Sticking Clutch !!

[fe9_fe9]

I have a holden commodore SS with manual transmission. I just modded the car with Kooks LTs and Borla catback :woohoo:

When I drive the car hard for sometime, the clutch will start sticking to the floor. The pedal will go half way there and stay there. No slipping and nothing is going bad. It's just the pedal. After sometime of normal driving it will go back to normal.

Can anybody explain, technically, what that is? What will fix it?

Thanks,

[GRRRR8]

This happens with weaker pressure plates. Under hi rpms it will suck the pedal to the floor. Permanent fix- better clutch. I have added a spring to the pedal as a return and had good results also.

[Crazy Paul]

You didn't specify which model SS you had. I know some of the models before VE could have clutch problems attributed to :


Clutch fluid contaminated with black floaty gunk.....remedy: there wasn't an easy one, monitor gunk in master cyl reservoir -- change and replace with best quality clutch fluid regularly.

New long tube headers too close to clutch line/ clutch fluid heat issue ...... remedy: fit longer Stainless steel braided clutch line routed away from heat zone.

Master to slave clutch line spongy with age ....remedy: as above.

Weeping or leaking slave cylinder .... remedy : remove gearbox to replace slave.

[GRRRR8]

Good point Paul. Boiling the fluid would do the same thing. As would all the other points you posted.

[fe9_fe9]

You didn't specify which model SS you had. I know some of the models before VE could have clutch problems attributed to :


Clutch fluid contaminated with black floaty gunk.....remedy: there wasn't an easy one, monitor gunk in master cyl reservoir -- change and replace with best quality clutch fluid regularly.

New long tube headers too close to clutch line/ clutch fluid heat issue ...... remedy: fit longer Stainless steel braided clutch line routed away from heat zone.

Master to slave clutch line spongy with age ....remedy: as above.

Weeping or leaking slave cylinder .... remedy : remove gearbox to replace slave.


Auh, it's a commodore VE SS, sorry. We have it as Chevy Lumina SS.

I think the problem is with LTs and the clutch lines because I started seeing this right after installing the LTs. I'll investigate and let you guys know.

Thanks

[Crazy Paul]

Auh, it's a commodore VE SS, sorry. We have it as Chevy Lumina SS.
I think the problem is with LTs and the clutch lines because I started seeing this right after installing the LTs. I'll investigate and let you guys know.
Thanks

That would be the first place I'd look too.

See Aussies have manual trans but not Kooks brand headers.
USA have auto trans (no clutch line) with Kooks.

You've got a combo nobody has put too much thought into......until now.

[GeorgeInNePa]

That would be the first place I'd look too.

See Aussies have manual trans but not Kooks brand headers.
USA have auto trans (no clutch line) with Kooks.

You've got a combo nobody has put too much thought into......until now.


You might start seeing this since the GXPs just hit the streets.

['02 ws6]

That's right. Fbodies experienced the same exact things....you paying attention 99-LS1-SS?
BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104

[BSmith]

I know the GTOs are having a similar problem, at least assuming you have the hydraulic throw out bearing and not an external slave. I believe the Vette guys are too.

I think the problem was the fluid was getting too hot and they were needing to flush the fluid on a regular basis. For them, it is happening at the throw out bearing though.

Maybe in your case the Kooks are accelerating the heating process, as stated above.

[R.Penguin]

You might start seeing this since the GXPs just hit the streets.
Ah! This whole thing sounds kinda Kooky to me.:p

[G8GXP4now]

Ah! This whole thing sounds kinda Kooky to me.:p

Either you have small kids that watch Wow Wow Wubzy, or you just randomly quoted one of the lines they use daily on that cartoon.
Yes, I am aware that Kooks also ships headers.

[freeflytex]

Well first of all, hi all I'm new. Had a recommendation to come visit from the other site and here I am, and low and behold there is already a thread about my concern.

My clutch pedal stuck to the floor last night. I had just run an SS from a roll but we didn't get but 1/8 mi before traffic shut us down. When we got to a clear light, I reved to about 2000, at the green let her rip, clutch just sat there on the floor. I had to let off the gas for it to release. Then I smelled burning clutch for about 10 minutes afterwards.

Now I notice it takes a longer release of the clutch pedal for it to engage first the next morning. I read the recommendations below, but again, my car has less than 2500 miles on it!? wth? I'm taking it into the dealership this evening. Should I mention the below?

Clutch fluid contaminated with black floaty gunk.....remedy: there wasn't an easy one, monitor gunk in master cyl reservoir -- change and replace with best quality clutch fluid regularly.

New long tube headers too close to clutch line/ clutch fluid heat issue ...... remedy: fit longer Stainless steel braided clutch line routed away from heat zone.

Master to slave clutch line spongy with age ....remedy: as above.

Weeping or leaking slave cylinder .... remedy : remove gearbox to replace slave

[R.Penguin]

Either you have small kids that watch Wow Wow Wubzy, or you just randomly quoted one of the lines they use daily on that cartoon.
Yes, I am aware that Kooks also ships headers.
Sorry fft, 0 for 2. Truth is, I am old enuf to fondly remember the TV show "77 Sunset Strip!"

[-Ray-]

Well first of all, hi all I'm new. Had a recommendation to come visit from the other site and here I am, and low and behold there is already a thread about my concern.

My clutch pedal stuck to the floor last night. I had just run an SS from a roll but we didn't get but 1/8 mi before traffic shut us down. When we got to a clear light, I reved to about 2000, at the green let her rip, clutch just sat there on the floor. I had to let off the gas for it to release. Then I smelled burning clutch for about 10 minutes afterwards.

Now I notice it takes a longer release of the clutch pedal for it to engage first the next morning. I read the recommendations below, but again, my car has less than 2500 miles on it!? wth? I'm taking it into the dealership this evening. Should I mention the below?

Clutch fluid contaminated with black floaty gunk.....remedy: there wasn't an easy one, monitor gunk in master cyl reservoir -- change and replace with best quality clutch fluid regularly.

New long tube headers too close to clutch line/ clutch fluid heat issue ...... remedy: fit longer Stainless steel braided clutch line routed away from heat zone.

Master to slave clutch line spongy with age ....remedy: as above.

Weeping or leaking slave cylinder .... remedy : remove gearbox to replace slave

Were going to assume you are in the States with a GXP since you didn't state. You will need to post if you have modded the car any.
Try and give some more info so hese folks can help you out.

[SRG963]

Were going to assume you are in the States with a GXP since you didn't state. You will need to post if you have modded the car any.
Try and give some more info so hese folks can help you out.

Stock car, and from Texas of course :)

[freeflytex]

Were going to assume you are in the States with a GXP since you didn't state. You will need to post if you have modded the car any.
Try and give some more info so hese folks can help you out.

Sure thing I guess I need to detail my profiile some more as well, I've just been so busy orchistrating logistics with moving the GXP and my other ride to and from dealerships, as well as moving out, applying for a home loan, and serious audits at work!! Yeah my plate is full! I am in Texas, NW Houston to be exact, and I have a bone stock polar white 6M GXP w/ roof at ~ 2700 miles.

I dropped off and picked up the car from the dealership yesterday. They told me there was air in the clutch line. They bled it out and everything seems great again! I hope that really was the issue and not something else. I assume that the air was in there b/c the line was not entirely bled out at assembly? That is the question I asked the service consultant at my dealership and his response was "quite likely". Any other suggestions? Thanks for all words of wisdom and I look forward to meeting some of you guys in the future!

[GRRRR8]

I would imagine they flushed the fluid and doing that took care of it. I am in Sugar Land. Welcome to the site.

[freeflytex]

I would imagine they flushed the fluid and doing that took care of it. I am in Sugar Land. Welcome to the site.

Thank you sir, I sure hope so. Looking forward to a Houston meet. I'm gonna go search the regional forum to see what I can find. :headbang:

[Crazy Paul]

It doesn't take much to smoke the clutch. I've been driving a V8 manual for the last 10 years every day and on a rare occasion (especially after wearing different shoes) I'll not compensate properly for the different feel. For me that's all it takes to get it way wrong.

So I can well imagine if somebody maybe hasn't driven a stick shift for a long time + is still getting used to a new GXP.....there could well be a few clutch dramas aside from purely mechanical problems like this one.

[freeflytex]

:lame:Ok, so it happened again, today, after I decided to go see what trouble I could get into on my lunch hour. I found a new M5 and before he even hinted he was going to go he he just drops it and flys by from behind me when I thought he was going to line up. So the second opportunity, I just didn't give it enough, fast enough, and hung on his quarter panel until a car came up in my lane. We came to a light and I asked him if he'd go one more and he said that he couldn't b/c he had to take his girl to work. I was like yeah right you're scared shitless that a pontiac hung on you like that and don't wanna take a chance of gettin embarrassed! HA!

So needless to say, I return to the business park where my companys' warehouse is, there is a perfect 1/4 mile, all concrete, 5 car widths wide. I gun it, like almost all people do that have any kind of car w/ balls in the park and this guy near the end in a bonneville just stops right in the middle of the road. I slow a bit and am deciding which side I'm going to pass him on, making it completely obvious I go to the left side, he inches to the left to block me, seeing me coming. So I skeerrt the brakes and go back to the right. He continues to follow me down to the end which is a cul de sac and I pull up and roll down my window. He says, driving a bit fast weren't you? I was like, yeah officer I was. He says people walk along this road from one warehouse to the next. I said, there was no one out there, and I don't see any freakin crosswalks, nor speedlimit signs. He says, you were driving too fast! I said, yeah, I was, and proceeded to floor it and slowly let out the clutch.

Right then it stuck again, about midway out. I let off the gas, my laughing stopped, and I could smell the familiar smell of burning clutch and saw a 20 ft. patch of rubber on the concrete. I continued to the exit of the park, stopped and started in first, and the car shuddered until first was fully engaged. It did it again when I stopped and started again. After I drove it around for about 5 minutes granny style, it stopped shuddering out of first.

So, to get to the point, this is the second time the clutch has done this, after being bled out at the dealership. Is it possible that air is somehow leaching into the line?

Is it possible that my clutch is just weak/defective, or am I just being too hard on it? I RARELY drive like I did today as far as trying to burnout, that is only the second time, the first being the first time it screwed up.

[Mr. Bueno]

Are you a free flyer? I am too.

What was the status of your clutch?

I personally think that GM is using their Corvette drive train, and may have not considered the fact that these G8s are 1,000lbs heavier, thus causiing issues.

Mr. B

[RWD-V8]

Anyone come up with a good fix for this problem. I had it happen my M6 GXP last night after coming off the highway and launching at a traffic light. Other then replacing the clutch and bleeding the fluid is there a real solution here.
Does anyone know if it's caused by the disk assembly itself or the slave cylinder/actuator?
My clutch is definitely fried now. I wonder if I can get my dealer to put in a better one? Z06?

[Crazy Paul]

Pedal sticking to the floor problem.

The GMH line is that the cause is the clutch self adjuster sticking down due to the adjuster tube serrations cocking slightly and sticking. Hence the pedal stays down.
The pedal sticking is a symptom of the faulty self adjuster.
The sticking pedal doesn't cause the faulty self adjuster.

Holden didn't have adequate supply of new clutches with non-faulty adjusters, so their "fix" in Aus was to fit a new clutch (of similar quality to the original) and a bandaid solution which involved a new re-designed clutch pedal assembly with revised pivot point and a new heavier clutch pedal return spring.

The proper solution would have been to fit a new clutch with a self adjuster mechanism which works correctly.

[RWD-V8]

Thanks for the info.
What do you think I can do with this here in the US. My dealer sent me over to the Chevy Vette guys. They're going to call me back later today. I just checked my fluid and it's black with < 6K miles. I'll be changing that tonight.
Will a Z06 clutch solve this problem?

[Crazy Paul]

I haven't heard of too many problem with the LS7 clutch.
It's a direct swap as long as you fit the LS7 flywheel also.
Personally I think they should have had the LS7 clutch kit installed from day dot.

Genuine GM C6 Z06 LS7 Clutch Kit--
24248985 – LS7 Clutch
12571611 – LS7 Flywheel

[RWD-V8]

Cool. You are the best.
My dealer just called and said they would put in a new clutch, flywheel, slave, lines and reservoir as necessary under warranty. I'll do the LS7 clutch myself if it occurs again after the warranty period.
Thanks again...
Almost time for you to hit the sack over there?

[Crazy Paul]

Sounds like a good dealership to work with. Unless the problem with the faulty self adjuster has been designed out very recently then you'll most likely just get the same problem again.
The black gunk in the hydraulics is unrelated and just part of ownership with these things.
LS7 clutchkit for less than $500 is a bargain. If you're buying it yourself out of warranty you can also buy them now from some Vendors with aluminium LS7 flywheel for about $100 more.

Yeah I just snuck in 4Hrs of Zzzzzzz here, back on deck now.

[RWD-V8]

Has Holden released a new clutch pedal/actuator assembly to help solve this problem? I was reading on the Holden forum and there was discussion on it. If there is one, would you have the part number. My service manager is putting a list of parts together to replace my clutch and actuation system.
He may even be willing to take out the return line flow restricter and pedal return delay spring. Any advice here?
I've accepted the fact that I will need to keep changing the fluid. No biggie, I can do it with a Foster's on the bench while my shrimp are marinating and the bahbie is warming up. Thanks for your help!

[Crazy Paul]

Has Holden released a new clutch pedal/actuator assembly to help solve this problem? I was reading on the Holden forum and there was discussion on it. If there is one, would you have the part number. My service manager is putting a list of parts together to replace my clutch and actuation system.
He may even be willing to take out the return line flow restricter and pedal return delay spring. Any advice here?
I've accepted the fact that I will need to keep changing the fluid. No biggie, I can do it with a Foster's on the bench while my shrimp are marinating and the bahbie is warming up. Thanks for your help!

The pedal re-design does not fix the problem.
All it does is mask the problem to a small extent.
The problem with the self-adjuster inside the clutch itself remains.
There were no better clutches available to Holden to solve the adjuster issue.
Somebody came up with a temporary solution to allow the use of the sub-standard clutch to remain in service until something better came along.

I don't have the info on the parts used for the pedal and return spring mod, if I did find them I still have no way of knowing 100% if they will work in a left hand drive car.

[Crazy Paul]

I went into a Holden Dealership today and told them I had a pedal sticking to the floor and asked if there was a Bulletin or Techline I could read about the problem. I also asked if there was a parts list available for the recommended repair mods.

The guy came back and said there is nothing available at the dealership. Each car gets treated individually, with all the info going to Holden and they reply back with the "solution" for that car. He said that Holden are still working to come up with something in the bigger picture.

I told him that didn't seem correct as the problem had been around for a long time and that other had reported the same "solution" being used for a whole bunch of different V8's. ie the return spring and different pivot point pedal.

I didn't necessarily believe the guy , but thats what I was told.

[Crazy Paul]

Here read this thread from Page 19 onwards
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=86112&page=19

The kiddies in there are slinging a bunch of fecal matter but it does appear that they now agree on something.

The Holden fix for late model VE's includes the LS7 clutch and flywheel.
clutch assembly 24248985
flywheel 12571611

The other parts (pedal assy, spring, hydraulics)which form the remainder of the "fix" are not listed in that thread.

TL1790-0908 may or may not be a GM tech letter about the problem

[RWD-V8]

Great! Thanks for the link and information. I'll be talking to my service manger about the option.