VMS security relearn issue

[Naptown99]

Hey all!
Earlier this week I got my new ECM from Vector. Yay! So I called up the one and only Rob Moser and headed to his house for some help installing it. His TWO G8's are gorgeous! But I digress. We get the old ECM out and the new one in, no prob. there. Of course, the car didn't start, which was no big deal, so we started the relearn. Problem is, neither of us knew what to look for and the instructions weren't very clear to me (or I'm just an idiot)... we waited the ten minutes and cycled the key 3 times but it ended up being a no go. It was late so I headed home and tried it yesterday, thinking it was the fact that we left the doors open and messed with the lights. This time I waited about 12 or 13 minutes a cycle- still, nothing. I had the windows down, radio off, doors closed, and just sat there in my car with a buddy the whole time. All i got on both of my attempts at the relearn was "engine immobilized, consult owner's manual for details" and "engine oil life low". What am I doing wrong? and what should I be looking for to let me know when to cycle the key?
Sorry for the insanely long essay, and thanks in advance for your help. I'll call Vector on Monday but I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction before then!

[R.Penguin]

I am not an expert on this, but I have done the VMS tune 3 different ways on 2 different G8's. If you are referring to the case relearn, the engine must be running to do that. If the car didn't start at all,??? Did you put the stock ECM back in and try to start it? If the car won't start, you have another problem somewhere I think.

Ah, I see you refer to a "security relearn". (HUH?) I now defer to the experts.

[EcoBrick Bob]

Matt,

Just did a search on "other board". RirenterG8 had the same problem back in Jan 09. His turned out to be a bad ECM. VMS ended up 'overnighting' him a new one.

Maybe we aren't as "dumb" as we look after all!!!!

Will call if I find out anything of consequence....

Rob

[R.Penguin]

Matt,

Just did a search on "other board". RirenterG8 had the same problem back in Jan 09. His turned out to be a bad ECM. VMS ended up 'overnighting' him a new one.

Maybe we aren't as "dumb" as we look after all!!!!

Will call if I find out anything of consequence....

Rob
I bet that's it. :woohoo:

[EcoBrick Bob]

Mr. "P" would you let me borrow your "gun" to use over on other board against SpectreG8GT....

-Temporary thread steal--

Back to VMS ECM PROBLEM!

[WickedMom]

I looked up in SI how to program the immobilizer. I dont quite understand what you are doing tho..., Maybe this will help. I can look up anything else if i am misunderstanding you.

2009 Pontiac G8 | G8 Service Manual | Document ID: 1825684
Immobilizer System Component Programming
10-Minute Immobilizer Relearn

This 10-minute relearn procedure will relearn the prerelease password and the challenge/response data between the theft deterrent module (TDM) and the engine control module (ECM).

1. Connect a scan tool to the vehicle in the pass-thru arrangement.
2. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
3. Ensure that all power consuming devices are turned OFF on the vehicle.
4. On the Techline Terminal, select Service Programming System and follow the Techline Terminal on-screen instructions, using the Pass-Thru method. Ensure the correct programming selection is chosen based on component being replaced or programmed. For this procedure, go to the V.T.D. Vehicle Theft Deterrent Learn menu and choose the Vehicle Theft Deterrent Learn, ECM, or PK3 Replaced selection.
5. At this point the scan tool must remain connected for the duration of the 10-minute relearn procedure.

Important:
• The scan tool will initially display 12 Minutes. The first 2 minutes allow the scan tool to initialize the appropriate control module. The remaining 10 minutes is the relearn timer.
• On some vehicles the security indicator may be illuminated for the duration of the 10-minute relearn procedure.
6. Observe the scan tool, after approximately 10 minutes the scan tool will display "Programming Successful, Turn OFF Ignition". The vehicle is now ready to relearn the key information and/or the passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK.
7. Turn OFF the ignition and wait 2 minutes.
8. With a master vehicle key, turn the ignition to the RUN position for 15 seconds, then start the vehicle. The TDM and ECM have now relearned the pre-release password and the challenge/response data.
9. With a scan tool, clear any DTCs.

© 2009 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.

[Naptown99]

I looked up in SI how to program the immobilizer. I dont quite understand what you are doing tho..., Maybe this will help. I can look up anything else if i am misunderstanding you.

2009 Pontiac G8 | G8 Service Manual | Document ID: 1825684
Immobilizer System Component Programming
10-Minute Immobilizer Relearn

This 10-minute relearn procedure will relearn the prerelease password and the challenge/response data between the theft deterrent module (TDM) and the engine control module (ECM).

1. Connect a scan tool to the vehicle in the pass-thru arrangement.
2. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
3. Ensure that all power consuming devices are turned OFF on the vehicle.
4. On the Techline Terminal, select Service Programming System and follow the Techline Terminal on-screen instructions, using the Pass-Thru method. Ensure the correct programming selection is chosen based on component being replaced or programmed. For this procedure, go to the V.T.D. Vehicle Theft Deterrent Learn menu and choose the Vehicle Theft Deterrent Learn, ECM, or PK3 Replaced selection.
5. At this point the scan tool must remain connected for the duration of the 10-minute relearn procedure.

Important:
• The scan tool will initially display 12 Minutes. The first 2 minutes allow the scan tool to initialize the appropriate control module. The remaining 10 minutes is the relearn timer.
• On some vehicles the security indicator may be illuminated for the duration of the 10-minute relearn procedure.
6. Observe the scan tool, after approximately 10 minutes the scan tool will display "Programming Successful, Turn OFF Ignition". The vehicle is now ready to relearn the key information and/or the passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK.
7. Turn OFF the ignition and wait 2 minutes.
8. With a master vehicle key, turn the ignition to the RUN position for 15 seconds, then start the vehicle. The TDM and ECM have now relearned the pre-release password and the challenge/response data.
9. With a scan tool, clear any DTCs.

© 2009 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.

This sounds similar to what I am trying to do- except with the use of a Tech tool. From what I gather it is not necessary to use a scan tool to do the relearn but it is obviously faster than the method I was trying. Guess its how the big boys at the dealer do things. Thanks for the info

From reading those posts on G8 board I think i have a bad ECM as well- no security indicator even turns on for me. Just wish I knew exactly what the "security indicator" looked like. :blink:

[Naptown99]

Matt,

Just did a search on "other board". RirenterG8 had the same problem back in Jan 09. His turned out to be a bad ECM. VMS ended up 'overnighting' him a new one.

Maybe we aren't as "dumb" as we look after all!!!!

Will call if I find out anything of consequence....

Rob

by the way, thank you Rob :thumbsup:

[vert]

Is this the procedure you followed,
Important: This procedure will only relearn the vehicle keys. This procedure will not learn the immobilizer prerelease password or the challenge/response data. Do not use this procedure as a substitute for a 10-minute relearn when replacing or reprogramming a TDM or ECM. Doing so will result in a failure to learn the prerelease password and/or the challenge/response data.
This 30-minute learn procedure should be used when all vehicle keys are desired to be replaced or reprogrammed. This procedure will erase all previously learned vehicle keys from the TDM. Once the 30-minute learn procedure has been completed, any remaining vehicle keys may be programmed using the Adding Keys procedure to ensure their continued functionality.
1.
With an unlearned master vehicle key, turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
2.
With the key ON wait approximately 12 minutes.
3.
Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds.
4.
Repeat steps 1-3 two more times for a total of 3 cycles or 30 minutes.
Important: The TDM learns the key transponder information upon the ignition switch transition from OFF to ON. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle.
5.
With a master vehicle key, start the vehicle. The vehicle has now learned the key transponder information.
6.
If additional keys are required to be learned, refer to Adding Keys.
7.
With a scan tool, clear any DTCs.

[Naptown99]

Is this the procedure you followed,
Important: This procedure will only relearn the vehicle keys. This procedure will not learn the immobilizer prerelease password or the challenge/response data. Do not use this procedure as a substitute for a 10-minute relearn when replacing or reprogramming a TDM or ECM. Doing so will result in a failure to learn the prerelease password and/or the challenge/response data.
This 30-minute learn procedure should be used when all vehicle keys are desired to be replaced or reprogrammed. This procedure will erase all previously learned vehicle keys from the TDM. Once the 30-minute learn procedure has been completed, any remaining vehicle keys may be programmed using the Adding Keys procedure to ensure their continued functionality.
1.
With an unlearned master vehicle key, turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
2.
With the key ON wait approximately 12 minutes.
3.
Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds.
4.
Repeat steps 1-3 two more times for a total of 3 cycles or 30 minutes.
Important: The TDM learns the key transponder information upon the ignition switch transition from OFF to ON. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle.
5.
With a master vehicle key, start the vehicle. The vehicle has now learned the key transponder information.
6.
If additional keys are required to be learned, refer to Adding Keys.
7.
With a scan tool, clear any DTCs.

Its pretty much the same. Despite what this says, this procedure is "supposed" to work when you replace the ECM. Many others have done it successfully, I haven't. :huh:

[RIRENTERG8]

Matt,

Just did a search on "other board". RirenterG8 had the same problem back in Jan 09. His turned out to be a bad ECM. VMS ended up 'overnighting' him a new one.

Maybe we aren't as "dumb" as we look after all!!!!

Will call if I find out anything of consequence....

Rob

Yes, it was a bad ECU. Kirk overnighted me a new one and i did not even have to do a security relearn on it. The car started as soon as I insalled it. VMS rocks!

[Kirk@VectorMotorsports]

Hey all!
Earlier this week I got my new ECM from Vector. Yay! So I called up the one and only Rob Moser and headed to his house for some help installing it. His TWO G8's are gorgeous! But I digress. We get the old ECM out and the new one in, no prob. there. Of course, the car didn't start, which was no big deal, so we started the relearn. Problem is, neither of us knew what to look for and the instructions weren't very clear to me (or I'm just an idiot)... we waited the ten minutes and cycled the key 3 times but it ended up being a no go. It was late so I headed home and tried it yesterday, thinking it was the fact that we left the doors open and messed with the lights. This time I waited about 12 or 13 minutes a cycle- still, nothing. I had the windows down, radio off, doors closed, and just sat there in my car with a buddy the whole time. All i got on both of my attempts at the relearn was "engine immobilized, consult owner's manual for details" and "engine oil life low". What am I doing wrong? and what should I be looking for to let me know when to cycle the key?
Sorry for the insanely long essay, and thanks in advance for your help. I'll call Vector on Monday but I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction before then!


Very sorry for this problem. This is only the second time this has happened.
If you do not see the security indicator (a picture of a lock) with the key on, you have a bad ECM.
They are new ECM's but sometimes they are bad from the factory. I will UPS overnight a new on on Monday.

[Naptown99]

Very sorry for this problem. This is only the second time this has happened.
If you do not see the security indicator (a picture of a lock) with the key on, you have a bad ECM.
They are new ECM's but sometimes they are bad from the factory. I will UPS overnight a new on on Monday.

Thanks Kirk, check your PM's.