Wonky steering wheel buttons

[J Wikoff]

Yesterday I was pulling up to the gas pump, and as I was turning the wheel, the radio switched presets. I didn't think I'd scrolled the wheel, but assumed I did it on accident. When I got back in and started the car, none of the buttons/wheels worked. After a few ignition cycles, most of them work. The left wheel will not scroll the DIC or anything on the radio and it will only click/select things in the DIC. It will not click/select anything with the radio.

Does this have anything to do with the clockspring?

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I wouldn't think it is the clock spring since you can talk with the DIC.
The steering wheel buttons plug directly into the instrument cluster harness, the cluster harness then passes the info on the GM LAN line to the radio. So the commands are getting interrupted between the radio and IC IMO.
-Greg

[J Wikoff]

But the left scroll won't scroll the DIC either.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Oh missed that part.
Could be the switch then not the spring. I'm pretty sure the switches just work on different resistances. I would start there first since that is the least expensive option. :)


Circuit/System Testing
 1. Ignition OFF and all vehicle systems OFF, disconnect the harness connector at the steering wheel switch assembly. It may take up to 2 minutes for all vehicle systems to power down.
 2. Test for less than 5 Ω between the low reference circuit terminal 5 and ground.
⇒ If greater than the specified range, test the low reference circuit for an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the IPC.
 3. Ignition ON, test for 4.8–5.2 volts between the signal circuit terminal 6 and ground.
⇒ If less than the specified range, test the signal circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the IPC.
⇒ If greater than the specified range, test the signal circuit for a short to voltage. If the circuit tests normal, replace the IPC.
 4. Ignition OFF and all vehicle systems OFF. It may take up to 2 minutes for all vehicle systems to power down.
 5. Test for less than 10 Ω between the steering wheel switch ground terminal 7 and ground.
⇒ If greater than the specified range, test the steering wheel switch ground for an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the steering wheel switch.
 6. Ignition ON, test for 4.8–5.2 volts between the signal circuit terminals listed below and ground.
◦Right Steering Wheel Scroll 2 terminal 1.
◦Right Steering Wheel Scroll 1 terminal 2.
◦Left Steering Wheel Scroll 1 terminal 3.
◦Left Steering Wheel Scroll 2 terminal 4.
⇒ If less than the specified range, test the appropriate signal circuit for a short to ground or an open/high resistance. If the circuit tests normal, replace the IPC.
⇒ If greater than the specified range, test the appropriate signal circuit for a short to voltage. If the circuit tests normal, replace the IPC.
 7. If all circuits test normal, replace the steering wheel control switch assembly.
Component Testing
 1. Ignition OFF, disconnect the harness connector at the steering wheel switch assembly.
 2. Test for 0.5-O.L. Ω between the scroll wheel terminals listed below, while rotating each steering wheel scroll wheel several times through its full range of motion.
◦Right steering wheel scroll wheel terminal 1 and terminal 2.
◦Left steering wheel scroll wheel terminal 3 and terminal 4.
⇒ If not within the specified range or is erratic, replace the steering wheel switch.
 3. Test the resistance between the signal terminal 6 and the low reference terminal 5 while depressing the appropriate steering wheel controls switch button listed below.
⇒ If not the specified value, replace the steering wheel switch.

[J Wikoff]

The weirder thing is that a new steering wheel arrived yesterday. Doesn't the wheel have to come off to replace the switch(s)?

[Greg@PacePerformance]

yes it does

[J Wikoff]

On the way home from work today, it suddenly started working right as I fiddled with it. Then 10 minutes later the station preset changed on its own as I turned and the left wheel stopped working again in any way. Some more fiddling and it went back to clicking but not scrolling.

[J Wikoff]

Greg, can you supply the buttons? 92217697 is the part number. I tried to order from GMPD, their price was $88.54. But they cancelled the order because "Part Number 92217697: Cancelled (1295 Canceled, We are not able to supply this item. GM only offers this as a replacement radio for vehicles that were manufactured with this radio in cases of fire, crash, or theft with proper documentation. ) "

That doesn't make any sense. I can buy a steering wheel, the plastic cover pieces, maybe even the air bag. Why would I need a special process just to order a button module? The non-leather buttons don't appear to have this restriction.

I'd rather not crash, burn, or have my car stolen just to get these buttons fixed.

There's even black aftermarket ones that I can get at any time. But I want the silver that I already have. I wonder if I can swap internals?

[J Wikoff]

I got a used set from a member. It may be a while before I have the time to swap them in. My fingers are crossed till then.

[J Wikoff]

I swapped the buttons today. I got no love. What other possibilities are there?

[J Wikoff]

Bump!

[Bob N]

I think I'm having a similar problem. The left thumb wheel stopped any scrolling of the radio station, and it can be depressed to go into engineering mode, but can't scroll thru the selections. I found the switch assembly on a couple of web sites, (NEW) the cheapest is Rockauto.com $114.95.
My problem now is figuring out how to remove the air bag assembly? Any ideas?

[J Wikoff]

There's a How-to by Crazy Paul on here.

[Bob N]

Thanks, I found it!
Do you know if the steering wheel has to be removed to change out the switch controls?

[JimmyJazz]

Yes, it does.

[Bob N]

Thanks for the info.

[J Wikoff]

Does anyone know much about the mechanism that allows the buttons to work as you spin the wheel? I know there's a "clock spring". Is it for the airbag only? Is there a separate one for the buttons? I really don't know what to look for next.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

The scroll wheels have separate wires going through the clock spring. If you swapped the controls with known good controls and the same issue I would suspect the clock spring.
https://paceperformance.com/files/grrrr8.net/wheelcontrols.jpg

[Crazy Paul]

2009 G8 Gt Clockspring Part Number 92234063
I can save you about $100 on a new one if you can wait the 2 weeks for it to arrive by Airmail.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/Steering%20Wheel%20and%20Shifter/100_1778_zpsawvjlmwy.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/PerthPurplePenguin/media/car%20parts/Steering%20Wheel%20and%20Shifter/100_1778_zpsawvjlmwy.jpg.html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/Steering%20Wheel%20and%20Shifter/SteeringWheelClockspringAlignment_zpsaf92f5e8.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/PerthPurplePenguin/media/car%20parts/Steering%20Wheel%20and%20Shifter/SteeringWheelClockspringAlignment_zpsaf92f5e8.jpg. html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/Steering%20Wheel%20and%20Shifter/P1010048_zps193f5533.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/PerthPurplePenguin/media/car%20parts/Steering%20Wheel%20and%20Shifter/P1010048_zps193f5533.jpg.html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/Steering%20Wheel%20and%20Shifter/P1010049_zps5f86d60d.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/PerthPurplePenguin/media/car%20parts/Steering%20Wheel%20and%20Shifter/P1010049_zps5f86d60d.jpg.html)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/Steering%20Wheel%20and%20Shifter/P1010051_zps8b34eb0c.jpg (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/PerthPurplePenguin/media/car%20parts/Steering%20Wheel%20and%20Shifter/P1010051_zps8b34eb0c.jpg.html)

[Crazy Paul]

Does anyone know much about the mechanism that allows the buttons to work as you spin the wheel? I know there's a "clock spring". Is it for the airbag only? Is there a separate one for the buttons? I really don't know what to look for next.
The clock spring is like a rotary hub thru which the activation wires (blue and yellow connectors) and the ground (black) pass for the steering wheel airbag. There's also a large white connector which will have wires for the steering wheel switches and other services.
It's my understanding that the clockspring also feed steering angle info to the steering angle sensor circuit which then feeds to ABS.
It's very important to not disturb the relationship between the inner and outer portions of the clockspring. They are very delicate.
Once you install a new clockspring it may be necessary to have it calibrated to the car with tech2 or similar, so that when the front wheels are pointing straight ahead the steering angle sensor is reporting the same thing. If this relationship is out then you'll be found out because of the 4 wheel speed sensors.
4 equivalent wheel speeds means 0 position on steering angle, equals clockspring in 0 position, equals hopefully steering wheel in 0 position.

[J Wikoff]

PM me a price. Don't suppose you have instructions on how to remove/install one of these?

Is it easier to install a new/used column and put my key cylinder into it?

[Crazy Paul]

PM me a price.
I can do that.

Don't suppose you have instructions on how to remove/install one of these?
Is it easier to install a new/used column and put my key cylinder into it?
Did you read the bit about re-calibrating the steering angle after replacing the clockspring?
It's not a DIY job. If you're ever going to pay a GM dealership to do anything on your car, then let it be this task.
Certainly paying GM to install a new clockspring is way less intrusive than changing out the entire column.....which in itself would probably need the steering angle sensor to be re-calibrated.

[J Wikoff]

Could I not install it myself, then go get the Tech 2 voodoo done?

[Crazy Paul]

Could I not install it myself, then go get the Tech 2 voodoo done?
Sure, but then whose fault is it if the new genuine GM part doesn't work?
You blame them, they blame you.
I'll try and find the fitting instructions and get them to you.

[-Ray-]

This isn't something to attempt by yourself. The slightest mistake will require a new clock spring.

[J Wikoff]

I've got a message into "my guy" to see if they will install a part I bring in.

[Crazy Paul]

I've got a message into "my guy" to see if they will install a part I bring in.
I collected the new clock spring today and it's sitting here in the genuine un-opened GM box.
I'm not going to open the box....let your guy be the first.

[kevinm0131]

Am I crazy or could it not be a broken/damaged wire in the column?

[Greg@PacePerformance]

There really isn't much wiring for the wheel controls in the column. They come out of the clock spring then go into the instrument cluster. From there the inputs get turned into CAN bus messages to the radio if needed, since the messages from the wheel are not making it to the cluster there isn't much wire to investigate. So that might be recommended before spending the cash on the spring/coil and paying for install.

[J Wikoff]

It isn't always the same buttons that don't work. Right now, only the left scroll works to change radio presets.

[kevinm0131]

It isn't always the same buttons that don't work. Right now, only the left scroll works to change radio presets.

I only suggested wiring because I had a Pontiac 6000 ste a long time ago that the controls on the multi function stalk went wonky/intermittent and it was a broken wire in the column caused by the movement at the tilt hinge. (I know, probably not the right term) Fished the new section of harness through myself and it was a bitch.

[J Wikoff]

Sure. I was just saying that in case it helped anyone else decide for sure what problem it is, and tell me to go fix something else.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I haven't watched this yet but it might help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UgL22uM8Tk

[J Wikoff]

My car is at the dealer right now getting the clockspring installed. They called because they were thrown for a loop by the wiring for the HSV gauges. I responded by being thrown for a loop as to why they had to open the dash and find my wiring spliced into the headlight switch.

Isn't the install of the clockspring entirely limited to the steering column? There certainly wasn't a wire harness connected to the thing longer than a few inches, if any at all. I didn't look at it that close I guess, but, I would have noticed wiring long enough to exceed the boundaries of the column in that little box.

[Bob N]

Wikoff, here's a complete procedure for replacing both switch control buttons.
http://www.carmodder.com/view_doc.php?doc_id=64&model_id=43#7