Nitrogen Gas In Tires

[Panzer Leader]

OK Charlie what do you think of nitrogen replacement? My dealer said that when checking Pressure with nitrogen pressure should be 10% higher than what is called for on the door jam. Do you agree? Reason I asked that when I picked up the car the pressure reading on the TPMS (Yes they did the TSB today also on the TPMS) was like 44 front 49 rear. i will do a cold check in the A.M. tomorrow. Thanks for any help/suggestions. BTW Dealer is getting washers from Pedders to do the front alignment. GM Tech told dealer that GM has GM washers BUT GM parts says no. Go figure, so they are getting the Pedders.

[Blackrider]

I've never heard of that, pressure is pressure your tires don't know the difference. I would confirm the TPMS with a conventional gauge and lower to the recommended pressure.

[-Ray-]

I've read plenty on nitrogen and haven't seen anything regarding higher pressures being necessary.
Ask them why they are telling you that.

[Devilish34]

I've read plenty on nitrogen and haven't seen anything regarding higher pressures being necessary.
Ask them why they are telling you that.

Yes please do why would you have to raise the pressure?
It's not like you changed anything except for making your
wallet a little lighter.

[GeorgeInNePa]

I've read plenty on nitrogen and haven't seen anything regarding higher pressures being necessary.
Ask them why they are telling you that.

Maybe they are used to having a "cold" pressure and a "hot" pressure they are trying to simulate the "hot"?

IDK

[netmand]

First of all it's a waste to use nitrogen for your daily driver. Daily driving entails too many varying conditions in which to target specific pressures. The sticker on the door lists tires pressures as a guide more than an exact target. So close is good, just don't be way off or over the maximum rating on the tire itself.

But what he said is kinda true... I crew for a road race team;
Nitrogen doesn't expand as much as air when heated. We occasionally use pure nitrogen in our race car tires when an air compressor wasn't around (e.g. Lime Rock). We keep different pressure references for nitorgen (vs. air) as it does make a difference. For example, the optimum pressure for the Hoosier race tires we were using is 40. Speaking generally, when we use air we adjust pressures around 32-34 cold. When using nitrogen in the tires we adjust pressures higher; around 34-36 cold. Additionally, These pressures are also adjusted for ambient air temp, track temp, weather conditions, track location, etc.

The point is; daily driving doesn't yield consistant tire pressures because generally we don't drive the same route in the same weather for the same amount of time. So putting in nitrogen to lessen the difference in cold and warm tire temps is a waste of money... especially for only a 2-3psi difference.

[Mav]

Agreed with the above. GM doesn't even want dealers to advertise nitrogen deals because it's a scam.

[wreckwriter]

Aircraft use nitrogen so there are benefits. Is it worth the cost and hassle in a daily driver? No way.

[fredl11]

Aircraft use nitrogen so there are benefits. Is it worth the cost and hassle in a daily driver? No way.

I did it on the C6 and it became a major pain in the REAR!! Go to dealer, wait for them to get around to it. C6 is now air!!

[Blackrider]

Nitrogen is not a scam, it won't seep out past the bead nearly as fast as air. Also, is causes less corrosion on the inside of the rim and bead, helping with sealing.

I think Nitrogen is a good option for the maintenance challenged person because it requiers less attention than air fill tires, most places around here charge a one time 20 dollar fee, if you ever need to have your tires refilled you can just bring your car in and they'll refill it free of charge.

If there is any questionable effects of Nitrogen filled tires its that it will improve fuel economy. The increase in fuel economy comes from Nitrogens ability to hold pressure better than air, not really an issue for people who conduct regular maintenance on their car.

[conipc]

May not be a scam, but you have to always top up with nitrogen if you fill with it....

[wreckwriter]

May not be a scam, but you have to always top up with nitrogen if you fill with it....

Yup, hassle for sure. I wouldn't mess with it.

[confused2much]

What would happen if you had nitrogen to start and top it off with air?

[wreckwriter]

What would happen if you had nitrogen to start and top it off with air?

Lose whatever benefit you got from the nitrogen.

[confused2much]

That's what I figured. Thanks.

[Panzer Leader]

Well thanks for the info. Varying ideas to say the least.............

[wreckwriter]

Well thanks for the info. Varying ideas to say the least.............

Yea some variation but I don't think anyone said they would do it.....

[TxNessie84]

From GM:

...the realized benefits to our customer of inflating their tires with purified nitrogen are expected to be minimal.

http://www.gmfleet.com/pdf/TechTip_0106_TiresNitrogenGas.pdf

I would say not worth it

[todds87ss]

Nitrogen is not a scam, it won't seep out past the bead nearly as fast as air. Also, is causes less corrosion on the inside of the rim and bead, helping with sealing.

I think Nitrogen is a good option for the maintenance challenged person because it requiers less attention than air fill tires, most places around here charge a one time 20 dollar fee, if you ever need to have your tires refilled you can just bring your car in and they'll refill it free of charge.

If there is any questionable effects of Nitrogen filled tires its that it will improve fuel economy. The increase in fuel economy comes from Nitrogens ability to hold pressure better than air, not really an issue for people who conduct regular maintenance on their car.


Since regular air is almost 80% nitrogen, and I have never seen corrosion on the inside of a wheel (except my lawn tractor from sitting with flats for too long!) I would also say that The benefits of nitrogen are only seen at the high end race track, with only trouble on the street. One added concern, you MUST inform your tire replacement guy if nitrogen is used. There is a very minimal chance of asphyxiation (SP?) on replacement of tire. Safety First!

[GRRRR8]

Sorry for delay! Nitrogen is much more stable to temperature changes then air. Air has moisture that causes dry rotting. When Shell 1st came out with the nitrogen for tires, I mounted a new set of D40s for my S-truck and filled them up. 9 months later they still had 35 psi!! It does work. You can put regular air in your tires, it just defeats the purpose. Airplanes in most cases use nitrogen for the pressure stability as well.

[Blackrider]

Since regular air is almost 80% nitrogen, and I have never seen corrosion on the inside of a wheel (except my lawn tractor from sitting with flats for too long!) I would also say that The benefits of nitrogen are only seen at the high end race track, with only trouble on the street. One added concern, you MUST inform your tire replacement guy if nitrogen is used. There is a very minimal chance of asphyxiation (SP?) on replacement of tire. Safety First!

The fact that the atmosphere is 78% nitrogen is irrelevant, its the other 20% Oxygen that causes the issues. Oxygen + metel = corrosion, throw in some moisture in an enclosed environment and you're damn rights you'll eventually see corrosion. When your tires are filled with Nitrogen they should be marked, sometimes with green caps or o rings.

[Rayvan]

The fact that the atmosphere is 78% nitrogen is irrelevant, its the other 20% Oxygen that causes the issues. Oxygen + metel = corrosion, throw in some moisture in an enclosed environment and you're damn rights you'll eventually see corrosion. When your tires are filled with Nitrogen they should be marked, sometimes with green caps or o rings.

Hmm. I can accept that they don't lose pressure as fast however, I don't think I'd quit checking my tires even if I did have nitrogen in them. I mean, N2won't keep you from running over nails. Plus my tire-chuck checks pressure at the same time as it fills, so It's not like it's ever going to save me any time. G8 is nice. It checks itself!

I get the use of it in aircraft though; less pressure gain is nice if you're exceeing 35,000 feet., and in racing; better heat-stability as sliding tires around for hours-on-end tends to heat them up far more than a street-driven car ever would, a racer needs better consistency over time.

But, oxydation? I don't know. This part just seems like an answer to a question no-one was asking. What did we all do prior to this? Has anyone ever hear anyone say, "Oh god all my wheel's interiors are oxidized AGAIN!!!!"

I always watch the tire-guys mount my tires/wheels (tire-guys don't scratch wheels if you watch them), and I've never seen oxydation or rim-corrosion in in any of my own cars wheels, and tires, and I've owned my Firebird for over 20 years. They look nice and shiny inside, just like new!

They always ask, I always chuckle as I say "no thanks."

[GRRRR8]

The corrosion was more of an issue with steel wheels.

[Blackrider]

Hmm. I can accept that they don't lose pressure as fast however, I don't think I'd quit checking my tires even if I did have nitrogen in them. I mean, N2won't keep you from running over nails. Plus my tire-chuck checks pressure at the same time as it fills, so It's not like it's ever going to save me any time. G8 is nice. It checks itself!

I get the use of it in aircraft though; less pressure gain is nice if you're exceeing 35,000 feet., and in racing; better heat-stability as sliding tires around for hours-on-end tends to heat them up far more than a street-driven car ever would, a racer needs better consistency over time.

But, oxydation? I don't know. This part just seems like an answer to a question no-one was asking. What did we all do prior to this? Has anyone ever hear anyone say, "Oh god all my wheel's interiors are oxidized AGAIN!!!!"

I always watch the tire-guys mount my tires/wheels (tire-guys don't scratch wheels if you watch them), and I've never seen oxydation or rim-corrosion in in any of my own cars wheels, and tires, and I've owned my Firebird for over 20 years. They look nice and shiny inside, just like new!

They always ask, I always chuckle as I say "no thanks."


What did we do before Nitrogen? we used air, just like you would pump the brakes before ABS was invented, its just improving a method.

As Charlie said, its more of a problem on steel rims however, it can happen on Alumminum rims aswell. My 01 Grand Am rims would bubble right at the lip because water would get stuck there, and when I mounted new tires on them the insides where gross probably because I used heavly moisture contaminated air at one point. Its the oxidation along the bead surface that causes problems. I've mounted lots of tires and you can see and feel the dirt and corrosion on the bead surface. Its nothing a quick pass with a grinder can't slove, but its still corrosion.

My original point was Nitrogen filled tires are not compleatly usless, people who are not as maintanance minded as most of us are, would probably notice a benifit from Nitrogen. For the simple fact that it holds pressure more reliably and we all know under inflated tires can cost you in the long run, both MPG and the tires themselfs.

I myself don't run Nitrogen for the simple fact that I also adjust my tire pressure for the type of driving I'm going to be doing... AAAANNND we have a TPMS. :)

[GM_Fan]

I have Nitrogen in my tires.

Dealer did it for free so I didn't care.

[Panzer Leader]

OK got it. As you can tell from my other posts concerning the TPMS issue I do maintenance on my vehicle. Yes I do check the pressure the old fashion way with a guage. That said let me also explain that nitrogen has its positives as stated here. My biggest issue was keeping the tires cooler thus keeping the pressure stabilized and not with eratic swings. Hopefully adding in some measure to stability/handling on the road. Thanks for all the input on the topic. Next, does the Toranado Air Twirler for the air intake really work? I see it on TV all the time. Also, how about the electric thing on the fuel line to break down the O2 in the gasoline? Next will be the Once -A-Year car wax. Some many improvements and so little time. Say it ain't so.

[johnbell2]

More of an issue in aircraft applications, especially large aircraft. That rubber gets hot on a jet liner when taking off or landing, which means volatile gasses can be given off from the inner tire lining. Hot synthetic rubber vapor plus too much O2 under pressure ==> kaboom.

As I recall large aircraft spec is no more than 5% O2 in a tire if pure N2 isn't available, for the above reason.

No need to worry about this in a car unless racing at speed for extended periods of time (e.g. Indy CART, F1 or similar)

(former aerospace engineer, run computers for a living now)

[Panzer Leader]

OK, I have decided against the nitrogen and go with hydrogen in the tires. But I really have to ask this, what is it with Shell and putting nitrogen in the gas? Save us Charlie from ourselves.

[todds87ss]

I myself don't run Nitrogen for the simple fact that I also adjust my tire pressure for the type of driving I'm going to be doing... AAAANNND we have a TPMS. :)


This is the best arguement against N2 use...Track days!:woohoo:

[bobyoung]

I bought new tires for one of my Roadmonsters last year and they put nitrogen in, the pressure seems to stay constant much longer than air. I've only been back once when I let out too much by mistake one time. I was skeptical at first but surprised by how long it lasts.