Need fuel pump ideas

[wreckwriter]

Fuel pump can't even begin to handle boost, drops from 60 to 40. Jeremy recommends dual in-tank pumps but I know this doesn't exist for G8s. Need ideas fast. Can't race my car til I get more pumpage. Thing is scary fast even detuned.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Some of the maggie posts I've sen had boost a pump info in them.

http://www.kennebell.net/accessories/boostapump/boostapump.htm

[GeorgeInNePa]

Get much more serious @ 9 psi of boost

Above 9 psi, the stock fuel pumps and fuel line are completely inadequate. Working in conjunction with APS and B & R Racing, here is the best game plan we have been able to come up with so far.

1. Drill two additional 3/8" holes in the lower portion of the stock plastic pump unit, so that more fuel can enter it.
2. Fabricate a small custom surge tank to be located in the trunk and run at zero pressure.
3. Reroute the stock feed line from the fuel tank into the surge tank.
4. Feed two small Walbro GSS392 inline fuel pumps from the surge tank.
5. Give each fuel pump a separate -06 AN feed line to the engine bay.
6. Install aftermarket (LS7) fuel rails with modified mounting brackets.
7. Install an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator, set for 60 psi.
8. Route a new return line, running into the new surge tank.
9. Route a new return line from the surge tank to the stock plastic pump unit.
10. Add more boost until completely satisfied. http://www.g8board.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

from this thread:
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5184&highlight=fuel+system

[wreckwriter]

Get much more serious @ 9 psi of boost

Above 9 psi, the stock fuel pumps and fuel line are completely inadequate. Working in conjunction with APS and B & R Racing, here is the best game plan we have been able to come up with so far.

1. Drill two additional 3/8" holes in the lower portion of the stock plastic pump unit, so that more fuel can enter it.
2. Fabricate a small custom surge tank to be located in the trunk and run at zero pressure.
3. Reroute the stock feed line from the fuel tank into the surge tank.
4. Feed two small Walbro GSS392 inline fuel pumps from the surge tank.
5. Give each fuel pump a separate -06 AN feed line to the engine bay.
6. Install aftermarket (LS7) fuel rails with modified mounting brackets.
7. Install an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator, set for 60 psi.
8. Route a new return line, running into the new surge tank.
9. Route a new return line from the surge tank to the stock plastic pump unit.
10. Add more boost until completely satisfied. http://www.g8board.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

from this thread:
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5184&highlight=fuel+system

Saw that, looks incredibly expensive and difficult.

[GeorgeInNePa]

What advice did Jeremy give? I'm sure he has feed custom turbo cars that had fuel problems.

What about using one of those inline pumps?

[norm8332]

That boost a pump runs the pump at a higher than rated voltage. Must be hard on it. My stock pump broke once so I'm biased. What boost are you running?

[Andy@Livernois]

boost-a-pumps work great to a certain point, once manofsteel (jay) pulls the trigger on the maggie we should have a better feel for everything. I honestly think the billet rails could be partially to blame. since the lines are bigger and so are the rails its more difficult to keep the pressure high. I would try a boost-a-pump first, they can help out a ton.

[wreckwriter]

What advice did Jeremy give? I'm sure he has feed custom turbo cars that had fuel problems.

What about using one of those inline pumps?

He suggested dual in-tank pumps, unfortunately as far as I know they don't exist. He said booster pump was an option but not his favorite option.

[PontiacDan]

That boost a pump runs the pump at a higher than rated voltage. Must be hard on it. My stock pump broke once so I'm biased. What boost are you running?

I have dual gt500 fuel pumps and a kenne belle boost-a-pump on my mustang without any issues--in fact, it is really overkill

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

He suggested dual in-tank pumps, unfortunately as far as I know they don't exist. He said booster pump was an option but not his favorite option.




It would require either modifying your existing pump hat assembly to accept a second pump or make an entirely new one. I have done both with other cars before. In some cases I found I could modify the existing hat to work well with the addition of another pump and the required hardware for it. In other cases the better option was to fabricate an entire in-tank assembly from scratch. I haven't looked at the G8 in-tank fuel components yet but once I do I will have a better feel for what I would do with it. I will end up doing dual Walbro GSS340's with a single -8 ran forward to billet rails and an Aero FPR w/ -6 return. Should support what I intend to make. Let me know if I can help with any ideas Wreck.

[wreckwriter]

It would require either modifying your existing pump hat assembly to accept a second pump or make an entirely new one. I have done both with other cars before. In some cases I found I could modify the existing hat to work well with the addition of another pump and the required hardware for it. In other cases the better option was to fabricate an entire in-tank assembly from scratch. I haven't looked at the G8 in-tank fuel components yet but once I do I will have a better feel for what I would do with it. I will end up doing dual Walbro GSS340's with a single -8 ran forward to billet rails and an Aero FPR w/ -6 return. Should support what I intend to make. Let me know if I can help with any ideas Wreck.

How do you feel about the various electric booster pumps?

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

How do you feel about the various electric booster pumps?



***lays down on the couch*** Well at first I didn't know how I felt.... and then.... oh wait a minute... :)


Ok on a more serious note. Which particular ones did you have in mind? I assume by booster pump you are referring to the inline fuel booster pumps and not the electronic voltage boosters for the pumps correct?

[wreckwriter]

***lays down on the couch*** Well at first I didn't know how I felt.... and then.... oh wait a minute... :)


Ok on a more serious note. Which particular ones did you have in mind? I assume by booster pump you are referring to the inline fuel booster pumps and not the electronic voltage boosters for the pumps correct?

Actually I was thinking about the voltage boosters. Lots of folks seem to use them with at least some success. I need to try to fix this as inexpensively as possible so looking for something easy to install most of all.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Actually I was thinking about the voltage boosters. Lots of folks seem to use them with at least some success. I need to try to fix this as inexpensively as possible so looking for something easy to install most of all.


If I were you that would be the first thing I would try as long as you plan to stay around that boost level for a while. If you plan to go much bigger anytime soon in the near future then it might save a little money and rework to just go to dual pumps and the mandatory associated upgrades right away. KB BAP will allow the support of a decent additional amount of hp. I have used them with other vehicles with good success when I just needed a relatively small boost.

[wreckwriter]

As for the boosters, so far I've had recommendations for the Kenne Bell and the MSD version. Looking for details on why any one is better and/or easier to install and adjust.

[wreckwriter]

If I were you that would be the first thing I would try as long as you plan to stay around that boost level for a while. If you plan to go much bigger anytime soon in the near future then it might save a little money and rework to just go to dual pumps and the mandatory associated upgrades right away. KB BAP will allow the support of a decent additional amount of hp. I have used them with other vehicles with good success when I just needed a relatively small boost.

Actually need to reduce the boost a bit. At 10 now, need 7 or 8.

[1ChargedG8]

I guess you and i are in the same boat as far fuel pump and boost issues. Perhaps you could still leave it at 10psi and install a water/meth kit. What's the pulley size on your D1SC, the pulley size is engraved on the front of the pulley

[wreckwriter]

Its 4.13. fuel pressure dumps from 40 to 60 at full boost. Current tune has shift points and rev limiter set very low to keep things from leaning out too much.

Would a meth kit and a booster pump get me back to safe territory while retaining that much boost?

[1ChargedG8]

Would a meth kit and a booster pump get me back to safe territory while retaining that much boost? Yes, as long as your tuner stay safe without advancing too much timing.

[wreckwriter]

Lot cheaper to drop the boost though....

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

If you can afford it then do the fuel upgrades to run the current amount of boost. If you cannot then just drop the boost a bit for now until you can afford it.

[wreckwriter]

KB boost-a-pump is a definite, but I think 10 lbs boost is still too much. Wondering could I run 10 safely if I added meth injection. Pricey to do both though, cheaper to add boost-a-pump and reduce boost to 7 or 8 for now I guess.

[norm8332]

hmmm...I was planning on running the maggie at 8 or 9 without any pump work.. I might have to look into this also. From what I read from others I thought you could run up to 9psi boost on the stock pump.

[Andy@Livernois]

hmmm...I was planning on running the maggie at 8 or 9 without any pump work.. I might have to look into this also. From what I read from others I thought you could run up to 9psi boost on the stock pump.

Well, we will have to wait and see exactly when it wants to run out of pump... I think Wreck's rails and line assembly might be part to blame, they hold alot more volume then the stock rails/lines so the pump has to flow more to maintain the same pressure @ the rail... It's a common problem we have seen on alot of returnless fuel systems.

[wreckwriter]

My mechanic is suggesting I install a Bosch 044 fuel pump inline rather than a BAP. He feels my issues may actually be volume related. He says they had very similar issues on a Viper race car and this took care of the problem.

Any thoughts on this? I have a very large amount of trust in this guy.

[Andy@Livernois]

I personally HATE inline pumps... I agree its volume related, but the inline pump still has to pull through the lower volume intank pump in the first place which makes the inline pump work harder, and possibly burn up. The boost-a-pump increases pump speed, which increases volume... We have used it on cars to go from about a 530rwhp setup with a stock pump to over 700 rwhp... It does quite well and we have never had one burn up.

[wreckwriter]

I personally HATE inline pumps... I agree its volume related, but the inline pump still has to pull through the lower volume intank pump in the first place which makes the inline pump work harder, and possibly burn up. The boost-a-pump increases pump speed, which increases volume... We have used it on cars to go from about a 530rwhp setup with a stock pump to over 700 rwhp... It does quite well and we have never had one burn up.

He's talking about replacing the stock pump, not pulling through it. Almost certainly increasing fuel line size too.

[Andy@Livernois]

eh... I personally would say if you are dropping the tank anyways just do a dual pump...

[wreckwriter]

eh... I personally would say if you are dropping the tank anyways just do a dual pump...

No dual setups exist for G8s. Sure something could be fabbed but cost increases for parts and labor pretty fast, yes?

[Andy@Livernois]

No dual setups exist for G8s. Sure something could be fabbed but cost increases for parts and labor pretty fast, yes?

I know there are no kits, but he would have to fab a pickup too... so there is still going to be fab work involved, and then you have the cost of splicing the pump inline too...

[wreckwriter]

I know there are no kits, but he would have to fab a pickup too... so there is still going to be fab work involved, and then you have the cost of splicing the pump inline too...

I know, nothing is cheap. Just want to get something a bit better than the booster IF it can be done for reasonable money.

[GTPprix]

Contact Racetronix, they built me a custom one off replacement unit for my last GTO magazine project car. It was the only drop in pump to date that could keep the bucket full and DIDNT run out of gas when it hit the 1/8th tank LOL

[wreckwriter]

I figure if the system he has in mind can support a full-race Viper V10 it should support mine.

[MtbDoc]

Contact Racetronix, they built me a custom one off replacement unit for my last GTO magazine project car. It was the only drop in pump to date that could keep the bucket full and DIDNT run out of gas when it hit the 1/8th tank LOL

Actually, the truck bucket w/ the Walbro pump is doing quite nicely. I originally did Bob's holes-in-the-bucket trick, but decided last year to try the new bucket. Works like a charm w/ the GTO + twins.

Is there any other bucket available? Has anyone tried to stuff a Walbro pump in the stock bucket? That + a good voltage booster seems to be enough for a LOT of horsepower.

[Andy@Livernois]

I figure if the system he has in mind can support a full-race Viper V10 it should support mine.

was the Viper NA? that could have ALOT to do with it... a NA car has very different fuel needs then an FI car...

[wreckwriter]

was the Viper NA? that could have ALOT to do with it... a NA car has very different fuel needs then an FI car...

I'll find out about the Viper. Do you not think 200 LPH at 72.5 PSI will be adequate?

[Andy@Livernois]

I'll find out about the Viper. Do you not think 200 LPH at 72.5 PSI will be adequate?

no, I think the stock pump probably produces more volume or about the same then that currently... Does anyone know if walbro supplies the OE pump? if so I can probably get some info from them on it...

[wreckwriter]

I haven't been able to get any solid info on the stock pump.

[djchubbs]

certain methods might be expensive but alot easier than pushing down the 1/4

[wreckwriter]

no, I think the stock pump probably produces more volume or about the same then that currently... Does anyone know if walbro supplies the OE pump? if so I can probably get some info from them on it...

Viper was NA but 680 RWHP.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Viper was NA but 680 RWHP.



Like Andy said, LIGHTYEARS of difference in the fuel requirements of a 680rwhp NA car versus a 680rwhp forced induction car. It becomes allot harder to flow the proper amount of fuel to the intake manifold when you have x amount of boost pressure pushing back against the fuel coming out of the injectors, thus limiting the amount of flow coming from the pump.

[wreckwriter]

I appreciate all the tips guys. I hear rumors out of California that someone may be coming out with an in-tank solution for us soon. I will probably go with a BAP at least until that happens.

[wreckwriter]

OK, now that I'm going with the Boost-a-pump, looking for ideas on where to mount it.

[Andy@Livernois]

in the trunk or cabin... they don't like moisture...

[GeorgeInNePa]

http://ls1turbo.com.au/us/fuel.html

http://ls1turbo.com.au/images/silentdrive.jpg

SILENTDRIVE 1 FUEL SYSTEM (as displayed on Fuel System page) $ 1,595
SILENTDRIVE 2 FUEL SYSTEM (as displayed on Fuel System page) $ 1,995

I think that's priced in Au dollars.

[wreckwriter]

That looks nice. Pricey as hell of course....

[GeorgeInNePa]

That looks nice. Pricey as hell of course....


Says the guy who just put a blower on his car...


;)

[wreckwriter]

Says the guy who just put a blower on his car...


;)

If I hadn't done that I could afford stuff like this!