandragonrage]

I think I might need it done, too. When I turn left I get what I can best describe as like a clicking feeling. Happens a few times. It can be felt more than it can be heard.

[Slizzo]

My right one was replaced under warranty, but I think my left one is starting to do it now. So you might as well get it.

The guy at the dealer acted as if they were changing them on a ton of G8s.

Yeah, service manager at my dealer said that they have 2 or 3 sets of them on order, I think he said he was ordering left and right side even though I only hear the noise from the front left right now...


Yeah, this stinks. On one hand, I don't really want to drive around in the car (it's my DD, so I'm kinda screwed on that front), but he assures me it's not a safety issue. But it does seem like the noise is getting worse (starts creaking and groaning sooner, seems louder, though that could be just that it's more annoying now).


And, like I said, I really don't want to have to pay for the parts myself and find someone to do it, as the fix IS free because it's covered by warranty. That and I know I won't be keeping the car past lease end.

[Snakey]

Add me to the list as well! Had the left side done a month ago, having the right side done once that parts come in off the boat. I was told today that the ship is in the water, just not for sure when it'll arrive. Looking at likely 3-4 weeks. Bugs the crap out of me because it rattles and has a moaning noise along with it.

[GotMyG8V8]

I was griping about not being able to go to the track because of both of my control arms waiting to be replaced. I spoke to the guy today and he said that best estimate from gm when he called me back was they will receive the parts on the 18th, and he would get them within a week from then. So no track for me on the 21st.

On a side note, this guy says to me he thinks he knows why they might be on national backorder. So i wait to here this brilliant idea. He says well they stopped production of the g8 because of pontiac going down...yeah yeah ok....so...Well they're ramping up production again because the g8 is going to be the new impala....rrrrrright ok thanks for checking on the parts, have a good day...lol

[Panzer Leader]

Is not the G8 suspension the same as the Commodore, the Vauxhall, the Buick Park Ave and the Chevy Caprice? And are not these cars still in production? So are these models having the same problem as well? And BTW, if one side goes out, is it safe to say the other side will not be far behind? And could someone please let me know the difference between the BMR and factory part. Thanks.

[Slizzo]

Is not the G8 suspension the same as the Commodore, the Vauxhall, the Buick Park Ave and the Chevy Caprice? And are not these cars still in production? So are these models having the same problem as well? And BTW, if one side goes out, is it safe to say the other side will not be far behind? And could someone please let me know the difference between the BMR and factory part. Thanks.

Yes, these parts should be readily available in Australia, but it seems that GM did not have Holden ship enough spare parts to the States for warranty and replacement. So, it looks like we need to wait for the Holden factory to churn out a shipment for us and get it on the slow boat to California.


Sigh, I suppose I should have seen this coming buying a "Domestic Import"...

[norm8332]

These are definitely defective. What a pain. I would drive it anyways, I drove mine for a month with the clunking going on.

[dandragonrage]

What are you guys that are ordering these on your own paying for them anyway?

Also, will a bushing replacement suffice or does the whole thing need to be replaced?

[Mike P]

What are you guys that are ordering these on your own paying for them anyway?

Also, will a bushing replacement suffice or does the whole thing need to be replaced?


Or better question, if we buy the BMR left & right front control arms, should we replace the bushings as well? (Or will the BMR bushings be fine?)

Does Pedders make bushings for the front left & right control arms?


Subscribing......



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['02 ws6]

Or better question, if we buy the BMR left & right front control arms, should we replace the bushings as well? (Or will the BMR bushings be fine?)

Does Pedders make bushings for the front left & right control arms?


Subscribing......



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Good questions, I'd like to know the same things as well. Subscribing also.
BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104

[Crazy Paul]

Guys we are talking about the front suspension.

Specifically the item boxed here in green (No 5) & the same control arm on the opposite side of the car.
The reported problems all seem to be the BALL JOINTS.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/G8frontarms1.jpg

[norm8332]

I guess someone forgot how to make ball joints that last more than 15,000 miles. (in my case)

[Rob@WretchedMS]

Pedders makes bushings for the front lower control arms, as well as the radius rods.

For the BMR rear trailing arms, use the bushings that are in them already. We do not supply parts for BMR.

[Crazy Paul]

I guess someone forgot how to make ball joints that last more than 15,000 miles. (in my case)

It's a weird problem. I've spent time researching it and the problem does not seem to exist in Australia on the VE cars which have the same parts fitted.

http://www.forum.grrrr8.net/showpost.php?p=122247&postcount=17

More on Front Suspension Control Arms & Ball Joints here:
http://www.forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=8785

[Panzer Leader]

It's a weird problem. I've spent time researching it and the problem does not seem to exist in Australia on the VE cars which have the same parts fitted.

http://www.forum.grrrr8.net/showpost.php?p=122247&postcount=17

More on Front Suspension Control Arms & Ball Joints here:
http://www.forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=8785

Now thats really wierd. Same part but no problems, there has to be a reason. So, we are now in agreement that the problems include BOTH the ball joints and the control arms? If so, what are the remedies? Did the Pedders Street II include the bushings for the lower front control arms? I believe that package did include the ones for the radius rods. My how I love kit cars.

[MitsukiGT]

Maybe the boat ride has something to do with them failing?

[Crazy Paul]

This is a Front Suspension Control Arm.
At one end is a ball joint, at the other end is a bushing.
When you buy a new genuine front control arm it comes complete like in the picture.
I do not think any aftermarket vendor mentioned in this thread has a solution for upgrading the ball joint.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010105.jpg

[Mike P]

So the problem that people are having (when they do have a problem), is that the ball joint on the front control arm, is either bad or going bad.......



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[Crazy Paul]

So if we were to order a Front Suspension Control Arm (left & right) a Genuine GM Part, would it be the exact thing that's already on our car?
How is that better, that part could just break again for the people that are having the problems with these.
Or are these newly produced Front Suspension Control Arms suposed to be problem free from GM now? ...


Here are the part numbers, ask GM yourself. Nobody I've asked here in Oz knows of the problems North America are having.

92183309 - RH -
92183310 - LH -

[dandragonrage]

Hmm... Can the ball joint be pressed out and replaced separately once Moog/Spicer get around to making them for us?

[Crazy Paul]

So the problem that people are having (when they do have a problem), is that the ball joint on the front control arm, is either bad or going bad..........

YES


Hmm... Can the ball joint be pressed out and replaced separately once Moog/Spicer get around to making them for us?

Can't see why not.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010103.jpg

[Panzer Leader]

Here are the part numbers, ask GM yourself. Nobody I've asked here in Oz knows of the problems North America are having.

92183309 - RH -
92183310 - LH -

Right, I bet I would get an honest answer too. After at least four months I believe that this thread has really cleared up a lot of questions and misunderstandings of what parts are and are not the problems. It would appear that the problem was probably caused during the shipping process. That it affected the strut bearings and bushings and possibly the control arm and ball joints. That the front strut design was poor to begin with. And that the Pedders parts that are currently available do correct some of the problems. That hopefully, there will be additional aftermarket parts (Pedders or others) OR redesigned GM parts which may further correct said problems. Does this summarize the issue? Hard to believe that you could cram all those cars on one ship, and that the same mistake in lashing the 2008 cars was repeated with the 2009. Personally, I think there are still unresolved issues and answers regarding the front suspension. Like the X Files the truth is out there.

[Mike P]

If the conrol arms themselves are not breaking, but only North American problems are being found with the ball joints. I'd be content to just replace the factory/stock ball joints once Moog/Spicer makes them.....



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[Mike P]

So it'd be something like this?


https://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Crane-Dana-44-Spicer-Heavy-Duty-Ball-Joint-Kit-p-20000.html



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[dandragonrage]

Something like that, yeah.

[Panzer Leader]

Agree, don't think I will tempt fate with using OEM replacement parts. Hey Mike with Pedders how much for these bushings? I guess the next will be the Pedders Rear Camber Kits as well. Next time someone asks, "Who makes that car"? I'll just say, "Why its a Pedders of course."

[Chooch]

I can add, had my car in for NYS inspection, told them to check out the right front control arm and ball joints, appears the driver side front was very tight and in perfect shape. The passenger front was bad. Even so before they called my in to explain, they had a rental car waiting for me as the tech was like, I dont want you driving this. All covered under warranty including rental. Even showed them the forum here and the tech was like good info to have..... Since I am going away for 2 weeks for vaca, it is what it is, but looks like the lower ball joint is very suspect on driver side.

[Mike P]

I can add, had my car in for NYS inspection, told them to check out the right front control arm and ball joints, appears the driver side front was very tight and in perfect shape. The passenger front was bad. Even so before they called my in to explain, they had a rental car waiting for me as the tech was like, I dont want you driving this. All covered under warranty including rental. Even showed them the forum here and the tech was like good info to have..... Since I am going away for 2 weeks for vaca, it is what it is, but looks like the lower ball joint is very suspect on driver side.


I think you mean the passenger side is very suspect, right?

In any event, it would be nice to have some after market & higher tolerance spec. after market ball joints available......

These would be nice to have to put on the car when I get my Pedders Street 1 installed.......


...

[Chooch]

Mike, you are correct, my bad ,Passenger side was fubar. No clue on eta yet will ask Monday.

[99-LS1-SS]

This is a Front Suspension Control Arm.
At one end is a ball joint, at the other end is a bushing.
When you buy a new genuine front control arm it comes complete like in the picture.
I do not think any aftermarket vendor mentioned in this thread has a solution for upgrading the ball joint.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010105.jpg

Paul, you make me laugh! :crazyman:

[Chewy]

OK guys, I got my lower control arm in from Paul and replaced it yesterday. It took maybe 30 minutes from start (removing wheel) to finish (Installing wheel) to replace this part.

Unfortunately it made NO difference in getting rid of my clunking even though it WAS bad. I took a video of both of them to share on youtube and once I get my laptop back I plan on posting it up.

The original one WAS bad and I could feel it in the steering but it didn't get rid of the horrible clunk I have when ever the front right hits a bump.

I am literally done with this car. If I could trade it in now I would. In a heartbeat.

I HATE it. I HATE driving it. I wish I would have never bought it.

I have true and utter disgust for this car.


Sorry but....
F GM!

Chris

[dandragonrage]

Sample size: 1
Problems: a few
Resolution: fuck GM!

:wacko:

[Chewy]

YEP!

I'm done with 'em...

Sample size is more than 1.

I'm sick of their lack of quality...

[Mike P]

That sucks, I am totally sorry to hear that. Can you take it to the dealership & have them try to get rid of that clunking sound?

Good luck with this..... And, that ball joint was bad too? Huh.....



...



OK guys, I got my lower control arm in from Paul and replaced it yesterday. It took maybe 30 minutes from start (removing wheel) to finish (Installing wheel) to replace this part.

Unfortunately it made NO difference in getting rid of my clunking even though it WAS bad. I took a video of both of them to share on youtube and once I get my laptop back I plan on posting it up.

The original one WAS bad and I could feel it in the steering but it didn't get rid of the horrible clunk I have when ever the front right hits a bump.

I am literally done with this car. If I could trade it in now I would. In a heartbeat.

I HATE it. I HATE driving it. I wish I would have never bought it.

I have true and utter disgust for this car.


Sorry but....
F GM!

Chris

[MitsukiGT]

Maybe some video\audio of this clunking would help members diagnose the problem.

I have only owned GM vehicles and have had mixed results. Our 2002 TB is junk, put almost 10K in the thing the last 4 years alone. Had a 1998 Grand Am that was junk. However my 1997 Sunfire has over 240K on it, never any major problems and now the neighbors kid is abusing it, but it still is going strong. Also had a 1988 Astro van that I lost count on mileage and it ran strong up until last year when I gave it away. Not sure how it is doing now. So I had 2 good ones and 2 bad ones.

[Chewy]

That's the quality issue I speak of. They need to have a MUCH smaller failure rate IMO.

I know we (U.S.) can do it!

Why are WE having these ball joint issues? Why aren't the other VE cars having them?

I need to get the video posted on youtube so you can see the difference in the used and new unit.

I am taking it to Modern Muscle in Oswego IL. to have it looked at. I will have them disassemble the front end of the thing if I have to. I'm sick of working on it now. I'm hoping it's a Pedders suspension issue now that I have eliminated the ball joint. Some may remember the video I posted up of the creaking the strut bushing or bearing was making. I hope it's something related with that. It sounds like an old car with the strut bearings going out or worn out. It's a solid clunk on EVERY bump. EVERY BUMP! I live in frost heave heaven Iowa for god sacks! Pothole alley...

However... I WAS able to get rid of the headliner noise it was making. I still have two more doors to put the Raammat on and under the rear seat and I'll be done.

Chris

[Chewy]

New part and old part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcjPSPsWLAQ


Chris

[grandmacpubah]

OK guys, I got my lower control arm in from Paul and replaced it yesterday. It took maybe 30 minutes from start (removing wheel) to finish (Installing wheel) to replace this part.

Unfortunately it made NO difference in getting rid of my clunking even though it WAS bad. I took a video of both of them to share on youtube and once I get my laptop back I plan on posting it up.

The original one WAS bad and I could feel it in the steering but it didn't get rid of the horrible clunk I have when ever the front right hits a bump.

I am literally done with this car. If I could trade it in now I would. In a heartbeat.

I HATE it. I HATE driving it. I wish I would have never bought it.

I have true and utter disgust for this car.


Sorry but....
F GM!

Chris


I'm not saying I wouldn't be pissed, because I would be...I had terrible suspension issues on my g35...compression rods replaced twice before 40K, brakes replaced 3 times (rotors and pads) but you are coming across a little over-reactionary lol...

It'll work out, they'll find the problem and hopefully you don't have any more issues with it.

I don't think we can blame GM per say, because from what I understand these are the same parts used on the Aussie cars. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not beating up on you, I feel bad for you, I've been there. Sometimes it helps to take a step back, deep breath, and look at the big picture. It's just a car. Good Luck.

[Chewy]

Did it take you 7 months to get your car? I waited 7 MONTHS for this car. Ordered in March and delivered in the end of October.

It's been one thing after another with it. Taking this off and that off and taking it here and there...

This isn't a new issue. This is a series of issues.

I think I have the 2-3 flare as well...

Hey... The engine runs strong though. Had to have a new motor mount installed though. WTF? Have replaced one once before on my '90 F150 with 130,000 miles on it.

Chris

[Crazy Paul]

Why are WE having these ball joint issues? Why aren't the other VE cars having them?

That's the intriguing thing and the No1 question to be answered.
Seeing as your clunk remains after fitting a new ball joint (in the form of a new control arm), then it seems to me as if we've found an effect [worn ball joint] rather than a cause { ??? }.

There's a theory floating around on that other forum about the way cars are tied down on the boat causing the problem. If that's the case then there should be similar faults occuring with Holdens/HSV's in the Middle East, UK, Asia, New Zealand.
Going against that theory would be opinions from suspension guys who claim the ball joints aren't loaded due to tying down.
Also going against that theory would be reports from guys who say they have replaced multiple control arms (were they indeed the same part, multiple times ??).


I'll see what other info I can dredge up about control arm problems on VE and VE derivatives.

[Chewy]

Yeah I got rid of the weird wiggle when cornering and hitting bumps. I could rock the wheel back and forth/side to side before the new one and now there's NO slop so I KNOW it was bad and needed replaced. It just didn't fix my issue.

Onto seeing if it's a bad Pedders bushing or bearing now. There's got to be a reason for the creaking and the thudding that's being made up there.

[Kermit]

I am wondering when you guys started to see/feel your ball joint going bad? I have always heard a slight pop when ever I left my driveway turning left but only in the mornings or after the car has sat for a while. I had that from day one.

Could the issue with the cars down under not having this problem have anything to do with them driving on the other side of the road? Just shooting in the dark now. :wacko:

[djchubbs]

mine took about a month

[grandmacpubah]

I am wondering when you guys started to see/feel your ball joint going bad? I have always heard a slight pop when ever I left my driveway turning left but only in the mornings or after the car has sat for a while. I had that from day one.

Could the issue with the cars down under not having this problem have anything to do with them driving on the other side of the road? Just shooting in the dark now. :wacko:

that's probably just your abs self testing...mine does that too, and my two previous cars did the same thing.

[Panzer Leader]

After consulting with my orthopedic surgeon, I will now grease my G8 with BEN GAY. Thus reducing the creaks and pops which reminds me of my knees.

[Panzer Leader]

I'm not saying I wouldn't be pissed, because I would be...I had terrible suspension issues on my g35...compression rods replaced twice before 40K, brakes replaced 3 times (rotors and pads) but you are coming across a little over-reactionary lol...

It'll work out, they'll find the problem and hopefully you don't have any more issues with it.

I don't think we can blame GM per say, because from what I understand these are the same parts used on the Aussie cars. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not beating up on you, I feel bad for you, I've been there. Sometimes it helps to take a step back, deep breath, and look at the big picture. It's just a car. Good Luck.

I hope you are right. I believe that there is a demand and some company or Forum Member will figure it out. Still interested in seeing what Paul finds out on the OZ relations down under. But to say not to blame GM I think is stretching it. There is a problem, potentially a serious failure problem. One that could have dire consequences. No excuse for a ball joint failure at 10k miles. If I wanted crap like that I would have bought a Dodge.

[grandmacpubah]

I hope you are right. I believe that there is a demand and some company or Forum Member will figure it out. Still interested in seeing what Paul finds out on the OZ relations down under. But to say not to blame GM I think is stretching it. There is a problem, potentially a serious failure problem. One that could have dire consequences. No excuse for a ball joint failure at 10k miles. If I wanted crap like that I would have bought a Dodge.

when I said you can't blame gm I was referencing the fact that it is a holden design and part. same ones used in aussie. Pedders is working on a replacement ball joint for our cars and said it would be 6-8 weeks. (that was like 2 weeks ago I think.)

[Panzer Leader]

when I said you can't blame gm I was referencing the fact that it is a holden design and part. same ones used in aussie. Pedders is working on a replacement ball joint for our cars and said it would be 6-8 weeks. (that was like 2 weeks ago I think.)

Ain't frustration a real bitch. Really don't want to point fingers at anyone, waste of time, rather fix the problem. Yea, heard the same thing about Pedders. Hope it comes soon. :deadhorse:

[TouchOfGray]

+1
Started having issues with the sound a couple of weeks ago (21,000 mi), and went to Modern Muscle to check the Pedders install etc. They isolated it to the ball joint on the drivers front lower control arm. Went to the dealer and it took some persuading, but they did order the part under warranty. Now the pass side is starting to make noise...

If Pedders made the joints, I would probably go with them. What a PITA!

[BMWHunter]

+1
Started having issues with the sound a couple of weeks ago (21,000 mi), and went to Modern Muscle to check the Pedders install etc. They isolated it to the ball joint on the drivers front lower control arm. Went to the dealer and it took some persuading, but they did order the part under warranty. Now the pass side is starting to make noise...

Did the dealer ask about the Pedders suspension? How did they so quickly work on the car with your Pedders stuff right in front of them?

I took mine to the dealer and two older techs checked it out and said that the factory ball joints were good. I told them that my Pedders installer (Wretched Motorsports) told me that the ball joint was bad. Both techs then said that GM would require them to return everything to stock in order for them to diagnose the problem. They heard the noise, but said that the factory stuff was good. And I was under the car looking at everything with them. They told me to go back to the installer and have them check out the aftermarket stuff again.

Time to go back to Wretched and then to another dealer to see what they will do.

[Slizzo]

Just got a call today, looks like the parts are in! Too bad they didn't have any openings this week though. Had to schedule for Thursday of next week (ugh!)

So I get to drive around for another week before I get this stupid thing fixed...




Other than that, the car's been great for me. I love it to death, just embarrassing that it's making all this noise when driving around.

[Chewy]

The swap out literally takes 30 minutes MAX per side.

[Chooch]

So i guess the longest part is the actual wait for parts. I may be in luck as after today, I will be in good ole Disney Florida for 2 weeks so no matter to me. I miss the car already, the rental G6 while is nice, not the same, I need my V8 fix soon. Other then my dad letting me use his c5 Vette convertable when I am in Florida, I want my V8 back :(

[Panzer Leader]

As my Pontiac Dealer was also the authorized Pedders Dealer hopefully will not run into that problem. Just to clarify, First, we are talking 2 seperate parts correct. (Based on Pauls diagram) Second, at this point NO AFTERMAKET BALL JOINTS EXIST, Correct? Third, Pedders makes a bushing for which part? Fourth, this problem affects both the GT and V6? Just trying to clear the air.
Thanks.

[Kermit]

I know what the ABS system sounds like, my GP GTP did that all the time and I know the difference. :) Good guess but I KNOW it is not that.

[Chewy]

Copied and pasted from youtube site. (my video)

Ok all, Here's what I've got. I've got a complete Pedders strut package and several of their bushings installed. I found that I had a passenger side lower ball joint that was bad so I replaced it and got rid of a wicked shimmy at speed in the corners but the clunk still persists. What it sounds like to me is free play on top of the strut but it's SO hard to pin it down I really don't want to guess. Anyway... Here's a video of the sound as best as I could do. The camera is sitting on the seat and what sounds like normal tire noise is truly the clunk. The tires are pretty quiet actually. Sorry for the piss poor quality. I have yet to get a dedicated video camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp07TDKNRcU
jp07TDKNRcU

[Mike P]

Good videos, I hope you get your problem solved......



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[TouchOfGray]

Did the dealer ask about the Pedders suspension? How did they so quickly work on the car with your Pedders stuff right in front of them?

I took mine to the dealer and two older techs checked it out and said that the factory ball joints were good. I told them that my Pedders installer (Wretched Motorsports) told me that the ball joint was bad. Both techs then said that GM would require them to return everything to stock in order for them to diagnose the problem. They heard the noise, but said that the factory stuff was good. And I was under the car looking at everything with them. They told me to go back to the installer and have them check out the aftermarket stuff again.

Time to go back to Wretched and then to another dealer to see what they will do.

They did see the Pedders and their first response was that with all the aftermarket changes to the car they would not be able to honor any warranty issues. I pointed out that they would have to prove that the changes I made woud impact the part that failed (SEMA bill of rights I think). I also put up some resistance and reminded them that I am a long time customer on many vehicles etc. and that I would be happy to talk to the service manager if thet would help. I also told them that my first stop had been to the shop that installed the Pedders (Modern Muscle) and that we had nailed the problem down to the ball joint being dry. The service writer went away for a while and came back and said that they had ordered the part and it would be covered under warranty. As of now I am still waiting for the part to come in.

Since then another wrinkle has come up. After leaving the dealer I thought that if i drilled a small hole in the rubber boot around the ball joint and shot some grease in it might stop the noise unitl the part came in. I called the dealer and asked if they would have a problem with that. The service writer didn't think that would be too good and idea, as they wanted to return the part to GM and anything I did might cause a problem. A couple of days later I was talking with the guys at Modern Muscle about the dealer changing the control arm, and they told me that the bushing opposite the ball joint was changed as part of the Street II kit, and that I should have the dealer press out the Pedders bushing on the original arm and put it in the replacement arm. I havent crossed that bridge yet, but it sounds like it may be the end of the warranty replacement. Hopefully they will work with me on this one. Having the info in this thread about all the problems on cars that don't have any Pedders stuff should help. Guess I'll see how it goes...

[-Ray-]

They did see the Pedders and their first response was that with all the aftermarket changes to the car they would not be able to honor any warranty issues. I pointed out that they would have to prove that the changes I made woud impact the part that failed (SEMA bill of rights I think). I also put up some resistance and reminded them that I am a long time customer on many vehicles etc. and that I would be happy to talk to the service manager if thet would help. I also told them that my first stop had been to the shop that installed the Pedders (Modern Muscle) and that we had nailed the problem down to the ball joint being dry. The service writer went away for a while and came back and said that they had ordered the part and it would be covered under warranty. As of now I am still waiting for the part to come in.

Since then another wrinkle has come up. After leaving the dealer I thought that if i drilled a small hole in the rubber boot around the ball joint and shot some grease in it might stop the noise unitl the part came in. I called the dealer and asked if they would have a problem with that. The service writer didn't think that would be too good and idea, as they wanted to return the part to GM and anything I did might cause a problem. A couple of days later I was talking with the guys at Modern Muscle about the dealer changing the control arm, and they told me that the bushing opposite the ball joint was changed as part of the Street II kit, and that I should have the dealer press out the Pedders bushing on the original arm and put it in the replacement arm. I havent crossed that bridge yet, but it sounds like it may be the end of the warranty replacement. Hopefully they will work with me on this one. Having the info in this thread about all the problems on cars that don't have any Pedders stuff should help. Guess I'll see how it goes...

My Pedders dealer is my dealership in Greenwood, IN. A long drive for you, but you will have no problems getting any suspension warranty work done because of a Pedders suspension.
Google Reeve's Buick, Pontiac, GMC is you have a problem.

[Panzer Leader]

4GASEM yep I know what you are saying (hearing). Very similiar to mine, hope that the aftermarket parts are available soon.

[dandragonrage]

Called XRF up today to ask about ball joints and the guy said it would probably be a couple of years at the earliest... Hopefully Spicer or Moog pull through faster than that...

[Chooch]

Ok, for the part to replace the lower control arm ball joint, Dealer said a SPAC case has been opened. I am guessing it is to locate a part... as per the parts manager, none avaible in USA :(

[Chewy]

It's a complete unit (lower control arm AND ball joint) so we'll see if MOOG will make something. I wish! I'd have gone MOOG all day long.

We should get BMR to make us something...

Hmm..

Edit: Message sent to Sales at BMR.

[TouchOfGray]

My Pedders dealer is my dealership in Greenwood, IN. A long drive for you, but you will have no problems getting any suspension warranty work done because of a Pedders suspension.
Google Reeve's Buick, Pontiac, GMC is you have a problem.

Great info, wish my dealer was the Pedders guy too. As a first step maybe I can put my dealer in touch with Reeve's if it becomes an issue. Thanks.

[Panzer Leader]

For thse in the greater New Orleans Area, Brian-Harris Pontiac in Slidell is an authorized Pedders Dealer.

[-Ray-]

Jamie Smith is the service manager, and Erik Hess does the installs. A very meticulous mechanic. I can't say enough about these guys.

[Crazy Paul]

Just to clarify, First, we are talking 2 seperate parts correct. (Based on Pauls diagram).
No.
We are talking about the ball joint contained within one end of the front suspension lower control arm.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010102.jpg
Item 5 shown inside the green box here. There is another similar control arm on the other side of the car.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/G8frontarms1.jpg



Second, at this point NO AFTERMAKET BALL JOINTS EXIST, Correct?
Correct.
So the only current way to get a new ball joint is to replace the entire control arm.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010106.jpg



Third, Pedders makes a bushing for which part?
Probably this (the other end of the control arm). Replacing a bush doesnt get you a new ball joint.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010104.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010105.jpg



Fourth, this problem affects both the GT and V6? Just trying to clear the air.
Yes.

[TouchOfGray]

Jamie Smith is the service manager, and Erik Hess does the installs. A very meticulous mechanic. I can't say enough about these guys.

Danke

[Panzer Leader]

No.
We are talking about the ball joint contained within one end of the front suspension lower control arm.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010102.jpg
Item 5 shown inside the green box here. There is another similar control arm on the other side of the car.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/G8frontarms1.jpg



Correct.
So the only current way to get a new ball joint is to replace the entire control arm.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010106.jpg



Probably this (the other end of the control arm). Replacing a bush doesnt get you a new ball joint.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010104.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/VE%20under/R1010105.jpg



Yes.

Thanks Paul. When I looked at the drawing, there was a number 5 and I believe a number 7 Both Highlighted. Appeared to be 2 different arms each with a ball joint. And I really hate to ask the question, knowing that one needs to be replaced now, will the other need to be replaced in the (Near) future?:wacko:

[Crazy Paul]

Thanks Paul. When I looked at the drawing, there was a number 5 and I believe a number 7 Both Highlighted. Appeared to be 2 different arms each with a ball joint. And I really hate to ask the question, knowing that one needs to be replaced now, will the other need to be replaced in the (Near) future?:wacko:

No5 is the Front Suspension- rear straight control arm.
No7 is the Front suspension -front "dogleg" control arm.

So far (I think) all the reports are coming in (from USA only) regarding the No5 on both passengers and drivers side.

[Panzer Leader]

Thanks Paul. BTW I posted a new thread regarding the rear suspension. specifically, right rear. Like peeling back an onion. Thanks again, your post was great as usual. I still think its a great car.

[Ktlplxm]

Does there seem to be any correlation at all between vehicles with aftermarket suspension pieces vs those with completely stock suspensions and the noises? I have 20K miles on mine, have had Eibachs, Pedders ARB, and BMR trailing arms and SFC on for a while. No noise on mine, the only issue suspension wise is a squeek from the swaybars after days and days of rain and a sagging rear spring.

[GotMyG8V8]

Alright i just got both control arms replaced at the dealership, and i needed an alignment beforehand because i hit a pothole with both right side tires, and the nimrods didn't do the alignment good enough it seems. My steering wheel is not straight still and the car seems to be trailing to the right.

Otherwise, the front seems a little firmer, i didn't go over any real bumps yet but i played a little and it seems a little more solid. Now to have the car go straight when the wheel is straight.

Side note, could it be possible that the rear is throwing it off? I'm sure he only did a 2 wheel alignment even though on the previous visit i asked for a 4 wheel alignment, and they said to hold off for the parts to be replaced.

[Chewy]

I don't think they have a choice. I think they have to do 4 wheels.

Chris

[Slizzo]

Well, the Dealership fixed my car extremely fast today. I brought it in at 7:30, they didn't show any appointments for me (doh!) and they didn't have the loaner that was promised to me (double doh!).

Guy said that they'd try to get the car in today, and he arranged an Enterprise rental for me (a freaking massive Silverado 2500 HD Extended cab... Holy crap that's a big truck!).


Got a call from the dealer at like 10:30 this morning, letting me know my car was ready!





Pick it up tonight after work, and wow, what a difference! Steering felt tight as a drum, no rattles, creaks or groans from the suspension. Made me fall in love with the car all over again. I could tell my steering was getting a little looser over time, I'm just happy that the car never fell apart on me while driving as that now feels like it could have been a possibility.



I am going to make sure that when I get another G8 after this lease is up that I'll be bringing it up to Wretched to have them install the Pedders ball joints which were just announced.

[Chewy]

I got mine looked at and fixed it 50%... I have just ordered an UPPER radius rod/control arm and ball joint for mine. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the Pedders stiff parts beat on the cheap OEM ball joints.

[Panzer Leader]

I got mine looked at and fixed it 50%... I have just ordered an UPPER control arm and ball joint for mine. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the Pedders stiff parts beat on the cheap OEM ball joints.

That is what I have thought also. But I see too many threads from people w/o the Pedders having the same problem. No matter what I will get ALL the ball joints replaced with the new Pedders when available.

[Slizzo]

Yup, stock suspension and wheels/tires here, 21k on the car, started making noise at around 20.5k.

Been through one winter with the car.

[13 QTR]

Ya'll sum bishes....ya'll jinked me.

I read this and got concerned...even thou my steering is tight. I ran it up on a lift.........both boots are tore on the ball joints. I went to the dealer and they put in a order for 2. I showed them the black marks on the strut bushings....but they said 'let's wait till it gets worse'. I'm not too concerned about them...I might just buy the pedders and have them installed somewhere else. I don't want to raise a stink....they've always covered my warranties before. Hell...they can see the intake,headers...and they know about the tunes and the diff swap.....
I might get the bmr control arms when they come out.....

[-Ray-]

I got mine looked at and fixed it 50%... I have just ordered an UPPER radius rod/control arm and ball joint for mine. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the Pedders stiff parts beat on the cheap OEM ball joints.

I think my G8 was Pedderized before most. Wouldn't it have shown up on mine then?

[Chewy]

Wait for it... I have a funny feeling that you'll see it with time.

Chris

[Slizzo]

I think my G8 was Pedderized before most. Wouldn't it have shown up on mine then?

It's been hit or miss most of the time I think. If it hasn't presented itself yet, it may be a while before it does.


There is a high failure rate, but there are others that haven't had one inkling of trouble with control arms. Others (like 4gasem) get both uppers and lowers wearing out...

[Panzer Leader]

Well today did it. Hard turn of the steering wheel to the left. Sounded totally like shit. My wife who cannot stand talking about cars turn to me and said what the hell was that. Have appointment on Wednesday at the dealership. Same who installed the Pedders Street II. Guess I will go on the waiting list for new control arms.

[Chooch]

Well car passenger side lower arm was changed, alingment done, and it is back to normal, no noise at all, car tracks dead straight and the braking shimmy is gone now that the front end is corrected. Car has just over 17k miles. I asked the GM tech to verify and I mean really inspect the other ball joints and he said they were all solid and tight. Only took 10 days from car in shop to being done, including them airshipping the part from AUST.

[Panzer Leader]

Just wondering, has GM even looked into this problem from the standpoint of a new design.

[nonexistent]

Any updates on this? My dealer just diagnosed my cars problem as being upper and lower control arm. I don't recognize these part numbers they ordered from this sheet as the same ones Crazy Paul mentioned earlier. I just had the right side strut, control arm, ball joint combo replaced 3 weeks ago. Right side went bad 1 week after. They couldn't duplicate problem while they held the car, I took it back and as soon as I heard the sound again went straight to the dealer and they came out with the control arm solution. Current mileage at 14700 miles.

The PN are:
92244051 (arm)
92244047 (arm)
92198275 (rod 6.233)

The arms being on BACKORDER!

[GeorgeInNePa]

There are no upper control arms in the front suspension.

The upper part of the front suspension is a MacPherson strut. The lower parts are radius rods that run forward from the spindle and control arms that run rearward from the spindle.

http://wretchedmotorsports.com/images/Zeta-Front-Parts-800.png

[Crazy Paul]

The PN are:
92244051 (arm)
92244047 (arm)
92198275 (rod 6.233)



92244051 Control Arm Assy, Front Lower, VE 9R .....nil stk Holden till end Oct
92244047 Control Arm Assy, Front Lower, VE 9R .....nil stk Holden till end Oct
[This is all the info I can gather on these, no parts drawing avail to me]

92198275 is Steering Linkage, Outer Left Tie Rod End. (stk avail.)

[nonexistent]

92244051 Control Arm Assy, Front Lower, VE 9R .....nil stk Holden till end Oct
92244047 Control Arm Assy, Front Lower, VE 9R .....nil stk Holden till end Oct
[This is all the info I can gather on these, no parts drawing avail to me]

92198275 is Steering Linkage, Outer Left Tie Rod End. (stk avail.)

So I'm basically assed out til then? How come it's saying VE 9R and it's not using the same part numbers everyone else is getting? Is it more than just the lower control arm? I'm not much all informed about vehicle parts, so sorry for all the questions, but thanks in advanced for all the answers.

[Crazy Paul]

I have no idea how somebody arrived at those part numbers for what should be control arms. They aren't the same as what was on the car from factory.
Maybe ask whoever gave you the numbers.
Just because I can't buy those numbers till end of Oct does not necessarily mean GM N/A is in the same boat.
The VE 9R I couldn't get an explanation on.

[Snakey]

My dealership told me yesterday that no arms were available anywhere... Today I got a call this afternoon and was told they had one inbound and would be arriving Monday. Car is supposed to go in Monday evening for the replacement of both the upper and lower. Have a moaning noise while turning and general driving, and a rattle when hitting hard bumps.

[nonexistent]

I have no idea how somebody arrived at those part numbers for what should be control arms. They aren't the same as what was on the car from factory.
Maybe ask whoever gave you the numbers.
Just because I can't buy those numbers till end of Oct does not necessarily mean GM N/A is in the same boat.
The VE 9R I couldn't get an explanation on.

If they're not the same, would it still fit the G8?

I'm starting to get worried about the car because it makes a really loud groaning moaning sound when turning the wheel to the left and the squeaks and creaks when braking and hitting bumps. Annoying but more so starting to be afraid to drive it, don't want to end up broke down and have worse damage.

[Crazy Paul]

OK I suspected this might be what was going on based on the new part numbers and current availability.
I've just confirmed it.
The new part numbers you have are off 2010 model year VE.
I do not know what changes were made such that new part numbers were issued.
Hopefully revised balljoints.


2010 Front Suspension Lower Control Arms.

Front "dogleg" Lower Control Arm #7 LH = 92244047
Front "dogleg" Lower Control Arm #7 RH = 92244046

Rear "straight" Lower Control Arm #5 LH = 92244051
Rear "straight" Lower Control Arm #5 RH = 92244050

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/R1010023_01.jpg

[Panzer Leader]

OK I suspected this might be what was going on based on the new part numbers and current availability.
I've just confirmed it.
The new part numbers you have are off 2010 model year VE.
I do not know what changes were made such that new part numbers were issued.
Hopefully revised balljoints.


2010 Front Suspension Lower Control Arms.

Front "dogleg" Lower Control Arm #7 LH = 92244047
Front "dogleg" Lower Control Arm #7 RH = 92244046

Rear "straight" Lower Control Arm #5 LH = 92244051
Rear "straight" Lower Control Arm #5 RH = 92244050

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/R1010023_01.jpg

Are there ny other reason(s) GM would change part numbers if there were no modifications?:watch:

[Crazy Paul]

Are there ny other reason(s) GM would change part numbers if there were no modifications?:watch:

Yes.
eg:
Sometimes the same part can be made to the same design/pattern, look identical, but be made by a new manufacturer = new GM part No.

I have no idea what differences there are between the 2010 and 2008 lower control arms and no way of finding out.

[bigtreepu]

damn I go away for a bit and come back to get the shit scared out of me w/ this issue and the hydro-lock.
Subscribed.

~Matt

[Panzer Leader]

Yes.
eg:
Sometimes the same part can be made to the same design/pattern, look identical, but be made by a new manufacturer = new GM part No.

I have no idea what differences there are between the 2010 and 2008 lower control arms and no way of finding out.

So we are back at square one. Best hope remains with the Pedders ball joint in November.

[Crazy Paul]

So we are back at square one.

Obviously the dealership where nonexistant took his car must have some info. Something must have told them to use these new numbers.
Start asking questions at the dealerships.

[Panzer Leader]

Obviously the dealership where nonexistant took his car must have some info. Something must have told them to use these new numbers.
Start asking questions at the dealerships.

Plan to on Wednesday. Only other way is to do a comparison between the two actual parts and see if there is a difference. Would think that some aftermarket company would be interested to compare the two.

[dandragonrage]

You might not be able to see the difference. It might require running tests on several of each parts and comparing the average results.

It's worth a try, though.

[BMWHunter]

So we are back at square one. Best hope remains with the Pedders ball joint in November.

Right....like I said on the other board. Pedders is the only game in town for me. I wouldn't bank on GM correcting the "bad" design. They'll just be in replacement only mode.

[AlliG8r]

So we are back at square one. Best hope remains with the Pedders ball joint in November.

"They are due into AU around November this year."

Into AU from which third world country ?
+ the usual Pedders slow boat ??

[-Ray-]

Yes.
eg:
Sometimes the same part can be made to the same design/pattern, look identical, but be made by a new manufacturer = new GM part No.

I have no idea what differences there are between the 2010 and 2008 lower control arms and no way of finding out.

Exactly. Manufacturer's change vendors frequently.

[vert]

Mine has to go back in since now the drivers side is acting up. Should an alignment be performed after the control has been replaced? I know the dealer did not perform one when they replace the pass side. If so, I will hit the dealer up when my car goes back in for the drivers side.

[Tommy G]

Add another one to the list. Going in tomorrow for the official diagnosis. It had been clunking on both front wheels, but now its groaning/creaking bad on the left front. Hopefully wont take too long for the parts.

[2ltrgsr]

i have 29000 miles and don't have this problem with my pedders spring/shock combo...but im scared now:(

[Panzer Leader]

Exactly. Manufacturer's change vendors frequently.

I wonder if it is based on better product or better pricing?

[Chewy]

Add another one to the list. Going in tomorrow for the official diagnosis. It had been clunking on both front wheels, but now its groaning/creaking bad on the left front. Hopefully wont take too long for the parts.

That's what happens when you park next to mine... :hang:

[-Ray-]

I wonder if it is based on better product or better pricing?

Quality control should eliminate better product. It's either made to specs or it's not. Delivery is another a reason to change vendors.

[Tommy G]

That's what happens when you park next to mine... :hang:

Its like H1N1 virus for the Pontiac G8:wacko:

[Chewy]

I think I'd rather have the flu! lol At least there's a FIX for it! lol

Chris

[Panzer Leader]

Quality control should eliminate better product. It's either made to specs or it's not. Delivery is another a reason to change vendors.

OK everyone bow your heads and hope it is because of a better product.

[bigtreepu]

any new news?

[Snakey]

Just got back from having mine replaced. Noise is gone for now! I guess there's a service bulletin out now to replace both sides but they said it was just the boot that the service bulletin calls for. Glad they replaced the whole control arm on mine and already have the driver's side on order!

[Panzer Leader]

Just got back from having mine replaced. Noise is gone for now! I guess there's a service bulletin out now to replace both sides but they said it was just the boot that the service bulletin calls for. Glad they replaced the whole control arm on mine and already have the driver's side on order!

Did they install the boots as well?

[NYG8GT]

Well, my car just went in today. Dropped it off last night, got a call that the ball joint on the pass side is def screwed up, and the district manager has to get involved to get the parts. Had I know this car was going to be such a pain in the ass with parts availability, I would have passed and just got a WS6 or SS. I'm wondering if I should just trade this thing in next summer. I really, really love the car for its practicality to fun ratio, thats something an F body just cant match. But with the power/drivetrain problems, suspension problems, and the parts availability issue, it just seems to lose some of its attractiveness :( Its a shame, because this is a hell of a package.

[Chewy]

Well, my car just went in today. Dropped it off last night, got a call that the ball joint on the pass side is def screwed up, and the district manager has to get involved to get the parts. Had I know this car was going to be such a pain in the ass with parts availability, I would have passed and just got a WS6 or SS. I'm wondering if I should just trade this thing in next summer. I really, really love the car for its practicality to fun ratio, thats something an F body just cant match. But with the power/drivetrain problems, suspension problems, and the parts availability issue, it just seems to lose some of its attractiveness :( Its a shame, because this is a hell of a package.

THANK YOU!!! This is where I am... Well, minus the Camaro/FB thoughts...

[norm8332]

Well, my car just went in today. Dropped it off last night, got a call that the ball joint on the pass side is def screwed up, and the district manager has to get involved to get the parts. Had I know this car was going to be such a pain in the ass with parts availability, I would have passed and just got a WS6 or SS. I'm wondering if I should just trade this thing in next summer. I really, really love the car for its practicality to fun ratio, thats something an F body just cant match. But with the power/drivetrain problems, suspension problems, and the parts availability issue, it just seems to lose some of its attractiveness :( Its a shame, because this is a hell of a package.


I second this mine are bad too. Plus no fuel pump...fun

[majesticix]

Got my ball joint on order as well (went in yesterday). Fun fun!

[nonexistent]

Since now it's getting warmer again, and it's about the same time it happened to me last year. Anyone else having problems with their new-ER control arms?

[jnak]

Mine have been good so far. Been close to a year on the driver's and probably 5-6 months on the passenger side.

[Snakey]

Its been a cool past couple of days and I've notice mine are REALLY bad AGAIN today. Going to call the dealership on Monday and see what they are going to do. I've only had the bottoms replaced and if I recall correctly all 4 are supposed to be replaced?

I love everything about this car, but if we have to replace these every year, this is going to get old. COME ON PEDDERS or BMR and make us a quality replacement! :)

[vert]

Man, I feel for you. I would think that the CA's would be built up in the part bins and if they are bad you should not have much DT.
Its been a cool past couple of days and I've notice mine are REALLY bad AGAIN today. Going to call the dealership on Monday and see what they are going to do. I've only had the bottoms replaced and if I recall correctly all 4 are supposed to be replaced?

I love everything about this car, but if we have to replace these every year, this is going to get old. COME ON PEDDERS or BMR and make us a quality replacement! :)

[Snakey]

It's very frustrating to say the least. My worry is what happens when I pass the 36K mark and they go bad again? If they make no improvements to the parts, replacing them will only cost more money in the end. Seems to me like they would invest the money in getting it made right and not having to worry about it. Unless of course they are just planning on getting people by until their warranty is up, then its onto us.

I'm also getting the passenger rear door looked at because the striker is making some noises over bumps as well. Sucks to have a car of this caliber and it sounds like a bunch of nuts and bolts in a tin can when you go over bumps!

All this being said, I still love this thing! :)

[ghodge]

I'm hoping that when the police vehicles start shipping, they'll have upgraded suspension parts. I seem to remember that they would be available in November.