Flare & Tuning

[oesman]

Hey Guys,

So I've been browsing the board trying to get an understanding of our flare issues going from 2-3, 3-4 and even 4-5. Most of the descriptions are fairly vague as far as the tuning in relation to flare. Currently I have a tune from g-force of pearland (near Houston). The flare with this tune is absolutely crazy in sport/manual and pretty bad in drive. I'm talking a flare of 1,500-2,000 RPM under moderate partial throttle. Under WOT it can bounce to almost 7k rpm for a second.

I busted out HP Tuners and flashed back to the factory tune and the flare is around 300-700rpm or so, and not as bad in drive. I'm assuming this is a seal issue and I'm going to take it to the dealer as I'm still within warranty, hopefully they will fix the trans. Video w/o tune:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAysJfdQPPw&hd=1

Assuming my car gets fixed, what is the deal tune wise? Should I drive over and get Patrick G to do my tune? Flash back and try g-force's tune again? Could g-force's tune have caused damage? G-force is a reputable shop.

What about the tune specifically influences this behavior and what can cause damage? I'm not familiar with TCM tuning, I've always had someone else tune TCM, all I've really tuned myself on the G8 is minor things like the speed limiter. I have tuned ECM myself on a 4th gen camaro for forced induction w/o issue, but again had someone else tune TCM. So I'm really trying to understand the tuning aspects of the TCM, is I guess what I'm saying.

[travis gore]

I really doubt that the tune did this. There is a TSB on this issue so even GM has admitted to the problem. Get it fixed then flash back the TCM tune

[oesman]

Well it's completely screwed now. Throwing P0700, P0796 and P2724 and wont hold gear and is in limp mode.

[STAGEUP]

Something physically is wrong there. Doesnt look to be tune related. Reason it got better when you flashed it to the stock tune was because you somewhat reset the trans learn when you relash the tcm. It will then learn again, and the problem with continue.

Sounds like its time to get that tsb done.

[KDRobb]

Can someone post the TSB?

[oesman]

Thanks guys, I think that makes sense. I had a flat bed take it to the dealer. Hopefully they warranty it. Searching for that TSB as well.

EDIT: Found the TSB I think http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=14829&highlight=flare

[oesman]

So the dealer is saying they will warranty it as long as it's not water damage. Barring trans cooler issues and flood waters, which I do not believe have occurred, it looks like they will warranty it. I'm supposed to even get a loaner tomorrow, been renting a shitty rental V6 mustang.

EDIT: Got a loaner, so far so good on the warranty stuff. They gave me a GMC Sierra SLE 5.3L with 4.9 miles on the clock, which is definitely an improvement from the rustang.

[travis gore]

^ good deal

[oesman]

So I'm supposed to get the G8 back tomorrow. Dealer had it for almost a month, but I'm not mad since they gave me a brand new truck to drive, and drive it I did, put over 1,200 miles on it. The total cost to me is very minor, they charged me a tiny bit of labor due to the corsa setup on it getting in the way.

I haven't seen the full list of repairs yet, the guy told me it was a minor overhaul, but... I've never heard of such a thing on something like this, so I asked him for details... and.... the details were clearly several pages long, not minor. Service rep rattled down the extensive list of line items and I came to the conclusion that they basically completely gutted the trans down to the case, cleaned it of debris, it and replaced pretty much every component. Basically sounds like the solenoids/valve body issue, incorrect pressure, fused clutch plates, tcm, etc... etc... I'll post the full list of parts replaced tomorrow.

These transmissions seem very complicated based on the assembly/service videos I've seen. I would have preferred they just swapped the trans out due to this level of damage, so I'm a little bit concerned, but I imagine it will be fine.

[AuuuSSSIII YA' LATA]

Believe bud, ur dealer would'be loved to just replace ur trans but due to something called a cost cap analysis gm deemed it cheaper to rebuild than replace. He used was "soft rebuild" I'm assuming. Our trans are fairly straight forward, it always looks complicated until you rebuild them a few times.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk

[AuuuSSSIII YA' LATA]

I CAN NOT type on this phone!

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk

[STAGEUP]

Glad you're back on the road!

[oesman]

Believe bud, ur dealer would'be loved to just replace ur trans but due to something called a cost cap analysis gm deemed it cheaper to rebuild than replace. He used was "soft rebuild" I'm assuming. Our trans are fairly straight forward, it always looks complicated until you rebuild them a few times.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk

Fair enough. It just looked complicated from the videos I've seen. He used the term "minor overhaul", then when questioned listed 4 pages of parts they checked and replaced. I told him it sounds like they replaced everything inside the case, based on my memory off the components. He said "well, we didn't replace the torque converter". That's not inside the case... but ok. EDIT: If it helps he said GM was billed somewhere close to $3k. I'm not really bitching, just found it funny. I'm gonna be happy if its fixed and lasts.


Glad you're back on the road!

Thanks! We will see how she holds up tomorrow when I pick her up.

[s/c'd cav]

what is your mileage ? did you have a extended warranty ?

mine flares from time to time , and hangs up pretty bad on wide open 3-4

[oesman]

what is your mileage ? did you have a extended warranty ?

mine flares from time to time , and hangs up pretty bad on wide open 3-4

I'm at 80kish, it's an 09 i daily drive. I still have the factory powertrain warranty for a couple of months. Not sure what your warranty status is, but they might take care of the TSB, maybe someone with some GM dealer experience could chime in.

[s/c'd cav]

im at 38k , but i know mine is a early 09 :( and think last i asked he said i was out on both :(

[mgm6.0l]

Sorry to see that your car had that big of an issue man. I've been lucky mine has hardly ever flared "knock on wood"
My cousins G8 on the other hand flares it's ass off constantly.

How's it running now?

[oesman]

Sorry to see that your car had that big of an issue man. I've been lucky mine has hardly ever flared "knock on wood"
My cousins G8 on the other hand flares it's ass off constantly.

How's it running now?

Will let you know when I pick it up in a few hours when the dealer opens. I would get the flare under control if you're still within warranty. Maybe even if you're out of it if it's not bad yet. I think driving it this way caused the massive internal damage. My understanding, and maybe it's wrong, is that the solenoids/valve body was not regulating pressure properly during shifts and that caused the long term damage. It was never *too* bad the whole time I've had the car, sure it got a little worse over time, but it was never bad enough to seem abnormal. Then it got REALLY obvious, every shift, huge blip (not 100RPM, >1000RPM!) a nd it's when I realized it was a problem, before I could get it into the dealer, no more staying in gear :(.

[AuuuSSSIII YA' LATA]

You need to set an appt, explain your concern with them, they need to verify the complaint and perform the tsb under warranty. They are going to tell you u need to pay diagnosis, if you know this is your problem dont sweat it it'll be covered which means you pay nothing, gm will not allow a dealer to charge for a repair they've deemed responsible for. Depending on how cool they are, they may try to scare you and say you'll have to pay for tear down and rebuild of your trans if no problem is found, I wouldn't worry about this if your sure it's messed up. I'm just letting you in on this, I do the dealership thing every day, actually still in my work clothes as I text.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk

[oesman]

I didn't get to talk to the rep I spoke on the phone with. Here is what the cashier printed for me:

- CH ENG Light came on and felt like auto trans was slipping or eng cutting out. Advise. (I never said engine cutting out....)
- CEL ON. Run diagnostic checks.
- Found trans quits pulling when hot and had P0756 SS 2 Valve performance stuck off.

Actions:

- Tear down to bare case to inspect for damage.
- Clean out metal and clutch debris.
- Found front pump cover sealing rings to 35R housing leaking causing a loss of apply pressure and fiber plate distress.
- SS 2 sticking in TCM.
- Flush trans cooler and trans cooler lines of metal and clutch debris.
- Tear down converter housing.
- Tear down pump assembly and pump cover.
- Replace converter seal.
- Replace turbine shaft o-ring.
- Replace pump cover and pump cover sealing rings, new design.
- Disassemble, clean and inspect all clutch housings.
- Replace all fiber clutch plates and 35R clutch housing.
- Disassemble upper and lower valve bodies.
- Inspect valves, valve bores, and valve trains for freedom of movement and proper operation.
- Replace valve body spacer plate and gaskets.
- Replace TCM and program.
- Replace internal trans filter.
- After programming perform last learn procedure.
- Perform fast learn procedure.

Parts:

VALVE 4.265 Y
Fluid 8.800 N
Clutch 4.164 Y
Seal 4.226 Y
Seal Kit 4.005 Y
Seal 4.123 Y
Plate Kit 4.163 Y
Plate 4.265 Y
Cover Kit 4.224 Y
Filter Kit 4.197 Y
Bolt 4.115 Y
Bolt 4.115 LSC
CORE RETURN

Non Warranty Items:
- Labor for exhaust work.
- Necessary to r&r right side engine mount and bracket for access to remove starter due to header installation.

[s/c'd cav]

does it feel any better now ?

[oesman]

It does shift well. The only thing. In manual it flares 2-3, once or twice after I first start the car :-/.

In sport/drive I've never seen it flare today. It's perfect in sport/drive. Not sure what I should do. I have warranty so I could wait on it. I'm also considering buying options for the next month or two. I could buy a truck (thinking ram laramie longhorn) and keep the G8 and supercharge it and turn it into a total track car. Put a built trans in it if this one fails again. Or I could sell the G8 and buy a C7. Or I could buy the truck, sell the G8 and buy a super low miles C6 and turn that into a track car. Or I could drive the G8 some more as a daily. I forgot how nice and quick this car is for it's size... I've been in love with it most the day.

[s/c'd cav]

wonder if it just needs to finish learning ?

[oesman]

wonder if it just needs to finish learning ?


Maybe, I've only put like 20-30 miles on it after reflashing.

[Stenguyen1]

Every car flares from 2-3 at first start and go. It's a safety mechanism that our cars have. Just like if you just start your car and take it down the track it must see forth gear for it to shift correctly into 4th.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[oesman]

Hmm you may be right. Not sure yet. I did some driving out to Conroe, had some drinks and dinner and drove back to Houston. Took the really rural backroads home so I could do some aggressive driving. So what I've found with the GForce Motorsports dyno tune config loaded:

1. I get absolutely no flare in Drive ever under any circumstance. Shifts are fairly crisp.

2. I get very occasional 2-3 flare in Sport, where it blips 200-800RPM under light-medium throttle. Occasional sloppy feeling shift.

3. I get very occasional 2-3 flare in Manual, where it blips 200-800RPM under light-medium throttle. Occasional sloppy feeling shift.

4. I get absolutely no flare when driving aggressively at medium-heavy throttle regardless of Drive/Sport/Manual modes. Shifts are very crisp.

5. I get absolutely no flare at wide open throttle regardless of Drive/Sport/Manual modes. Shifts are very crisp.

Before the trans broke I had crazy flare in all scenarios, including at shift points @ WOT.

I'm kind of considering taking it to Pat G for a dyno tune, feel a little less confident with GForce since they don't do a lot of these cars. I have limited TCM tuning understanding, I've always had someone else tune my trans on all GM cars. But the numbers GForce used in some of the tables feel wonky to me.