H Balancer help

[monster mash]

Friends, I'm writing this after getting off night shifts so, bear with my rambling if you please.
I need to replace the Harmonic balancer on my 09 g8gt and so, I ordered one off of ebay. It doesn't look the same as the stock one however.
The numbers on the box are 12635649.
That is a GM number and an ACDelco number.
What do I have here. Will it work because it doesn't look the same.
Also, if I needed the flex plate holder tool, what would that number be? Or, where can I find one?
Thank you for your time.

[Crazy Paul]

What features don't look the same?
Use a camera if you have one and show us.

12635649 is down as 2009.5 L76 G8 and G8 LS3
12635652 is down for 2008 and 2009 (excluding 2009.5) L76 G8

I don't know the physical differences between the 2 part numbers.

[Crazy Paul]

.

[monster mash]

Top one is the one I bought. 12635649
Bottom is the one on the car.
This car has under 50,000 miles on it and I just paid $650 for a computer. And they wanted more than $500 to do the balancer. Grrrr not made out of moneys.
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt333/meistermash/20140905_174817_zps91ksyn2k.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt333/meistermash/20140905_175146_zps2qng68gk.jpg

[LDM]

My guess is that you got the 2009.5 balancer but have an early 2009 car. My balancer looks like the new one you just bought, but I have a 2009.5. Here's the best picture I could find at the moment of mine:

http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz352/lenmartin23/G8/20100826_LM_ST8000_01743-Version2.jpg

Whether or not the new balancer will work on an older engine I have no idea.

[LDM]

Also, the flywheel holding tool is Kent Moore J-42386-A and they're usually around $100. I also found this: http://carshop.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/137756/CSP2344 which should do the same for less money.

[jcmGT]

LDM gave you the holder, here's other tools to make the task easier.

How desperate is the repair? ATI has blems on EBAY that are superior to the oem part.


Balancer puller: otc 6667 or equivalent (can be borrowed from parts store)

install: Hawk LS Series Harmonic Balancer Installation Tool (http://www.coloradospeed.com/hawk-ls...3-p-10976.html) This can be made easy enough if you have lowes / fastenal local.

flywheel holder: kent-moore J-42386-A or CAR SHOP CSP2344 LS1 2 3 LSX Engine 4.8 5.3 5.7 6.0 6.2 FLYWHEEL LOCKING TOOL $39.95 BUY ONLINE or Flywheel flexplate holders - Page 14 - LS1TECH (http://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-classifieds/1547001-flywheel-flexplate-holders-14.html)

[monster mash]

Wow thanks for the good info. My car must be a early 09. I don't have to be in a hurry fixing it. It's my work car after being totaled by hail. I'll go to my local napa and see if they have the rental tools. Not expecting any luck on those though. Some one there may know who might have them.
May have to call a dealer ship and see if they know if the two balancers will inter change. :huh:
Have a rinky dink gear puller I may try first just to see how quick it breaks.
O and 27 hrs I've been awake. :facepalm:

[LDM]

My car must be a early 09.

A quick way to tell, if you look at my picture you'll see the gold throttle body blade and the upper radiator hose coming out of the driver's side of the engine. The 08s and early 09s have a silver throttle body blade and the radiator hose comes out of the passenger side of the water pump pulley.

[-Ray-]

The A/C and the power steering are the same as far as I know. It should fit.

[monster mash]

And now, more balancer breakage.:facepalm2:
Puller rented from Auto zone.
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt333/meistermash/20140906_182727_zpsyocmykoh.jpg
Damage done to potmetal/aluminum balancer.:confused2:
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt333/meistermash/20140906_182649_zpsaljwiyas.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt333/meistermash/20140906_182631_zpsamliv7wc.jpg
Anybody have any ideas?

[-Ray-]

Get a large 3 jaw puller, and heat the balancer near the crank end prior to pulling it off. You need to try and get the jaws on the back side of the outside Dia.

[monster mash]

Thanks. I think that's the thing to try.
I have a torch but I am hesitant to put too much heat on it. Idealy, I bet the thing to do would be to have the puller hooked up and putting tention on the balancer then just enough heat to get it to come loose. The two metals being dissimilar. And maybe not fry the seal that way. And I need new hose for my oxy/ace rig.
I do have an idea about making one should the large outside puller idea not work.
I wonder if the newer style balancer might be an upgrade to what ever the stock one is made of. I wanted to get the old one off to see if the two will inter change. ie get the calipers out and measure everything. I bought that other balancer off of ebay and need to know if they will interchange so I can send it back if they won't.

[-Ray-]

I just used a propane torch to heat mine up to get it on. The crank seal is only $20. Put a little red perma tex on the outside and tap it on with a large socket.

[landsarmstrong]

I just used a propane torch to heat mine up to get it on. The crank seal is only $20. Put a little red perma tex on the outside and tap it on with a large socket.

I put the crank in the oven for 10 min. @ 350° then tap the center with a hammer. Never had a problem with any of the ones I've done.

[monster mash]

Okey dokey I found out how I did the breakage. :facepalm2:
The tool I rented, somebody had previously not used one of those skinny push rods. So the end of the screw was buggered. Me I'm thinking, hell just put the original crank bolt back in and leave it a couple of turns loose. Well if ya do it that way, the puller screw will turn the bolt back in for you. Then if you back the damn puller screw out, the bolt also screws back out. So when I removed it looking for why the balancer wasn't moving, then assured myself that the crank bolt was still 2 turns loose, then put the three foot 1/2" breaker bar on it, that's what happened. I should have fixed the puller bolt like I had to after further deforming the puller screw, so the rods would fit in it. I even had a buddy that has done a few H balancers looking over my shoulder as I did the deed. Also, the Hbalancer had to go back. I called a parts guy and the 2 different balancers won't interchange according to him. So, where would be a good online source for the Harmonic Ballancer?
I also bought a flex plate tool off that guy selling them on ls1 tech and he shipped it out the same day. And for making a installation tool, Fastenal gets $58 for M16 2.0 grade 8 ready rod. So I'm looking for a good source for one of those instalation tools or a place to buy the ready rod and nuts. I'm thinking enco or msc.
Thank you jcmGT for the link to the flex plate holder tool on ls1tech. Guy sent it the same day I sent money. Might order one of the installation tools you linked to also If I can't find the metric rod and nuts cheap enough.

[-Ray-]

Here is what I found out on balancers.

'08:
Crankshaft..12588612
Balancer.....12635652

'09
Crankshaft...12588612 (Casting number on skirt 81096)
Crankshaft...12588613 (Casting number on skirt 81224)
Balancer......12635652
Balancer......12635649

'09 6.2
Crankshaft...12597569
Balancer......12635649

Greg or someone might be ably to give a vin break. I'm going to guess the vin break happens at the '09.5

[-Ray-]

Here is what I found out on balancers.

'08:
Crankshaft..12588612
Balancer.....12635652

'09
Crankshaft...12588612 (Casting number on skirt 81096)
Crankshaft...12588613 (Casting number on skirt 81224)
Balancer......12635652
Balancer......12635649

'09 6.2
Crankshaft...12597569
Balancer......12635649

Greg or someone might be ably to give a vin break. I'm going to guess the vin break happens at the '09.5

[monster mash]

Thanks Ray.
I am sure that it is 12635652 now.
The other one I had ordered was for an 09 and it was 12635649.
I sent it back already.
I should have went with my gut and fixed that puller so that the rods would fit and used it that way. I had to fix it anyway after really buggering up the puller screw.
I chucked it in the lathe and faced it off then champhered it until the rods fit again.
So both my 09 g8gts are 09 and not 9.5s.
I also was looking in the owners manual and see where it appears that the ecm should have been a warrantee item. So I guess I need to call somebody about that and find out for sure. Because the dealer sure must not have gave a crap.:disgust:

[monster mash]

I win. I modified the cheep puller that I already had so that it would pull on the inside of the out side. Then used a map torch to heat the hb after putting a bit of tention on it. The original bolt I turned the head down to crank size and center drilled the head for the puller shaft.
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt333/meistermash/20140914_184739_zpsc9thq9zj.jpg
Then I received the flex plate holder priority mail from gray86hatch@comcast.net for $35 shipped. It is a well constructed piece and he sent the two bolts with it.
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt333/meistermash/20140917_143714_zpsnxcf3qfq.jpg
So, now that I'm ready to put a new h balancer on, is there a way that I have to index the new one? On the older vehicles, they are keyed and only go one way.
Thank you for your guys' time and patience in this matter.:thumbsup:
O and does anyone have the front seal part number? Or where can I find that?

[Crazy Paul]

Not keyed because the (modern) engine is internally balanced.
Front Crank Seal = 12585673

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Here is what I found out on balancers.

'08:
Crankshaft..12588612
Balancer.....12635652

'09
Crankshaft...12588612 (Casting number on skirt 81096)
Crankshaft...12588613 (Casting number on skirt 81224)
Balancer......12635652
Balancer......12635649

'09 6.2
Crankshaft...12597569
Balancer......12635649

Greg or someone might be ably to give a vin break. I'm going to guess the vin break happens at the '09.5

Ray is correct. 2009.5 was the vin break so 9L3xxxxx (or any GXP)
The new balancer will work on the older crankshafts just fine. They are slightly heavier, but less expensive.
Also the procharger balancer adapter will not work with the newer balancer.

Oh and we sell brand new take off 12635649 balancers for 98.95 (pulled from brand new LS3's)

[aussiek2000]

Easier to just hold the crank by jamming screwdriver or pry bar between flexplate and converter through the inspection plug. Not easy to remove starter on a car with headers.

[jcmGT]

As far as indexing the balancer, ATI's pin kit will do that. You put the pin perpindicular to the crank centerline and use the keyway in the balancer. All the other pin kit's I've seen drill the hole in the crank and balancer parallel to the center line. ATI fixtures can be had used on ls1tech etc.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj210/k1jcm/ZL1%20FI/IMG_0047_zps85d6f614.jpg


If you go this path, make sure you align the new pin with the key in the pump gear.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj210/k1jcm/ZL1%20FI/IMG_0044_zps85693b0c.jpg

[monster mash]

Easier to just hold the crank by jamming screwdriver or pry bar between flexplate and converter through the inspection plug. Not easy to remove starter on a car with headers.
Actually a total PIA to get that starter out. But it did come out. After I removed the heat shield to get that last little bit of room.
They sure didn't want anyone to mess with those cats. Bolt heads are welded. I was contemplating pulling that one side then the starter would have been a cake walk. Might still to get the starter back in. I have a cut off tool and a smith wrench. Who did they think they were stopping?
Wish I would have known that the newer style balancer would work because I sent that one back and that Greg sells those as take offs.
Thanks for the number Crazy Paul and the info on the internal balancing.
O and I called GM customer service about that ecm, it should have still been covered and the dearship is going to refund my money supposedly says GM. Bet they get right on that.

[monster mash]

Update. :cool2:
I finally got the whole thing running.
Super chips even works as I put in the usual 87 octane tune.
The new pully/balancer isn't a whole lot less wobbly than the old one.
But it's back together.
None of the traffic police, cut me off, slow ijuts that I work with are now safe. Vaarooom shitdicks. :thumbsup:
Still holding my breath for that check from the dealership for the $500 I'm out.
I paid them the exact day I picked up the car for the ecm work.
I called GM cs back about it and they put me through to the service manager at the dealer.
He explained how I have to wait for GM to cut them a check before they can get me my money back that they owe me for them not knowing about that ecm warrantee.
:jerkoff:

[neuralfraud]

Good thread - I was actually searching for info regarding installing the balancer and not surprisingly, found pretty much all I needed in the first thread that came up ;)

Basically, what I've gathered from this is:

Low temperature bake the dampener to allow easier insertion onto crank snout.
jam a solid object in the flexplate teeth via the inspection hole for torquing
The crank snout / dampener is not keyed because the crank is balanced - thus any zero balanced flexplate, dampener/pulley will suffice.

The fact that you noticed a less than significant decrease in wobble is not surprising. The belt pulley is connected to the core essentially with a piece of rubber and my guess is that the wobbling is the result of the dampening effect. I looked at mine and noticed it appeared to be wobbling, again this is only the outer portion of it and it has not thrown a belt (since the last one, which I determined to be caused by a faulty tensioner).

I read in an ebook (How to build the Chevy LS Engine) an interesting step in balancer install - the author used a light coat of anti-seize on the dampener before sliding it onto the snout (in addition to having heated it in a 200deg oven). Additionally, moly lube was used on the ARP crank bolt.

I've heard a lot of horror stories about bolts loosening and the dampeners basically wobbling off of the snout until they fell off, causing all sorts of damage.

I am about a week from starting a project to replace my cam and lifters - I have purchased an ARP crank bolt. Assuming the torque instructions are followed accurately, is there any real risk of the thing falling off or otherwise loosening?

Thoughts on the anti-seize treatment, bolt lube?

[monster mash]

The ARP bolt comes with moly and or anti seize in a little packet. I just coated the crank, end bolt and all associated parts with it. When you get ready to do it, if you want to burrow that flex plate tool to hold that, I'd prolly loan that out. That fellow on ls1 that sells them though is fast and they are cheap enough. I just put a map torch on the balancer and heated around the hole it started easily. Then I just tapped it on far enough to get the bolt started and I just used that since it went so smoothly. Put the seal in too it went easy. Had a large socket and hammer. I didn't have any help to hold it but a bar in the flex plate will be easier than taking the starter off and then I took the exhaust loose on that side to get it back in.

[neuralfraud]

Ah, awesome. I looked up that tool - an expensive piece (if you're broke) - so my story is that my car which has always sounded like its got marbles in the motor started making a particularly louder racket within the last week or so, sounds to me one of the lifters has started eating into a lobe and so having to act fast I found a local dude with a LS3 cam and springs and ordered a complete DOD delete kit. I'd be stoked about doing this, but realistically i needed that money to go into the suspension and tires!

I've had to start learning a LOT in a short period of time, but so far so good. Seems I am in good company with both the Florida G8 Car Club and of course, GRRRR8.net.

[GingerBeard Man]

Easier to just hold the crank by jamming screwdriver or pry bar between flexplate and converter through the inspection plug. Not easy to remove starter on a car with headers.

This is how we did mine last weekend, worked out just fine on my UDP install.

[GingerBeard Man]

Easier to just hold the crank by jamming screwdriver or pry bar between flexplate and converter through the inspection plug. Not easy to remove starter on a car with headers.

This is how we did mine last weekend, worked out just fine on my UDP install.