MtbDoc
04-02-2009, 08:32 AM
SUMMARY
Overall it is a well-engineered kit that integrates nicely with the stock engine bay. The blower has great potential which is under-utilized as the kit ships. The install has some issues that need to be clarified in the installation manual (which is EXTREMELY thorough; it just needs some changes). The tune as delivered is substandard. Finally, the kit does NOT ship from MagnaCharger with larger injectors. Some vendors are adding 60#ers.
DETAILS
Well, it is time for me to share my experiences with you, both good and bad. Several months ago, I asked a lot of pointed questions and raised concerns about this kit. I got a lot of flack both from a MagnaCharger representative, and some of you on these G8 boards. Ultimately I decided to give it a go. As noted here (http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=178776&postcount=19) (off-site link), I ordered a kit from Mike Haddad. He assured me I would be quite pleased and that it was a well worked out kit.
It arrived very promptly, about 3 days after ordering it. After hearing much about the updated GM factory transmission tune for this car, I decided to go to my dealer the morning I was beginning the install, figuring it would be better to do it first. Let me tell you: the transmission reflash at the dealer was a TREMENDOUS improvement. The car shifted much more quickly and with more authority. I have an early 2009 car and the difference was dramatic. So I went home to begin the install.
Early on, I began to run into a few issues that could have been better handled in the instruction manual. Some are quite minor, others less so. In terms of installation issues, these are the main concerns:
1 – The “tools required” list does NOT include an air impact wrench, even though Brian [Blown Chevy / BlownG8GT] stated that the install could be done with a basic Craftsman tool set. The issue is removing the crank bolt. Getting someone to hold the flywheel with a crowbar is necessary without an impact. Very few home installs are going to have the impact. Similarly, getting adequate torque on the new bolt is quite difficult as well. Also, there isn’t a lot of room to drill the crank and pulley for pinning, but this was easily fixed with a $20 right angle drill attachment.
2 – Several install instructions need to be re-ordered: The fuel rails have to be removed to tighten down the blower. Same with the throttle body. Coils need to be installed AFTER plugging in the injectors…anyway, you get the idea. This is an EASY solution; they simply need to edit the manual. Unfortunately the supplied manual and the online manual are old. I typed out a list of changes and Brian tells me they are working to update this.
3- No new injectors: The instructions do NOT mention removing old injectors nor installing them; they do talk of injector adapter plugs. Obviously they initially were including injectors but changed their minds. On Mar 25 Mike Haddad informed me that initially the kit was to have a 3.2” pulley and larger injectors, but they changed to a 3.3” and no injectors, presumably for cost savings. What concerned me was that I thought I was getting larger injectors based on Mike’s posts on G8board.com (for example here (http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=86062&postcount=12) (off-site link), and here (http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=71298&postcount=29) (off-site link). This should be part of the value of the kit. The ATI Procharger kit comes with 60# injectors. Livernois and Lingenfelter both mention 60# injectors with the MagnaCharger.
4 – Issues with the supplied tune: This has been my other major concern. The kit includes a Superchips tuner that has the MagnaCharger tune pre-loaded. After finishing the install, you reflash the car using this (very straightforward to do). Unfortunately it is POOR. The transmission tune is outright awful. The shifting is MUCH worse than before, with very slow downshifts. Even worse, there is a LOT of off-idle delay. The throttle tip-in apparently is set to protect the tranny from someone STOMPING on it, but even trying to gently pull out into traffic is problematic. I let off the brake from a stop sign, let the car roll, and then waited before the car responded. This is REALLY bad. As far as the engine tune, it is setup for 91 octane. Again, this is problematic as most of the country pays for 93 octane, and so performance is given up. Also, it turns out that they really haven’t adjusted the part-throttle values as I am NOT seeing any improvement in mileage day-to-day with EASY driving. Almost everyone with an aftermarket tune has had improved mileage (even with NO engine mods) due to some leaner settings. This has not been done by Magnuson.
For those purchasing a kit from Livernois or Lingenfelter, it sounds as though they supply their own tune. If there are larger injectors that would have to be the case.
After expressing my concerns to Brian, he got me in touch with their tuner, Drew. He uploaded an improved transmission tune. It is better, but clearly still has somewhat sluggish shifting and tip-in throttle reduction remains noticeable. I have emailed him back but have heard nothing in two weeks since. They can easily reload a tune (via the internet) in the handheld, so hopefully this will get resolved.
Power: ehh…it’s okay. The car feels much stronger, no question. But many people posting on these forums reflect a sentiment that 420rwhp is not enough. It doesn’t seem to take long for folks to start talking pulley, headers, boost-a-pump…and a dyno tune. And that gets right back to where I initially stood on this kit. It just is NOT cost effective in my opinion. Yes, a cam install is more labor. But folks are seeing 450rwhp and very good drivability. More power, less cost (a LOT less if one installs the cam himself). Adding the Haddad Stage II for another $3500 + dyno tune (call it an even $4k)??? Looking at 10k for 500rwhp. That is a LOT of money to put into a 30k car for a solid increase in power.
Brian @ Magnuson remains quite professional in our communications, and notes that they have sold about 130 G8 kits. His view is that most all buyers are very happy. I guess on these forums we are a “more picky” group. It seems that most people who post on these boards find themselves wanting more than the kit supplies stock. Even Brian himself found that to be the case as he had to up his boost as noted here (http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=2150).
I understand that Magnuson’s position is making California (and 50-state) street-legal kits. Maybe a “tuner kit” that doesn’t meet the standards could be useful: more boost and power from the start. But that is their decision. It is frustrating because the blower is fantastic and the overall engineering of the kit is very good as well. Other than dealing with the crank pulley installing it at home really isn’t hard. We just want/need more boost!
Overall it is a well-engineered kit that integrates nicely with the stock engine bay. The blower has great potential which is under-utilized as the kit ships. The install has some issues that need to be clarified in the installation manual (which is EXTREMELY thorough; it just needs some changes). The tune as delivered is substandard. Finally, the kit does NOT ship from MagnaCharger with larger injectors. Some vendors are adding 60#ers.
DETAILS
Well, it is time for me to share my experiences with you, both good and bad. Several months ago, I asked a lot of pointed questions and raised concerns about this kit. I got a lot of flack both from a MagnaCharger representative, and some of you on these G8 boards. Ultimately I decided to give it a go. As noted here (http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=178776&postcount=19) (off-site link), I ordered a kit from Mike Haddad. He assured me I would be quite pleased and that it was a well worked out kit.
It arrived very promptly, about 3 days after ordering it. After hearing much about the updated GM factory transmission tune for this car, I decided to go to my dealer the morning I was beginning the install, figuring it would be better to do it first. Let me tell you: the transmission reflash at the dealer was a TREMENDOUS improvement. The car shifted much more quickly and with more authority. I have an early 2009 car and the difference was dramatic. So I went home to begin the install.
Early on, I began to run into a few issues that could have been better handled in the instruction manual. Some are quite minor, others less so. In terms of installation issues, these are the main concerns:
1 – The “tools required” list does NOT include an air impact wrench, even though Brian [Blown Chevy / BlownG8GT] stated that the install could be done with a basic Craftsman tool set. The issue is removing the crank bolt. Getting someone to hold the flywheel with a crowbar is necessary without an impact. Very few home installs are going to have the impact. Similarly, getting adequate torque on the new bolt is quite difficult as well. Also, there isn’t a lot of room to drill the crank and pulley for pinning, but this was easily fixed with a $20 right angle drill attachment.
2 – Several install instructions need to be re-ordered: The fuel rails have to be removed to tighten down the blower. Same with the throttle body. Coils need to be installed AFTER plugging in the injectors…anyway, you get the idea. This is an EASY solution; they simply need to edit the manual. Unfortunately the supplied manual and the online manual are old. I typed out a list of changes and Brian tells me they are working to update this.
3- No new injectors: The instructions do NOT mention removing old injectors nor installing them; they do talk of injector adapter plugs. Obviously they initially were including injectors but changed their minds. On Mar 25 Mike Haddad informed me that initially the kit was to have a 3.2” pulley and larger injectors, but they changed to a 3.3” and no injectors, presumably for cost savings. What concerned me was that I thought I was getting larger injectors based on Mike’s posts on G8board.com (for example here (http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=86062&postcount=12) (off-site link), and here (http://www.g8board.com/forums/showpost.php?p=71298&postcount=29) (off-site link). This should be part of the value of the kit. The ATI Procharger kit comes with 60# injectors. Livernois and Lingenfelter both mention 60# injectors with the MagnaCharger.
4 – Issues with the supplied tune: This has been my other major concern. The kit includes a Superchips tuner that has the MagnaCharger tune pre-loaded. After finishing the install, you reflash the car using this (very straightforward to do). Unfortunately it is POOR. The transmission tune is outright awful. The shifting is MUCH worse than before, with very slow downshifts. Even worse, there is a LOT of off-idle delay. The throttle tip-in apparently is set to protect the tranny from someone STOMPING on it, but even trying to gently pull out into traffic is problematic. I let off the brake from a stop sign, let the car roll, and then waited before the car responded. This is REALLY bad. As far as the engine tune, it is setup for 91 octane. Again, this is problematic as most of the country pays for 93 octane, and so performance is given up. Also, it turns out that they really haven’t adjusted the part-throttle values as I am NOT seeing any improvement in mileage day-to-day with EASY driving. Almost everyone with an aftermarket tune has had improved mileage (even with NO engine mods) due to some leaner settings. This has not been done by Magnuson.
For those purchasing a kit from Livernois or Lingenfelter, it sounds as though they supply their own tune. If there are larger injectors that would have to be the case.
After expressing my concerns to Brian, he got me in touch with their tuner, Drew. He uploaded an improved transmission tune. It is better, but clearly still has somewhat sluggish shifting and tip-in throttle reduction remains noticeable. I have emailed him back but have heard nothing in two weeks since. They can easily reload a tune (via the internet) in the handheld, so hopefully this will get resolved.
Power: ehh…it’s okay. The car feels much stronger, no question. But many people posting on these forums reflect a sentiment that 420rwhp is not enough. It doesn’t seem to take long for folks to start talking pulley, headers, boost-a-pump…and a dyno tune. And that gets right back to where I initially stood on this kit. It just is NOT cost effective in my opinion. Yes, a cam install is more labor. But folks are seeing 450rwhp and very good drivability. More power, less cost (a LOT less if one installs the cam himself). Adding the Haddad Stage II for another $3500 + dyno tune (call it an even $4k)??? Looking at 10k for 500rwhp. That is a LOT of money to put into a 30k car for a solid increase in power.
Brian @ Magnuson remains quite professional in our communications, and notes that they have sold about 130 G8 kits. His view is that most all buyers are very happy. I guess on these forums we are a “more picky” group. It seems that most people who post on these boards find themselves wanting more than the kit supplies stock. Even Brian himself found that to be the case as he had to up his boost as noted here (http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=2150).
I understand that Magnuson’s position is making California (and 50-state) street-legal kits. Maybe a “tuner kit” that doesn’t meet the standards could be useful: more boost and power from the start. But that is their decision. It is frustrating because the blower is fantastic and the overall engineering of the kit is very good as well. Other than dealing with the crank pulley installing it at home really isn’t hard. We just want/need more boost!