Game Over: Fritz Henderson Says No Rebadged G8 - EVER

[Seattle09GT]

Story broke just two hours ago. No rebadged G8 as a Chevrolet, Buick or Cadillac. It is done. Fritz has slammed the door shut. The only Zeta Platform vehicle North America will get is the Camaro, and the 31K to 33K G8s that will be on the road here when the final production run is sold out.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=150728

[Devilish34]

Fuck GM and their stupidity

[Seattle09GT]

It really is stunning to me. I know new CAFE standards are coming but damn it, give the G8 the direct injection 3.6L V6 and you could probably tweak it up to 18/30 MPG and due to the increased horsepower get better performance. If they spent another $100 to $200 per unit on the interiors they could address A LOT of the complaints in the media, and if they spent another $50 per unit on the paint process, solve another big problem. That's it. Slap a Buick badge on it (I say Buick because Chevrolet has A LOT of sedans as it is) and watch the sales come in. They already have the uplevel Buick interior bits from China, left hand drive and all.

God, so dumb, so dumb, so dumb, they're going to keep building W-Body Impalas with the 3.5L V6 under the hood, and they're killing the G8.

Sheer brilliance.

[GRRRR8]

Never wonder why there is a Camry or Accord on every corner.

[Chris442]

I just wonder if he was being a bit tight lipped. All he said was the G8 wouldn't be rebadged. That doesn't necessarily mean we won't see a version of the VF Commodore, which, after all, isn't exactly a G8, or a zeta LWB product known as the Statesman/Caprice down under or Buick Park Avenue in China.

[avintegrator]

GM is stupid! That's all I can say. I have no desire to purchase another one of their vehicles, honestly they just aren't that appealing anymore.When I was looking to replace my Avalanche I looked and looked for a GM product I was excited about, the Camaro was sitting in limbo somewhere and I hadn't driven the G8 yet as soon as I did I started looking for what I wanted, IOM, cloth, sunroof and I bought it. Now the wife wants a new car and it looks like another Mazda is in our future. Why? She hates, I mean hates all of the GM cars and little suv's that we looked at. Hell the guys at the Toyota dealership wanted to take my car for a test drive! Lol. Stupid GM, stupid! The best car you have made in a long long time and you kill it.
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)

[PUGS]

Of course GM would kill one of the best products they have.They still haven't realized thats what got them in trouble in the first place. I work for Toyota processing the cars coming into the NJ & NY region they know when the have a good product and they push it. Maybe GM should pay attention to what they are doing and learn a few things from them. Just want to add that everyone at my job loves my G8 and could not believe it was a GM product most people thought it was European at first glance.

[R.Penguin]

:gc:

Holden FTW!

[GM_Fan]

That would be a terrible decision by GM.

[PUGS]

I am not saying they should turn into the American version of Toyota but they need to realize when they have a good product like the G8 they should use it to their advantage. Believe me I have been working for them for 13 years and have never owned one of their cars.I have owned nothing but GM products.

[Mike P]

What can I say that hasn't been said in this thread already. This is why GM sucks and had to file for bankruptcy. Dumb car moves, and the UAW costs.

Like Penguin said Holden FTW!


...

[mtolivecracker]

i could throw up on GM right now.

[01350ta]

Fuck GM and their stupidity

+1 Must be a bunch of idiots running that company.

[zosoboogie]

hold the presses---------- My buddy at Cadillac said that after the bankruptcy and hopefully when GM gets back on their feet there is a huge possibility that Pontiac will be back. Like the Camaro he said!!! That is why they didn't sell the brand for pennies on the dollar!!

[Mike P]

hold the presses---------- My buddy at Cadillac said that after the bankruptcy and hopefully when GM gets back on their feet there is a huge possibility that Pontiac will be back. Like the Camaro he said!!! That is why they didn't sell the brand for pennies on the dollar!!


That would be nice, but I thought they were forced to permanately "kill" a brand though......?



....

[R.Penguin]

Seems I remember they said GM spent 5 billion developing the zeta platform. Dunno, CRS!
:p

[R.Penguin]

What can I say that hasn't been said in this thread already. This is why GM sucks and had to file for bankruptcy. Dumb car moves, and the UAW costs.

Like Penguin said Holden FTW!


...
Now that Holden knows there is a market for a G8/Commodore vehicle in the US, who knows? 35-45,000 cars a year is Holdens meat & potatos! :headbang:

[Seattle09GT]

Seems I remember they said GM spent 5 billion developing the zeta platform. Dunno, CRS!
:p

And it is such a lost cause it appears that realistically 5% to 10% of the G8s in Puget Sound will be in one location on Friday to strut their stuff.

[G8+6=fun]

I might be wrong on this but was it not obama who said get r done or I will and did he not push Chrysler into selling to fiat. Hummers went to china, He give billions to the banks yet just a few to the Auto makers. He wanted them to go down so he could get his 40 mile to the gal junk up and running. Thats is why he got rid of rick wagnor because Fitz was a pussy yes man. The Buick was already down in sales more then the Pontiac yet buick stayed around. Buick did not go away because it use the Cadillac engine so to keep it in line they kept Buick. Pontiac use the chevy engine so it had plenty of vehicles to use that one in.

[Seattle09GT]

Now that Holden knows there is a market for a G8/Commodore vehicle in the US, who knows? 35-45,000 cars a year is Holdens meat & potatos! :headbang:

I just realized there may still be hope.

Penske owns Saturn, and Penske will need to find new products to represent after 2011.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Dear Mr. Penske...

[Seattle09GT]

I might be wrong on this but was it not obama who said get r done or I will and did he not push Chrysler into selling to fiat. Hummers went to china, He give billions to the banks yet just a few to the Auto makers. He wanted them to go down so he could get his 40 mile to the gal junk up and running. Thats is why he got rid of rick wagnor because Fitz was a pussy yes man. The Buick was already down in sales more then the Pontiac yet buick stayed around. Buick did not go away because it use the Cadillac engine so to keep it in line they kept Buick. Pontiac use the chevy engine so it had plenty of vehicles to use that one in.

I agree with some of your post, but Buick is a much stronger brand than Pontiac. GM is the number one importer in China, and Buick is the number one imported nameplate in China. They have six models (soon to be seven) including a Zeta Platform based luxury car called the Park Avenue. If GM sold off Buick, a Chinese company would buy it in a heartbeat, and GM would basically give up its entire position in China. Given China is the number one car economy in the world as of 2008, and will only grow larger, completely dumb.

I had heard that half of the people on this auto committee that Obama formed don't even own cars - that says a lot. I know it is painful but we've been through this before (1972, and Nixon was a Republican for what it is worth). It took almost 40 years to get to another golden age of muscle cars (just like from 1964 to 1971). We have between muscle and pony cars the Challenger, Mustang, G8, Camaro, Charger, and you could give honorable mention to the V6 Genesis coupe, the G35/G37, and the ISF (I know they are different cars, but it's worth putting them in the same class). I started driving in 1984, you could count on both hands the number of cars you could buy with 200+ HP. 300 HP is the new 200 HP, has been for a decade.

We've already seen a glimpse of the future, the 2.0L DI turbo 4 that GM has is an amazing engine (but lacks the grumpf to drag around a two ton G8).

It will take some time as the new CAFE standards crushes the cars of today, and once again, we could see a point where you can count the number of 200 HP cars you could buy on both hands with fingers left over. But engines will get more efficient, power to weight ratios will improve, and technologies like electric motors will get more efficient, batteries will get lighter, and have a longer life.

Just as people look at a 64 GTO with admiration today, and will view them for how good they WERE, by today's standards they are ill braking, ill handling, gas guzzling death traps. I don't say that slam muscle cars, it just the way it is. They represent everything that was so right, and everything that was so wrong back then.

BUT, if you told someone back in 1964 that Pontiac would sell a two passenger roadster that put out 260 HP SAE and 260 pound feet of torque with a 2.0 liter 4-cylinder turbo engine, that will last 150K miles with nothing more than ordinary care, and get 30 MPG while propelling that car at muscle car speed, you'd be laughed at to even consider that was the future.

Dark days are coming, I don't deny that for a second. But it will get better.

[richm52]

I just realized there may still be hope.

Penske owns Saturn, and Penske will need to find new products to represent after 2011.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Dear Mr. Penske...

As many have said before this is a car that needs to continue and not to rebadge it is truly a stupid decision by GM.

With regards to Penske, he's going to go for fuel sippers. He's a botton line guy and I don't think the G8 or similar vehicle is going to be part of his business plan.

For those of us who have G8s we are very fortunate as this car is the best bang for the buck on the market.

[Purf]

Story broke just two hours ago. No rebadged G8 as a Chevrolet, Buick or Cadillac. It is done. Fritz has slammed the door shut. The only Zeta Platform vehicle North America will get is the Camaro, and the 31K to 33K G8s that will be on the road here when the final production run is sold out.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=150728


Fritz, read the third party reviews on the G8, which are all uniformly great, grow a set, and keep the G8 platform somewhere in the GM family. Not everybody wants to drive a Prius or the equivalent. I read somewhere a suggestion that all G8 GT and GXP owners should meet in front of the White House and do burnouts to protest Obama's mandating the the U.S. carmakers only make putt-putt cars. Fritz, are you listening??????????:flag:

[g8gxp]

i think we're all jumping the gun a little here. Firstly, I would imagine that there is considerable pressure by Government Motors to get rid of the g8 because it's largely a v8performance sedan, so whether Fritz wants to or not, he needs to say it's done and gone - for now.

Secondly, they could just be waiting till after the restructuring to bring back pontiac. Let's see what they say after the proceedings, then we can roast him on a spit.

[foreosu]

So Fritz says he is not a fan of rebadging... Well, what the hell is a Pontiac G8??? Yep, its a freakin HOLDEN!! Hello!!

[Ktlplxm]

This all just goes to prove one thing and one thing only; when you have a bunch of know nothing, couldn't tell the difference between a wrench and a ratchet, penny pinching accountants, running everything instead of the people that know cars and how to respond to small market changes, everything goes down the tubes. They love the name chevrolet because of the numbers it produces, but they don;t even think that is because of the overwhelming majority of chevy cars to other gm's. Chevrolet is boring, and has been for years. I for one am glad they aren't rebadging the G8 as a chevy anything, all they would have accomplished is "bitching" it down so it looked like the other three models most people cannot see the difference in, the Impala, MonteCarlo, and Malibu. If the G8 and pontiac stay dead, my car values rise. Hopefully in time these cars will be similar to Grand Nationals and Impalas; way over priced but people are willing to pay for them since there won't be many left

[majesticix]

So Fritz says he is not a fan of rebadging... Well, what the hell is a Pontiac G8??? Yep, its a freakin HOLDEN!! Hello!!

Yeah I totally agree. I don't think Fritz has a freaking clue. I'm not convinced yet.

[99-LS1-SS]

Fuck GM and their stupidity

+1

[SRG963]

Fuck GM and their stupidity

Yup

[r33pwrd]

Im sorry guys but time for a reality check... the G8 has not sold well in the states plain and simple. Why keep a car that does not sell well?? If anything the G6 was the ONLY car Pontiac has that sells well, the G8 was a failure from a sales standpoint. Dont get me wrong I love the car and think It should sell better but the days of V8's is over for the time being (unless its in a Truck or a sports car) everyone be happy you have a G8 or go buy one before it to late and stop the fucking crying!

[Seattle09GT]

Im sorry guys but time for a reality check... the G8 has not sold well in the states plain and simple. Why keep a car that does not sell well?? If anything the G6 was the ONLY car Pontiac has that sells well, the G8 was a failure from a sales standpoint. Dont get me wrong I love the car and think It should sell better but the days of V8's is over for the time being (unless its in a Truck or a sports car) everyone be happy you have a G8 or go buy one before it to late and stop the fucking crying!

But that isn't really true.

GM's sales target for the G8 for the first 12 months was 30K units.

During that time Pontiac sales plunged about 60%, the entire auto industry collapsed by 40%, yet GM sold about 23K G8s, about 76% of target. That is damn impressive given the climate, and given that from September to November unless you were Jesus from a credit stand point, it was almost impossible to get a new car loan.

The G8 isn't a sales failure (the Ozzies pointed this out on Top Gear) and did surprisingly well in a climate of $4.11 a gallon gasoline and a crushing recession, and a complete lack of marketing.

Oh ya - IT'S NOT A G6 - STOP ASKING!!!

[Chewy]

I don't know about ya'll, but I've got mine...

lol

Chris

[Panzer Leader]

What a bunch of ignorant fools! I have put too many posts regarding this subject other than to say that Ford, Chrysler, Honda, BMW, Toyota, Hyundai, Mercedes all say THANKS GM!!!!

[r33pwrd]

But that isn't really true.

GM's sales target for the G8 for the first 12 months was 30K units.

During that time Pontiac sales plunged about 60%, the entire auto industry collapsed by 40%, yet GM sold about 23K G8s, about 76% of target. That is damn impressive given the climate, and given that from September to November unless you were Jesus from a credit stand point, it was almost impossible to get a new car loan.

The G8 isn't a sales failure (the Ozzies pointed this out on Top Gear) and did surprisingly well in a climate of $4.11 a gallon gasoline and a crushing recession, and a complete lack of marketing.

Oh ya - IT'S NOT A G6 - STOP ASKING!!!

30K is nothing in the big picture... Buick sold over 56K cars in MAY in China alone!

The fact is GM needs to do something to make money and having cars with less than steller sales will not do it (remeber global picture) I hate to see the G8 go but it is not the car "to save GM" like some people think.

[Vertical]

I hate to see the G8 go but it is not the car "to save GM" like some people think.

No, but it does represent the quality, performance and soul that should embody other GM vehicles.

[Chewy]

Quality? Really? I must have gotten a lemon... I have anything BUT quality...

[Seattle09GT]

30K is nothing in the big picture... Buick sold over 56K cars in MAY in China alone!

The fact is GM needs to do something to make money and having cars with less than steller sales will not do it (remeber global picture) I hate to see the G8 go but it is not the car "to save GM" like some people think.

The G8 would never save GM, but the Zeta Platform is representative of what GM can do, and is a QUANTUM LEAP better than the 'ye old W-Body it replaced at Pontiac.

The W-Body was so outdated at the end of the line, the one thing it has going for it is all those years of evolution have made it extremely reliable, the Series III L67 V-6 is practically indestructible. But with 3.8 liters of displacement, 200 HP and 230 pound feet of torque it is a dinosaur and relatively inefficient compared to newer motors of the day.

I'm not defending the 30K sales target, I'm saying GM set a target, they got to 76% of that target in an industry down 40%, that's a "win" if you're keeping a scorecard.

[r33pwrd]

I'm not defending the 30K sales target, I'm saying GM set a target, they got to 76% of that target in an industry down 40%, that's a "win" if you're keeping a scorecard.


But a "win" does not pay the bills :(

I like the G8 I think it is a OK car.. but ONLY based on the price point (IE go drive a 3 series and you will see how cheap looking the G8 really is) but with the HP of the G8 and the price it is a hell of a deal but G8 and quality really dont come out of my mouth in the same sentence very often. (unless im talking drive terrain)

[Ktlplxm]

Comparing to a 3 series isn't comparing apples to apples though...Its not a BMW. If it were then it would be 50-60K and they could fix the little quality issues....and keep the drive "terrain"

['02 ws6]

I'd rather fix a G8 and its "non-quality" parts then foot the bill on ANY replacement part on a 3 series. Have your quality, it just keeps you in my rearview! :)

[Ktlplxm]

30K is nothing in the big picture... Buick sold over 56K cars in MAY in China alone!

The fact is GM needs to do something to make money and having cars with less than steller sales will not do it (remeber global picture) I hate to see the G8 go but it is not the car "to save GM" like some people think.

Buick sold that many cars in chine because that was the line GM decided to push there.. had they put chevrolet or pontiac in the same market the sales would have looked roughly the same. GM could make money if it weren't for the fact they have so many profitless vehicles on the lot (basically mandated by the government's fleet average policy). GM has been destined to fail for a while

[Seattle09GT]

But a "win" does not pay the bills :(

I like the G8 I think it is a OK car.. but ONLY based on the price point (IE go drive a 3 series and you will see how cheap looking the G8 really is) but with the HP of the G8 and the price it is a hell of a deal but G8 and quality really dont come out of my mouth in the same sentence very often. (unless im talking drive terrain)

Ahhh, but GM is making money on the G8's they sell. They lost money on every Grand Prix they sold. So in other words if GM just sold ONE G8, it already kicked the 100K+ Grand Prix sales they had in an average year.

A comparo to a 3-series isn't fair, there is a reason a 3-series can easily be equipped north of $40K, and not so for a G8. If GM were to invest another $500 per unit on improved paint process and interior materials, they would greatly increase the quality of the vehicle (and have to pass along a $2,000 premium to the buyer, still a bargain).

Here is a great example of what $100 extra dollars can buy you. Look at the interior of a G6 or Saturn Aura. Look at the interior of a Chevrolet Malibu. Lutz INSISTED on an extra $100 be spent on the interiors of the Malibu, and it shows. Economy of scale gets you a lot.

As far as reliable, do some research on the 5-series (which is a better comparo as they match more size to size). Consumer Reports rates it as below average for quality and does not recommend it. The 5-series scores a "73" according to Consumer Reports, the G8 scores a "75."

That says a lot right there. And at the end of the day given the choice of paying to repair a sick G8 or a sick BMW - well there is no question there!!!

[G8+6=fun]

Could some-one explain what cheap looking is on the G8... The interior looks ok all leather, heated seats, xm radio, dash that looks ok, Handles ok, I have not heard of to many braking down other then brakes being a little slow on stopping. Buick might sell good in china but we are in the USA and they are not selling here. The one's that reported on buying them were over 60 . The sales were down and Pontiac were up. Weather what name of Pontiac it was. We live here in the US and that is where we should base sales on. We depend on to much of foreign products and sales and that is what put us in the shape we are in now. I say we because we do not stand up enough. We buy to much foreign products. Now it is a little to late since we sold the US to China 60% and the rest of the foreign countries got the rest.

[Seattle09GT]

Buick sold that many cars in chine because that was the line GM decided to push there.. had they put chevrolet or pontiac in the same market the sales would have looked roughly the same. GM could make money if it weren't for the fact they have so many profitless vehicles on the lot (basically mandated by the government's fleet average policy). GM has been destined to fail for a while

Not true AT ALL.

Sun Yat Sen is considered the father of modern China. In the 1930's he drove a Buick. For the image conscious Chinese, driving a Buick is the ULTIMATE status symbol of success. The Chinese are crazy for Buicks not due to clever marketing, but to a strong perception. I know that is hard for us to understand, we associate the Buick with blue haired little old ladies or old men in fishing hats looking between the tank slit that is formed between the dashboard and the top of the steering wheel, with their hands in a death grip at the top of the steering wheel, slumped over, with the turn signal on for the last three miles driving at 15 MPH under the limit.

In China nothing says, "I am affluent and have made it to the upper middle class/rich," than driving a Buick.

Also, the Chinese aren't so quick to forget things like World War II and the atrocities that the Japanese inflicted on their population. Brands like Toyota, Honda, Lexus and Infiniti are shunned because of this perception.

VW use to be the number one brand, but their quality is CRAP, as a ton of global data shows. GM didn't start selling cars into China until 1999, so they also have a much higher perception of quality. And GM sales didn't explode until 2005 in China, which is hand in hand with a major improvement in product quality.

This is why GM will never sell Buick. A Chinese company would buy it in a heartbeat, and like it or not, in the next 20 to 25 years it will be the Chinese auto buyer that will be dictating what the other people in the world will be driving. We simply can't compete with their GDP growth, expanding population, and exploding car market.

[Seattle09GT]

Could some-one explain what cheap looking is on the G8... The interior looks ok all leather, heated seats, xm radio, dash that looks ok, Handles ok, I have not heard of to many braking down other then brakes being a little slow on stopping. Buick might sell good in china but we are in the USA and they are not selling here. The one's that reported on buying them were over 60 . The sales were down and Pontiac were up. Weather what name of Pontiac it was. We live here in the US and that is where we should base sales on. We depend on to much of foreign products and sales and that is what put us in the shape we are in now. I say we because we do not stand up enough. We buy to much foreign products. Now it is a little to late since we sold the US to China 60% and the rest of the foreign countries got the rest.

But you need to think globally now. That is the way it is. That is the only way GM is going to survive. More cars were sold in China in 2008 than the United States (or Japan). That gap is widening and we will never, ever, be the largest car economy in the world. GM was very wise to see five years ago that China is the future, the big problem is the clock ran out.

Sadly, right or wrong, the future here in the United States is cars like the Prius, the Fusion and the upcoming Volt. I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. That's why I ran out and bought a G8 before the clock ran out.

[r33pwrd]

. We buy to much foreign products. Now it is a little to late since we sold the US to China 60% and the rest of the foreign countries got the rest.


Hold one here... YOU DRIVE A FOREIGN CAR! At least one that is made by NON us hands in a non US factory. Import or not it is not an "American made" car in my eyes.

[r33pwrd]

Ahhh, but GM is making money on the G8's they sell. They lost money on every Grand Prix they sold. So in other words if GM just sold ONE G8, it already kicked the 100K+ Grand Prix sales they had in an average year.

A comparo to a 3-series isn't fair, there is a reason a 3-series can easily be equipped north of $40K, and not so for a G8. If GM were to invest another $500 per unit on improved paint process and interior materials, they would greatly increase the quality of the vehicle (and have to pass along a $2,000 premium to the buyer, still a bargain).

Here is a great example of what $100 extra dollars can buy you. Look at the interior of a G6 or Saturn Aura. Look at the interior of a Chevrolet Malibu. Lutz INSISTED on an extra $100 be spent on the interiors of the Malibu, and it shows. Economy of scale gets you a lot.

As far as reliable, do some research on the 5-series (which is a better comparo as they match more size to size). Consumer Reports rates it as below average for quality and does not recommend it. The 5-series scores a "73" according to Consumer Reports, the G8 scores a "75."

That says a lot right there. And at the end of the day given the choice of paying to repair a sick G8 or a sick BMW - well there is no question there!!!


I never said anything about reliability and I would love to see facts that state GM made money on the G8 or that they lost money on the Grand Prix??

[wreckwriter]

Fuck Buick, China, Fritz, and GM in the ass. If I were to lose this car tomorrow and no more G8s were to be had then GM would no longer have a car that interests me. I'll go Ford or Dodge next I guess.

[Gris]

Yeah, FUCK FRITZ!!! (Sorry, but I feel a little better now).

[Seattle09GT]

I never said anything about reliability and I would love to see facts that state GM made money on the G8 or that they lost money on the Grand Prix??

Well that's why GM is keeping Buick and GMC -- Fritz has said on the record on April 17, 2009, GMC and Buick are profitable, Pontiac was not.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6521999/car-news/according-to-fritz-hummer-sale-likely-soon-buick-gmc-profitable/index.html

If you have further argument, take it up with Fritz.

[Seattle09GT]

Fuck Buick, China, Fritz, and GM in the ass. If I were to lose this car tomorrow and no more G8s were to be had then GM would no longer have a car that interests me. I'll go Ford or Dodge next I guess.

And here I agree with you. I have kids so a two door Camaro isn't practical for me, despite being very interesting. If my G8 blew up a year from now I'd be in major trouble on what to get as a replacement, unless Acura takes the complete amount of ass they have designed into the bodies of their cars this year. The TL looks like it freakin' has a knight's shield as a radiator grille on it. They could sell a 25 foot lance as optional equipment.

[r33pwrd]

Well that's why GM is keeping Buick and GMC -- Fritz has said on the record on April 17, 2009, GMC and Buick are profitable, Pontiac was not.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6521999/car-news/according-to-fritz-hummer-sale-likely-soon-buick-gmc-profitable/index.html

If you have further argument, take it up with Fritz.

I must be blind because I dont see where it says they lost money on 100K grand prix's?? and are making money on the G8?

[Seattle09GT]

I must be blind because I dont see where it says they lost money on 100K grand prix's?? and are making money on the G8?

http://ceoworld.biz/ceo/2009/04/28/gm-to-shed-21000-jobs-phasing-out-pontiac/

Statement attributable to Susan Docherty, GM North American Vice President, Buick-Pontiac-GMC:

“Anyone who has been associated with the Pontiac brand knows that this was a difficult decision. Pontiac has had a rich and storied history, but unfortunately, despite the efforts of all concerned, the brand has been unprofitable over the past several years. We had hoped in our February 17 Viability Plan to convert Pontiac to a niche brand within the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel.

However, the Viability Plan as submitted was not acceptable.

I'm done on this issue beyond this post, suggest you do a Google search for Fritz Henderson Pontiac unprofitable and spend a couple of hours reading. General Motors didn't make a penny on the Generation VII Pontiac Grand Prix.

Period.

More links...

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/04/pontiacthe-excitement-has-faded-from-the-line-up.html

http://www.pontiac.com/owners/pontiac-discontinued-statement/

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/19/BUGENCB31I1.DTL&type=business

[Purf]

Im sorry guys but time for a reality check... the G8 has not sold well in the states plain and simple. Why keep a car that does not sell well?? If anything the G6 was the ONLY car Pontiac has that sells well, the G8 was a failure from a sales standpoint. Dont get me wrong I love the car and think It should sell better but the days of V8's is over for the time being (unless its in a Truck or a sports car) everyone be happy you have a G8 or go buy one before it to late and stop the fucking crying!


So you're saying that the G8 GXP is not a sports car? Not sure I agree. Also, I think the issue with the G8 is QUALITY, not quantity. This is where the U.S. car companies are going to get killed with Obama running things by insisting on QUANTITY. I'd rather see GM try to sell quality cars as Caddys or Potiacs (maybe Buicks) and sell most of the Chevys as quantity. Obama will make GM sell Prius putt-putt copycat cars that will never compete with Toyota. The U.S. car companies have to change, but that change should be to what they do BEST (i.e., build QUALITY cars like the Cadillac SRX or CTS or Pontiac G8). Additionally, a CAR GUY should run GM, not Ed Whitacre, formerly of AT&T. I own an SRX and G8 GXP, for the record, in addition to a 1967 Pontiac GTO. That's my two cents.

[PaFromFL]

Not true AT ALL.
This is why GM will never sell Buick. A Chinese company would buy it in a heartbeat, and like it or not, in the next 20 to 25 years it will be the Chinese auto buyer that will be dictating what the other people in the world will be driving.
So why not make Buick a Chinese specific brand and base it on the Cadillac? Discontinue unpopular Buick in this country and bring back Pontiac. If you can rebadge a Holden as a Pontiac, Chevrolet, and Vauxhall in different countries, you should be able to rebadge a US Cadillac (or Pontiac) as a China Buick.

[r33pwrd]

So you're saying that the G8 GXP is not a sports car? Not sure I agree

I consider the GXP a sport sedan not a sports car.

[wreckwriter]

So you're saying that the G8 GXP is not a sports car? Not sure I agree. Also, I think the issue with the G8 is QUALITY, not quantity. This is where the U.S. car companies are going to get killed with Obama running things by insisting on QUANTITY. I'd rather see GM try to sell quality cars as Caddys or Potiacs (maybe Buicks) and sell most of the Chevys as quantity. Obama will make GM sell Prius putt-putt copycat cars that will never compete with Toyota. The U.S. car companies have to change, but that change should be to what they do BEST (i.e., build QUALITY cars like the Cadillac SRX or CTS or Pontiac G8). Additionally, a CAR GUY should run GM, not Ed Whitacre, formerly of AT&T. I own an SRX and G8 GXP, for the record, in addition to a 1967 Pontiac GTO. That's my two cents.

Yea, its all Obama's fault. Where do you people get this bullshit? Do you really think it would all be different if McCain had been elected?

[r33pwrd]

Yea, its all Obama's fault. Where do you people get this bullshit? Do you really think it would all be different if McCain had been elected?

I hate Obama and I agree with you %100....

[Panzer Leader]

WTF LOGIC IS ALL OF THIS? So what the hell does Pontiac being unprofitable do with rebadging the G8 as a BUICK or CHEVY? IT's ALL BS!

[Seattle09GT]

WTF LOGIC IS ALL OF THIS? So what the hell does Pontiac being unprofitable do with rebadging the G8 as a BUICK or CHEVY? IT's ALL BS!

Nothing, the thread got jacked into a different discussion. Agreed its all bullshit, agreed wouldn't be different with McCain in White House, agreed not a fan of Obama, agreed Buick is important in China, agreed it sucks dead donkey balls that the Zeta Platform is basically dead in North America.

That should about cover it.

[Panzer Leader]

Seems I remember they said GM spent 5 billion developing the zeta platform. Dunno, CRS!
:p Oh really? What did they really get for it? A front suspension that we know is not the best. AC problems, rear suspension problems, rattles and creaks. Five Billion Dollars, give me a break.

[r33pwrd]

http://ceoworld.biz/ceo/2009/04/28/gm-to-shed-21000-jobs-phasing-out-pontiac/

Statement attributable to Susan Docherty, GM North American Vice President, Buick-Pontiac-GMC:

“Anyone who has been associated with the Pontiac brand knows that this was a difficult decision. Pontiac has had a rich and storied history, but unfortunately, despite the efforts of all concerned, the brand has been unprofitable over the past several years. We had hoped in our February 17 Viability Plan to convert Pontiac to a niche brand within the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel.

However, the Viability Plan as submitted was not acceptable.

I'm done on this issue beyond this post, suggest you do a Google search for Fritz Henderson Pontiac unprofitable and spend a couple of hours reading. General Motors didn't make a penny on the Generation VII Pontiac Grand Prix.

Period.

More links...

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/04/pontiacthe-excitement-has-faded-from-the-line-up.html

http://www.pontiac.com/owners/pontiac-discontinued-statement/

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/19/BUGENCB31I1.DTL&type=business

spent houses searching stillnothing about the G8 be a "profitable car" ot the grand prix not being profitable :)

[r33pwrd]

Oh really? What did they really get for it? A front suspension that we know is not the best. AC problems, rear suspension problems, rattles and creaks. Five Billion Dollars, give me a break.

pretty sure Gm is like all huge companies it take them 20000000X the amount of money to do anything than a normal person could do it for :(

[VenomG8]

talked to a salesman, said Pontiac being gone is still up in the air... Who names their kid "Fritz"?

[VenomG8]

haha 5 billion? Yeah I just spent 5 billion trying to figure out what you were smoking and where to get it

[wreckwriter]

talked to a salesman, said Pontiac being gone is still up in the air... Who names their kid "Fritz"?

A good Irish name, not. Sometimes short for Frederick...

[Panzer Leader]

I know, I know, "FRITZ THE CAT." I am now so impressed with the Engineering, Design, Marketing, that I could just shit! MBAs, Lawyers, Engineers, Manufactuers these people are a real trip (And not to OZ). Top heavy management, tech dept. driven by the ever popular CPAs and exhorbant salaries, perks and bonuses. What a business model for sucess.

[r33pwrd]

I know, I know, "FRITZ THE CAT." I am now so impressed with the Engineering, Design, Marketing, that I could just shit! MBAs, Lawyers, Engineers, Manufactuers these people are a real trip (And not to OZ). Top heavy management, tech dept. driven by the ever popular CPAs and exhorbant salaries, perks and bonuses. What a business model for sucess.

They got that business model from Countrywide and Freddie Mac :poof:

[bobyoung]

But that isn't really true.

GM's sales target for the G8 for the first 12 months was 30K units.

During that time Pontiac sales plunged about 60%, the entire auto industry collapsed by 40%, yet GM sold about 23K G8s, about 76% of target. That is damn impressive given the climate, and given that from September to November unless you were Jesus from a credit stand point, it was almost impossible to get a new car loan.

The G8 isn't a sales failure (the Ozzies pointed this out on Top Gear) and did surprisingly well in a climate of $4.11 a gallon gasoline and a crushing recession, and a complete lack of marketing.

Oh ya - IT'S NOT A G6 - STOP ASKING!!!

Exactly if the climate had been good the car would have gone through the roof, it was time, you could feel it. Who knows what's going to happen now but I think this Fritz is too stupid to try the G8 again, we're going to see all putt-putt cars from GM, those of us who like fast V8 rear wheel drive cars are probably going to have to pay through the nose in 10 years for a new one.

[bobyoung]

A good Irish name, not. Sometimes short for Frederick...

I think Fritz is a German name that means "I am a pussy".

[GeorgeInNePa]

Yea, its all Obama's fault. Where do you people get this bullshit? Do you really think it would all be different if McCain had been elected?

tsk, tsk, tsk...


Politics? On my forum?


;)

[HoldenMan21]

I was down at my dealership today, yes they are open on Saturdays. In Canada we only got about 2500 G8 total ...the GT's that are left are selling for more than $40,000US ! wow !

It's kinda dumb by GM will not rebadge the G8 since it's already for sale in South Africa and the Middle East as a Chevy Lumina, they just have to ship them to America that's all ! What would people rather have ... the current Chevy Impala or the marvelous G8/Lumina SS ?? So it means hang on to your G8 guys ...we are a dying breed !

http://www.chevrolet.co.za/content_data/LAAM/ZA/en/GBPZA/001/models/1F/gallery.html

[bobyoung]

The current Impala is an insult to the name. Impala used to make SS 396, and SS 427 Impalas available with 4 speeds, posi, etc., now those were cars.

[GT G8]

Bullshit.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I talked with a guy at a car show yesterday that is pretty high up at Powertrain (here in Toledo which builds our trannies). He said that GM has changed on a few dealers closing, and they have a year to actually decide the fate of Pontiac, and the G8. After checking Tigger out he was even more disappointed in what the higher ups have done to GM. He doesn't believe the G8 will die despite what Fritz is saying. Oh, and the only reason Buick survived is because of the amount of sales done in China, it has nothing to do with U.S. demand for the car.

[GotMyG8V8]

It's really funny, i'm seeing commercials on tv talking about PONTIAC Buick GMC dealerships advertising Solid Security, saying they aren't going anywhere. This would appear to be false advertising to a degree if Pontiac isn't going to be there next year, wouldn't it?

[-Ray-]

I talked with a guy at a car show yesterday that is pretty high up at Powertrain (here in Toledo which builds our trannies). He said that GM has changed on a few dealers closing, and they have a year to actually decide the fate of Pontiac, and the G8. After checking Tigger out he was even more disappointed in what the higher ups have done to GM. He doesn't believe the G8 will die despite what Fritz is saying. Oh, and the only reason Buick survived is because of the amount of sales done in China, it has nothing to do with U.S. demand for the car.

Jay, I think one of the problems we have facing us with the G8, is this sudden administrations desire to have vehicles made in America. Now, this is just my opinion and thoughts. It is in no way directed to start any political discussion.

[Panzer Leader]

I think Fritz is a German name that means "I am a pussy".

YES INDEED! The point to understand is that GM (Government General Motors or General Government Motors) operates in a chaotic enviroment. Usually in these situations panic becomes the steering force. Run, Left, Go Right, Up the Middle, and usually all taking place at the same time. Hopefully, the new "CAR CZAR" with his education (in whatever) and Extensive Experience (in whatever) will quickly grasp the helm. Realizing of course that you must remember to turn-the-key. Rallying management, the UAW, the Banks, and of course the buying public, with quality cars that meet the high levels engineering, design, and proudly produced, Management, government, UAW and shareholders, all grasping hands and acknowleging "We Are Fucked."

[GeorgeInNePa]

Jay, I think one of the problems we have facing us with the G8, is this sudden administrations desire to have vehicles made in America. Now, this is just my opinion and thoughts. It is in no way directed to start any political discussion.

It is almost impossible to discuss what the government is pushing without bringing politics into it.

The underlying politics are the issue.

[Seattle09GT]

It is almost impossible to discuss what the government is pushing without bringing politics into it.

The underlying politics are the issue.

Agreed.

And here is a terrifying fact. A full half of the government's automotive committee, doesn't even own a car. :(

[chiller2484]

I was down at my dealership today, yes they are open on Saturdays. In Canada we only got about 2500 G8 total ...the GT's that are left are selling for more than $40,000US ! wow !

It's kinda dumb by GM will not rebadge the G8 since it's already for sale in South Africa and the Middle East as a Chevy Lumina, they just have to ship them to America that's all ! What would people rather have ... the current Chevy Impala or the marvelous G8/Lumina SS ?? So it means hang on to your G8 guys ...we are a dying breed !

http://www.chevrolet.co.za/content_data/LAAM/ZA/en/GBPZA/001/models/1F/gallery.html

I think that's a brilliant idea. Why not bring the Chevy Lumina back? Looking at those pictures, I'd sure as hell buy one. Get rid of the POS Malibu and bring back the lumina.

[Seattle09GT]

So on Sunday I went to the all Pontiac car show in Puyallup, Washington as part of the annual Meeker Days street fair they do. I did not enter my car, went to see some of my old friends in the Pontiac Grand Prix club and spend quality time with my daughter at the fair.

After seeing the Grand Prixs my daughter and I walked to a McDonalds and were walking back to the fair (just a few blocks). As we came back there was a crowd of at least 20 around my G8, looking, talking, peering into the windows.

General Motors has so fucked up and I have lots of hand print smudges to clean up.

[Seattle09GT]

I think that's a brilliant idea. Why not bring the Chevy Lumina back? Looking at those pictures, I'd sure as hell buy one. Get rid of the POS Malibu and bring back the lumina.

I should have never clicked that link.

Not only do they get Bluetooth, but you can get a Lumina SS in screaming yellow.

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!

God General Motors. You suck!

[HoldenMan21]

GM could also bring them from the UK witch would be awesome to have the VXR8

and if you wanna see how it goes ...
BMW 5series -VS- Audi A6 -VS- Mercedes E-class they are pretty nice cars, but they are not REAAAALLLY in the same league as the BIG V8 !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB-qxAqNnsY


And we could get the HSV Clubsport R8 ... excuse my french but d@mn ... What a nice car ...did you hear the sound of the supercharger !!!!

Walkinshaw R8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA-11m7YFyg

Walkinshaw Performance website

http://www.walkinshawperformance.com.au/wp/2008/aus/

[bobyoung]

I should have never clicked that link.

Not only do they get Bluetooth, but you can get a Lumina SS in screaming yellow.

AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!

God General Motors. You suck!

Those things are ugly as sin.

[Hessian]

Hmmm Fritz isn't a fan of rebadging... wonder why he kept GMC around then?

[fiveoh]

"Henderson seemed more positive about the automaker's ability to "continue to differentiate" the GMC brand versus Chevrolet. "Take a look at the new Chevrolet Equinox and the GMC Terrain, for example," Henderson wrote."

:nud: :spank: The difference being different grills and different chrome trim? Seriously there is rarely any big difference between GMC and chevy.

[jimmyban]

GM

And we could get the HSV Clubsport R8 ... excuse my french but d@mn ... What a nice car ...did you hear the sound of the supercharger !!!!

Walkinshaw R8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA-11m7YFyg



Oh my! That R8 is an awesome vehicle!

[JMS]

Fuck Buick, China, Fritz, and GM in the ass. If I were to lose this car tomorrow and no more G8s were to be had then GM would no longer have a car that interests me. I'll go Ford or Dodge next I guess.


I agree....and I have ALWAYS been a GM fan....