Is this normal? Experts Please (Pics)

[blackbirdws6]

Does this look normal? Noticed this within the past few hundred miles. Dealer wants to see another car with similar mileage to see if its normal. Regardless, can any experts chime in and tell me if this is normal? Looks like there is some contact occurring.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w170/bmdeluca/0718091743.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w170/bmdeluca/0718091744a.jpg

[08G8V8]

Check out this video Chris made. At the very end of the video he shows the movement here and says it to be normal. Looks like this is what yours is doing. But I'm no expert, I just remember seeing the video!

http://forum.grrrr8.net/showpost.php?p=115764&postcount=1

[13 QTR]

Mine looks like that sometimes....I keep it wiped clean.

[-Ray-]

I have a Pedders Street II and mine doesn't look like that at all. Normal for a stock G8 I guess.

[blackbirdws6]

OK fair enough. I was going to clean it off but didn't want to do this before I found out if it was normal or not. Thanks for the info!

[Devilish34]

Now I have to go out into the garage and look lol

[beach]

NOT normal. Most stock all G8's are either like that or degrade to be like that, and it's all due to the front strut top bushings being squashed (or, as I say, trashed) largely right from the boat ride and then even more so after some driving. It contributes to a lot of alignment, looseness, and other issues up front, and is as much a problem on this car as it was on the GTO.

An OEM strut top bushing that has some weak spots + a car strapped down tightly on a bumpy boat ride + a design that naturally stresses the part a lot = what you have. Essentially, your strut top bushing is so squashed and now the strut is loose in the tower with a lot of extra up & down and twisting motion that it's grinding on the fender over turns and bumps and such.

Here's a typical example of a heavily worn bushing from a G8 with 1800 miles on it (right) vs. a new Pedders (OE undamaged would be the same height):

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p310/rocksandracing/DSC02356.jpg

My car at 3k miles had ones that were the same or worse, with a tilt, and if you stood and looked at how much the strut tops lifted, tilted, twisted, etc. if the wheels were turned with the hood up...not a confidence inspiring sight. I always wondered how a week after picking it up it suddenly seemed to fall out of alignment (it did) and my wheel was cocked, but then re-fixed by the dealer, and after seeing these I found out how and why pretty quickly. By design it is normal for them to pivot around, yes, but they should not be elevated off the fender or have so much extra slop and be chewing on the fender.

It's been a struggle for dealers to understand this because they have so little G8 experience and, compared to other new or used ones on their lot, there's little to no difference because they all have the problem in some form. Seems like the only way people have gotten them warrantied was demonstrating a valid front end issue in the way of noise, clunking, etc. that the dealer then traced to this area.

I had pretty bad squeaking/creaking from the strut tops when it was freezing or below right after I got my '09, didn't know what it was, then eventually found out and after a single "huh?" dealer response went ahead and had these pieces and others upgraded to Pedders. No more issues and the strut tops are still back down on the fenders and firmly planted with undamaged bushings & bearings. It's naturally a high wear part on a high performance suspension, so even with the best aftermarket parts it's going to see more wear than some other cars, but being trashed from day one after the boat ride and a little driving is a whole other story.

Search around for strut bushings/bearings and such and you'll see more.

[Panzer Leader]

Does this mean you have no gap at all between the bushing and the top of the fender well? Because i have a small gap on mine. And thats with the Pedders.

[beach]

Does this mean you have no gap at all between the bushing and the top of the fender well? Because i have a small gap on mine. And thats with the Pedders.

There is the small, even gap of a few millimeters but not anything like it was with the trashed stock bushings, and they don't flop around all over the place under turning, etc. anymore.

I should have clarified--they may not touch, but a tight, thin and even gap around them is how they should be.

When/if you see the scoring/scraping marks around them as on the first pics above, that's further proof of how much they're moving around, chewing at the fender.

[Chewy]

What Beach said! It needs new bushings and bearings. Don't even bother with stock. They'll just fail again!

Chris

Updated Pic

[roSSco]

What Beach said! It needs new bushings and bearings. Don't even bother with stock. They'll just fail again!

Chris

Updated Pic

Part# ?

[G8V8]

I put Pedders mounts on 2ok miles ago and they still look like new. nothing like the gap in the OP photo.

[69project]

Interesting. My GXP has the rubber dust build up and it only has 1500 miles. So these bushings are considered trashed? How hard are these to replace? Any special tools required?

[beach]

Interesting. My GXP has the rubber dust build up and it only has 1500 miles. So these bushings are considered trashed? How hard are these to replace? Any special tools required?

Well, because the stock bushings are naturally a bit weaker than they could be and the cars are strapped down very tightly on what can be a harsh boat ride, like the GTO's of the past, these cars come into port with the strut top bushings squashed and worn like the car has considerable heavy mileage, without it.

It's funny because a lot of people never really experience much to clue them into there actually even being an issue, but others have persistent alignment, looseness, or creaking-squeaking-rattling from the strut tops as the excessively move around. My car was always dead steady and clunk, rattle, etc. free but when it would get to 32 degrees or below, the front end sounded horrific--like old house wood flooring, magnified by 10, until it warmed up. That was the tops of the struts vs. the fenders. I drove it for almost 4k miles and other than that, also had it randomly "fall out of" alignment after a week of driving and further settling, and then when they were finally changed out with Pedders pieces (well, after I also saw how much the struts danced around and up/down), they were completely squashed and tilted and the bearings fell apart.

SO...there's a lot of these cars here now, and not everyone notices actual issues, but this is a problem from the start and if it isn't initially, it will in time. The struts need to come out, the bushings (and bearings, typically) can be replaced, and then all back assembled and with the struts now sitting properly, it re-aligned.

[sweetair]

Does anything besides the bushings need to be changed for the issue to be resolved? Meaning if I am going to take the strut out and swap out a bushing, will this resolve the issue. I am not interested in getting a "pedders package" at this time.

Thanks in advance. Looked at mine today and saw the slight black ring as well.

[beach]

Are just the bushings available from Pedders or is there a whole kit that neds to be bought? Does anything besides the bushings need to be changed for the issue to be resolved?

Thanks in advance. Looked at mine today and saw the slight black ring as well.

The bushings alone are available, yes, and bearings to go with are also and generally recommended.

(2) Pedders 5851 Heavy Duty Strut Mounts
(2) Pedders 5030 Strut Mount Bearings

Even without changing another thing, this will at least get the OE parts to perform as intended without the front struts flopping all over the place.

[G8GT594]

http://www.peddersusa.com/products/18/122

Check that out for more detail...

[locrzn#92]

Whats the price on the mounts and bearings from Pedders?

[G8GT594]

Whats the price on the mounts and bearings from Pedders?

https://secure.merlinsoftware.com.au/peddersusa/Default.aspx?ProdCode=5851
Heavy Duty Strut Mounts

Front Strut Mount, Requires 2 Packages. For use with GTO and G8

Retail $42.99EA




https://secure.merlinsoftware.com.au/peddersusa/Default.aspx?ProdCode=5030
Strut Mount Bearing $38.57 EA

[sweetair]

The bushings alone are available, yes, and bearings to go with are also and generally recommended.

(2) Pedders 5851 Heavy Duty Strut Mounts
(2) Pedders 5030 Strut Mount Bearings

Even without changing another thing, this will at least get the OE parts to perform as intended without the front struts flopping all over the place.Thanks for the 411. Looking into doing something.

[johnh]

What's it take to install just the bushings and bearings?

[SRG963]

What's it take to install just the bushings and bearings?

time blood sweat and tears lol



spring compressor and a lift?

[Chewy]

It's doable but keep in mind that it'll need aligned!

I don't think the springs have to be touched. The bearing goes in the bushing and the bushing sits on top of the strut assembly.

I had a Pedders dealer do mine.

Chris

[Mike P]

It's doable but keep in mind that it'll need aligned!

I don't think the springs have to be touched. The bearing goes in the bushing and the bushing sits on top of the strut assembly.

I had a Pedders dealer do mine.

Chris


Which Pedder's dealer did you go to (just curious)?

I think we have a couple here in Michigan.



...

[johnh]

Yeah I'd be interested in having a pedders dealer do it if it wasn't too much.

I have the lifetime alignment from Firestone...no worries there...

[sweetair]

Is this a warrantyable issue. If I go to my dealer and show them this strut tower bushing moving when I turn the wheels are they going to tell me it is normal?

Will a strut tower brace help at all? I noticed that Pedders is out of stock with them.

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

The dealer will replace the bushings under warranty, but as stated they will squash down again, and a strut brace won't cure the problem. Mine were fine until the dealer replaced the lower control arms, they probably squashed them down when they reinstalled the struts. I have a Pedders dealer near me so I'm gonna look into getting the bushings & bearing replaced.

[beach]

Is this a warrantyable issue. If I go to my dealer and show them this strut tower bushing moving when I turn the wheels are they going to tell me it is normal?

Will a strut tower brace help at all? I noticed that Pedders is out of stock with them.

The brace won't do anything for strut mount wear. That's a structural component for the front body, essentially, that will help keep the strut towers a bit more rigid but not effect what's in them to be better.

Ideally a dealer would replace them BUT it seems only if there's another issue that they trace back to bad mounts/bearings. Very, very few still know much about the G8 (or still the GTO for that matter) and because all their new ones on the lot aren't much different typically, etc. the "there's nothing wrong" is the usual response. It's not an easy thing to get done in that way, unless you just happen to have a good dealer and they have a verifiable problem traced back to these parts--the struts seeming to move and the mounts being high/tilted doesn't typically count.

As for these parts in general, the Pedders ones are more durable thanks to some careful extra thickness/firmness in key spots, BUT it's just the nature of this car's front suspension design that any kind are going to wear a bit, naturally. Consider it a longer term, but not uncommon maintenance item depending on how the car is used, the miles, etc. A lot of those with the Pedders parts have gone many, many miles without sign of any issue--more than can be said for new cars with the original parts in there--but they aren't the best eternity, like the rest of the suspension. The wear/stress is a side effect of how the struts are designed to mount, the angled top and the kinds of forces the bushing sees, etc.

They shouldn't be worn out from the first days on the lot like they are, but it's a high performance car and platform these are just one of those pieces that should be checked over the longer term and replaced as needed. Thankfully, as many have proven, fresh replacements like the Pedders parts definitely can stand up to quite a life and use. Thank that exotic boat ride for this "special" surprise we get on these cars, and parts that could just be a little better.

Oh, if only I had taken a video of how badly mine moved around while doing an example show off, turning the wheel back & forth in a gravel driveway on the Pedders inspection day. I was scared to hit bumps and lumps on the way home and back after that;)

[locrzn#92]

Thanks, me too and mine are definetly smushed down. They were like that when we put the eibachs on. Now they are worse. I'll get them on order as soon as possible.

[sweetair]

The brace won't do anything for strut mount wear. That's a structural component for the front body, essentially, that will help keep the strut towers a bit more rigid but not effect what's in them to be better.

Ideally a dealer would replace them BUT it seems only if there's another issue that they trace back to bad mounts/bearings. Very, very few still know much about the G8 (or still the GTO for that matter) and because all their new ones on the lot aren't much different typically, etc. the "there's nothing wrong" is the usual response. It's not an easy thing to get done in that way, unless you just happen to have a good dealer and they have a verifiable problem traced back to these parts--the struts seeming to move and the mounts being high/tilted doesn't typically count.

As for these parts in general, the Pedders ones are more durable thanks to some careful extra thickness/firmness in key spots, BUT it's just the nature of this car's front suspension design that any kind are going to wear a bit, naturally. Consider it a longer term, but not uncommon maintenance item depending on how the car is used, the miles, etc. A lot of those with the Pedders parts have gone many, many miles without sign of any issue--more than can be said for new cars with the original parts in there--but they aren't the best eternity, like the rest of the suspension. The wear/stress is a side effect of how the struts are designed to mount, the angled top and the kinds of forces the bushing sees, etc.

They shouldn't be worn out from the first days on the lot like they are, but it's a high performance car and platform these are just one of those pieces that should be checked over the longer term and replaced as needed. Thankfully, as many have proven, fresh replacements like the Pedders parts definitely can stand up to quite a life and use. Thank that exotic boat ride for this "special" surprise we get on these cars, and parts that could just be a little better.

Oh, if only I had taken a video of how badly mine moved around while doing an example show off, turning the wheel back & forth in a gravel driveway on the Pedders inspection day. I was scared to hit bumps and lumps on the way home and back after that;)This only a small reason as to why this sire is great. Thank you for the response and info. I have a pretty good relationship with the service manager and the shop foreman at my dealer, I'll see what I can get done.

[GTPprix]

Yeah I'd be interested in having a pedders dealer do it if it wasn't too much.

I have the lifetime alignment from Firestone...no worries there...

Drop me a line, I'm a Pedders dealer I can get you setup :)

[Chewy]

Drop me a line, I'm a Pedders dealer I can get you setup :)

Just learned something new today... :)

[GT-610]

I am having this issue and i thinks its why i hear a loose,clunking noise on bumps that cause the car to go down quickly at low speeds.the boot being loose gives it room to clunk around!