Removing DOD hardware & fitting a larger camshaft

[Crazy Paul]

The L76 6.0 engine is an LS2 engine block with good flowing L92 cylinder heads, a 90mm LS3 intake manifold and 40ish lb/hr LS7 injectors. There's lots of performance potential there in a Pontiac G8-GT, unfortunately in stock form it's also fitted with AFM or Displacement on Demand hardware.

This AFM hardware includes a tiny camshaft(200/208......0.472"/0.479") which has a different grind on cylinders 1, 4, 6 and 7 than the "normal" cylinders. Also fitted to cylinders 1, 4, 6 and 7 are De-Ac lifters , while the remaining cylinders use conventional lifters.

Those of you who are not concerned by powertrain warranty implications and wish to free up the performance potential of the 6.0 L76 may at some stage wish to remove the AFM Hardware and install a performance camshaft.

Here's the hardware involved :

[Crazy Paul]

1) Custom Camshaft. This will be the same as any normal LS1 type camshaft with a 3 bolt core from manufacturers such as Comp. Typically you'd wan't something with a split favouring the exhaust but with minimal overlap.
Something like below will normally achieve close to 450rwhp in this combo.
224@.050int, 230@.050exh
.581int, .590exh LSA 114
[Note PTV clearance must be checked in every case]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/img-1477-large.jpg


2) 12586481
Camshaft Sprocket
• Fits LS1, LS2 and LS6
• 4X camshaft gear
• 3-bolt design;
uses (3) bolts P/N 12556127

3) 12588670
LS2 Timing Chain Dampener
• Production LS2 Dampener
• For use with standard oil pumps
Re-use the 2x fasteners from the L76 chain tensioner.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/2007SPROCKET20KIT.jpg

[Crazy Paul]

4) Valve Spring Kit (typically dual spring) to match or exceed valve lift.
Example:
Patriot Gold .650" Lift Dual spring Kit PAT8401

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/patriot8401.jpg


5) Chrome Moly Pushrod Kit. Consult with your engine builder to determine the correct length of pushrods....this will depend upon the base circle of the chosen camshaft & other possible geometry changes such as head gasket thickness and any head milling.

Example:
Comp Cams CC7955-16 7.400" 5/16" 0.080"WT

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/b567_1.jpg



6) Valve Lifters

Example:
12499225
LS Series Camshaft Lifter Kit
• Set of 16 lifters for LS series engines
• Same lifter used in LS2 and LS7

or

88958689
Racing Hydraulic Roller Lifter Kit
• As developed by GM Racing and GM Powertrain
• For use in Gen III and Gen IV engines where sustained
high rpm’s are typical
• Special reduced-mass internal components allow for
higher limiting speeds with aggressive camshaft designs
• Improved valvetrain dynamics and stability will improve
horsepower, and high rpm’s
• Tested to 8000 rpm in GM Racing applications
• Set of 16

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/nal-12499225_w.jpg

[Crazy Paul]

7) 12610046
LS3, L92 Head Gasket
• Single gasket, (2) required
• For LS3 and L92 engines
• .051" thick
• 4.080" max bore
• Standard LS bolt pattern

8) 17800568
Cylinder Head Bolt Kit
• Kit of 15 bolts for LS Series engines produced from
January 2004 and later
• Bolts are 5mm shorter than previous design
(2) required

or

ARP134-3610 Hex head bolt kit, 2004 & up LS1/LS6/LS2
(1) set per engine required.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/ARP134-3610_detail.jpg


9) 12558573
LS Series Header Gaskets Pair



http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/gaskets-1.jpg

[Crazy Paul]

10)
12570471 LS2 Valley Cover
or
12599296 LS3 Valley plate.


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/LS2valleycover1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/valleycoverunder.jpg

Those 8x O rings underneath block off the previous oil supply from the L76 Lifter Oil Manifold Assembly to the Collapsible DOD Lifters. Some engine builders additionally like to tap threads into these galleries and plug them with (Qty 8) 1/8"NPT allen plugs.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/Plugs202839020x2029229.jpg



11) PCV Hose - Dirty Air (as per LS2)
Part# for the LS2 dirty air hose is 12594779
It goes from the LS2 valley cover to the side of the intake manifold.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/214ac0a3-34be-4c8a-98e7-3d63.jpg


12) Plug (as per LS2)
*Part# for the LS2 Plug is 12579145*
The existing L76 PCV outlet on the drivers side rear valve cover needs to be plugged.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/LS2-600.jpg

Plug....Bottom left in this pic.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/P1010015.jpg


13) 17803305
Lifter Guide Kit
• Includes (4x) lifter guides and (4x) bolts
• Makes for quick and easy cam swaps without having to
remove the intake manifold, valley plate or heads
• Works in Gen III and IV applications (except with AFM)

or

LS2 Lifter Guides 12595365 (Qty 4 req).

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/0707gm_40_zblue_collar_workhorse.jpg


14)
12557840
Crankshaft (Harmonic Balancer) Bolt

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/nal-12557840.jpg



Additional consideration should be given to the DOD oiling system.
The L76 oil pump displaces 1.24"/rev compared to non-DOD 6.0 engines (LS2 and L98) which have 0.95"/rev oil pumps.

There is also a DOD specific oil pressure relief valve inside the oil pan. When main oil pressure exceeds 55psi this relief valve exhausts excess oil to the sump.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/DOD20Pressure20Regulator.jpg

[GRRRR8]

That about sums up all the parts have ordered!

[Steve]

Awesome post!

[EcoBrick Bob]

And... Paul does all of this up...side...down.... from Perth....AU!

I am now only dazed and confused......

Have you seen the number of posts he has on some of the other LS websites???



RRM

[Blackdevil77]

Nice post. Now that am scared out of my mind, how much would you charge to do this for me. lol. Jk. Awsome post though. When you get it done, i'd love to see some numbers and 1/4 times.

[Crazy Paul]

And... Paul does all of this up...side...down.... from Perth....AU!
I am now only dazed and confused......
Have you seen the number of posts he has on some of the other LS websites???
RRM

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/under.jpg

I deleted about 50 mostly useful posts off one board recently (oops...te-he), and I use a different username on the Aussie forums.

:whistle:

[88ls1blazer]

so should there be a change in the relief valve?

[Crazy Paul]

so should there be a change in the relief valve?

That's something we've yet to find out. We only received the tech info on the relief valve yesterday.

[Crazy Paul]

Dyno Sim Results (flywheel HP)

Yellow = 10.9 CR .......Cam 224/230 .581/.590 112 [FWHP]
Blue = 10.9 CR .......Cam 224/230 .581/.590 112 [TQ]
Red = 10.9 CR .......Cam 220/220 .581/.581 112 [FWHP]
Green = 10.9 CR .......Cam 220/220 .581/.581 112 [TQ]

10.9 CR is L92 heads milled 0.030" on a 6.0 block.
http://www.hsv-gts.ls2.com/_10.9.jpg



Yellow = 10.4 CR .......Cam 224/230 .581/.590 112 [FWHP]
Blue = 10.4 CR .......Cam 224/230 .581/.590 112 [TQ]
Red = 10.4 CR .......Cam 220/220 .581/.581 112 [FWHP]
Green = 10.4 CR .......Cam 220/220 .581/.581 112 [TQ]

10.4 CR is stock L92 heads on a 6.0 block.
http://www.hsv-gts.ls2.com/_10.4.jpg



Real world RWHP results in a 2006 GTO
LS2 6.0 Block
Cam 224/230 .581/.590 114
CR 10.4 (unmilled, untouched L92 heads)
http://www.hsv-gts.ls2.com/beachgoatdynograph-1000.jpg

[GeorgeInNePa]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/valleycoverunder.jpg

Those 8x O rings underneath block off the previous oil supply from the L76 Lifter Oil Manifold Assembly to the Collapsible DOD Lifters. Some engine builders additionally like to tap threads into these galleries and plug them with (Qty 8) 1/8"NPT allen plugs.

Do we need to worry about this?




Additional consideration should be given to the DOD oiling system.
The L76 oil pump displaces 1.24"/rev compared to non-DOD 6.0 engines (LS2 and L98) which have 0.95"/rev oil pumps.

There is also a DOD specific oil pressure relief valve inside the oil pan. When main oil pressure exceeds 55psi this relief valve exhausts excess oil to the sump.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/DOD20Pressure20Regulator.jpg

What about this?

[GRRRR8]

Yes you will replace that in pic 1. I already have that. Pic 2, well the jury is out, but it is a oil relief that wont let oil psi exceed 55psi. I am pretty sure I will pull the motor in mine. I will have the trans out for the converter, might as well do it all on a stand then in the car. That way I can do new rear main, upgrade oil pump, heads,cam, double roller t-chain all at once.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Yes you will replace that in pic 1. I already have that. Pic 2, well the jury is out, but it is a oil relief that wont let oil psi exceed 55psi. I am pretty sure I will pull the motor in mine. I will have the trans out for the converter, might as well do it all on a stand then in the car. That way I can do new rear main, upgrade oil pump, heads,cam, double roller t-chain all at once.

I meant going so far as to tap and plug those oil holes instead of relying on the o-rings.

[Crazy Paul]

I meant going so far as to tap and plug those oil holes instead of relying on the o-rings.

That's going to be down to the personal preference of your engine builder. Some like to do it with all Gen4 blocks. The plugs might cost eg $20 and an hour to tap the threads...so it's not a huge deal to perform for that extra piece of mind.


I was thinking about the L76 high volume oil pump (1.24in/rev) V LS2/L98 oil pump (0.95in/rev). You guys with the G8-GT wont have to worry about changing the oil pump if you remove the DOD hardware. G8-GT has an 8+ litre oil pan.

The reason it was a problem for some in OZ is because we used the L76 to retrofit into older cars. Up until the start of 2006 the Holdens and HSV's had the front sump oilpan (to clear the steering rack) which held a total of 5.7 or 6 litres.
Now with an L76 with DOD hardware removed + an oil pump which pumped about 18% more volume than normal, combined with only a 6 litre front pick-up sump......under certain conditions it was possible to pump the sump dry.
[I remember now reading about a guy who found this out while doing a really long burnout going up a hill].
I guess for burnout man, most of his oil was at the rear of the old 6L sump away from the front pick-up.......then the L76 oil pump was pumping the only available oil to the top of the engine, faster than it could drain back to the pick-up at the front of the engine.

[GRRRR8]

I meant going so far as to tap and plug those oil holes instead of relying on the o-rings.

I am contimplating doing this if I pull the engine. It will not require any further disaaembly and out of the car will make it a breeze and will eliminate EVER having a issue.

[jbradsh1]

Anyone know the specs on the LS3 hot cam?

[GRRRR8]

anyone know the specs on the ls3 hot cam?

219/228.......525/525........112

[jbradsh1]

Thanks. Can you interpret the numbers for me? I am thinking about doing a cam upgrade along with loosing the DOD but I don't want to change my current mods (Kooks shorties, R-F, hsrk). So I'm thinking a mild to medium street cam. What do ya think?

[Andy@Livernois]

the only issue's with the hot cams is they are rather lopey for their size because of the tight LSA, usually L76/L92/LS3 stuff like 114-115 LSA's from what we have seen in our tests

[wreckwriter]

Lope is good as long as its not really heavy.

[GRRRR8]

If it makes 480hp/475tq with manifolds, non ported intake/TB, 10.9 compression, what will a HOT cam do in a car like mine? To me its a no brainer. 540 at the crank should be very easy with 11.1, cleaned up heads w/better valves, ported intake and TB as well as the 1 7/8 headers. Tell me I am wrong.

[Blackdevil77]

If it makes 480hp/475tq with manifolds, non ported intake/TB, 10.9 compression, what will a HOT cam do in a car like mine? To me its a no brainer. 540 at the crank should be very easy with 11.1, cleaned up heads w/better valves, ported intake and TB as well as the 1 7/8 headers. Tell me I am wrong.

How much torque till the tranny calls it quit's?

[GRRRR8]

I want to keep mine right at 500ish. The Vettes are doing it, but the strain on ours is launching a 4000lb car.

[Andy@Livernois]

If it makes 480hp/475tq with manifolds, non ported intake/TB, 10.9 compression, what will a HOT cam do in a car like mine? To me its a no brainer. 540 at the crank should be very easy with 11.1, cleaned up heads w/better valves, ported intake and TB as well as the 1 7/8 headers. Tell me I am wrong.

I am assuming that is flywheel power? I don't know. Maybe I have a abd taste in my mouth against hot cams. The LS6 hot cam I had in my camaro sucked bad. Luckily I didn't invest into that cam, but driveability was bad considering the size, and it made less horse by a long shot then our stage 1 cam does.

Don't get me wrong I am interested in seeing what a hot cam will do. But in my experiences the hotcams have always had bad driveability compared to more aggressive profiles, and are soft on power. We also lose a good bit of flow having a .070 smaller bore then an LS3.

[jbradsh1]

the only issue's with the hot cams is they are rather lopey for their size because of the tight LSA, usually L76/L92/LS3 stuff like 114-115 LSA's from what we have seen in our tests

So Andy, what would you recommend for my set-up (see post just above yours)? I want to get a few opinions so I can make a good decision. Thanks in advance.

[Andy@Livernois]

I would say our stage 1 cam it's 224/230 .581/.590 on a 114 LSA. This is the cam we designed when using L92 heads on an LS2 shortblock with an L76 intake. Esentially the L76 motor in the G8 is all of these things, it has a slightly smaller bore then an LS2.

This is why HSV put these exact specs in this thread. It is a cam very suited for this setup w/ very good performance gains.

[jbradsh1]

Thanks very much. Can I assume this is a non-DOD cam, i.e., you remove the DOD valvetrain?

[jbradsh1]

And, almost forgot, what kind of power would you expect with the stage one cam? I am at 337 rwhp (mustang dyno) with my current set-up.

[GRRRR8]

I am assuming that is flywheel power? I don't know. Maybe I have a abd taste in my mouth against hot cams. The LS6 hot cam I had in my camaro sucked bad. Luckily I didn't invest into that cam, but driveability was bad considering the size, and it made less horse by a long shot then our stage 1 cam does.

Don't get me wrong I am interested in seeing what a hot cam will do. But in my experiences the hotcams have always had bad driveability compared to more aggressive profiles, and are soft on power. We also lose a good bit of flow having a .070 smaller bore then an LS3.
Yes that is at the crank. Yes the LS6 HOT cam got a bad rap, but like so many other things in life, if you had the LS6 heads and intake they ran really good for a factory cam. Most put this cam in LS1s and 2s that had shit heads and intakes and went "this cam sucks!" DUH! 12 cubic inches isnt enough of a difference to depict more then 12 HP difference if that. The factory GTO cam is like .520 lift from I read with less duration, but it is rated at 400HP. So a GTO cam in our motors would have a factory idle and since our heads and intakes are better then the GTOs I would guess that a nice 50-60 HP gain with a tune. Now add up all the other mods and we are back to the no brainer. This cam is for testing to show that power can be made with a GM cam, and if you had to go to battle over a failure it sure would be easier with all GM parts. Yes it has been done! This wont be the final cam in the car either. I want a 402 with your stage 2 cam some real good L92s.
1st I want to see how far the trans,driveshaft and diff can be pushed.

[Crazy Paul]

Here's some stock GM numbers for comparison sake.

08/09 L76 6.0 ---->200/208......0.472"/0.479" (D.O.D. grind)

MY01 LS6 5.7 ---->204/211......0.525"/0.525"

MY02 LS6 5.7 ---->204/218......0.551"/0.547"

MY05 LS2 6.0 ---->204/211......0.525"/0.525"

MY06 LS7 7.0 ---->210/230......0.593"/0.589"

MY08 LS3 6.2 ---->204/211......0.551"/0.525"




LS3 Hotcam ---->219/228.......525/525........112

[Crazy Paul]

I want a 402 with your stage 2 cam some real good L92s and a FAST 92 intake.

FAST 92 won't bolt up to L92 heads.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/gifs/monkeysmile.gif

[Andy@Livernois]

yet... the way charlie is holding off on this cam swap maybe they will have released it by then :D

[Andy@Livernois]

Thanks very much. Can I assume this is a non-DOD cam, i.e., you remove the DOD valvetrain?

This is a non-dod cam, you are correct...


And, almost forgot, what kind of power would you expect with the stage one cam? I am at 337 rwhp (mustang dyno) with my current set-up.

On the Applications we have run it on it usually makes about 410-440 RWHP depending on other mods... The key is driveability is great, just a hint of lope, and it has a very broad power band. something as heavy as these cars will greatly benefit from that...

[SFC]

yet... the way charlie is holding off on this cam swap maybe they will have released it by then :D


You know if charlie doesn't want to take free parts from you I will.

[jbradsh1]

This is a non-dod cam, you are correct...

On the Applications we have run it on it usually makes about 410-440 RWHP depending on other mods... The key is driveability is great, just a hint of lope, and it has a very broad power band. something as heavy as these cars will greatly benefit from that...

Thanks again! This cam with the specs you listed (224/230 .581/.590 on a 114 LSA) maybe just what I'm looking for. A good streetable cam with broad improvements to the power band (not just upper mid to top end). If I'm reading the specs right, doesn't this cam have much more overlap? And excuse the ignorance but what does LSA mean? Thanks again Andy.

[jbradsh1]

Andy; By the way, how would your stage one cam compare to a cam with the following specs: 22x/22x .595/.590 11x LSA ... can you point out the differences between this cam and the one you're recommending so as to better educate us laymen out here!?

[jbradsh1]

Answered one of my own questions. LSA = lobe separation angle!

[Blackdevil77]

This is a non-dod cam, you are correct...



On the Applications we have run it on it usually makes about 410-440 RWHP depending on other mods... The key is driveability is great, just a hint of lope, and it has a very broad power band. something as heavy as these cars will greatly benefit from that...

I'm sorry what cam is this again? your talkin' almost a 100 RWHP gain. Do you have a package with this cam with all the supporting parts?

[GRRRR8]

FAST 92 won't bolt up to L92 heads.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/gifs/monkeysmile.gif

There is an article out about a FAST intake for L92 heads unless I read it wrong.

[GRRRR8]

yet... the way charlie is holding off on this cam swap maybe they will have released it by then :D

With the hurricane and being short handed I am a little behind, plus I still am working on getting a set of heads that are already done so the swap will be faster. I cant sacrifice a 6 digit income for modding or there will be no more modding! lol

[Crazy Paul]

There is an article out about a FAST intake for L92 heads unless I read it wrong.

Yes everyman and their dog (Weiand,Holley/FAST, Starr (Aust)) are working on one.
Just saying FAST 92 is not the one.

[Andy@Livernois]

Thanks again! This cam with the specs you listed (224/230 .581/.590 on a 114 LSA) maybe just what I'm looking for. A good streetable cam with broad improvements to the power band (not just upper mid to top end). If I'm reading the specs right, doesn't this cam have much more overlap? And excuse the ignorance but what does LSA mean? Thanks again Andy.

There is a bit more overlap then stock, but it still maintains very good driveability


Andy; By the way, how would your stage one cam compare to a cam with the following specs: 22x/22x .595/.590 11x LSA ... can you point out the differences between this cam and the one you're recommending so as to better educate us laymen out here!?

Reverse split cams do not lend themselves well w/ L92 heads. The intake flows so much more then the exhaust you need the help on the exhaust side...


I'm sorry what cam is this again? your talkin' almost a 100 RWHP gain. Do you have a package with this cam with all the supporting parts?

This would be a stage 1 cam, combined with the supporting mods... the cam by itself would of course not make that kind of power. So 1 7/8 headers, CAI, exhaust... those kinds of things. The cam itself would probably add 50-75 from the cars we have done...


With the hurricane and being short handed I am a little behind, plus I still am working on getting a set of heads that are already done so the swap will be faster. I cant sacrifice a 6 digit income for modding or there will be no more modding! lol

excuses excuses :D

[Crazy Paul]

Cam overlap calculator:

http://hsv-gts.ls2.com/cam%20overlap%20calculator.xls

[Cliffy]

11) PCV Hose - Dirty Air (as per LS2)
Sorry I don't have the Part Number for this.
It goes from the LS2 valley cover to the side of the intake manifold.

Part# for the LS2 dirty air hose is 12594779



12) Plug (as per LS2)
Sorry I don't have the Part Number for this.
The existing L76 PCV outlet on the drivers side rear valve cover needs to be plugged.


Part# for the LS2 Plug is 12579145

if anyone is interested.

[Crazy Paul]

if anyone is interested.

You bet we are !!!
Thanks Cliffy.

http://smiliesftw.com/x/nigepsflip.gif

[GRRRR8]

Thanks Cliffy!

[MtbDoc]

I asked the same question on 'the other board' but realized this is where I intended to ask: Andy (and others?) what sort of impact on gas mileage w/ a cam of this duration have (not hard driving...that I CLEARLY understand!) for daily driver use? Particularly highway cruising? This is fairly important, and why I've been a fan of boost + stock cams.

[Crazy Paul]

Doc,

A guy fitted the L92 heads (untouched) and L76 intake + Livernois Stage 1 (224/230) to an LS2 GTO with manual 6 speed.
[Fairly similar weight car to G8-GT]

In daily driving he lost 1-2 mpg from stock LS2. Not bad considering he picked up about 100rwhp. Even whilst his Comp ratio took a hit from 10.9 to 10.4 CR.

425ish rwhp straight out of the box
452 rwhp final tune.


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/beachgoatdynograph.jpg

[GRRRR8]

I cant answer for Andy, but I believe their stage 1 will go 20+mpgs driving sane as I expect the HOT cam to also. The/My issue with the DOD is the lifters are not gonna take it. If I make 3 hard passes I hear mine with ease. Those lifters were not designed for 6k plus operation, thats why when we get tuned it wakes up so much. 400 more rpms added to the band. The regular lifters are fine. I look at it like if the lifters cant take it, but the engine likes to rev, fix and improve and you will run with the boosted cars due to lack of traction and breakage.

[Andy@Livernois]

Doc,

A guy fitted the L92 heads (untouched) and L76 intake + Livernois Stage 1 (224/230) to an LS2 GTO with manual 6 speed.
[Fairly similar weight car to G8-GT]

In daily driving he lost 1-2 mpg from stock LS2. Not bad considering he picked up about 100rwhp. Still running 10.4 CR.

425ish rwhp straight out of the box
452 rwhp final tune.



Hey, this guy didn't happen to buy that cam when he was visiting the states did he? I sold an L92 stage 1 cam to someone visiting from Australia about 4-5 months ago with a nearly identical car, well, Monaro... anyways, I was just wondering if this happened to be him...

[Andy@Livernois]

I will be upfront, I can't answer about a G8 with this cam... I don't know the exact mileage. But on our customer's LS2 car with this cam he still gets 27mpg highway compared to the 28-29 when it was stock. And that was with a supercharger as well...

[Crazy Paul]

Hey, this guy didn't happen to buy that cam when he was visiting the states did he? I sold an L92 stage 1 cam to someone visiting from Australia about 4-5 months ago with a nearly identical car, well, Monaro... anyways, I was just wondering if this happened to be him...

LOL No.
For some reason Aussie dynos show about 40rwhp shy of their brothers in USA. For that reason it's difficult to compare results. Put a bone stock LS2 400hp on a dyno here and you get 300rwhp......same car,same make of dyno in USA it gets 340rwhp.

The example I gave was from a really great guy called Keith from Virginia Beach, Virginia. It's a 2006 GTO, he goes by the handle "Beach Goat" on ls1gto.com

[GeorgeInNePa]

LOL No.
For some reason Aussie dynos show about 40rwhp shy of their brothers in USA. For that reason it's difficult to compare results. Put a bone stock LS2 400hp on a dyno here and you get 300rwhp......same car,same make of dyno in USA it gets 340rwhp.


Well, duh! It's because you're running them upside down!


:D


;)

[Crazy Paul]

Well, duh! It's because you're running them upside down!
:D
;)

Careful, I've probably got your address.....I could mail you some "wildlife".

:no:

[GeorgeInNePa]

Note to self:

Burn all packages from "Down Under".


lol

[MtbDoc]

This REALLY sounds like an interesting option. I need to go back and review the parts list/cost for everything needed. Labor-wise, bolting on a blower is a bit more simple, so I'd have to factor that in. Let's see, I last swapped a cam in my '66 Mustang in 1979. Getting the cam out of that engine was simple...but good grief, there is a LOT more crap to take off of a new car.

Intake, cam, headers/exhaust...tune...

Oh, wait! I've got to factor in the cost of speeding tickets. I already got my first one in this stupid car in less than a week. I honestly had NO IDEA I was traveling 84 in a 55 zone. Just moving a bit faster than traffic and got laser'd. The cop was pretty nice and dropped it down to 64 AFTER asking "what kind of a car is this?" with a smile on his face (no rear Pontiac badges for me).

[GRRRR8]

Careful, I've probably got your address.....I could mail you some "wildlife".

:no:

LMAO! No extras with my last order please!

[SS Enforcer]

Careful, I've probably got your address.....I could mail you some "wildlife".

:no:


A few drop bears should do it :poke:


cheers

[Crazy Paul]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/motiv/motivator665777.jpg

[pha|anx]

LOL! semi-bump. a side note, this is a great thread with lots of good info for those curious.

:D

[94guy]

does anyone know the camsensor part# to use on the L99

[Darkmanx]

so at what point would you need to swap valve springs and retainers since there not standard the dod delete kit.

[Crazy Paul]

so at what point would you need to swap valve springs and retainers since there not standard the dod delete kit.

This is not the area to be trying to save a buck.

Stock valve springs shouldn't be asked to do anything other than work with a stock cam IMO.
Apart from the low max lift rating, they also have low tension numbers which won't control a big heavy intake valve for long once you upgrade the cam.(Increase ramp rates, accels and decels)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/L76stockspring.jpg

[Darkmanx]

This is not the area to be trying to save a buck.

Stock valve springs shouldn't be asked to do anything other than work with a stock cam IMO.
Apart from the low max lift rating, they also have low tension numbers which won't control a big heavy intake valve for long once you upgrade the cam.(Increase ramp rates, accels and decels)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/L76stockspring.jpg

wasnt trying to save just curious why some vendors offer them and some dont.

[2QUIK4U]

wasnt trying to save just curious why some vendors offer them and some dont.

I have never seen a cam kit for sale that didnt include or require the springs to be changed. Even DOD cam kits require stiffer springs.

[Darkmanx]

IS it required to switch the oil pump and chain or is it just a good idea?

[-Ray-]

IS it required to switch the oil pump and chain or is it just a good idea?

Oil pump was not switched out on my cam swap. I forget if the chain was replaced.

[Darkmanx]

The oil pump is a high pressure /low volume pump isn't it kind of worthless and could cause a problem ?

[-Ray-]

Actually the stock oil pump is a hi flow oil pump.

[Crazy Paul]

Actually the stock oil pump is a hi flow oil pump.

Yes it's a high volume pump. It pumps about 20% more gallons per hour than a standard LS oil pump.
The extra volume is only required because of AFM hardware (solenoids in the valley plate) and there is an extra pressure relief valve inside the oil pan to protect the AFM gear from high pressures.
The AFM relief valve is additional to the relief valve already part of the oil pump itself.
The AFM relief is set to start bleeding away oil pressure at 55psi (cracking pressure) and to not allow oil pressure to build past 75psi (full lift pressure).

If you understand any of that you'll see that any talk of having or installing a high pressure oil pump, while keeping the AFM relief valve in the oil pan, is just crazy talk.

[Crazy Paul]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/oilpump.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/11111Midasb.jpg

NB: Anyone considering using an L76 engine for transplant into something other than a G8 should be wary of the high volume oilpump. The G8 uses a large volume oilpan and the engine has a large circulating oil volume. If anyone were to install a smaller oilpan to fit in a kit-car or different model to G8 then the risk is great that the stock high volume oilpump can pump a non-G8 oilpan dry.
(Yes, people have already done that).

[bradshow]

Forgive me in this question doesn't neccesarily fit into this thread but it is related to the stock cam and hardware:

For those of us that are running with DOD off in our tunes, is this technically putting additional stress on the DOD lifters? Since they are pressurized with oil and all. Guess I'm just thinking out loud but obviously GM didn't intend for a DOD car to run 100% in V8 mode.

[Crazy Paul]

For those of us that are running with DOD off in our tunes, is this technically putting additional stress on the DOD lifters? Since they are pressurized with oil and all. Guess I'm just thinking out loud but obviously GM didn't intend for a DOD car to run 100% in V8 mode.

No extra stress. They actually work the opposite way to what you are thinking. Pressurized oil is sent down a gallery to collapse the lifter when AFM is commanded on.

Holden ran L76's with AFM hardware but no software in some production VZ cars in 2006.
They are now doing a very similar thing in 2011. Instead of having L76 with AFM in automatics & L98's with no AFM hardware in manual cars .....now they have the one engine L77 (L76 with flex fuel capability) which is used in both manual and auto Series 2 VE's.
So any manual Series 2 Holden VE with a V8 will be running with AFM hardware fitted but never being used.

[bradshow]

Ok, thats good to know. I've been running DOD off for about 10k now and was curious as to if it may have contributed to my lifter failure. Thanks

[Darkmanx]

So I'm switching to the melling oil pump since it flows more

[2QUIK4U]

So I'm switching to the melley oil pump since it flows more

There is no need. As mentioned the stock ump is already a high volume pump.

[Daniel Linnett]

Where does the cam position sensor go??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Daniel Linnett]

I am trying to assemble the 418 right now and need to figure out where the cam position sensor goes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Crazy Paul]

I am trying to assemble the 418 right now and need to figure out where the cam position sensor goes
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Front timing cover, same as on your original engine.

[Daniel Linnett]

Found out I had the wrong cam gear. I bought when I was doin did swap in stock block do ls2 was needed. I have to have a ls3 cam gear. Driving to Dallas 200 miles this afternoon topic it up.

[Crazy Paul]

Found out I had the wrong cam gear. I bought when I was doin did swap in stock block do ls2 was needed. I have to have a ls3 cam gear. Driving to Dallas 200 miles this afternoon topic it up.

Something so simple, and the same mistake keeps happening over and over again.
Was this the same block I read about somewhere that had to have the crank reluctor changed from 24x to 58x?

[Crazy Paul]

In a G8 you need TypeA if your new cam has one large centre bolt at the front, or TypeB if your new cam has 3 small bolts at the front.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/CamSprockets.jpg

[Daniel Linnett]

Yep

[kendall.alston]

..... I really need to start reading these stickies.... definitely would have saved a shit ton of time and researching while looking for my cam and etc... Sorry for all the noob questions before guys lol

[metoo]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/DOD20Pressure20Regulator.jpg

So who here has pulled this valve and replaced it with a plug? Do you know what thread it is?

[Crazy Paul]

So who here has pulled this valve and replaced it with a plug? Do you know what thread it is?

The VE & G8-GT relief valves are slightly different and not on the floor of the oilpan like in that pic above.
Yours sit up on a pedestal and the valve has a more rounded exterior appearance.

Give me half a day and I'll grab one, photograph & measure the threads.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/9f85ee35-1.jpg

[Crazy Paul]

Give me half a day and I'll grab one, photograph & measure the threads.


Uggh I struck out.
A friend had 2x V8 oilpans each with the relief valves the last time I was there. Just went back and 1 is now fitted to an engine and he can't find the other one.
There's none of the relief valves (GM#12608835) in stock locally for me to borrow and measure.

[-Ray-]

Send it to me, I'll measure it for you.

[G8GT721]

are new bolts required for lifter guides and rockers?

[Crazy Paul]

are new bolts required for lifter guides and rockers?
No & No.

[ULTRA Z]

if i get this http://www.texas-speed.com/p-644-n-motion-ls3-single-roller-timing-set.aspx


will i still need to get this ?
2) 12586481
Camshaft Sprocket
• Fits LS1, LS2 and LS6
• 4X camshaft gear
• 3-bolt design;
uses (3) bolts P/N 12556127

i'm trying to gather all my stuff up but don't want extra parts lol thanks i got 77,000 plus miles so i figured i might as well change it :)

[Crazy Paul]

if i get this http://www.texas-speed.com/p-644-n-motion-ls3-single-roller-timing-set.aspx
will i still need to get this ?
2) 12586481

No, provided they send you the correct timing kit as per description.
(Sprocket in kit needs to have 4 timing lumps, check before installing).

[ULTRA Z]

thanks its getting cheaper and cheaper lol if i would have got a price on all this from my dealer i would have done this in 2009 lol its really not that bad $$$

[Crazy Paul]

So who here has pulled this valve and replaced it with a plug? Do you know what thread it is?

Here you go.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/valve.jpg

Originally the GM AFM relief valve was Part Number 12594579, this was superceded in June 2006 by the new current Part Number 12608835.
The valve has a diameter of 19mm and has a hexagonal 17mm AF section at the top.
Underhead length is 14mm with only 11.5mm of it being threaded, the lower 2.5mm has no thread.
The thread is M14 x 1.50mm

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/9f85ee35-2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/P2090001.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/P1010192.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/P1010194-1.jpg


A suitable plug IMO would be the Dorman Auto Grade Oil-Tite Drain Plug Part No 65386.
This plug comes with a copper crush washer to seal the thread.
65386 thread is M14 x 1.50
Hex head is 19mm AF
Underhead length is 12.3mm (you lose about 1.5mm of thread engagement due to the thickness of the copper crush washer, so the 65386 will still utilise the approx 11 mm depth of thread as the original valve).

Dorman 65386
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/Dorman65386-001.jpg

[hflores3]

The larger capacity ZL1 oil pan that Greg @ Pace had been selling.....wouldn't that come without the GM AFM releif plug? I've got one of those in the garage -- that my be my ticket - eh?

[Chewy]

Great thread! It's really enlightened me on the whole project of cam swaps. This is something I'll be doing as soon as I take delivery of my new DD this spring.

[TLS]

Here you go.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/valve.jpg

Originally the GM AFM relief valve was Part Number 12594579, this was superceded in June 2006 by the new current Part Number 12608835.
The valve has a diameter of 19mm and has a hexagonal 17mm AF section at the top.
Underhead length is 14mm with only 11.5mm of it being threaded, the lower 2.5mm has no thread.
The thread is M14 x 1.50mm

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/9f85ee35-2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/P2090001.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/P1010192.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/P1010194-1.jpg


A suitable plug IMO would be the Dorman Auto Grade Oil-Tite Drain Plug Part No 65386.
This plug comes with a copper crush washer to seal the thread.
65386 thread is M14 x 1.50
Hex head is 19mm AF
Underhead length is 12.3mm (you lose about 1.5mm of thread engagement due to the thickness of the copper crush washer, so the 65386 will still utilise the approx 11 mm depth of thread as the original valve).

Dorman 65386
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/Dorman65386-001.jpg

Paul, is this valve the culprit that is spraying the crankcase full of misty oil and it then getting sucked through the PCV system and pooling the intakes and causing my burning oil smell? I believe there is a bulletin about a shroud or cap to be installed over this to prevent the oil spray? I'm about to give up on why my car fills with burnt oil smell for the first 500-1000 miles after a TOTALLY clean (no spills) oil change.

[Crazy Paul]

Paul, is this valve the culprit that is spraying the crankcase full of misty oil and it then getting sucked through the PCV system and pooling the intakes and causing my burning oil smell? I believe there is a bulletin about a shroud or cap to be installed over this to prevent the oil spray? I'm about to give up on why my car fills with burnt oil smell for the first 500-1000 miles after a TOTALLY clean (no spills) oil change.

Yes, correct.
There is a bulletin to fit a shroud or deflector over the AFM oilpan relief valve.
#10-06-01-008B: Engine Oil Consumption on Aluminum Block Engines with AFM
#10-06-01-008B: Engine Oil Consumption on Aluminum Block Engines with Active Fuel Management (AFM) (Install AFM Oil Deflector and Clean Carbon from Cylinder) - (Mar 7, 2011)

http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=168468

[Crazy Paul]

The larger capacity ZL1 oil pan that Greg @ Pace had been selling.....wouldn't that come without the GM AFM releif plug? I've got one of those in the garage -- that my be my ticket - eh?
Go in the garage and have a look.
Dorman plug is $3.55 , there'd need to be a more compelling reason than no AFM relief valve to change out the entire oilpan.

[08G8V8]

The larger capacity ZL1 oil pan that Greg @ Pace had been selling.....wouldn't that come without the GM AFM releif plug? I've got one of those in the garage -- that my be my ticket - eh?

I know he had a larger transmission pan that folks have been swapping out, but not the oil pan. You sure that isn't what you have? Doesn't the engine need pulled to drop the oil pan?

[STL_G8GT]

Doesn't the engine need pulled to drop the oil pan?

Nope :) shift steering forward, lift engine 2-3", remove bolts, and she sliiiiiides right out. :)

[hflores3]

Go in the garage and have a look.
Dorman plug is $3.55 , there'd need to be a more compelling reason than no AFM relief valve to change out the entire oilpan.

Nevermind. I'm a dork! ....Greg was selling a "tranny" pan not an oil pan. :-)

[hflores3]

Go in the garage and have a look.
Dorman plug is $3.55 , there'd need to be a more compelling reason than no AFM relief valve to change out the entire oilpan.

My Dorman oil pan plug is on the way.

[hflores3]

Nope :) shift steering forward, lift engine 2-3", remove bolts, and she sliiiiiides right out. :)

Hey! We must have dated the same girl in college! :-)

[hflores3]

Yes, correct.
There is a bulletin to fit a shroud or deflector over the AFM oilpan relief valve.
#10-06-01-008B: Engine Oil Consumption on Aluminum Block Engines with AFM
#10-06-01-008B: Engine Oil Consumption on Aluminum Block Engines with Active Fuel Management (AFM) (Install AFM Oil Deflector and Clean Carbon from Cylinder) - (Mar 7, 2011)

http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=168468

You don't happen to have an exploded view of the pan removal handy -- might you? Being an amatuer...it helps for me to look at it a bit before diving in.

[Crazy Paul]

http://parts.nalleygmc.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=377634&ukey_make=1030&ukey_model=14640&modelYear=2009&ukey_category=19398
http://www.grrrr8.net/crazypaul/OilpanReplaceOnVehicle.pdf

[gman08]

Do you need to remove the dod oil relief valve if you swap to non dod? Or will it not hurt anything?

[Crazy Paul]

Do you need to remove the dod oil relief valve if you swap to non dod? Or will it not hurt anything?
You can leave it alone.
Why some people choose to remove it is because it's a $10 part that's hidden away where you can't see it. If it fux up and starts relieving oil pressure when it shouldn't, then you can chase the low oil pressure problem for days and not think to look in the oilpan. With no AFM solenoids to protect, it serves no useful purpose after AFM delete....it can only cause grief IMO.

(Maybe think of it like having a low pressure shower at home...you can change faucets and filters and dig up the yard, you're never going to think of looking inside the wall for a cracked pipe).

[Bill Brollier]

Paul, you are freakin' fantastic!

Once again, thanks for sharing.

[Dunbar]

Thanks for this post (and the literally thousands of others) it's full of great info and is timeless in its usefulness for G8 owners.