"The Rest of the Pontiac E-Mail" on 4-27-09

[EcoBrick Bob]

GRRRR8'rs

This is the most important part of the e-mail!

My Question for all of you is "To Whom was this Plan Not Acceptable?????

Rob Moser


Pontiac Statement and Q&A
April 27, 2008, 7 am
Pontiac brand to be phased out as part of GM’s more aggressive restructuring efforts

BACKGROUND
Since its inception in 1926, Pontiac has been known for delivering vehicles with both performance and value. Over the past several years, the brand has been closely associated first with GMC and then with Buick.
Statement attributable to Susan Docherty, GM North American Vice President, Buick-Pontiac-GMC:

“Anyone who has been associated with the Pontiac brand knows that this was a difficult decision. Pontiac has had a rich and storied history, but unfortunately, despite the efforts of all concerned, the brand has been unprofitable over the past several years. employees, suppliers,We had hoped in our February 17 Viability Plan to convert Pontiac to a niche brand within the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel.
However, the Viability Plan as submitted was not acceptable. GM was further challenged to take more significant restructuring actions which would allow the company to be viable even in these
unprecedented market conditions and in any future cyclical market downturns. These restructuring actions require further sacrifice by all stakeholders: GM investors and dealers.
As part of these renewed restructuring efforts, we spent considerable time formulating Pontiac portfolio scenarios that would allow the brand to be sustainable and profitable long term. Unfortunately after careful evaluation, none of these scenarios proved viable. Therefore, GM is announcing the phase out of the Pontiac brand by year end 2010. This action
will allow General Motors to devote its limited capital and other resources to GM’s four core brands: Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC.”

Q&A
Q: What happens to my Pontiac vehicle warranty?
A: Pontiac vehicle warranty coverage is unchanged.
Q: Where can Pontiac customers get their vehicles serviced, especially if they have been visiting a Pontiac-only dealership?
A: Customer service is paramount. Customers can have their vehicles serviced at any Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealership.
Q. Will parts continue to be available for my Pontiac product?
A. Yes. Pontiac parts will continue to be available for the foreseeable future.
Q. Should I be worried about obtaining service for my Pontiac if my Pontiac dealer is closing?
A. No. Eighty-five percent of the Buick-Pontiac-GMC sales are currently sold through Buick-Pontiac-GMC aligned dealers. There are about 1,600 Buick-Pontiac-GMC aligned dealerships throughout the United States. Our customer assistance center (US: 1-800-762-2737; Canada 1-800-263-3777; Mexico 01 800 466 08 08) will provide Pontiac customers with the location of the closest Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealer in the event the selling dealer closes.

AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY.....:hang:
__________________

[SRG963]

Good ol Gov I do believe, and it does piss me off something horrible.

[BlueJacket]

I am glad I have a G8 and I will likely be keeping it for more years then I originally planed because thanks to the government the only thing we will be able to buy in the next 5 years will be little sissy cars like the smart car.

[kje141]

Fellas the government has to do something. I am having a hard time blaming the government over blaming GM. The government didnt put GM in the position they are in, laying people off etc etc etc, GM put themselves there, didnt they? Unless some one has the letter from the government that said explicitly "GM YOU MUST DUMP PONTIAC!!!"

[BlueJacket]

Fellas the government has to do something. I am having a hard time blaming the government over blaming GM. The government didnt put GM in the position they are in, laying people off etc etc etc, GM put themselves there, didnt they?

GM has to take most of the blame but over regulation has helped to push it over the edge.

[kje141]

GM let it get to the point where the government had to step in. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have not heard Ford having to be regulated like this have they? I really dont know I am asking if anyone knows. I would imagine it would be in the news as it was with GM if they were.

Please keep in mind I did not vote for Obama.

[Virus]

I think the UAW has to accept some of the blame as well. While GM's management should have seen this coming, the UAW makes if difficult for American automobile companies to remain competative.

[kje141]

I think the UAW has to accept some of the blame as well. While GM's management should have seen this coming, the UAW makes if difficult for American automobile companies to remain competative.

Also a good point.

[BlueJacket]

GM let it get to the point where the government had to step in. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have not heard Ford having to be regulated like this have they? I really dont know I am asking if anyone knows. I would imagine it would be in the news as it was with GM if they were.

Please keep in mind I did not vote for Obama.

When I am talking regulation I mean for the past 20 years.

Three things factored into the fall of GM.

1. The UAW taking everything they could.
2. GM giving the UAW anything they wanted
3. Over regulation of the auto industry by the government.

And what is really scary is the Government whats to give the UAW and itself the controlling stakes in GM.

[EcoBrick Bob]

All of what is being written is true. But this has been going on for many years.

GM squandered their 60's success. Since 1990 thru 2008, they had 12 profitable years and 6 with losses. However, those 6 years of losses were almost double the profits of the 12 years. It was also our fault. We wanted big engines (I still do!) and big SUV's, until gas prices started to really fluctuate in this decade. I got a big Govt. tax break for buying my 2003 Denali XL, which is used as a business vehicle. Even as late as Dec. 2007 we were paying $1.78 a gallon for gas in Iowa. Then the gas shot up to $4., big vehicle sales died, and then the entire economy imploded so that no one could re-finance at any price, except thru the Govt.

GM's Fate was sealed when the first Honda rolled off the assembly line in Ohio in the 70's. Actual Paid Legacy costs have exceeded product development costs since that time. Honda and the other upstarts had none, and got big perks from States and Cities to locate there.

But... the decision to eliminate Pontiac, was mostly beyond GM. Very few Pontiacs are built with US worker labor. In our G8 GT's - 22% was North American Content in 2008, and only 13% in 2009, based on my window stickers. The G8 creates few US jobs.
Remember our Government saving GM is about saving the most US Jobs...

Whoever is responsible.... really doesn't matter anymore....

JUST A SAD SAD STORY.....

[solty]

Just 15 month ago, Ford was in the same boat as GM and Xsler, regarding their relation with UAW, the lack of a good small platform and/or hybrid and the lack of a luxury performance rear wheel drive platform (Ford). Just recently has Ford introduced some Hybrid options, and that is thanks to Toyota who they license the technology from. That is why they are in the hybrid market right now. GM develops all of that in house, it cost more, and it takes more time, but if the vehicle becomes successful, and the sales volume are up, GM is in a better position margin wise to make money since they own the technology. Also Ford lucked out, they mortgaged everything they owned just few month before the economy tanked, that is why they are able to survive right now with no governement help, but again they mortgaged everything, even their name plate logo "FORD". I am not saying it is bad, just stating why Ford does not need the governement right now....


GM let it get to the point where the government had to step in. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have not heard Ford having to be regulated like this have they? I really dont know I am asking if anyone knows. I would imagine it would be in the news as it was with GM if they were.

Please keep in mind I did not vote for Obama.

[kje141]

Well said Moser, but your first post seemed to ask us all who we thought did not accept the vitality plan, which would put all the blame on the government when asked that way. Its clear that there are many things that got us to this point and yes it sucks. I was proud to only have ever owed a Pontiac (93 Grand Am, 07 G6 GT, and 09 G8 GT. Doesnt look like I will be able to continue that. :(

[EcoBrick Bob]

GM let it get to the point where the government had to step in. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have not heard Ford having to be regulated like this have they? I really dont know I am asking if anyone knows. I would imagine it would be in the news as it was with GM if they were.

Please keep in mind I did not vote for Obama.

Short Version -

A good friend who is a retired Ford exec, says that Ford was in some trouble in 2007 due to declining sales of their big vehicles, and that they made the decision to mortgage the entire operation by selling long term bonds at attractive interest rates. This gave them a great amount of liquidity. At the time, it very negatively affected their stock price, but in today's business climate, has proven to be a terrific decision.

He says they will be fine, but only if the market returns to a 12 million level within a year or 2. Otherwise they will run out of cash. Their new products including the new F-150 are being favorably received, and have equal or better quality compared with Toyota and Honda.

Also, because of their position, the UAW has been treating them more favorably.

[norm8332]

Good ol Gov I do believe, and it does piss me off something horrible.
The administration to be exact.

[PantherGTBlack]

I think the UAW has to accept some of the blame as well. While GM's management should have seen this coming, the UAW makes if difficult for American automobile companies to remain competative.

Very true. A close friend of the family is high up (head of 8 divisions within the company) with American Axle Manufacturers (AAM). A while back they (UAW) went on strike at their Three Rivers, MI plant. When he had to go in to talk with some of the management there, all he saw parked by the picket line was Corvettes, Escalades, Duramaxes, etc. etc. My point being, how in the f*!@ is GM supposed to stay a float when some of these people working in a factory are making $50+/hr?? It's down-right greedy, and on top of that they were demanding more....WTF???? I've worked in factories in the past as summer help, granted it's not something I would want to make a full-time career out of, but the demands these people are making are very outlandish for low-labor, low-education jobs many of them held.

If you want to have flat-screen TV's in every room in your house, go get some schooling and work your way up to job where you are actually worth what you're getting paid.

Unions are the major thread on this screw

Unions spell: lazy, bullshit, greed, and the list goes on.

If I offend any of you on here for my comments, I do apologize. However turn around and look at what you tell your children to do, "Go to college and get a good job, son/daughter." Perhaps the parents should quit going by the "Do as I say, not as I do rule." There are always some short term sacrifices people can do to obtain a long term gain.

:poof::deadhorse::flag::rant2:

[BlueJacket]

Very true. A close friend of the family is high up (head of 8 divisions within the company) with American Axle Manufacturers (AAM). A while back they (UAW) went on strike at their Three Rivers, MI plant. When he had to go in to talk with some of the management there, all he saw parked by the picket line was Corvettes, Escalades, Duramaxes, etc. etc. My point being, how in the f*!@ is GM supposed to stay a float when some of these people working in a factory are making $50+/hr?? It's down-right greedy, and on top of that they were demanding more....WTF???? I've worked in factories in the past as summer help, granted it's not something I would want to make a full-time career out of, but the demands these people are making are very outlandish for low-labor, low-education jobs many of them held.

If you want to have flat-screen TV's in every room in your house, go get some schooling and work your way up to job where you are actually worth what you're getting paid.

Unions are the major thread on this screw

Unions spell: lazy, bullshit, greed, and the list goes on.

If I offend any of you on here for my comments, I do apologize. However turn around and look at what you tell your children to do, "Go to college and get a good job, son/daughter." Perhaps the parents should quit going by the "Do as I say, not as I do rule." There are always some short term sacrifices people can do to obtain a long term gain.

:poof::deadhorse::flag::rant2:

:flag:

[EcoBrick Bob]

Well said Moser, but your first post seemed to ask us all who we thought did not accept the vitality plan, which would put all the blame on the government when asked that way. Its clear that there are many things that got us to this point and yes it sucks. I was proud to only have ever owed a Pontiac (93 Grand Am, 07 G6 GT, and 09 G8 GT. Doesnt look like I will be able to continue that. :(

I agree I tried to set you all up.... The problem is government getting directly involved in our industries.. Unfortunately, there are alot of fingers to point at lots of people, from congress, unions, wall street greed etc. Didn't happen overnight... but unfortunately G8 owners will be taking it in the shorts!

My first Pontiac was a new 1964 Pontiac Catalina 2+2 with 421 TriPower and GM's first transistor ignition.... worst car I ever owned.

[AttorneyGuy]

All I know is...the Bush-Cheney Administration would not have killed the G8.

[r33pwrd]

[QUOTE=Rob Moser;83308]Remember our Government saving GM is about saving the most US Jobs...[QUOTE]

That is a very good point I never really thought about... simple fact is though if GM didnt have their hand out, the goverment WOULD not have been able to strong arm them into anything plain and simple.

[r33pwrd]

All I know is...the Bush-Cheney Administration would not have killed the G8.

the Goverment did not kill the G8 GM did...

[EcoBrick Bob]

the Goverment did not kill the G8 GM did...

You are wrong.... others - that means the administration and their congress and union cronies overruled GM's reorganization plan. They may have good and justifiable reasons but never the less they did it and both Pontiac and the G8 are soon to be history. Frankly, I would be surprised if Holden survives.:hang:

[-Ray-]

Somehow we need to keep this thread non-political. Or, it runs the risk of being locked.

[bobyoung]

GM has to take most of the blame but over regulation has helped to push it over the edge.

Exactly over regulation is in large part responsible for the bind they are in now, starting in the late 60's early 70's. American car companies had to drastically change to make sissy cars, the Japanese were already good at it.

[Livetosurf]

Lawyer Guy you are kidding right?
The Bush-Cheney administration is why we are at this point in the first place. Have you forgotten so soon, that we were in financial turmoil as a country before Obama took office?

[-Ray-]

Lawyer Guy you are kidding right?
The Bush-Cheney administration is why we are at this point in the first place. Have you forgotten so soon, that we were in financial turmoil as a country before Obama took office?

You must have missed post 22.
This is the last warning. LOCKED IS NEXT.

[timg8]

I agree with most of the posts above.

UAW wants all their people to be paid high wages which is fine but there has to be some give...they are giving now. Executives should be the first ones that lose wages. They damn sure claim their high wages are due to their responsibility for success, so when there are no successes shouldn't they claim that responsibility as well.

The government wants control...folks...like it or not we have been steadily headed for socialism for at least the last 30 years. Look at the fight over immigration and government freebies for those people who don't even want to learn English. I have no problem with immigration as long as there is some societal assimilation and limits. We don't have unlimited resources, either ecological or financial. This is laid on both parties, but I can't get heavy into politics on this thread. How many of you have things like mandatory bicycle helmet laws in your communities. A total lack of personal responsibility and the shrinks and feel gooders rush in with that everybody's wonderful crap.

Greed, greed, greed at all levels. Every body wants the most for theirs and the least for someone else's. Don't believe that, look at people trading cars; they want 110% retail for their old worn out junker but then want the dealer to make no more than a hundred bucks on a new vehicle. Remember a fairs days wage for a fair days work...notice the term remember because that is a memory.

Mostly I have to lay the problem at the hands of the American consumer. They prefer to drive German cars and Japanese cars and now Korean cars. Is it because those folks build better cars. At one time they were when American cars were trying to stay competitive price wise but that disappeared 15-20 years ago. Somehow the good ol American consumer still thinks that a Hyundai is better than an American car. I owned two Nissan's in the mid 80's, a Maxima and a V6 pickup and I will tell you that my 90's and 00's Pontiacs have been just as good if not better cars than those were.

Wake up Americans.

Whew, sorry about that rant. :flame:

Sorry admin if this is too political, I was trying as best I could to keep politics out of it but it is almost impossible with this subject matter because of the nature of todays situation.

[R.Penguin]

GRRRR8'rs

This is the most important part of the e-mail!

My Question for all of you is "To Whom was this Plan Not Acceptable?????

Rob Moser


Pontiac Statement and Q&A
April 27, 2008, 7 am
Pontiac brand to be phased out as part of GM’s more aggressive restructuring efforts

BACKGROUND
Since its inception in 1926, Pontiac has been known for delivering vehicles with both performance and value. Over the past several years, the brand has been closely associated first with GMC and then with Buick.
Statement attributable to Susan Docherty, GM North American Vice President, Buick-Pontiac-GMC:

“Anyone who has been associated with the Pontiac brand knows that this was a difficult decision. Pontiac has had a rich and storied history, but unfortunately, despite the efforts of all concerned, the brand has been unprofitable over the past several years. employees, suppliers,We had hoped in our February 17 Viability Plan to convert Pontiac to a niche brand within the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel.
However, the Viability Plan as submitted was not acceptable. GM was further challenged to take more significant restructuring actions which would allow the company to be viable even in these
unprecedented market conditions and in any future cyclical market downturns. These restructuring actions require further sacrifice by all stakeholders: GM investors and dealers.
As part of these renewed restructuring efforts, we spent considerable time formulating Pontiac portfolio scenarios that would allow the brand to be sustainable and profitable long term. Unfortunately after careful evaluation, none of these scenarios proved viable. Therefore, GM is announcing the phase out of the Pontiac brand by year end 2010. This action
will allow General Motors to devote its limited capital and other resources to GM’s four core brands: Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC.”

Q&A
Q: What happens to my Pontiac vehicle warranty?
A: Pontiac vehicle warranty coverage is unchanged.
Q: Where can Pontiac customers get their vehicles serviced, especially if they have been visiting a Pontiac-only dealership?
A: Customer service is paramount. Customers can have their vehicles serviced at any Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealership.
Q. Will parts continue to be available for my Pontiac product?
A. Yes. Pontiac parts will continue to be available for the foreseeable future.
Q. Should I be worried about obtaining service for my Pontiac if my Pontiac dealer is closing?
A. No. Eighty-five percent of the Buick-Pontiac-GMC sales are currently sold through Buick-Pontiac-GMC aligned dealers. There are about 1,600 Buick-Pontiac-GMC aligned dealerships throughout the United States. Our customer assistance center (US: 1-800-762-2737; Canada 1-800-263-3777; Mexico 01 800 466 08 08) will provide Pontiac customers with the location of the closest Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealer in the event the selling dealer closes.

AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY.....:hang:
__________________
Well, damn! At the rate our G8's are being destroyed by large animals and 85 yr. old ladys that wander into our paths.......Maybe I better get my 3rd G8 now!:p I think this calls for a poll. I'm too lazy to start it tho'.

Like, how many members of this forum alone have had G8's totalled by the above, or otherwise? I'll start......1 - ME! :hang:

At this rate it's possible that Pontiac could have become viable just selling replacement G8's. :nah:

[55belairgasser]

Very true. A close friend of the family is high up (head of 8 divisions within the company) with American Axle Manufacturers (AAM). A while back they (UAW) went on strike at their Three Rivers, MI plant. When he had to go in to talk with some of the management there, all he saw parked by the picket line was Corvettes, Escalades, Duramaxes, etc. etc. My point being, how in the f*!@ is GM supposed to stay a float when some of these people working in a factory are making $50+/hr?? It's down-right greedy, and on top of that they were demanding more....WTF???? I've worked in factories in the past as summer help, granted it's not something I would want to make a full-time career out of, but the demands these people are making are very outlandish for low-labor, low-education jobs many of them held.

If you want to have flat-screen TV's in every room in your house, go get some schooling and work your way up to job where you are actually worth what you're getting paid.



Unions are the major thread on this screw

Unions spell: lazy, bullshit, greed, and the list goes on.

If I offend any of you on here for my comments, I do apologize. However turn around and look at what you tell your children to do, "Go to college and get a good job, son/daughter." Perhaps the parents should quit going by the "Do as I say, not as I do rule." There are always some short term sacrifices people can do to obtain a long term gain.

:poof::deadhorse::flag::rant2:




I am going to assume you are a college grad? Then this should be easy for you to understand. That was a blanket statement and STUPID! I am not calling you stupid, but your statement was. All unions workers are not lazy, greedy ect. Some of us hold college deg., and alot of us have to work 50-60 hours a week to make ends meet.
That would be like me saying that all college grads are smart. A blanket statement and oh so untrue! Remember the people up in Washington and the Upper managment at GM went to some of the best school's money can buy. Look where we are at now?
Alot of Unions work with the companys that are employing us, because everyone knows if the company is not making $$ then you dont have a job.
Had to get that off my chest. Proud to be in Local 173 Bradenton FL. - Lance

[It's A G8!]

What ever happen to oil depleting? Wasn't it the story they were feeding us? Isn't it the reason the price of oil spiked? People stopped driving as much. And now there is plenty of oil? I believe that's what gave the economy a black eye. People got scared and stop buying big trucks. Also the media likes to hype up everything. With no actual investigation.
I believe that if GM needed help from the Gov. they should get it. But this doesn't mean that the gov. should tell them how to run the business. As long as they paid the money back.Gm should of just gone into chapter 11 and started over.How many airline have done it and they come back strong? I bet they are kicking themselves for not doing it!

[Panzer Leader]

Again I ask 2 basic questions. 1) Parts available for the foreseeable future. What does that mean? My foreseeable may be longer than theirs. 2.) Any Buick, Pontiac, GMC Dealer. OK What about a Chevy Dealer? Are they not part of the loving GM family? Perhaps we can get parts, warranty work and more from the FMC "Federal Motors Corporation."