Additional Cubes

[Defeater]

While not a traditional "power adder", there are a couple options available for increased displacement, which I don't believe I've seen anyone run on a G8 as of right now. (If you have - on a G8, GTO, Corvette, or really anything - or plan on it, feel free to chime in!)

This winter I hope to swap in a 428 stroker kit into the G8 (punch the block from 3.988" to 4.125", stroke increases from 3.622" to 4.000" for 427.6 cubic inches/7.01 liters), which will, in terms of displacement, mimic the LS7. A cam and heads will naturally also be fitted. I'm somewhat concerned about bore spacing at the 427 level; has anyone heard of any problems related to bore spacing on a bored/stroked aluminum block LS or even the LS7 itself? Cracked block is what I'm most worried about.

Also, what can I do (or what can I get) to increase reliability at vastly increased levels of power (500+ RWHP) in the transmission and drivetrain? I don't want to roll this beast out into the street just to have the transmission grenade.

If anyone with experience in increasing their cube count could speak up, it'd be great - this is the most involved project I've ever done on a car I've owned (though I am not actually planning on installing it; best left to pros I feel).

[GRRRR8]

I would make it a 402 or 408 and with good heads and cam you will be on your way to over 500 and have the strength and durabilty that you are looking for and it will be stealth since your #s will match. :)

[69project]

With more LS engines you can't bore them too much. Most folks get their extra cubes from putting in a stroker crank. I see you want to over bore by over .010. That may be too much unless you do a re-sleeve which is expensive and not worth it in my mind. Just go find a LS7 short block if you want a 427. They are out there. I know Scoggin Dickey Chevy sells one that all things considered is a good buy. Stick your LS3/L92 heads on there and there you go.

If you want reliability of components then go with forged internals. That is your best bet for durability, especially if you want to do FI later. If you are really serious about the power ditch the aluminum block and go with a LSX block, which the stock bore/stroke comes out to 6.0 L. You can safely over bore that .030 over and since the block is cast iron really up the power levels. I believe GM rates it to 2000 hp. Probably far more than you need but insurance is always good. You can always go the cheap route and get a 6.0L iron block out of truck and stroke it as well. Yes, iron is heavier but you can really do a lot to them before you break them.

If you stick with the stock block you need to watch the bore to stroke ratios otherwise you might run into durability issues. GM High Performance Magazine I believe did a good write up about that issue. Can't remember which one it was but it was in the past year or so.

I would send inquires to someone like Mast Motor Sports or Katech to see what they recommend. They seem to build some pretty stout stroker motors.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

While not a traditional "power adder", there are a couple options available for increased displacement, which I don't believe I've seen anyone run on a G8 as of right now. (If you have - on a G8, GTO, Corvette, or really anything - or plan on it, feel free to chime in!)

This winter I hope to swap in a 428 stroker kit into the G8 (punch the block from 3.988" to 4.125", stroke increases from 3.622" to 4.000" for 427.6 cubic inches/7.01 liters), which will, in terms of displacement, mimic the LS7. A cam and heads will naturally also be fitted. I'm somewhat concerned about bore spacing at the 427 level; has anyone heard of any problems related to bore spacing on a bored/stroked aluminum block LS or even the LS7 itself? Cracked block is what I'm most worried about.

Also, what can I do (or what can I get) to increase reliability at vastly increased levels of power (500+ RWHP) in the transmission and drivetrain? I don't want to roll this beast out into the street just to have the transmission grenade.

If anyone with experience in increasing their cube count could speak up, it'd be great - this is the most involved project I've ever done on a car I've owned (though I am not actually planning on installing it; best left to pros I feel).

From some things I'm starting to hear, the tranny is definitely going to be the weak spot in the equation. I've heard enough that it will now be pretty doubtful that I will do the maggie.

[grandmacpubah]

I'm actually very interested in this as well. This would be a next march project, but increasing cubes appeals to me more than FI. I'll have to look and see what they are getting for LS7 blocks.

[Slizzo]

While not a traditional "power adder", there are a couple options available for increased displacement, which I don't believe I've seen anyone run on a G8 as of right now. (If you have - on a G8, GTO, Corvette, or really anything - or plan on it, feel free to chime in!)

This winter I hope to swap in a 428 stroker kit into the G8 (punch the block from 3.988" to 4.125", stroke increases from 3.622" to 4.000" for 427.6 cubic inches/7.01 liters), which will, in terms of displacement, mimic the LS7. A cam and heads will naturally also be fitted. I'm somewhat concerned about bore spacing at the 427 level; has anyone heard of any problems related to bore spacing on a bored/stroked aluminum block LS or even the LS7 itself? Cracked block is what I'm most worried about.

Also, what can I do (or what can I get) to increase reliability at vastly increased levels of power (500+ RWHP) in the transmission and drivetrain? I don't want to roll this beast out into the street just to have the transmission grenade.

If anyone with experience in increasing their cube count could speak up, it'd be great - this is the most involved project I've ever done on a car I've owned (though I am not actually planning on installing it; best left to pros I feel).

ktl on here has a 427 in his GT... :nah:

[Ktlplxm]

Did it. Love it. More power than most, with more economy than most. I wouldn't use a LS7 block though. Over all it is weaker than the LS3 blocks. You will not be able to take your block to that desired overbore and get much real street life out it. Not to mention, the additional .060 bore doesn't net a lot of power. Ls7's make their power because of the heads, not the additional bore. If you want to spin the engine hard, stay around 416-417 inches (to keep the keyboard builders happy) lol. They'll tell you the 4.100 stroke in a LS3 block won't last (of course that is an opinion re-told by countless guys who never have nor ever will build an engine for their cars anyway). Anyone who has ever ridden in mine will be able to tell you it is as easy and pleasant to drive as a stocker, till you press the pedal. Had a GXP owner who doubted the car take it for a spin the other day. He swore that because of the smooth idle and no sound that it was gonna be disappointing; he came back with a smile you wouldn't believe. Huge numbers are easily obtainable, whereas I decided to stick with a tiny cam so I wouldn't use a converter.

[Defeater]

Very interesting. I want to keep my stock aluminum block rather than switch out for an iron one (in the hopes of being able to make a totally ridiculous claim in the future like "most powerful all-motor stock block L76 in the universe"). I only entertained the idea of a 428 because I found a kit that was damn near identically priced to a 402 kit I also researched. However with the 402, the block only needs to be punched to 4.000" rather than 4.125" - retaining a huge amount of the stock bore spacing (0.012" over rather than 0.137" over). The power levels would be slightly lower, but after a certain point it will probably be negligible, or at least compensated by a proper cam.

In the end, I hope to pair this stroker (probably going to be the 402ci after all) with ported L92 heads, mildly aggressive L92 (Livernois Stage 2-ish) cam, FAST LSXR 102mm intake/TB, a full exhaust rework to 2.5" throughout with the mufflers re-added and electric cutouts (don't know what type headers to use at the moment). I've guesstimated this will place me solidly into the mid/high 500s if not 600s in terms of crank horsepower.

I'm having trouble deciding what type of cam profile I will need for a larger displacement; same goes with headers.

Ktlplxm, on which engine is your 427 based?

[GRRRR8]

You wont need the 102mm intake/TB unless you will have a power adder. FAST92 will be plenty and you could use a ported stock intake and it would almost do it. 1 7/8 headers will work fine. I am building a similiar combo for mine or next year using a G8 block. I will be using nitrous to get near 700rwhp.

[p71]

I will probably end up around 408 with my engine...

I am already right around 500 fwhp, and am not looking for any more HP really... more for some bottom end.

[Defeater]

You wont need the 102mm intake/TB unless you will have a power adder. FAST92 will be plenty and you could use a ported stock intake and it would almost do it. 1 7/8 headers will work fine. I am building a similiar combo for mine or next year using a G8 block. I will be using nitrous to get near 700rwhp.

I have heard that the 102mm LSXR is really more useful for increased displacement; I know the stock L76 intake (actually an LS3 intake) flows well enough on its own. I believe what you say, however; the less I have to bolt on, particularly in the case of the $1500 LSXR intake/TB combo, the cheaper, the better.

[bwooten492]

Very interesting. I want to keep my stock aluminum block rather than switch out for an iron one (in the hopes of being able to make a totally ridiculous claim in the future like "most powerful all-motor stock block L76 in the universe"). I only entertained the idea of a 428 because I found a kit that was damn near identically priced to a 402 kit I also researched. However with the 402, the block only needs to be punched to 4.000" rather than 4.125" - retaining a huge amount of the stock bore spacing (0.012" over rather than 0.137" over). The power levels would be slightly lower, but after a certain point it will probably be negligible, or at least compensated by a proper cam.

In the end, I hope to pair this stroker (probably going to be the 402ci after all) with ported L92 heads, mildly aggressive L92 (Livernois Stage 2-ish) cam, FAST LSXR 102mm intake/TB, a full exhaust rework to 2.5" throughout with the mufflers re-added and electric cutouts (don't know what type headers to use at the moment). I've guesstimated this will place me solidly into the mid/high 500s if not 600s in terms of crank horsepower.

I'm having trouble deciding what type of cam profile I will need for a larger displacement; same goes with headers.

Ktlplxm, on which engine is your 427 based?

I think a 402 is a wise choice for this motor. I have not seen many huge cube LS blocks last very long save for the LSX iron block. Texas Speed also sells a 414 or 416 long block I believe for us. Just another idea.

[GRRRR8]

For a 427+ cu in motor with a large cam (250+duration .630+lift) and 11.1 or more compression and a killer set of heads it is a possibilty. You wont flow near that in a DD or street car. The big thing is buddy, what do you want from your car? A 402 with ported L92s, good valves,springs and 5 angle valve job with 11.1 compression is going to rock your world without breaking the bank. Cam selection will be important. Big power doesnt = smooth idle. You cant hide power. If you pick a cam that 232/240 and under .625 you will be a 500 rwhp and have a fun dependable car. You will need a 28-3200 stall. 42lb injectors and a boost a pump will do the trick.

[Defeater]

Sounds solid. What I want, in the end, is a car that will haul major ass without reliance on forced induction, tons of power on tap but mild when not actively being coerced. I don't want or need silly-diculous high numbers, either from the dyno or the strip (if I wanted to, say, run 10s and not give a rat's-ass about streeting the car, I could do it with a Fox-body Mustang way cheaper, for example).

[Mike P]

From some things I'm starting to hear, the tranny is definitely going to be the weak spot in the equation. I've heard enough that it will now be pretty doubtful that I will do the maggie.


Ditto for me too. I believe it was my drive shaft that got fried.
Part number 92213683 they replaced it but I paid. Oh well.

I guess I'll have to port the heads, and do all the other low hanging fruit (ported TB & Intake), & UD pulley.....


...

[GRRRR8]

Wheel hop got you Mike. BMR lower arms should be next on your list. Then diff and frame bushings.

[Mike P]

Wheel hop got you Mike. BMR lower arms should be next on your list. Then diff and frame bushings.


BMR lower arms are the same as the BMR trailing arms, correct? And by getting the Street 1 package, that should take care of the diff & frame bushings, correct?

This is what Mikey is doing for Pedder's parts to prevent wheel hop....

• G8 Street 1 Kit = $339.99
• Pedder’s Trailing Arm Bushing EP 7265 = $96
• Pedder’s Trailing Arm Bushing EP 7266 = $96
• Pedder’s 5030 Strut Mount Bearings = $77
• Pedder’s 5851 Strut Mount Bushings = $86
• Possibly get BMR Trailing Arms = $139.95 for a pair


That should do the trick, ya think?


...

[Defeater]

Yeah, that's the other thing I was worried about having such a large amount of power, god damn wheel hop.

Obviously this build includes eventual suspension and drivetrain/transmission upgrades as well, but they haven't been as seriously researched at this point...

[GRRRR8]

You wont need EP7265. BMR has their own bushings in the arms. That will do the trick Mikey! From cams to DRs to rear suspension. You should feel like you have gone to GRRRR8 college. :headbang:

[Mike P]

You wont need EP7265. BMR has their own bushings in the arms. That will do the trick Mikey! From cams to DRs to rear suspension. You should feel like you have gone to GRRRR8 college. :headbang:


It is getting as expensive as University costs! :D

Can I apply for a modding grant or modding scholarships? :D

Thanks again!


...

[edmanet]

While not a traditional "power adder", there are a couple options available.......

Also, what can I do (or what can I get) to increase reliability at vastly increased levels of power (500+ RWHP) in the transmission and drivetrain? I don't want to roll this beast out into the street just to have the transmission grenade.

If anyone with experience in increasing their cube count could speak up, it'd be great - this is the most involved project I've ever done on a car I've owned (though I am not actually planning on installing it; best left to pros I feel).

By the fall Century Transmission will have a rebuild kit for our tranny that will handle 650HP. And I believe there is another shop that already has one.

[Ktlplxm]

I think the FAST parts will be a waste of money on the car... once it becomes a readily available I'll order one in bolt it on and prove my claim. If I'm wrong so be it. For what you say you want I wouldn't over bore your engine. Just build between a 402-416 out of an LS3 block, it will handle the amount of abuse you plan on giving it, plus some. I would put the idea of "fastest stock block, or strongest stock block" out of your head, it just limits you. Given enough conditions, anyone can say that; "i have the fastest stock block car without aftermarket studs, or with factory girdles". Furthermore, your factory block will not go that big on bore, at least not and live.

[Defeater]

I think the FAST parts will be a waste of money on the car... once it becomes a readily available I'll order one in bolt it on and prove my claim. If I'm wrong so be it. For what you say you want I wouldn't over bore your engine. Just build between a 402-416 out of an LS3 block, it will handle the amount of abuse you plan on giving it, plus some. I would put the idea of "fastest stock block, or strongest stock block" out of your head, it just limits you. Given enough conditions, anyone can say that; "i have the fastest stock block car without aftermarket studs, or with factory girdles". Furthermore, your factory block will not go that big on bore, at least not and live.

The LS3 block is the same as the L76 with the notable exception of a different bore. The stroke is the same (3.622").

To stuff an LS2 stroker in - as there are no kits to accomodate the L76's 3.988" bore - the block must be bored and honed to 4.000".

I definitely realize the futility of making a goal of just being able to make a claim (which can easily be trumped). All I actually want is a ton of all motor power.

['02 ws6]

I think the FAST parts will be a waste of money on the car... once it becomes a readily available I'll order one in bolt it on and prove my claim.

Over the highend ported LS7 intake, the FAST 102mm unported with NW 102 TB did 15hp/21tq peak over the ported LS7 and almost + 25hp/25tq throughout the entire curve. I'd say they're worth it on big cube motors. I definitely think you should give one a whirl! I'd be interested to see what it would gain over a factory unported intake, or even a ported 102mm compared to factory and ported stock intakes.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-external-engine/1145651-speed-inc-fast-lsx-r-nw-102mm-tb-dyno-test.html

Even Tony (Nine Ball) approves of them. He saw almost the exact same gains, on a different dyno.

http://www.planetlsx.com/news/Dyno_Test__LSX-R_102mm_F_A_S_T__Intake_Manifold/88

[GeorgeInNePa]

I have heard that the 102mm LSXR is really more useful for increased displacement; I know the stock L76 intake (actually an LS3 intake) flows well enough on its own. I believe what you say, however; the less I have to bolt on, particularly in the case of the $1500 LSXR intake/TB combo, the cheaper, the better.


http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/1137500-fast-102mm-intake-real-results-no-bs.html

[Defeater]

Hmm. I guess more benefit is to be had by porting the stock intake; I don't believe the LS7 will fit over L92-based heads.

['02 ws6]

Sucks that they used a 90mm TB though, so hard to make a fair judgement. Plus it's hard to assume that the 5+ other shops that have seen the 10-15hp/15-20tq gain are full of shit, and this one negative one is the real business. Also, why are they still messing around with composites with a big ass 454 LSX, I'd be going sheetmetal already, but that's just me.

[2ltrgsr]

so a ls3 402ci block...or is there a storker kit..klx

[-Ray-]

The LS3 is a 6.2 liter engine. There was also a LS3 designation in the 70's that was a 402 CID.

[Ktlplxm]

Sucks that they used a 90mm TB though, so hard to make a fair judgement. Plus it's hard to assume that the 5+ other shops that have seen the 10-15hp/15-20tq gain are full of shit, and this one negative one is the real business. Also, why are they still messing around with composites with a big ass 454 LSX, I'd be going sheetmetal already, but that's just me.

When I see shops that aren't selling the intakes, then I believe the numbers, and never before. Early on I would follow the pack on things like these, but no longer. FAST is one of the very companies that made me dubious about aftermarket claims. Even on their write up about these intake they discuss how it is a RHS prepped engine, but then also claim that the increases are the same on stock engines; I don't buy it. I am a FAST dealer, so why would I talk negatively about them if I didn't have something to back it up? I honestly believe alot of the people making claims about the great numbers, are doing so because they are profitting by them... hell even Lesnar said he'd drink Budweiser vs Coors after being reminded with money...
Plus, they are usually testing these on 454+ inch, LS7 headed engines; not the smaller lesser flowing cousins we're dealing with. Couple that with the fact that they take the worst possible run they can find and compare it to a uber-perfect pull they they usually cannot duplicate in 20 tries, often on an engine dyno. Hell drop shop temp 15degrees and you can replicate that.

[Ktlplxm]

The LS3 block is the same as the L76 with the notable exception of a different bore. The stroke is the same (3.622").

To stuff an LS2 stroker in - as there are no kits to accomodate the L76's 3.988" bore - the block must be bored and honed to 4.000".

I definitely realize the futility of making a goal of just being able to make a claim (which can easily be trumped). All I actually want is a ton of all motor power.

Oh the block can be honed to that, I was remarking to an earlier post about taking it to 4.125"

[Steve]

The LS3 block is the same as the L76 with the notable exception of a different bore. The stroke is the same (3.622").

L76 Cast# 12568952
LS3 Cast# 12584727
L92 Cast# 12584727
LS2 Cast# 12568952

Thus

L76 == LS2
LS3 == L92
L76 != LS3




To stuff an LS2 stroker in - as there are no kits to accommodate the L76's 3.988" bore - the block must be bored and honed to 4.000".

Unless you just order some custom pistons in 3.988" which aren't that much more than 4's

[GeorgeInNePa]

L76 Cast# 12568952
LS3 Cast# 12584727
L92 Cast# 12584727
LS2 Cast# 12568952

Thus

L76 == LS2
LS3 == L92
L76 != LS3



Unless you just order some custom pistons in 3.988" which aren't that much more than 4's

"They" say that opening up the bore helps un-shroud the valves. That will improve airflow.

[Steve]

im going 4.005's :D

['02 ws6]

Plus, they are usually testing these on 454+ inch, LS7 headed engines; not the smaller lesser flowing cousins we're dealing with.

All of the motors that've reportedly gained power are stock cube LS3s and LS7s with H/C combos. Not sure what to take by that.
BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104

[Ktlplxm]

The LS7 may be a powerful engine platform, but when has that ever been enough for the performance enthusiast? Now GM LS manifold technology has been completely reinvented. The engineers at FAST™ teamed up with the airflow specialists at RHS® to develop the all-new LSXR™ 102mm Intake Manifold for raised rectangular port GM LS7 engines. Recent testing by Katech Performance produced gains of 16 horsepower and 18 ft/lbs of torque at the flywheel versus the stock intake) on a LS7 with a mild performance cam, Big Mouth 102mm Throttle Body™ and a Killer Bee intake. Testing at the School of Automotive Machinists on a 500c.i. LSX engine with LS7 heads netted even more impressive gains of 26+ rear wheel horsepower.--- from the FAST site. That little hp and torque and it was only on an engine dyno. The real numbers aren't until you get to a huge engine with huge heads... SAM doesn't do anything little.
When Andy@ Livernois, Jeff@CAM, or Alvin@PCM4LESS prove it I'll believe it.

[grandmacpubah]

L76 == LS2
LS3 == L92
L76 != LS3


sorry had to laugh at the relational operators...software geek alert!!!

[Steve]

Guilty ;)

[Defeater]

L76 Cast# 12568952
LS3 Cast# 12584727
L92 Cast# 12584727
LS2 Cast# 12568952

Thus

L76 == LS2
LS3 == L92
L76 != LS3


Well, guess I been lied to then...

I know the L76 and LS3 are both based on the rectangle-port L92 on the top end, at least...

I'm thinking just a stock ported intake after all this discussion; about how much should I be looking to pay for this? What is really involved in the process of porting?

[Steve]

Lied to? well doubt anyone would purposefully lie to you about something like this - probably just 'misinformed' because they didn't know better. and Yup they do have the same heads :)

I think dan@fasterproms posted a special this weekend for porting for $300 something for TB & Manifold and I think mike @ new era does a core exchange too I believe with just your TB.

[Ktlplxm]

Lied to? well doubt anyone would purposefully lie to you about something like this - probably just 'misinformed' because they didn't know better. and Yup they do have the same heads :)

I think dan@fasterproms posted a special this weekend for porting for $300 something for TB & Manifold and I think mike @ new era does a core exchange too I believe with just your TB.

Agreed. Just didnt know better. Heads and intake are identical

[Crazy Paul]

Agreed. Just didnt know better. Heads and intake are identical

Head casting may be the same between LS3 and L76 but only the LS3 engine gets the hollow stem intake valves installed in its heads.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/L76L92_03.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/LSvalves_03.jpg

[Defeater]

I've learned so much about my engine just from this one thread. :P

[Ktlplxm]

Head casting may be the same between LS3 and L76 but only the LS3 engine gets the hollow stem intake valves installed in its heads.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/L76L92_03.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/LSvalves_03.jpg

I think this may be one of those "if you get it" parts from gm. Early on, when we had to replace an intake and exhaust valve we found I had Hollow intake valves. Could be similar to the ls6/ls2 thing. Some guys with the LS2 engines ended up with hollow valves... Considering he'll be changing them when he builds the engine, its probably a moot point anyway.

[Steve]

I got hollow stem valves to go with my cam kit :D

[Defeater]

Is there a point? Seems like solid stems would be more durable just by their nature.

The titanium LS9 valves seem awesome but probably pointless.

[Steve]

Debatable depending on who you talk to :) Some say yes, some say no. They're lighter and a lot of what I read was positive so I decided to go for it

[GeorgeInNePa]

Less mass in the valvetrain is a good thing.

['02 ws6]

Less mass in the valvetrain is a good thing.

x2

[Ktlplxm]

And it depends on the conditions you plan on putting the valves through... A severe duty solid valve weighs more, but will take alot more abuse...good for power adders

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I have broken LS6 hollow valves in my Supercharged GTP and then switched to the solid LS2 valves. The solids will take more abuse just like Ktlplxm says.

Ahh the Ti valves. The LS3 hollows are ~25.00 each and the Ti valves are ~80.00 each ;)

[99-LS1-SS]

I have broken LS6 hollow valves in my Supercharged GTP and then switched to the solid LS2 valves. The solids will take more abuse just like Ktlplxm says.



I've heard this too, from reputable companies.

[GeorgeInNePa]

And it depends on the conditions you plan on putting the valves through... A severe duty solid valve weighs more, but will take alot more abuse...good for power adders


I have broken LS6 hollow valves in my Supercharged GTP and then switched to the solid LS2 valves. The solids will take more abuse just like Ktlplxm says.

Ahh the Ti valves. The LS3 hollows are ~25.00 each and the Ti valves are ~80.00 each ;)

This is true, if you are going to use a lot of boost or nitrous, solids might be better for you.

[Ktlplxm]

hahah They all end up with boost or nitrous in the end!!!! ok, maybe the ones I own

[Defeater]

Well the valves are going to get as much abuse as (the mysterious, unquantifiable area of) 550 to 700 horsepower will put on them with no supercharger or go-juice.

Seems like the hollow valves would be a better bet if the engine was made to be more rev-happy; I would think that the amount of usable revs would actually decrease by using a stroker kit.

[Ktlplxm]

Depends on how much stroke you put in it. The big thing most people look at is stroke to rod ratio... If you are planning on making 700 chp, then some of your earlier "desires" for the car are gonna be a stretch. Can you make that much hp on engine alone; yes. Are you gonna enjoy driving it everyday, and it be 100% reliable and streetable; not likely. If you plan on doing it with a power adder then it is not an issue. If you build a 416-418 then the revving is irrelevant, you can spin it to 75-7800 no problem (assuming you take everything else into consideration). But why turn it higher than necesary? Spinning the engine that high would require some nasty spring rates, titanium valvetrain hardware, light valves, etc to be bulletproof.

[Steve]

My Stroker Kit got delivered Tuesday, Finally got around to snapping some pics:

http://g8gt.blogspot.com/2009/07/403-ci-stroker-kit-has-arrived.html

[G8GT721]

Just didn't feel like taking it out with how heavy it was so all you get to see is a picture of the box!


Update: Ok I gave in ;) here is the crank!

lol, did you make an appointment yet?

[Steve]

Lol No point - no $$ left after all this ;) hahah Figure it'll be a few months

[GRRRR8]

My Stroker Kit got delivered Tuesday, Finally got around to snapping some pics:

http://g8gt.blogspot.com/2009/07/403-ci-stroker-kit-has-arrived.html

If you need me to field test this for you, just say the word. :)

[G8GT721]

Lol No point - no $$ left after all this ;) hahah Figure it'll be a few months

that sucks i would never have bought it till i had the money for the install right then. It would be eating away at me everytime i would go in to the garage and see the boxes lol

[Steve]

true, but the problem with that is that then i'd keep on saving and never do anything.. "oh just xxx more and I could do this instead... save... repeat" meanwhile not doing anything! I'm already bad at that because I keep overthinking everything I do . I already ordered an extra $500 part for my stroker kit just for 'peace of mind' LOL

at least this way I sorta 'carve my path' .. i've had my cam kit sitting here for months now because I was trying to decide whether to stroke it at the same time.. now that that decision has been made it's just saving up for the install.. So i'm pretty content :D

[fiveoh]

Wow im very envious. Cant wait to see your results!

[GeorgeInNePa]

true, but the problem with that is that then i'd keep on saving and never do anything.. "oh just xxx more and I could do this instead... save... repeat" meanwhile not doing anything! I'm already bad at that because I keep overthinking everything I do . I already ordered an extra $500 part for my stroker kit just for 'peace of mind' LOL

at least this way I sorta 'carve my path' .. i've had my cam kit sitting here for months now because I was trying to decide whether to stroke it at the same time.. now that that decision has been made it's just saving up for the install.. So i'm pretty content :D


???

[G8GT721]

true, but the problem with that is that then i'd keep on saving and never do anything.. "oh just xxx more and I could do this instead... save... repeat" meanwhile not doing anything! I'm already bad at that because I keep overthinking everything I do . I already ordered an extra $500 part for my stroker kit just for 'peace of mind' LOL

at least this way I sorta 'carve my path' .. i've had my cam kit sitting here for months now because I was trying to decide whether to stroke it at the same time.. now that that decision has been made it's just saving up for the install.. So i'm pretty content :D

to stroke or not to stroke that is the question

[Defeater]

Just make sure to get it on a damn dyno, that's for certain...

You're still going to run the stock heads, though? Interesting.

[fiveoh]

to stroke or not to stroke that is the question
Or if your really luck you get stroked and blown
:bjob:

[Steve]

Just make sure to get it on a damn dyno, that's for certain...

You're still going to run the stock heads, though? Interesting.

Going to do Valve-job only so far since porting is $$$. Perhaps by the time I slap on the supercharger i'll do the porting. Haven't really done enough research (which you know i'll spend weeks/months on ) but so far it seems like a ported L92 head is pretty good vs aftermarket heads

[Steve]

???

Something like this ;)

http://image.popularhotrodding.com/f/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/8954227+pinline_medium/0511phr_engls1_04_z.jpg

[GeorgeInNePa]

Going to do Valve-job only so far since porting is $$$. Perhaps by the time I slap on the supercharger i'll do the porting. Haven't really done enough research (which you know i'll spend weeks/months on ) but so far it seems like a ported L92 head is pretty good vs aftermarket heads

We'll have a bit more info in a few weeks when mine are done.

;)

[Steve]

Comparing Stage III of these guys http://www.jegs.com/p/Patriot-Performance/Patriot-Performance-GM-LS2-LS6-CNC-Ported-Heads/1120891/10002/-1

it seems like the stock L92 is very close already, so a ported L92 looks like it should outperform these.

George- who are you having do your heads?

[GeorgeInNePa]

Something like this ;)

http://image.popularhotrodding.com/f/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/8954227+pinline_medium/0511phr_engls1_04_z.jpg


I hate thumbnails.

What is that, some kind of girdle?

[Steve]

yes sir

[Steve]

there ya go :)
http://g8gt.blogspot.com/2009/07/lsx-main-girdle.html

[GeorgeInNePa]

Interesting.

Thanks for posting that.

[GRRRR8]

Ford guys have been using them for years to beef up 302s and 351s for hi HP. Anything you can do to keep the crank in the block or the block from flexing is a huge plus.

I saw a 231 Buick V6 push the crank out of the block as it did a wheel stand!

NOT PRETTY!

[Ktlplxm]

Dont waste the money on Patriot heads. No one likes bashing so I won't say anything else concerning them. The best buy on the Market are the Livernois Heads. When you do get the money buy them.. As far as the factory heads, I made all of my numbers with them on the engine. I didnt install my ported units till this week. After seeing numbers, I'm vouching for them (which anyone on this board who has ever talked with me knows is rare)

[GRRRR8]

I will vouch for his vouch. :)

[Ktlplxm]

Thanks for the support lol

[edmanet]

true, but the problem..... i've had my cam kit sitting here for months now because I was trying to decide whether to stroke it at the same time.. now that that decision has been made it's just saving up for the install..

Waiting to Install: Vector Non-DOD CamShaft Package & Livernois (Callies/Diamond) 403ci Stroker Kit

So i'm pretty content :D

If I have to go the stroker route...I'm just going to buy a LIVERNOIS short block.

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/view.phtml?f_cat=Performance+Packages%3A+General+M otors%3A+LS1+%2F+LS2+%2F+LS6%3A+Shortblocks

[Steve]

Dont waste the money on Patriot heads. No one likes bashing so I won't say anything else concerning them. The best buy on the Market are the Livernois Heads. When you do get the money buy them.. As far as the factory heads, I made all of my numbers with them on the engine. I didnt install my ported units till this week. After seeing numbers, I'm vouching for them (which anyone on this board who has ever talked with me knows is rare)

Ok so you got livernois to port your stock heads? (if so, how much?) Or did you buy their stage 3 heads for the $2200?
any new numbers for comparison sake?

[GeorgeInNePa]

Comparing Stage III of these guys http://www.jegs.com/p/Patriot-Performance/Patriot-Performance-GM-LS2-LS6-CNC-Ported-Heads/1120891/10002/-1

it seems like the stock L92 is very close already, so a ported L92 looks like it should outperform these.

George- who are you having do your heads?

I missed this post, sorry.

Greg Good in Houston.

Since I'm staying stock cubes for now, we're not fully porting the intakes, they'll just get a touch-up. The intake side flows plenty of air, the exhaust needs help.

Install my LS3 intake valves, valve job, install my spring kit, touch up the intake ports, fully port the exhaust ports, do whatever work is necessary in the combustion chambers and under/behind the valves, etc...

$550

[Steve]

550? thats it??? kirk told me 1500 for a porting job with me providing the heads... wtf...

[GeorgeInNePa]

550? thats it??? kirk told me 1500 for a porting job with me providing the heads... wtf...

1500 is high.

They are removing metal, not casting new heads...

;)

[Ktlplxm]

I missed this post, sorry.

Greg Good in Houston.

Since I'm staying stock cubes for now, we're not fully porting the intakes, they'll just get a touch-up. The intake side flows plenty of air, the exhaust needs help.

Install my LS3 intake valves, valve job, install my spring kit, touch up the intake ports, fully port the exhaust ports, do whatever work is necessary in the combustion chambers and under/behind the valves, etc...

$550

But he isn't fully porting the heads. Thats why its so cheap... Either that or he is just cutting you a hell of a deal. $1500 for completely cnc'ing a set with valves is still a good deal. If you think it is high, look at the price of lingenfelters, Lloyd Elliots, AI...

Hopefully he is just replacing the intake valves...$550 barely buys a good set of just valves, not to mention all the work that still needs to be done to the castings

[Ktlplxm]

Ok so you got livernois to port your stock heads? (if so, how much?) Or did you buy their stage 3 heads for the $2200?
any new numbers for comparison sake?

I just bought the heads straight out...worth every penny. I've learned over the last 13 years not to pinch money when it comes to heads. That is where every bit of your power comes from. I do not foresee ever buying "hand ported" heads again, or ones "from a guy who works for a CUP team". If they are CNc'd then hand finished its one thing, but otherwise I stay away. I've found its better to have a great cylinder head and engine, than a great engine with a crappy head. As far as comparison numbers, it would be hard to compare (plus i'm the extremely secretive type until after I've changed from a combination). The cam I utilized to make over 5oo rwhp was pulled and sold to someone else because I hated the sound of it. I hate lope. I despise stall converters. Therefor both were sold to another customer who liked them. I will however have some interesting numbers next week for those wondering what the real difference is between headers with high flow cats, vs manifolds w/ stock "brick" style cats, at least on my engine.

[Steve]

I totally understand. Looks like those heads will be on the list then after the stroker install (since it's not gonna happen before..)

i have a 228/228 cam laying around.. wondering what's that going to do for lope since I don't care for that much either...

[GeorgeInNePa]

But he isn't fully porting the heads. Thats why its so cheap... Either that or he is just cutting you a hell of a deal. $1500 for completely cnc'ing a set with valves is still a good deal. If you think it is high, look at the price of lingenfelters, Lloyd Elliots, AI...

Hopefully he is just replacing the intake valves...$550 barely buys a good set of just valves, not to mention all the work that still needs to be done to the castings

Look at it again, the valves are mine.

;)

1500 is still high.

[Ktlplxm]

Look at it again, the valves are mine.

;)

1500 is still high.

And I never said otherwise. I actually said that it wasn't including valves at that price. $1500 is nothing for a good, well designed, CNC'd head.

[Devilish34]

Ford guys have been using them for years to beef up 302s and 351s for hi HP. Anything you can do to keep the crank in the block or the block from flexing is a huge plus.

I saw a 231 Buick V6 push the crank out of the block as it did a wheel stand!

NOT PRETTY!

Same as or similar to the supports they add in the valley on some of the Fords to keep them from splitting??

[Crazy Paul]

Same as or similar to the supports they add in the valley on some of the Fords to keep them from splitting??

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/DSC06053.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/DSC06059.jpg

[Devilish34]

Ouch!! Whats that out of?

[Crazy Paul]

Not sure but its a Henry of some description.


[The orange rubber mallet in the first pic cracks me up, I'm sure there's no need for such finesse with that engine.]

[GeorgeInNePa]

West Coast Cylinder Heads (they seem to be well regarded in LSx circles) has this on their webpage...

http://www.proheads.com/pricing.html

WCCH-L92
Complete assembly prices as follows:
Total (w/SI Valves & Gold Springs) $1779.00

Total (w/SI & Valves Extreme Springs) $1824.00

Total (w/REV Valves & Gold Springs) $1837.56

Total (w/REV Valves & Extreme Springs) $1882.56

Add for hollow stem intake valves $158.72

Bare L92 castings are $213.00, each. A Patriot Gold spring kit is $255.00, GM valves are $311.00 for stock replacements (I don't think WCCH uses stock GM valves).

That's $992.00 in parts (retail). That leaves $787.00 for labor. (I'm sure WCCH doesn't pay retail, I'm sure he has some mark up in the parts to help out the bottom line)

$550.00 doesn't seem that far off now...

[GeorgeInNePa]

And I never said otherwise. I actually said that it wasn't including valves at that price. $1500 is nothing for a good, well designed, CNC'd head.

I think I see where we're misunderstanding each other.

I'm talking labor alone, with me providing the heads, valves and all other parts needed.

You're talking a complete assembly.

[Ktlplxm]

I think I see where we're misunderstanding each other.

I'm talking labor alone, with me providing the heads, valves and all other parts needed.

You're talking a complete assembly.

Now we are seeing eye to eye. Most guys don't have the luxury of down time, and have to either get new castings, or at the very least cores. So if we go with the $550(labor for porting heads)+$750(new bare castings)+$250 (decent springs)= $1550

[Steve]

I'll be down for a week or two once I do this.. maybe i'll talk to rick/andy and see about shipping in my heads