Anyone interested in Tokico struts?

[dandragonrage]

As most of you know, we have a serious lack of good strut brands available for our cars. Koni offers them in insert form only. Some of you are big into Pedders - I am not, but that's another story. We'll count them here anyway. And then there's... Monroe? lol

So that's what, two or three brands? In my Camaro, I could go Koni, Bilstein, Tokico, KYB (their AGX line isn't so bad), and if you include the really expensive and drag shocks (which I am not interested in), the list will go on further.

Tokico D-Spec is a very good shock, and I for one would like to see it released for our car. Anyone agree? If so, let them know you're interested here: http://www.hitachi-hap-la.com/TokicoGasShocks/app/IRQ_Form.html

Even if they come out with their "HP" shock for our cars, it would most likely still be a good choice for the money. I'd still prefer the D-Spec, though.

I put in a request today and it was quickly replied to by a fellow named David who said they would look into it, but that the demand has not been high. If you guys are interested, maybe we can get them to do something for us.

['02 ws6]

Not saying you're in the minority on not preferring Pedders, but a LOT of people on here have had great setups utilizing their various kits. When a product like that has such a good forum reputation, it's hard to sway the masses to an unproven setup.

[dandragonrage]

My point was that regardless of what people think about Pedders (I would say Pedders is one of the least proven shock/strut making companies out there), more options are a good thing. Would nobody consider Tokico? They are a well known, very proven company and their Illumina shocks were long considered some of the best shocks around. D-Spec is better still. They are generally cheaper than Koni, and maybe we could get something near Koni level without having to deal with cartridges.

I can show you forums where people think that KYB GR-2 are the greatest struts ever. Sorry, but it doesn't mean that much. Are some people happy with them? Yes. Does that mean the product was worth having? For the money, yes. Is it statistically useful in figuring out what strut performs the best? No. Is it scientific? No. Is it enough for everyone? No. Someone's going to rip into me for this paragraph when I don't even own Pedders struts, but my point is NOT so much that I think Pedders sucks, but that I have seen no GOOD evidence that they don't. To me, a new company is going to have to prove that they're worth it. Actually, that's not just for new companies. Even if Tokico did come out with D-Spec for our cars, I wouldn't automatically assume that it's awesome. But I would give it more weight than I would Pedders. I think Pedders only got their reputation here because they are one of the few companies providing parts for us, and perhaps the only one providing as many as they do.

So, again, whether you like Pedders or not, would you guys like to see more options? Would you guys consider buying Tokico products for our cars if they made them? This is not some kind of preorder or anything that is going to take your money. Would you test them? Would you consider buying them over Pedders if other people tested them and you saw sufficient good about them?

For the record, I am not associated with Tokico. I prefer Koni. Tokico D-Spec is cheaper but not cheap, and great but not as great as Koni. If the money were sufficiently different, I would personally consider them over Koni. I made this specific thread because I found that link on their site and because the fellow who responded to me seemed interested in what I had to say. I am also currently looking into Bilstein to see if they have or can do anything for us. Maybe I will make a similar thread about them if I don't find one already.

[grandmacpubah]

more options is always a good thing...competition is a good thing

[Chewy]

The nice thing about Pedders is their complete package. It's a one stop shop.

Not knowing much about them I don't know if they're good or bad.

Chris

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I think its always better to have more options. I'll shoot them an e-mail.
BlackBerry8703e/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104

['02 ws6]

To argue to response on the Pedders, when a manufacturer can produce skid pad results that significantly trump the competition, I think that's enough to prove that they don't suck. I'm not saying that the market couldn't use more options though. If the price is right and they perform well, why wouldn't someone want to try them out.
BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104

[dandragonrage]

To argue to response on the Pedders, when a manufacturer can produce skid pad results that significantly trump the competition, I think that's enough to prove that they don't suck. I'm not saying that the market couldn't use more options though. If the price is right and they perform well, why wouldn't someone want to try them out.
BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104

What competition have they trumped? Please show me head-to-head comparisons with Koni and other brands.

[Chewy]

What competition have they trumped? Please show me head-to-head comparisons with Koni and other brands.

As far as I know there is NO other brand sold in the U.S. that offers the complete line of products they do so doing a head to head is damn near impossible. I guess they could throw their struts on with stock springs and test against another G8 with the same but another brands...

[2QUIK4U]

I have the Pedders Street 2 + sway bars on my car and I love this setup however more options is always better. I have Tokico shocks and springs on my 240sx and they perform good as well for a lower priced setup. The Pedders suspension comes from Australia where these cars are manufactured and has been used on the previous GTO as well. I would say that they are pretty proven by now. You cant go wrong with Pedders but it would be nice to see more options.

[dandragonrage]

The Pedders suspension comes from Australia where these cars are manufactured and has been used on the previous GTO as well. I would say that they are pretty proven by now. You cant go wrong with Pedders but it would be nice to see more options.

I haven't seen that they are proven to perform better than Koni or other well known brands. You could say that they are decently proven to not fall apart and cause your car to blow up from what you say. I would like to see evidence that they will match Koni yellows or Bilstein B6/B8s or Tokico D-Specs on an otherwise identical car.

Having people using a product does not provide evidence that it is the best product to use.

[dandragonrage]

As far as I know there is NO other brand sold in the U.S. that offers the complete line of products they do so doing a head to head is damn near impossible. I guess they could throw their struts on with stock springs and test against another G8 with the same but another brands...

Koni offers strut inserts for us, and I see Bilstein's Australian website mentions they now have VE Commodore products. I sent them an email earlier asking for information on that.

[r33pwrd]

I want to see a comparison between pedders and TEIN...(coilovers) I have run TEIN's in the past and cannot think of a bad thing to say about them (OK well they are Green :) ) never used Pedders and I only have heard good things about them but I dont think many have tried anything else on their G8...

[Panzer Leader]

It would be nice to have other types. I am satisfied so far with the Pedders Street II and their sway bars. I would think that since they are an Australian Company they have had experience on these cars. Not sure but it was part of my logic in choosing them. I know H&R have springs for the G-8 but I did not want the drop that they were using. The choices at the time were limited. As far as customer service, I have been pleased, and though Mike might disagree, it was enjoyable talking with him. His help was always appreciated. At least Pedders has shown an interest in helping us Yanks out. And I believe that they will continue to make additional products in the future.

[dandragonrage]

It would be nice to have other types. I am satisfied so far with the Pedders Street II and their sway bars. I would think that since they are an Australian Company they have had experience on these cars.

You guys have some weird justifications for things, you know? :nah: Those Europeans can make good stuff too (both Koni and Bilstein are European - Tokico is, of course, Japanese)

The car is sold in the US obviously as the G8, but also in Europe as the Vauxhall VXR8. And there's the Lumina, etc. It's not only Australian. And it's certainly ridiculous to suggest that Pedders is any better because the VE Commodore was originally Australian and Pedders is Australian. Would American shocks be better on the Corvette? Tell that to GM, because the 'vette comes with Bilstein (German).

['02 ws6]

I think it's more a point of simplicity. If there's another strut out there that won't necessarily perform better or worse than a Pedders setup, and you plan on ordering a kit (IE-Street II), why bother with ordering different struts, when you can get a whole package with supporting pieces, and maybe save on shipping, and get everything at once. That's at least my assumption.

[menace]

So no love for Lovells here? They sell everything as well guys...

[Panzer Leader]

You guys have some weird justifications for things, you know? :nah: Those Europeans can make good stuff too (both Koni and Bilstein are European - Tokico is, of course, Japanese)

The car is sold in the US obviously as the G8, but also in Europe as the Vauxhall VXR8. And there's the Lumina, etc. It's not only Australian. And it's certainly ridiculous to suggest that Pedders is any better because the VE Commodore was originally Australian and Pedders is Australian. Would American shocks be better on the Corvette? Tell that to GM, because the 'vette comes with Bilstein (German).

You miss the point. I did not say they were better than anyone else. When I checked there were no other brands available except Koni and I did not like the modifications needed to utilize them. And I did not want coil overs. That said, I looked at the Pedders system. Get a grip.

[dandragonrage]

You miss the point. I did not say they were better than anyone else. When I checked there were no other brands available except Koni and I did not like the modifications needed to utilize them. And I did not want coil overs. That said, I looked at the Pedders system. Get a grip.

Point of this thread is wanting more alternatives, though as I said earlier, it looks like Bilstein might have something now. I'll make a new post when I find out more.

[-Ray-]

As most of you know, we have a serious lack of good strut brands available for our cars. Koni offers them in insert form only. Some of you are big into Pedders - I am not, but that's another story. We'll count them here anyway.

So that's what, two or three brands? In my Camaro, I could go Koni, Bilstein, Tokico, KYB (their AGX line isn't so bad), and if you include the really expensive and drag shocks (which I am not interested in), the list will go on further.

Tokico D-Spec is a very good shock, and I for one would like to see it released for our car. Anyone agree? If so, let them know you're interested here: http://www.hitachi-hap-la.com/TokicoGasShocks/app/IRQ_Form.html

Even if they come out with their "HP" shock for our cars, it would most likely still be a good choice for the money. I'd still prefer the D-Spec, though.

I put in a request today and it was quickly replied to by a fellow named David who said they would look into it, but that the demand has not been high. If you guys are interested, maybe we can get them to do something for us.

Removed your Monroe reference in the quote. Until you show documented proof I'm running Monroe rather than Pedders, please refrain from posting that reference. We've been seeing Pedders haters for over a year now.

When you find a company that will build and ship parts to the states for the G8, excitement for your request will be really low.
I'm sure as soon as other options for suspension components make it to the states, you'll find some support.

BTW, there are already options for the G8. Check our CP's forum in the Vendors area.

[dandragonrage]

Sorry, but Monroe GT, given that they are trying to actually be a performance line, is junk. They're cheap and you get what you pay for. Check out Google and you'll find people telling you to use KYB, Gabriel, and Tokico HP (their low-end line) instead.

They are essentially an OEM "sport" suspension replacement part.

Edit: It seems that there has been some confusion in thinking that I suggested Pedders and Monroe GT are related. Perhaps some wording was ambiguous or something, but I said, or meant to say, no such thing.

[Chewy]

So no love for Lovells here? They sell everything as well guys...

They don't have distribution/installers setup like Pedders. That's all I'm saying...

Pedders has the dealer network.

Chris

[menace]

Lovells at the moment i think have 2 dealers...

[dandragonrage]

Lovells at the moment i think have 2 dealers...

If they had a better network, I would certainly buy some things from them, as long as Pete isn't working for them!

Unfortunately I did not hear back from the Bilstein Au people yet....

[menace]

If they had a better network, I would certainly buy some things from them, as long as Pete isn't working for them!

Unfortunately I did not hear back from the Bilstein Au people yet....

Bilstein are sold through http://www.heasmans.com.au/ hopefully they are the guys you speaking too.

But these guys are another major suspension business in Sydney http://www.wholesalesuspension.com.au/ they sell Bilstein as well.

Shipping might be a problem but i think Crazy Paul can help you out for a fee...

[dandragonrage]

Well, before I'll consider ordering them internationally, I need to find out what I can do if I have a problem and need them repaired/replaced under warranty. Or if I will even still have a warranty at all. I'm not even sure which products they have for the VE Commodore yet. I hope B6.

[StockG8]

Bump to an old thread. I wonder whatever happen to this?

[dandragonrage]

I never received a response from the Bilstein Au people, and as I said before, Tokico didn't think we had enough interest. I'm still running stockers.

[todds87ss]

All of the love for Pedders products comes from their network. Hard to compete with decent (I did not say great) products, fairly easy to find installers, and OK customer service. I am not fond of their marketing stratagies, but lack of other products leaves me wanting. BMR might be working on something? Check Whiteline, or Lovells. I certainly agree that there needs to be more options, and would like to see more action from Koni or KYB - Once these become police cruisers, mabey we'll see something.

[StockG8]

I highly doubt Bilstein, Tokico, or KYB will make anything performance for the G8 seeing for A.)Pontiac is dead in the US (though still exist in Australia), B.) Low volume, C.) Low demand.

I'm trying to be polite, but I don't see there's nothing spectacular about Peddlers or Monroe's GT. Question is are they twin tube or mono design? As for Teins they are not the greatest compare other performance brand but it's a start and something I would invest in compare to the other 2.

[dandragonrage]

Bilstein and Koni DO make them. The Bilsteins are not available in the US as far as I know, but they seem to be in Au. Koni is, unfortunately, a shock [cartridge] only that must be inserted into our struts after we cut our stock shocks out.

Edit: Actually, I still don't see the VE Commodore Bilstein stuff. I saw it listed under "new products" on www.bilstein.com.au a few months ago but I don't see it in the catalog.

I have a hard time imagining that Koni WON'T be the highest performing option available. It's just too much work for most people. I might go for them sometime, though. Just not right now.

KYB? KYB is junk. Including their AGX. Monroe is also junk.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

you seem to have some different opinions on what is good and what is bad.

Pedders has been making dampers for nearly 60 years, and you said "I would say Pedders is one of the least proven shock/strut making companies out there".

it seems you have a personal issue that is clouding your opinions and judgments on this.

[StockG8]

I never heard of Pedders until I own a G8 and I been tracking my vehicles and motorcycles since the 80's. :shrug

Is Pedders twin or mono design?

[Rob@WretchedMS]

GSR is Twin, Xa's are Mono

They haven't been in the US until 2004, but they have been in AU for years, and they are the largest retailer of suspension parts in AU, from OE type replacement (like Moog) to the Performance line like the parts that we sell here.

[dandragonrage]

you seem to have some different opinions on what is good and what is bad.

Pedders has been making dampers for nearly 60 years, and you said "I would say Pedders is one of the least proven shock/strut making companies out there".

it seems you have a personal issue that is clouding your opinions and judgments on this.

The issue I have is that they aren't being used in SCCA and the like here. Why? Koni is far more proven than Pedders can ever be.

I'll order some Pedders products when Pete is fired. And I may order ball joints from them before that out of necessity. But not shocks. No thank you. Also, this is not a thread about Pedders, but about alternatives. Every time an alternative is mentioned, hordes of Pedders drones close in.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

The only GTO to compete in the SCCA competitively that i know of ran Koni/King combo and changed to Pedders. It wasn't until he made the change that he won (Only GTO to ever win in his class.)

It seems that you are pissed at Pedders not because of it's products, but because of it's President. Pete can be very polarizing, but in the end, says what he means, and means what he says.

The fastest GTOs run Pedders
The fastest G8's run Pedders
The fastest Gen 5 Camaro's run Pedders

seems that you have issues with a number of vendors/companies....

[todds87ss]

The only GTO to compete in the SCCA competitively that i know of ran Koni/King combo and changed to Pedders. It wasn't until he made the change that he won (Only GTO to ever win in his class.)

It seems that you are pissed at Pedders not because of it's products, but because of it's President. Pete can be very polarizing, but in the end, says what he means, and means what he says.

The fastest GTOs run Pedders - no alternatives
The fastest G8's run Pedders - no alternatives
The fastest Gen 5 Camaro's run Pedders - HUH???

seems that you have issues with a number of vendors/companies....

This thread was asking if others wanted alternatives. I think the answer was "yes", and shame on you for taking another opportunity for a shameless plug.:spank:
I can see that until alternatives hit the marketplace, pedders will remain on top. That's what getting there first gets you. Large market share, with no competition (in the states).

[Rob@WretchedMS]

i'll stay out of it from here on out unless it turns in to a Pedders bash,
Sorry

[Tjay74]

Sorry but i guess i will chime in on this....

Pedders stuff works and it top notch. Theier dealer network is great and they bend over backwards to help all of their customers out.

I have used koni and eibach in the past on my 2001 formula and pedders on my 2006 gto and as well will on my 2009 g8 gxp. Does it suck there is no other brands, not really but choices are always nice.

To say "pedders sucks and or is not proven" is just a very open and or unproven bash because you have personal issues with a person with in the company.

Koni and bilstien didnt just who up overnight here in the usa, they came over because cars that used their products came over to the usa and replacement parts were needed.

If you hate pedders so much then buy the koni cartridges and put them on your car and move on as like it has been said there were only around 40,000 gto's and now around 40,000 g8's. With modding the cars being such a small percentage of the ownership as most owners will just use oem or aftermarket stock (cheap as possible) replacements and maybe 10% of the owners will opt for a better shock/strut then you cant fault the aftermarket industry for not wanting to spend $100,000+ in r&d money for such a limited return demand.

Even if the shocks sold for $1000 and with maybe 4000 owners who will maybe mod their cars you are asking the afore mentioned companies to spend $100,000 in r&d money to recpoup maybe $20,000 on a good day in sales.

Aint going to happen.

Pedders works, are they cheap...nope. But their quality, dealer network, and support for the holden/pontiac lineup makes them the prime choice for a majority of the suspension for this car.

So either accept using oem, monroe, or koni cartridges for your g8 or make something else work.

The only 3 brands i would use are pedders, koni and bilstien on any of my cars that were performance oriented. My g8 is getting a pedders street i kit this spring along with some sway bar bushings and some lowersprings. That is far as i will go at this time until i get a different daily driver to replace the g8.

[todds87ss]

Sorry but i guess i will chime in on this....


Even if the shocks sold for $1000 and with maybe 4000 owners who will maybe mod their cars you are asking the afore mentioned companies to spend $100,000 in r&d money to recpoup maybe $20,000 on a good day in sales.

.

I think we were considering the global options, since this is a global platform. Your numbers don't work if the unit sales worldwide are on the order of 200, 000 annual. We are looking for global option for the suspension. Actually, hoping that some of the manufacturers worldwide could open up shop here to make it more affordable for the US market.

[2StepsAhead]

I had Tokico D-Specs on my Subaru, very nice struts...loved them over my kyb agx's.

[Ktlplxm]

I haven't had the Pedders shocks, I have the Konis. I have however had the Pedders springs, and sway bars; neither of which was I impressed with. I did have some issues with the springs slipping out of the "cup" in the upper mount on the rear. I was told this is common when not using Pedders struts/shocks. I did not have the issue with the Eibachs w/Konis.

[dandragonrage]

Koni is far better than Bilstein, IMO, though I would like to see Koni, Bilstein and Tokico D-spec all available. Having options is always good, and Koni certainly has a price premium.

[Ktlplxm]

I do feel that I should point out Pedders, or at least Rob @ Wretched's great customer service. He went out of his way to help with the issues I has with my purchased products

[Rob@WretchedMS]

Thanks for the props, appreciate it.