LS3 swap in G8 GT

[hulkss]

My modded 6.0 motor died today with over 60,000 miles on it. Sounds like a broken lifter, pretty loud noise from inside. I decided to not repair it as I have not time to mess with it. The local dealer is swapping in a new Chevrolet performance LS3 crate motor P/N 19301326 (see attachment). He said with them installing the motor I'll get a 3 year 100,000 mile warranty (see edit note). This motor will rock with headers and the VCM OTR intake. New motor, misc parts and gaskets, ECM flash, labor, tax for $10,000.

21893

The mechanic wants to buy the old motor. What is that worth?

Edit: Stock motor replacement warranty is 36/100,000, performance motor is 24/50,000

[tchr49]

HotRod G8 did the 376/480 GM crate motor a while back. Don't think he's active anymore, but I got a ride in the car.
Stock converter and stock exhaust in place, it was potent. I think he had to change the upper rad hose.
Figure out what you're happy with as a final figure and give him the motor. You don't want it anyhow.

[thebeast]

I swapped one to an ls3 as well. Pretty straight forward.
And yeah, it's fast

[G8 GT V8]

Hopefully, that's $10K installed right? I would think that you could get $1500 or so out of the L76...

On edit: I reread your post and saw that it did include labor.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

My modded 6.0 motor died today with over 60,000 miles on it. Sounds like a broken lifter, pretty loud noise from inside. I decided to not repair it as I have not time to mess with it. The local dealer is swapping in a new Chevrolet performance LS3 crate motor P/N 19301326 (see attachment). He said with them installing the motor I'll get a 3 year 100,000 mile warranty. This motor will rock with headers and the VCM OTR intake. New motor, misc parts and gaskets, ECM flash, labor, tax for $10,000.

21893

The mechanic wants to buy the old motor. What is that worth?

The dealer lied to you. You will only get a 2yr/ 50K mile warranty.

GM doesn't have an ECM flash so unless your dealer has EFI live or HP tuners it won't run as well as it should and may not run at all ;)
should have contacted me. We sell that engine for $6298.88 plus $100.00 shipping to your door. ;)

Good luck

[hulkss]

The dealer lied to you. You will only get a 2yr/ 50K mile warranty.

The dealer Service Advisor did not lie to me. The first quote I got from them was for a stock replacement motor. That would have a 3 year/100,000 mile warranty. You are correct that the performance parts motor P/N 19301326 that I ended up selecting has a 2 year/50,000 mile warranty.


GM doesn't have an ECM flash so unless your dealer has EFI live or HP tuners it won't run as well as it should and may not run at all ;)

The dealer said they could tune it with files they have access to. If the tune is off, I have full licenses of both HP Tuners and EFI Live and two AFX wide band O2 sensors to go in the exhaust.


should have contacted me. We sell that engine for $6298.88 plus $100.00 shipping to your door. ;)

The quote from the dealer was engine @ $6400, so the same. The remaining $3600 covered all labor, all the other parts and materials needed, and sales tax. Labor was based on 21 hours.

[drumsbh]

My modded 6.0 motor died today with over 60,000 miles on it. Sounds like a broken lifter, pretty loud noise from inside. I decided to not repair it as I have not time to mess with it. The local dealer is swapping in a new Chevrolet performance LS3 crate motor P/N 19301326 (see attachment). He said with them installing the motor I'll get a 3 year 100,000 mile warranty. This motor will rock with headers and the VCM OTR intake. New motor, misc parts and gaskets, ECM flash, labor, tax for $10,000.

21893

The mechanic wants to buy the old motor. What is that worth?

Hulkss, sorry to hear about the car. Good luck with everything.

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[hulkss]

If I would have thought more about it, I would have swapped for the LS3 instead of the AFM/DOD delete and a cam in the L76. If the L76 was in good shape with low miles, the swap would have been easier, and less expensive, after selling the used motor. This is also less expensive than having bought a GXP in the first place, especially when you factor in sales and gas guzzler taxes.

[astynx]

OP, How long was install time? Also my experience with 'my dealer' is that they will only warranty parts installed and obtained through them. Even if parts are GM OEM.
edit: My dealer said they would only warranty the install itself only if part(s) were obtained from them. Don't actually know if GM dealer would honor GM warranty included with new motor if not obtained through that dealer.

[hulkss]

OP, How long was install time?

It will take 3 days.


Also my experience with 'my dealer' is that they will only warranty parts installed and obtained through them.

The Chevy Dealer is providing the motor and installing it.

[hulkss]

Cool engine cover coming from Australia.

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[SpeedRacerX]

Haven't seen you on here in awhile. Good luck with everything.

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[hulkss]

Haven't seen you on here in awhile. Good luck with everything.

Thanks, I haven't opened the hood on the G8 for 50,000 miles, just oil changes.

I going to put on the updated air conditioning bracket while I'm at it. The LS3 engine comes equipped to fit the new Chevrolet SS. Not sure what parts will need to be swapped from the L76. I guess that the dealer's problem now. I think I'll order a new EFI Live tune from Patrick G.

I'm driving a Cruze Turbo Diesel a lot now. Same torque to weight ratio as my old Impala SS. It really fools you that it has a big motor until you ask for more than it can give. That rarely happens in normal driving. I'm getting 45 mpg (50 mile average) on the highway and I cruise at 75 - 80 mph when I can.

[texn884]

Well sounds like the dealer is cool with mods and tunes. I hope it all goes GRRRR8

[hulkss]

Well sounds like the dealer is cool with mods and tunes. I hope it all goes GRRRR8

I think they like $10,000 service orders.:D

I really don't know the dealer too well. All I did was drive in the service bay making the "clunking sound of death". They offered to to start the dollar meter and open it up or go the swap route. They first offered a "VIN match swap" to an L76 (they did not know the car). I said no way, how 'bout an LS3? They said we'll look into it and call you. Keep in mind this is at 9 pm and the service department works two shifts. An hour later the deal was done.

For a few bucks more I could have gotten the "hot cam" version of the LS3 but I drive below 2000 rpm (80 mph) almost all the time and I have the stock torque converter. I expect to have about 480 hp with intake, long tube headers, and tune. That's enough for a daily driver. :thumbsup:

[astynx]

Thanks for the reply. I may go this route some day. Good info.

[JimmyJazz]

Here's an old article about LS3 cams from 2009. The GM hot cam should be alright with the stock converter and you can keep you warranty. http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/lsx_engine/0911gmhtp_chevy_ls3_engine_camshaft_comparison/

[hulkss]

Here's an old article about LS3 cams from 2009. The GM hot cam should be alright with the stock converter and you can keep you warranty. http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/lsx_engine/0911gmhtp_chevy_ls3_engine_camshaft_comparison/

That's a great cam article, thanks for the link.

I had a cam similar to the GM hot cam in my L76. The idle speed was up just a little over the stock cam but it was enough that I had to put the car in neutral to stop it on ice in the winter. I'm below 2000 rpm almost all the time (80 mph).

Also, to benefit from the Hot Cam it would mean that I will have to be driving the car at WOT and wanting more. That ain't gonna happen to me with an LS3, VCM Intake, long tube headers, and a good tune. I get about 10,000 miles out of a set of tires so I'm not driving too hard anymore. I'll be happy with the base 430 HP LS3, tight converter, low idle speed, and a little better fuel economy.

[jpG8GT]

Wait. So your paying $3500 in labor to put it in? That's insane! It's a 8 hour job. I've done several g8 motors. One day in and out. I think book time is 10 hours. Easy motors to do. I hope you don't end up paying that much in labor.


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[hulkss]

So your paying $3500 in labor to put it in?

The book time to remove and replace the engine, including transfer of all parts not supplied with the new engine = 21 hours. This is consistent with book times posted by GM technicians over at LS1tech.com. Labor is over $100/hr here which is typical for any major metro area.

The remaining $$ is about $700 in state sales tax and parts like gaskets, oil, transmission fluid, anti-freeze, fasteners, sealants, etc.

Letting a dealer do the install ensures no hassle warranty coverage. I just don't have the time or interest to do the job myself. Been there, done that. Like you said, its easy, so nothing new to learn here.

I'll have more fun putting on the fancy Holden engine cover I posted (a 30 second job) and then checking out the ECM/TCM tune with EFIlive and a pair of wide band O2 sensors. WOT through 4th gear while data-logging is a quick trip to 145 mph.:eek:

[johnbell2]

best of luck hulkss, if/when my L76 decides to die the LS3 goes in...

[hulkss]

Here's a couple of dyno runs on the 2014 Chevy SS LS3 with only a CAI (rotofab) and a tune. I expect with a Patrick G tune, VCM OTR CAI, and DT Long Tube Headers I"ll be putting down about 400 rwhp. :cheers:

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[jpG8GT]

I don't blame you for paying the extra money to have the warranty and piece of mind to have the dealer do the work. Too bad you can't do it yourself. Engine is still warranted even if you do it. It's gonna be a good running car when done!


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[hulkss]

I really don't have the space or equipment to do a swap properly: engine hoist; engine build stand; etc. Adding my costs to rent stuff and buy tools I would only save about $2k and take up many part days of free time. It's springtime now and I have a Harley that needs to be ridden.

[Periodic]

Just curious....
What is the price of a new L76 crate engine, compared to an LS3 at +/- $6400?

EDIT:
L76 from Pace
http://paceperformance.com/i-6227692-19256262-new-gm-2008-2011-6-0l-366-cid-8-cylinder-engine.html

[hulkss]

The cost for an L76 is almost the same. No way would I buy one of those AFM motors again.

[hulkss]

Interesting comment from a couple years ago:


I have done quite a few of these swaps (LS3 430HP Corvette crate motor) The Vette motor was awesome! Smooth idle. It made 409 RWHP with LTs and a VaraRam and tune. Super stealth!!!

Sounds good enough for me:thumbsup:

[johnbell2]

Just about every LS3 with bolt-ons I've seen put on a dyno puts down similar numbers to an LS2 with the same bolt-ons and a mild cam... it's a heck of an engine.

[Periodic]

Off topic, but my car is in at the dealer right now. Low engine oil pressure, they aren't sure what problem is. There have been a few instances where dealer has replaced engine under warranty. Maybe I'll have opportunity to upgrade to an LS3 and just pay the cost difference....I assume they are more readily available, and since it is a direct swap + a tune, maybe I can simply pay them the difference to get rid of the L76....

[hulkss]

Here's a couple great articles about the 430 HP LS3 from the guys who designed it:

LS3 Engine Engineers Part 1 (http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_1105_ls3_engine_engineers/viewall.html)

LS3 Engine Engineers Part 2 (http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_1106_ls3_engine_engineers/viewall.html)

[hulkss]

Just ordered my ECM/TCM EFILive tuning update from Patrick Guerra.

I sent this note to the dealer (if you guys know better please let me know):

After researching some more, I don’t think you will need to change any parts on the new engine. I hope this information is correct and helps.

The included water pump is slightly different on the LS3 so these radiator hoses should fit (2009 G8 GXP numbers)
Upper - 92215927
Lower - 92261483

The harmonic balancers are the same so no change 12635649 (Chevy SS & G8)

The new oil pan should work, it’s from the new Chevy SS which is the same car platform.

Please install the upgraded air conditioner bracket p/n 92252927 and belt 92244381.

Please reuse the header mounting studs from the old engine.

[jscruick]

Will you use the original transmission or upgrade any parts

[hulkss]

Will you use the original transmission or upgrade any parts

The original transmission is fine. The transmission tune from Patrick G. really makes for a great driving car. I like the stock tight torque converter that feels like a manual clutch and the LS3 will idle down to where the stock TC won't be pulling at idle. I have a crate with a brand new 3.43 Camaro posi-traction center unit in it. Not sure if I will install it or not (any recommendations?).

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Just ordered my ECM/TCM EFILive tuning update from Patrick Guerra.

I sent this note to the dealer (if you guys know better please let me know):

After researching some more, I don’t think you will need to change any parts on the new engine. I hope this information is correct and helps.

The included water pump is slightly different on the LS3 so these radiator hoses should fit (2009 G8 GXP numbers)
Upper - 92215927
Lower - 92261483

The harmonic balancers are the same so no change 12635649 (Chevy SS & G8)

The new oil pan should work, it’s from the new Chevy SS which is the same car platform.

Please install the upgraded air conditioner bracket p/n 92252927 and belt 92244381.

Please reuse the header mounting studs from the old engine.

Looks correct. The crate LS3 is based on a mix of Camaro and Corvette LS3's. It has the Corvette balancer and water pump. The water pump I the 2009.5 pump so as long as you change your upper and lower hoses that is fine. Also remember that you made this change because the thermostat is also different if you go to an aftermarket one in the future.

The oil pan is the 2009.5 G8/Camaro/Chevy SS unit. Also remember this change because the oil dipstick goes into the block now instead of the oil pan so if you ever need a new one you will have to order the correct one.

Everything else is pretty much the same.

[hulkss]

Thanks Greg, the Camaro Diff I mentioned a couple posts back I bought from you a few years ago. Thanks again for all your assistance to G8 owners.

[Executor999]

LS3 is definitely the way to go. Love my car a whole lot more since the swap.

[Periodic]

Can the dealer flash the G8 GT E38 ecm with the GXP stock tune? Can't believe, aside from the crate motor, that the hoses are the only thing you need to swap. impressive.

[Executor999]

Just ordered my ECM/TCM EFILive tuning update from Patrick Guerra.

I sent this note to the dealer (if you guys know better please let me know):

After researching some more, I don’t think you will need to change any parts on the new engine. I hope this information is correct and helps.

The included water pump is slightly different on the LS3 so these radiator hoses should fit (2009 G8 GXP numbers)
Upper - 92215927
Lower - 92261483

The harmonic balancers are the same so no change 12635649 (Chevy SS & G8)

The new oil pan should work, it’s from the new Chevy SS which is the same car platform.

Please install the upgraded air conditioner bracket p/n 92252927 and belt 92244381.

Please reuse the header mounting studs from the old engine.

What about the starter and alternator?

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Can the dealer flash the G8 GT E38 ecm with the GXP stock tune? Can't believe, aside from the crate motor, that the hoses are the only thing you need to swap. impressive.

They can not flash a 2009 ECU with a 2009.5 file. The dealer can also not flash a 2009 GT with a 2009.5 ecu added. (well they can but it might brick it)

[Greg@PacePerformance]

What about the starter and alternator?

All of those parts will swap over w/o a problem.

[hulkss]

Can't believe, aside from the crate motor, that the hoses are the only thing you need.

Yes, the only extra new parts needed (besides gaskets, etc) are the upper and lower radiator hoses I posted. I decided to upgrade the A/C bracket and belt as mentioned earlier.
The engine accessories needed can be swapped from the old motor. ECM & TCM tuning files are needed too.

Edit: The throttle body had to be swapped from the L76 to the LS3. The E38 operating system for the L76 was designed to work with the older "silver blade" throttle body, while the crate motor needs a newer E38 OS designed to work with the newer "brass blade" throttle body. Both throttle bodies are the same size so no issues there.

[hulkss]

Here's what the new motor install will look like (I'll have black fenders).

http://www.grrrr8.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=21916&d=1398141528

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[Bob the Noob]

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not all that knowledgeable with the various LS engine types... but for the cost, aren't there other options? What about a stroker or rebuilding the stock block with forged parts/big cam?

[AlaskaGT]

Lol yes there are more than you could count but maybe he just wants around 400 horsepower and a warranty from gm

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[Bob the Noob]

Oh yeah, I can totally see how a warranty would make sense...

My main thing in a couple years is going to be making sure I find an engine that my 2300 can be used with. ;)

[hulkss]

.......maybe he just wants around 400 horsepower and a warranty from gm

From the references I've included in this thread, with only an intake, headers, and tune you can expect 400 rwhp from the 430 hp LS3 crate motor. This will be a highly reliable, very well mannered, and fun daily driver.

[hulkss]

Seems the tech working on the car is having a hard time with the dipstick tube in the rearward through the block location by the starter. It is such an issue with the Tri-Y long tube headers that the tech wants to swap back to the L76 Oil pan with the forward dipstick location through the side of the oil pan. I said to forget that and ordered up a set of Solo Performance High Flow Cat Converters to go with the stock exhaust manifolds. The car will now be "legal" and who knows how much longer the 4 year old mild steel ceramic coated headers were going to last in Minnesota. He should receive the cats and be able to finish up April 30th. I would have bought the cats years ago if they were available at the time I modded the car.

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I ordered a fresh set of front O2 sensors to go with the new cats. I do not use the rear sensors, they are ignored in the tune configuration. I have the new ECM & TCM files from Patrick G. ready to load into the car's computers with EFILive.

[hulkss]

Another thing I was wondering about. The tech swapped the engines from the top. The FSM says to drop it out the bottom. He had to remove the intake manifolds to get the engines in and out from the engine bay. The transmission stayed in the car. Any comments?

[hulkss]

I just noticed the new engine has these high capacity six-bolt, cross-bolted main caps in the block. :thumbsup:

22012

[-Ray-]

Another thing I was wondering about. The tech swapped the engines from the top. The FSM says to drop it out the bottom. He had to remove the intake manifolds to get the engines in and out from the engine bay. The transmission stayed in the car. Any comments?

There is a LS engine plate that allows you to lift the engine from the valley cover. That's how I would do it.

[-Ray-]

Another thing I was wondering about. The tech swapped the engines from the top. The FSM says to drop it out the bottom. He had to remove the intake manifolds to get the engines in and out from the engine bay. The transmission stayed in the car. Any comments?

There is a LS engine plate that allows you to lift the engine from the valley cover. That's how I would do it.

[TooManyHobbies]

Seems the tech working on the car is having a hard time with the dipstick tube in the rearward through the block location by the starter. It is such an issue with the Tri-Y long tube headers that the tech wants to swap back to the L76 Oil pan with the forward dipstick location through the side of the oil pan. I said to forget that and ordered up a set of Solo Performance High Flow Cat Converters to go with the stock exhaust manifolds. The car will now be "legal" and who knows how much longer the 4 year old mild steel ceramic coated headers were going to last in Minnesota. He should receive the cats and be able to finish up April 30th. I would have bought the cats years ago if they were available at the time I modded the car.

I ordered a fresh set of front O2 sensors to go with the new cats. I do not use the rear sensors, they are ignored in the tune configuration. I have the new ECM & TCM files from Patrick G. ready to load into the car's computers with EFILive.

I remember having lots of fun with Kevins's GXP when we installed the TriYs on it. Spent hours on that damn dipstick I think, but we eventually got it.

[hulkss]

There is a LS engine plate that allows you to lift the engine from the valley cover. That's how I would do it.

Like this I guess.

22014

[-Ray-]

Yep.

[hulkss]

I just dropped off the O2 sensors and the Solo Cats should arrive tomorrow to finish the job. I'll load the tune config files when I stop in to inspect it and pay the bill. Should turn and burn when I hit the key:D

[Frostopsy]

Can you let me know what kind of dipstick you put in there? I have an LS3 in mine with the dipstick location near the starter. It's an MFer to get something to work. The flex dipstick I tried didn't fit, I ordered a new stocker from the dealership (using the VIN from the GXP it was sourced from) and that didn't work either.


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[jimmyp3353]

Good luck my man. But it seems like you took the absolute most expensive route possible.

[hulkss]

it seems like you took the absolute most expensive route possible.
An engine rebuild is also very expensive unless you have the time and tools to do it yourself. With the LS3 I get a great daily driver with a 2 year warranty and high reliability. I want a motor that will last the life of the car this time.

My modded motor only lasted 50,000 miles after I installed the cam (65,000 miles total). Not sure what is typical but would not trust a repair of it to last the full life of the car.

[hulkss]

Can you let me know what kind of dipstick you put in there? I have an LS3 in mine with the dipstick location near the starter. It's an MFer to get something to work. The flex dipstick I tried didn't fit, I ordered a new stocker from the dealership (using the VIN from the GXP it was sourced from) and that didn't work either.

I tossed the DT Tri-Y headers and installed the stock exhaust manifolds with Solo high flow cats. The stock OEM dipstick is not an issue now. Dyno results show this combo works nearly as wells headers (data from Solo web site):

Numbers are WHP/WTQ
Baseline Run
HP 294.52
TQ 312.80
With Mach Catback, Solo High-Flow Cats
HP 314.60
TQ 328.05
With Mach Catback, Solo High-Flow Cats, Kooks LongTube Headers
HP317.19
TQ 333.38

[Frostopsy]

I tossed the DT Tri-Y headers and installed the stock exhaust manifolds with Solo high flow cats. The stock OEM dipstick is not an issue now. Dyno results show this combo works nearly as wells headers (data from Solo web site):

Numbers are WHP/WTQ
Baseline Run
HP 294.52
TQ 312.80
With Mach Catback, Solo High-Flow Cats
HP 314.60
TQ 328.05
With Mach Catback, Solo High-Flow Cats, Kooks LongTube Headers
HP317.19
TQ 333.38

You wouldn't happen to have the parts # would you?


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[hulkss]

You wouldn't happen to have the parts # would you?

Solo Cats: Solo G8 catalytic converters (http://solo-performance.com/pe-pontiac-g8-catalytic-converters)

Edit: DipstickTube 12625031; Dipstick 12634547

[Frostopsy]

Solo Cats: Solo G8 catalytic converters (http://solo-performance.com/pe-pontiac-g8-catalytic-converters)

Ha, I'm sorry about that. I ment the dipstick.

My Ls3 GT has been without one for a while now.




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[Kaos]

...The local dealer is swapping in a new Chevrolet performance LS3 crate motor...

Hey hulkss...can you PM me the dealer you are going to? I am still under extended warranty and not exactly satisfied with what I am getting from my dealer. Thanks!

[hulkss]

I've got a real sleeper now. This LS3 is totally smooth. Very mellow low idle. It is the most mechanically quiet Chevy engine I have ever heard. The iron exhaust manifolds with Solo high flow cats are quieter under the hood than headers. The exhaust smell at idle from the performance cam and no cats is gone and the exhaust note is a little quieter too. I'm running Solo Mach Balanced mid-pipes modified to fit to the stock G8 axle-back mufflers. Very stealthy.

Gotta finish break-in miles and do an oil change before some data logging at WOT.

[hulkss]

The throttle body had to be swapped from the L76 to the LS3. The E38 operating system for the L76 was designed to work with the older "silver blade" throttle body, while the crate motor needs a newer E38 OS designed to work with the newer "brass blade" throttle body. Both throttle bodies are the same size so no issues there.

[Frostopsy]

Thank you!

Great build btw, very clean and tasteful.


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[hulkss]

Great build btw, very clean and tasteful.

I had a lot of fun building and driving my LS2.5 (L76 DOD delete with cam). I wish it had lasted longer than 50K after cam install. The engine had all the classic sounds of a lifter failure (I had LS7 lifters in it). If it was an intake lifter failure, it was probably caused by having the stock heavy solid steel intake valves in the heads and stiffer beehive valve springs. The L76 does not have the hollow lightweight valves like the LS3, which I've now read are critical for good valve train dynamics. The service tech has my old engine and the service advisor said he would send me an email when they know what went wrong in the old motor.

I'm enjoying the mild mannered yet powerful LS3. I'll post some pics when the engine cover shows up from Australia.

[hulkss]

Had to take it back to the dealer, the starter is acting up. Squeals loudly when disengaging after the motor fires. Looks like it should be covered by the 5 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.

Edit: Got it back, no problem found, could not duplicate noise. No problem with starter since initial few instances.

[sixt9stang]

Thanks for all the info.

[johnbell2]

Yes, the hollow stems for intake are a must if you're going to cam the L76... nice work hulkss, sounds like an excellent setup.