torque converter or taller gears

[grandmacpubah]

so I've been doing my research as much as possible (search is my friend) and this is what I've gleaned so far.

torque convertor will help me stall better, for a better launch, drive ability is somewhat affected, city MPG will go down.

taller gears...run me at a higher rpm (i'm thinking of doing 3.45), basically get me there quicker, highway mileage will suffer, drive ability is the same.

So further questions I have...

at some point I will do a cam...is there a benefit of going with either for a cam?

I mostly do city driving

I will be going to the track, but I'll be doing more street racing the track racing...(maybe if the track was closer than 2 hours it would be different lol)

Thanks for any input

[r33pwrd]

I will be doing all of the above :)

[ddcook08]

Get the converter and some tires.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I'm going to start with the converter (ordered today) and possibly go to the gears next. I really didn't want to go the converter route but I can no longer deny the benefits of one at the strip.
BlackBerry8703e/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104

[Ktlplxm]

You have the terminology wrong. a taller gear is a numerically lower gear ratio, ie making you turn less rpm. You want a shorter gear set. I personally don't see the benefit of a stall especially if you are going to primarily drive around tonw, and plan on adding power.

[grandmacpubah]

You have the terminology wrong. a taller gear is a numerically lower gear ratio, ie making you turn less rpm. You want a shorter gear set. I personally don't see the benefit of a stall especially if you are going to primarily drive around tonw, and plan on adding power.

haha kind of like wire... 22 gauge is smaller than 18 gauge. ;) Thanks for clearing that up. I'm kind of with you so far on the shorter gears because I won't be going to the strip much.

Is it true the converter affects daily drive ability?

[GeorgeInNePa]

I will be doing all of the above :)

same

[Devilish34]

You have the terminology wrong. a taller gear is a numerically lower gear ratio, ie making you turn less rpm. You want a shorter gear set. I personally don't see the benefit of a stall especially if you are going to primarily drive around tonw, and plan on adding power.

Ya beat me to the tall and short but I'm going for the shorter gears and keeping the factory stall.

[wreckwriter]

Is it true the converter affects daily drive ability?

Not really, unless you go too high. 3200 or less you won't notice until you nail it from a dig.

Speaking as someone who has both, the gear was a helluva lot less trouble for me. I know my experience wasn't typical but I'm pretty sour on converters.

[Steve]

I'm running a 2800rpm stall and barely notice it

[MoMorg]

If you do a cam do the converter. These computers do a great job of idle control, but these converters are so tight, the car just wants to run away if you raise the idle at all. I have my car set to a 725 rpm idle and when you let off the brake it just wants to run. Also you really need that converter to get past the lazy part of the powerband once you add the cam. It will just give the car a more complete feel. With our steep first gear ratio it is already equivalent of running a 3.73 gear in an old A4 car.

[ddcook08]

You have the terminology wrong. a taller gear is a numerically lower gear ratio, ie making you turn less rpm. You want a shorter gear set. I personally don't see the benefit of a stall especially if you are going to primarily drive around tonw, and plan on adding power.

He mentioned street racing, which is why I recommended the converter first. A yank 3200 or PI 2800 should be ideal for you as far as streetability is concerned.

[grandmacpubah]

I've tried to get an idea of what people are talking about when they mention drive ability with the converter...what are people really referring to? A real touch throttle?

[Devilish34]

I'm guessing lag and at initial start from a stop ??? reduced mpg

3200 stall needs to make that many revolutions to get the car moving....
I think thats right

[ddcook08]

I've heard the Yank 3200 and PI 2800 is pretty tight, not too far from stock. So you should get movement without much lag. Right George?

[SRG963]

should have been a poll :)

If you got it, do both IMO.

[ddcook08]

should have been a poll :)

If you got it, do both IMO.

:charlie3:

[SRG963]

:charlie3:

:pee:

[fiveoh]

I've tried to get an idea of what people are talking about when they mention drive ability with the converter...what are people really referring to? A real touch throttle?

I think some cars have tune issues with the converter locking and unlocking properly and have to get it tuned. Technically it will be a "less" touchy throttle as it will "slip" a little when you give it gas not moving as much for the same amount of throttle unless u nail it. I guess if you arent used to it you could think you need to give it a lot more throttle and push it really far and it will take off on you. I have a 3200 stall in my mustang and love it. Night and day difference. I dropped .5 off my 1/4 time with it on street tires. I would love to get one for the g8 but want to keep my tranny warranty intact. Cant have everything. :(

Edit: I did 4:10 gear and stall on the stang. The gears first then the converter after. I wish I would have done it the other way around. My vote is for converter.

[Steve]

Beforehand with the stock converter i noticed the following (no E-Brake in each scenario):
A) Sit Parked in 'D' , foot on brake, Let go of the brake and the car would start rolling forward.
B) Parked Uphill in 'D', let go of brake and car would just sit there and easily drive off with just a little gas.
C) Freeway Driving - Flooring it; RPMS rise gradually as you speed up.

After getting the converter:
A) Let go of the brake and the car just sits there. Give a little gas - not much happens, give it a little more gas, car starts moving slowly
B) Parked uphill (not very steep), let go of brake and you start rolling backwards (funny when that first happens when you're not used to it ;) ) - takes a lot more rpms to get the car moving forward.
C) Floor it, RPMS almost instanly Jump to Stall RPMs and then you really start going :)

That's what I think what most people are talking about when they're talking driveability etc so the fact that you need MORE throttle to initially get rolling (but then when you do get going you're GOING ;) )

[grandmacpubah]

Great info..I'm getting how it works now. So what I'm gathering is even if you don't use it to stall/launch...just mashing the gas gets you going faster. Is that accurate?

[Blackdevil77]

hmmm.... I'm gonna stick with shorter gears in the rear then. While "daily driving," I enjoy not going over 2k rpms. I don't wanna have to get to 3k or more to get moving.

[Steve]

You don't have to get up to 3k to even get moving but you'll definitely be giving it more gas than normal. Before I started rolling at 700 rpm or so, now probably more like 1200-1500

Mashing the gas lets the RPMs jump up higher than normal so that when it starts sending all that out the rear you're already in that sweet spot in the powerband . I cruise down the freeway at 1500 rpm all the time and haven't regretted my 2800 stall one bit

[GeorgeInNePa]

I'm guessing lag and at initial start from a stop ??? reduced mpg

3200 stall needs to make that many revolutions to get the car moving....
I think thats right

Not quite. I can pull out of a parking space at 1000 or 1200rpm. My drive way is uphill from the house to the road, I don't need to enter the road at 3200rpm. ;)


I've heard the Yank 3200 and PI 2800 is pretty tight, not too far from stock. So you should get movement without much lag. Right George?

Keep in mind this is the first street car that I've had with a non-stock converter.

I like it, I have no problems at low speed. I like that it doesn't try to creep forward by itself, but it does give you a slight "trans slipping" sound as you pull out.

[-Ray-]

I say torque converter.
I can destroy the back tires now. I have a Circle D and I blame Steve for the condition of my rear tires, well, what's left of them.
I cruise through town at 2200 rpm's. I just set the rpms and let it go. I can cruise or I can scare grand ma, my choice.

[bigwillys58]

Not quite. I can pull out of a parking space at 1000 or 1200rpm. My drive way is uphill from the house to the road, I don't need to enter the road at 3200rpm. ;)

exactally. even with my 3600 stall normal (keepin with traffic) taking off from a stop light is still only around 2500 to 2700rpm. IMHO the converter was well worth the money. makes the car a lot more fun to drive too. cant speak for the gears, though i do know it made quite a difference goin from 3.73s to 4.10s in my yellow truck...

[Devilish34]

Not quite. I can pull out of a parking space at 1000 or 1200rpm. My drive way is uphill from the house to the road, I don't need to enter the road at 3200rpm. ;)


Thats gotta be fun in the rain ;)

[syP]

i was gonna start with 3.45 gear.. but then charlie talked me into a 3200 stall first, see how i like it.. then get gears.

[deputycrawford]

Do the converter first. The engines torque peak is at 4400 rpms and the converter flashes at 1200 rpms. WAY OFF in my opinion. The closer you start to your torque peak the better the car will feel.
The converters are also much smaller than the originals. That means the vane angles can be set at a positive angle. That makes a very efficient converter. Part throttle will be less effected. It should drive very close to a stock vehicle, after a tune to stop cruise speed lock up issues. It will probably be the biggest single part gain that you could do to this particular car. I think I have explained it correctly.
The right converter makes you feel like the king of the road. You will have to practice throttle amounts to get your fastest take off but it will all be worth it. That is the very first mod I plan for my driveline. The right converter is magic.


Jerry

[It's A G8!]

I would like a converter in the future but I'm worried of it not feeling stock'ish. My wife drives the car more than I do and she is not the race type driver.I would be worried about her daily commutes.

[GRRRR8]

Just get a 2800 and she will hardly notice........But you will! :)

[It's A G8!]

Just get a 2800 and she will hardly notice........But you will! :)

Ok I like that answer!:woohoo:
But will it still have to be tune for a stock feeling?

[GRRRR8]

It will need to be tuned for lock up function. Since its a smaller stall Vector can handle that via flash with ease. Steve has no issues with his Circle-D 2800 once Kirk made the adjustments to TCC.

[c5racr1]

what adjustments need to be made. just installed a fti 2800 and was doing a search on this. i am using hp tuners.

[grandmacpubah]

well its looking like the converter is the way to go now that I'm edgumacated...thanks for the input everyone.

[RB Designs]

gears on these cars are a waste of money......convertor is money well spent

[13 QTR]

gears on these cars are a waste of money......convertor is money well spent

Well...I don't believe that... it took a half second off my times,all by itself.

My stock cam/stock convertor times are about equal to a cammed car or a convertor car......not the 2 combined thou.

Just asking....did you ever run the car before the charger? If so,what was you times?

Just remember....that 12.7, I have posted was without the headers and with a little less aggressive tcm tune than what I have now.

I'm not saying a convertor is bad....hell...I want one now,but the part throttle acceleration is great. Nothing like manual mode,easing around in
2nd,and hitting about 4000 rpms and hitting the upshift and barking the tires.

[55belairgasser]

I can not say for this car...yet, but on my 96 Impala SS about the same in weight of the G8 4400lbs. with my a$$ in the seat, a 2800 converter will get you about .5 to .6 sec. in the 1/4. If I was going to cam the car I would have went with a 3200 to a 3400 stall and not a 2800. The G8 has a better trans and I dont know what gears will do for you guys, but the 96 came with 3.08 and most people do 3.73 and see a pretty good pick up. As most people tell me if you do either one of these mods it will make the car feel 1000lbs lighter when you take off, and will not affect your normal driving, too much. These were going to be my next mods, but hopfully I will be trading it in on one of these!!! Again take it for what it is worth, it was not done on a G8, but was done on a heavy 4 door sedan. - Lance