don't buy from grafxwerks

[mdogg]

I would have to highly recommend against ordering from grafxwerks.

I ordered approximately 3/28.
My order "shipped 3/30" according to their website.
After 15 business days, I emailed them - immediate bounce-back.
Today I opened a PayPal dispute (to cover my ass).
GW refunded the full price.
I ordered again, almost immediately.
GW refunded me AGAIN - with a note: "I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to risk a second PayPal claim. Regards, - Ryan GrafxWerk"

great customer service.... thank you for punishing the CUSTOMER for a seller fuck up. really nice.

[BluYa76]

I've ordered from Ryan on more than 4 times in the past year and a half and I've never had any issues. When I did have a question about an order it was answered promptly. Don't know what happened, but I think there might have been some type of miss communication on either end.

I highly recommend his products.

By bounce back, do you mean your email was returned as undeliverable? If so, there are other ways of getting ahold of Ryan, like a PM here or on other forums that he is a vendor on. I think that you did not give him time to respond or try other methods of getting ahold of him to correct the problem. Heck, crap happens when stuff is shipped through the mail. Now if you had ordered several items and all those different items did not show up and after repeated attempts to contact him fell on deaf ears, I could understand your feelings towards his business. But to go straight to paypal and file a dispute hurts his rating. It's not like he's doing shady work, cause alot of us guys are buying from him and have been for along time with positive results. All in all I think you should have given him more time or attempted more methods of getting ahold of him.

[jnak]

I've never had problems with Grafxwerks either. Sorry to hear about it. Seems like you only emailed them once, which they never got? I'm sure if you had called, or sent another email, instead of going to Paypal, they would have set things right.

[mdogg]

I've ordered from Ryan on more than 4 times in the past year and a half and I've never had any issues. When I did have a question about an order it was answered promptly. Don't know what happened, but I think there might have been some type of miss communication on either end.

I highly recommend his products.

By bounce back, do you mean your email was returned as undeliverable? If so, there are other ways of getting ahold of Ryan, like a PM here or on other forums that he is a vendor on. I think that you did not give him time to respond or try other methods of getting ahold of him to correct the problem. Heck, crap happens when stuff is shipped through the mail. Now if you had ordered several items and all those different items did not show up and after repeated attempts to contact him fell on deaf ears, I could understand your feelings towards his business. But to go straight to paypal and file a dispute hurts his rating. It's not like he's doing shady work, cause alot of us guys are buying from him and have been for along time with positive results. All in all I think you should have given him more time or attempted more methods of getting ahold of him.
There was not any "miscommunication" on either end. He sent my order to the incorrect address. He admitted "I noticed that I inverted your address and sent it to 581 instead of 851" in the PayPal dispute area. He also said that he would ship once I close the dispute. To that I responded that I would close the dispute when I receive items I ordered.

What other methods to contact them?
I sent him a PM on THIS forum with absolutely no response.
There is no phone number to call.

My ONLY option was to go through PayPal - after patiently waiting 16 business days for a package. I see that I did nothing wrong. Then to refuse to ship it again to my CORRECT address (instead of the incorrect one as was already done)? That's very poor customer service and looks very bad.


I've never had problems with Grafxwerks either. Sorry to hear about it. Seems like you only emailed them once, which they never got? I'm sure if you had called, or sent another email, instead of going to Paypal, they would have set things right.
how many emails should a customer have to send and "hope" that one gets through? Should I have 2 undeliverable bounce-backs? 3 maybe? To be nice, how about 4 or 5? If there was a phone number to call, I would have done that. I don't see one on their site - which is VERY SHADY TO BEGIN WITH AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN AS A NEGATIVE SIGN that they are not customer-friendly.

Poor business move.... the sad thing is that I was really looking forward to the items and now he won't even fucking let me place an order because he is scared of another PayPal dispute?!?!?!

Yes, he won't let me order after GRAFXWERKS FUCKED UP the order - they sent it to the wrong place, I called them out on it, and now I am the one punished? lol

ridiculous....

[BluYa76]

There was not any "miscommunication" on either end. He sent my order to the incorrect address. He admitted "I noticed that I inverted your address and sent it to 581 instead of 851" in the PayPal dispute area. He also said that he would ship once I close the dispute. To that I responded that I would close the dispute when I receive items I ordered.

What other methods to contact them?
I sent him a PM on THIS forum with absolutely no response.
There is no phone number to call.

My ONLY option was to go through PayPal - after patiently waiting 16 business days for a package. I see that I did nothing wrong. Then to refuse to ship it again to my CORRECT address (instead of the incorrect one as was already done)? That's very poor customer service and looks very bad.


how many emails should a customer have to send and "hope" that one gets through? Should I have 2 undeliverable bounce-backs? 3 maybe? To be nice, how about 4 or 5? If there was a phone number to call, I would have done that. I don't see one on their site - which is VERY SHADY TO BEGIN WITH AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN AS A NEGATIVE SIGN that they are not customer-friendly.

Poor business move.... the sad thing is that I was really looking forward to the items and now he won't even fucking let me place an order because he is scared of another PayPal dispute?!?!?!

Yes, he won't let me order after GRAFXWERKS FUCKED UP the order - they sent it to the wrong place, I called them out on it, and now I am the one punished? lol

ridiculous....

Well, maybe a posting about your order on here + the PM prior to placing a Paypal dispute would have netted you a better outcome. I understand where you are coming from as far as not having a number to call him at, but maybe it's due to the fact that it's a small business run on the side and he does not have the time to feel calls from every shmoe out there (I trully don't know why he does not have one). After seeing how your response to us is here, I can only wonder what WAS said between the two of you. There are always three sides to a story, your's, there's, and the unbiased one. Sorry things did not go so well with the transaction, but posting here with all of us to see and chime in would have probably gotten you a better outcome.

[GTPprix]

I've ordered from Ryan for YEARS and this is *the* first complaint I've ever seen on ANY forum. In fact I JUST got a set of decals that happened to be wrong because of a design change, Ryan took GREAT care of me on that one.

If your emails were anything like your posts I dont blame him for not wanting to do it again.

[wreckwriter]

Ryan has been perfect for me, above and beyond.

[foreosu]

I have my own online business and I hate when people take the "dispute with PayPal" route as one of their first few options. PayPal, without question, will always refund your purchase without even getting in contact with the seller.

[mdogg]

Well, maybe a posting about your order on here + the PM prior to placing a Paypal dispute would have netted you a better outcome. I understand where you are coming from as far as not having a number to call him at, but maybe it's due to the fact that it's a small business run on the side and he does not have the time to feel calls from every shmoe out there (I trully don't know why he does not have one). After seeing how your response to us is here, I can only wonder what WAS said between the two of you. There are always three sides to a story, your's, there's, and the unbiased one. Sorry things did not go so well with the transaction, but posting here with all of us to see and chime in would have probably gotten you a better outcome.
Here is the full transcript from the PayPal dispute.

****From Buyer:
Hello,

It has been 16 business days since my order (#20090328xxxxxx) was shipped on March 30, 2009 (according to your website). I attempted to send an email to the PayPal address, but it was returned undeliverable immediately. I have still not received the order as of today.

I would like these items delivered as I ordered them.

G8GT1-1455 Pontiac Arrowhead Overlay (Front)
G8GT1-1456 Pontiac Arrowhead Overlay (Rear)
G8GT1-1467 Side Marker Overlays (Front)
G8GT1-1468 Reflector Overlays (Rear)

Thank you.

****From Seller - GrafxWerks

Hi xxxx,

I noticed that I inverted your address and sent it to 581 instead of 851. I will re-ship the items upon resolution of this dispute.

Sorry about the error.

- Ryan

GrafxWerks

****From Buyer

Thanks for looking into this, Ryan.

Once I receive the items, I'll gladly close the dispute.

Thanks,

xxxx

From Seller - GrafxWerks

Refund for mis-shipped items.

That is the entire message.
Here is the refund message from the 2nd order:
Note:
Hi xxxx,

I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to risk a second PayPal claim.

Regards,

- Ryan
GrafxWerks



I've ordered from Ryan for YEARS and this is *the* first complaint I've ever seen on ANY forum. In fact I JUST got a set of decals that happened to be wrong because of a design change, Ryan took GREAT care of me on that one.

If your emails were anything like your posts I dont blame him for not wanting to do it again.
Good for you?
I wonder why his customer service became so poor now?
He did not receive my email, but do you want me to post a copy of that too?
Nowhere in anything received by GW or NOT received by GW was I harsh.
Do you want to point out my harsh tones in the PayPal transcript above?
Oh wait, there wasn't anything harsh/wrong/malicious that I said (until he REFUSED my 2nd order for no reason)

I think I explained the situation from my side very clearly to ensure that it was easily understood to avoid back-and-forth to figure out what the issue was in the first place - to get it resolved quickly.

I made it easy.... I just wanted the items....
What was his real concern?
Did he think I was trying to scam him out of $37 after he CLEARLY indicated it was HIS mistake?

$37????? seriously????

[wreckwriter]

Since it was only $37 why didn't you try to resolve it without paypal. A PM or post here maybe if the email was an issue?

[mdogg]

I have my own online business and I hate when people take the "dispute with PayPal" route as one of their first few options. PayPal, without question, will always refund your purchase without even getting in contact with the seller.
Thanks for skimming - convenient...

1. emailed - bounceback immediately.
2. PM on THIS forum (since he is a "vendor" here)
3. looked for phone number - not to be found

What else should I have done instead?
Please enlighten me; apparently I didn't do this "correctly".
I'm curious what I really missed.

Should I try to find what country/state he registered the business in?
Do a server search to see who the website is registered to?

What else should I have done before doing the PayPal dispute?
PayPal was not one of my first few options, but you would've seen that had you read.

[mdogg]

Since it was only $37 why didn't you try to resolve it without paypal. A PM or post here maybe if the email was an issue?
no phone number, email didn't go through, PM on THIS forum was unanswered

again, how hard does the CUSTOMER have to work/search to find out how to get a response?

[BluYa76]

no phone number, email didn't go through, PM on THIS forum was unanswered

again, how hard does the CUSTOMER have to work/search to find out how to get a response?

Well, obviously you don't understand what we are trying to tell you. A POSTING ON HERE OR THE OTHER SITE(s) would have gotten you a better response and resolution. Ryan just didn't start his business overnight and is in the business of scamming people to get such a great rep from us all. He's built that up over many years from dealing with us ALL on numerous sites. So a posting here about, oh I don't know maybe, "TRYING TO GET IN TOUCH WITH SOMEONE @ GRAFXWERKS--NEED HELP" along with your email and the PM I'm sure would have helped you more. Again sorry it did not go the way you had hoped.

[WhyteSS]

Grafxwerks has always been first class with me as well. Sorry to hear about this problem.

[r33pwrd]

mdogg I agree %100 with what you did... im sorry but no answer to a PM no # to call bounce back e-mails... what else can you do? Im sure Ryan is a good guy and had no intent to screw you and well shit happens but it is not your fault the address was done wrong and here you are not being able to get what you wanted.

IMO I have never been impressed or excited about doing deals with a comapny that doesnt post phone #'s on their site or give you a # when you place an order.

[Chewy]

mdogg I agree %100 with what you did... im sorry but no answer to a PM no # to call bounce back e-mails... what else can you do? Im sure Ryan is a good guy and had no intent to screw you and well shit happens but it is not your fault the address was done wrong and here you are not being able to get what you wanted.

IMO I have never been impressed or excited about doing deals with a comapny that doesnt post phone #'s on their site or give you a # when you place an order.


Agreed! Let's not beat the guy up for trying to get his money back. It sounds as if he tried all avenues to get a hold of Ryan.

Not calling you a liar here mdogg but there is always two sides to a story so it'd be nice to hear from Ryan as well.

Chris
not taking sides

[norm8332]

mdogg I agree %100 with what you did... im sorry but no answer to a PM no # to call bounce back e-mails... what else can you do? Im sure Ryan is a good guy and had no intent to screw you and well shit happens but it is not your fault the address was done wrong and here you are not being able to get what you wanted.

IMO I have never been impressed or excited about doing deals with a comapny that doesnt post phone #'s on their site or give you a # when you place an order.


I may be in the minority but I agree too. It seems that he took all the less drastic avenues first. After 16 days without contact I may have done the same thing.

And that said I also understand that the title of this thread is an opinion.

[DQGTO]

I am biased here, because I go to this site for everything from car info, to jokes, to non-g8 car help to selling shit to trying to find a damn job so I would have gotten a thread or 56 on here within a few days AFTER the scheduled delivery date (if you went express X days, ground X etc) to ask hey whats up? Cant get in touch with you. Everything okay? Just confirming my order...after a a day or two, try again with a bump, and then after that. PayPal all the way. I have never dealt with them before but I am cutting him some slack just because of his rep through here. If I heard of him through here, then I would have tried to resolve the problem through here.

[stryker g8gt]

I think using less colorful language would have gotten better responses from all members.

But, I may have taken the same avenue he has for either my money back or for the product.

if you post an opinion your going to get an opinion.....

[ETIDMotorsports]

Never had a problem with them either.... Sounds like bad luck for both parties

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

I have a side business and use Paypal for all my orders. I have never shipped to the wrong address because I copy/paste AND double check the buyers address from the Paypal invoice when I print the mailing label. If the buyer sent me the correct address I know it will be shipped to that address.

This was Ryan's mistake by transposing the number, and mdogg was totally in the right for filing a Paypal dispute after he couldn't contact him. I always respond to any emails that customers send me, and check my junk email daily to make sure there are no customer emails that end up in there.

I've had a few people file a Paypal complaint without first trying to contact me, and sometimes it's a hassle to get it resolved. I've also had a buyer contact their credit company even though I had shipped the item, and their credit card company put a freeze on the funds in my Paypal account. That was nightmare to resolve, and even though I finally got it settled, it took 60 days for Paypal to release the money that the credit card company had frozen.

[mdogg]

Thanks guys.

I was very frustrated with the situation (still am). I wasn't attempting to do anything except get the items I paid for. I didn't even want a refund - I would've waited another 5-10 business days if I was going to get the item that I paid for (the item that I wanted/still want). I don't feel I was at all harsh until I was instantly refunded the 2nd order and I was refused service by the seller. At that point, yes, I became quite harsh and "colorful."

I didn't go screaming on the forum as my first option as I think that's a cop-out, crying wolf, etc. and I HATE reading threads like that where the guy doesn't get a response after 10 seconds.

I was VERY patient. My preference would have been to call and talk to someone, but that wasn't an option since his business does not provide a phone number. I also attempted to email and send a PM on this forum. I really don't think I could have done anything else.

I guess the positive thing is that the issue was "resolved" very promptly, though not in the way I wished it was.

I am just disappointed that he wouldn't accept my order (well, it was automatically accepted, I paid, and then he nearly immediately refunded the 2nd order), not wanting to "risk a second PayPal claim." It's just ironic I guess that there was only a claim in the first place due to a mislabeled package on his end, no phone number listed (intentional on his end I would have to assume), an email that was bounced immediately, and a PM that went unanswered.

I'm sure he will go on with his business and I'm sure that he won't feel any impact from this lost sale. It's just unfortunate that's how it ended up, though, and in the end the customer lost. I was really looking forward to getting the overlays, too.

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

I don't have a contact phone number because this is a home based business, and I don't want everyone on the internet to know my home phone number. I'm sure that's the same reason he doesn't have a contact number either. Besides I would never get anything done if I had to talk on the phone constantly to people. It's bad enough that I have to take time to answer silly questions that can be found on my website if people would take the time to read thoroughly.

[mdogg]

I don't have a contact phone number because this is a home based business, and I don't want everyone on the internet to know my home phone number. I'm sure that's the same reason he doesn't have a contact number either. Besides I would never get anything done if I had to talk on the phone constantly to people. It's bad enough that I have to take time to answer silly questions that can be found on my website if people would take the time to read thoroughly.
I'm not saying he doesn't have a perfectly valid reason for not having a listed phone number. I'm sure that actually keeps the prices down since he should theoretically be more productive - especially for a very straight-forward business like the decals/overlays.

I'm just saying that it can't be an automatic strike against ME for having 1 less option from the beginning.

[-Ray-]

If the issue was a simple transposing numbers, your postal service sucks. They sort their own mail and should have caught that error.
I was saved from identity theft because the mail person caught the address change.
Shame to have those hard feelings over a mistake.

[r33pwrd]

If the issue was a simple transposing numbers, your postal service sucks. They sort their own mail and should have caught that error.
I was saved from identity theft because the mail person caught the address change.
Shame to have those hard feelings over a mistake.

If you read his comments the hard feelings are not over the mailing mistake...

[mdogg]

If the issue was a simple transposing numbers, your postal service sucks. They sort their own mail and should have caught that error.
I was saved from identity theft because the mail person caught the address change.
Shame to have those hard feelings over a mistake.
I understand it was a mistake. I don't have hard feelings about the mistake.

I have hard feelings that they refused to accept my 2nd order after the 1st issue was "resolved" via refund. That is the part that I just don't get. I was ok with having the clock reset to 0 and starting over on the order....

[-Ray-]

Ryan's human like you.

[BluYa76]

[QUOTE=mdogg;78280]I'm not saying he doesn't have a perfectly valid reason for not having a listed phone number. I'm sure that actually keeps the prices down since he should theoretically be more productive - especially for a very straight-forward business like the decals/overlays.

I'm just saying that it can't be an automatic strike against ME for having 1 less option from the beginning.

Which is it, one second you're calling it shady for not having a number to call, and the next you're saying it's a perfectly valid reason for not having since it may be (which I'm sure it is) a small business.

Point is, he's a vendor here and on other boards. We're all members here who deal with these vendor's all the time. Next time just post in the respective area asking for our help (cause we are all here to help each other) and the vendors if all else fails. Some of us may know another avenue to pursue in getting in touch with that vendor. mdogg I'm not trying to beat you up if that did come out or was expressed in some of my posting's I am trully sorry for that, but I'm just trying to give you insight into another way of resolving a vendor issue.

[r33pwrd]

Man you guys really turn shit around on him...

[r33pwrd]

Ryan's human like you.

Than why not just ship out the product the second time?? Im sorry he screwed up and yes his paypal account got hit for it... his fault why should customer get stuck without a product he wanted??

[-Ray-]

Look he made a mistake. How far does this need to be carried? Besides, I don't decide weather to do business with a vendor based on one persons experience. That is what this forum is for. Feedback.
We can defend the OP or the vendor all we want. This is just a feedback thread of many.
Some member could just buy the items for the OP and mail them if he still wants them. There is always a solution if you seek it.

[r33pwrd]

Some member could just buy the items for the OP and mail them if he still wants them. There is always a solution if you seek it.

Not a bad Idea tell me what you want mdogg and I will order it for you...

[-Ray-]

Not a bad Idea tell me what you want mdogg and I will order it for you...

Nice gesture.

[r33pwrd]

Nice gesture.

well I need the reflector covers as well...

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Just a small offer of insight from another vendor...

We vendors deal with the gamut of people when it comes to business. After a while we tend to have to be able to get a quick feel for people when about to do business with them. We end up doing business with most, but there are those occasional few that we turn away because we see signs of future problems. Some people are too demanding, others disrespectful, others still wanting to haggle on price so far that they end up being lowballers. After a while that sense that we develop over time is meant to weed out the BS and allow us to focus on the normal people to take care of rather than wasting our time with hardheaded individuals.

While it is obvious that they messed the shipping up I did notice something that may have been the reason why they ended up turning you down for the second order. In your Paypal dispute they said that they would reship the items once the dispute was dropped. Then you countered with something along the lines of saying that you only drop the dispute after they ship the items. By you having that open dispute payment is no longer secured for the item in question. Not many business will ship merchandise without secured payment. It is just how it works with most of us. Honestly I feel bad for your situation but I cannot say that I would not have done a similar thing if I were in grafxwerks position. We business owners have to protect ourselves here too. If you only knew how many times people try to BS and scam us then you would better understand why we have to operate the way we do, by strict rules, even if it doesn't seem "cool" to do so at the moment. I believe that you were asking a little too much when you wanted them to ship the items before you dropped the dispute. After all, IF you happened to be a dishonest person then what would prevent you from just receiving the items but still continuing with Paypal to get your money back? There are two sides to every coin and I am not saying that what you did was wrong, but I think events would have unfolded more to your liking if you had refrained from that one request...

You guys have a good afternoon. I know this horse has been beaten quite a bit in here already but I didn't see any previous mention of what I talked about so I figured it best in the interest of general knowledge to bring it up.

[mdogg]

Just a small offer of insight from another vendor...

We vendors deal with the gamut of people when it comes to business. After a while we tend to have to be able to get a quick feel for people when about to do business with them. We end up doing business with most, but there are those occasional few that we turn away because we see signs of future problems. Some people are too demanding, others disrespectful, others still wanting to haggle on price so far that they end up being lowballers. After a while that sense that we develop over time is meant to weed out the BS and allow us to focus on the normal people to take care of rather than wasting our time with hardheaded individuals.

While it is obvious that they messed the shipping up I did notice something that may have been the reason why they ended up turning you down for the second order. In your Paypal dispute they said that they would reship the items once the dispute was dropped. Then you countered with something along the lines of saying that you only drop the dispute after they ship the items. By you having that open dispute payment is no longer secured for the item in question. Not many business will ship merchandise without secured payment. It is just how it works with most of us. Honestly I feel bad for your situation but I cannot say that I would not have done a similar thing if I were in grafxwerks position. We business owners have to protect ourselves here too. If you only knew how many times people try to BS and scam us then you would better understand why we have to operate the way we do, by strict rules, even if it doesn't seem "cool" to do so at the moment. I believe that you were asking a little too much when you wanted them to ship the items before you dropped the dispute. After all, IF you happened to be a dishonest person then what would prevent you from just receiving the items but still continuing with Paypal to get your money back? There are two sides to every coin and I am not saying that what you did was wrong, but I think events would have unfolded more to your liking if you had refrained from that one request...

You guys have a good afternoon. I know this horse has been beaten quite a bit in here already but I didn't see any previous mention of what I talked about so I figured it best in the interest of general knowledge to bring it up.
I appreciate the insight - I really do.

But from the other side, is it fair for a seller to ask the buyer to indicate that the issue has been resolved when it hasn't been? I'm not really 100% certain on everything about a dispute. I was not aware, and still don't know for sure, that I could indicate the dispute was resolved and go back to the same transaction and open a second dispute (or reopen the original dispute, etc).

From my side, what was to stop him from not sending it if I indicate through PayPal that the "non-receipt" was resolved? The PayPal dispute was the only method of contact that worked and it was my only leverage to get the items I paid for. It cuts both ways. I realize that. But he already had my money via PayPal. Once the buyer lets go of the money, the seller is in control - I'm sure you realize that as well.

[bubblyjock]

Yeah someone can order the items that you want, hell I'll pay for em with the trouble you have gone through just for some overlays!

[-Ray-]

I appreciate the insight - I really do.

But from the other side, is it fair for a seller to ask the buyer to indicate that the issue has been resolved when it hasn't been? I'm not really 100% certain on everything about a dispute. I was not aware, and still don't know for sure, that I could indicate the dispute was resolved and go back to the same transaction and open a second dispute (or reopen the original dispute, etc).

From my side, what was to stop him from not sending it if I indicate through PayPal that the "non-receipt" was resolved? The PayPal dispute was the only method of contact that worked and it was my only leverage to get the items I paid for. It cuts both ways. I realize that. But he already had my money via PayPal. Once the buyer lets go of the money, the seller is in control - I'm sure you realize that as well.

Your original post indicated they refunded the full price. Once the money is refunded your paypal dispute should be resolved.


I would have to highly recommend against ordering from grafxwerks.

I ordered approximately 3/28.
My order "shipped 3/30" according to their website.
After 15 business days, I emailed them - immediate bounce-back.
Today I opened a PayPal dispute (to cover my ass).
GW refunded the full price.
I ordered again, almost immediately.
GW refunded me AGAIN - with a note: "I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to risk a second PayPal claim. Regards, - Ryan GrafxWerk"

great customer service.... thank you for punishing the CUSTOMER for a seller fuck up. really nice.

[mdogg]

Your original post indicated they refunded the full price. Once the money is refunded your paypal dispute should be resolved.
uh.... a little misunderstanding.

GW wanted me to close the dispute on my own (to give it the ok, maybe that looks better on PayPal?). When I told them I needed the product, GW ended the dispute by refunding me the money.

Therefore, it was resolved (via full refund) and after that they refused to accept my following order that I placed. get it? ;)

[-Ray-]

Glad you got your money back anyway.

[GW-Ryan]

I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner - I am in the middle of exams and time is tight.

I'm not going to rehash this particular incident, but Robert @ KBX is 100% dead on in his analysis (quoted below because I think it is valuable) - this is the exact reason I did not want to pursue the business relationship.

I fully admit that I made an error in transposing the address, and I was transparent about my error in the PayPal claim. Had the customer simply closed the claim (it can always be re-opened), I would have re-shipped the product and that would've been the end of the story.

Thank you to those of you who had kind things to say - I always do my best to provide a good product and good service at a reasonable price. My email address is in the top left corner of every page on GrafxWerks.com. I don't do phone for the reasons already suggested (plus I work full time/school part time).

This business is a hobby - I really enjoy working with enthusiasts, even if its just to design "some stickers".

Cheers,

- Ryan
GrafxWerks




Just a small offer of insight from another vendor...

We vendors deal with the gamut of people when it comes to business. After a while we tend to have to be able to get a quick feel for people when about to do business with them. We end up doing business with most, but there are those occasional few that we turn away because we see signs of future problems. Some people are too demanding, others disrespectful, others still wanting to haggle on price so far that they end up being lowballers. After a while that sense that we develop over time is meant to weed out the BS and allow us to focus on the normal people to take care of rather than wasting our time with hardheaded individuals.

While it is obvious that they messed the shipping up I did notice something that may have been the reason why they ended up turning you down for the second order. In your Paypal dispute they said that they would reship the items once the dispute was dropped. Then you countered with something along the lines of saying that you only drop the dispute after they ship the items. By you having that open dispute payment is no longer secured for the item in question. Not many business will ship merchandise without secured payment. It is just how it works with most of us. Honestly I feel bad for your situation but I cannot say that I would not have done a similar thing if I were in grafxwerks position. We business owners have to protect ourselves here too. If you only knew how many times people try to BS and scam us then you would better understand why we have to operate the way we do, by strict rules, even if it doesn't seem "cool" to do so at the moment. I believe that you were asking a little too much when you wanted them to ship the items before you dropped the dispute. After all, IF you happened to be a dishonest person then what would prevent you from just receiving the items but still continuing with Paypal to get your money back? There are two sides to every coin and I am not saying that what you did was wrong, but I think events would have unfolded more to your liking if you had refrained from that one request...

[mdogg]

Thanks for the response. I've said it before.... I completely understand the shipping mistake. As I also said, I was willing to wait another 5-10 business days for what I wanted. It's unfortunate that you saw the PayPal dispute (not even a higher-level claim) as some type of personal attack and refused to allow me to place another order fresh and separate.

That is the part that I just do not understand. I feel that it could have been handled much better from a customer service point of view.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Now that we've heard from GW-Ryan, I'm going to close this.

If either the OP or Ryan have anything NEW to add, I'll add it, just PM me.

We will not gain anything from re-hashing the same points over and over.


Thank you.