What else? Staying NA

[G8GT594]

Alright guys, im trying to get the most out of this motor N/A. Mod list is in my sig. I'm taking the car to Livernois for ported intake and TB. What else can i do to get some more power? I know i can do an UDP but is that it? Anything else im missing here?

[bigwillys58]

i love the youtube vids of your car at the livernois shop!! i think f.a.s.t. has come out with a new intake manifold with a 102mm throttle body for the l76. its pretty pricy though. that and maybe a bigger cam and higher stall converter. i dont believe heads would be worth the money. my understanding (please correct me if that is not the case) is that these heads flow extremely well and since yours have been ported the gain really wouldnt be worth the cost.

[GeorgeInNePa]

The pulley wouldn't be a bad addition, but if I were you, I'd put the 200 towards having the heads ported and polished. Having them shaved for more compression wouldn't suck either.

;)

[GeorgeInNePa]

i love the youtube vids of your car at the livernois shop!! i think f.a.s.t. has come out with a new intake manifold with a 102mm throttle body for the l76. its pretty pricy though. that and maybe a bigger cam and higher stall converter. i dont believe heads would be worth the money. my understanding (please correct me if that is not the case) is that these heads flow extremely well and since yours have been ported the gain really wouldnt be worth the cost.


The 102mm tb and intake MSRP for $1k, each. The ported intake and tb will flow more than enough air for the set-up he has.

[GRRRR8]

Pulley, converter and some drag radials. Then think 3.27 gears and a 100 shot. :devil:

[G8GT594]

The pulley wouldn't be a bad addition, but if I were you, I'd put the 200 towards having the heads ported and polished. Having them shaved for more compression wouldn't suck either.

;)

Heads are shaved, but i did not get them ported and polished. I know these heads flow well so im not sure if i want to spend the cash on it. Converter is for sure in the soon future... tax return LOL.

What this talk about VMS removing the MAF screen. 8HP increase sounds nice. Obviously it will need to be retuned after intake/tb.. wonder if its worth a shot.

[G8GT594]

i love the youtube vids of your car at the livernois shop!! i think f.a.s.t. has come out with a new intake manifold with a 102mm throttle body for the l76. its pretty pricy though. that and maybe a bigger cam and higher stall converter. i dont believe heads would be worth the money. my understanding (please correct me if that is not the case) is that these heads flow extremely well and since yours have been ported the gain really wouldnt be worth the cost.

Thanks!

I like the stage 1 cam for its street manners, i know i could throw a stage 2 in there or custom grind but im really liking the stage 1. You are right, these heads flow very well. Stall will come... Just brain storming,,,,

[GRRRR8]

The 102mm tb and intake MSRP for $1k, each. The ported intake and tb will flow more than enough air for the set-up he has.

I didnt think FAST made a drive by wire throttle body. It will take more then most of us have to benefit from that investment.

[GeorgeInNePa]

I didnt think FAST made a drive by wire throttle body. It will take more then most of us have to benefit from that investment.I don't know for sure, I do know that it's more than I'm prepared to spend for a throttle body.

[Mike P]

Alright guys, im trying to get the most out of this motor N/A. Mod list is in my sig. I'm taking the car to Livernois for ported intake and TB. What else can i do to get some more power? I know i can do an UDP but is that it? Anything else im missing here?


I think we're going the same route Paul. Because I'm totally just going to keep mine all motor too. :)



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[G8GT594]

Ok so here is what we have:

Ported intake/tb
UDP
Converter
Ported and Polished heads
Bigger Cam -- not sure about that just yet.

Anything else im missing?

[GRRRR8]

Maybe better/lighter rocker arms. I am waiting on this. I will use stockers for now........I think! :)

[Darkside]

Ok so here is what we have:

Ported intake/tb
UDP
Converter
Ported and Polished heads
Bigger Cam -- not sure about that just yet.

Anything else im missing?

Gears.

[G8GT594]

Gears.

I'm prolly going to hold off on gears for a while. Want to wait for there to be a bigger selection for this car.

[wreckwriter]

Gears would give the biggest bang of all IF you could maintain traction.

[Andy@Livernois]

i love the youtube vids of your car at the livernois shop!! i think f.a.s.t. has come out with a new intake manifold with a 102mm throttle body for the l76. its pretty pricy though. that and maybe a bigger cam and higher stall converter. i dont believe heads would be worth the money. my understanding (please correct me if that is not the case) is that these heads flow extremely well and since yours have been ported the gain really wouldnt be worth the cost.

just to clarify, There is zero portwork on paul's heads, intake, or antying, it just has a valve job and a resurfacing on the heads... :D


The pulley wouldn't be a bad addition, but if I were you, I'd put the 200 towards having the heads ported and polished. Having them shaved for more compression wouldn't suck either.

;)

I really think porting the heads would be not needed, MAYBE the exhaust side, but the intake is already awesome with the valve job...


Gears would give the biggest bang of all IF you could maintain traction.

I would be inclined to agree :D

[G8GT594]

Alright, well ported tb and intake as well as the udp is off the list. Getting that done next week.

[jbradsh1]

Alright guys, im trying to get the most out of this motor N/A. Mod list is in my sig. I'm taking the car to Livernois for ported intake and TB. What else can i do to get some more power? I know i can do an UDP but is that it? Anything else im missing here?

Paul, you can't be serious. You just got the stage one cam in and you want more power?! Well, I sure can't wait to get a ride in your car, if the weather gods will permit it.

Mike, you need to come on down to Detroit in a couple of weeks.

[Blackrider]

Heads are shaved, but i did not get them ported and polished. I know these heads flow well so im not sure if i want to spend the cash on it. Converter is for sure in the soon future... tax return LOL.

What this talk about VMS removing the MAF screen. 8HP increase sounds nice. Obviously it will need to be retuned after intake/tb.. wonder if its worth a shot.

When VMS was tuning the GXP slayer package, they noticed a large depression in the intake manifold, which was being caused by the MAF sensor screen, after removing it and retuning the depression was gone. Thats where they're pick up 8HP.

[G8GT594]

When VMS was tuning the GXP slayer package, they noticed a large depression in the intake manifold, which was being caused by the MAF sensor screen, after removing it and retuning the depression was gone. Thats where they're pick up 8HP.

We actually did some extensiive testing and got different results from that. Check out the thread...
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[trite]

Doesn't Livernois or someone make a stroker kit?

[GRRRR8]

Many options available, but most want to see what the stock short block will do. I am shooting for 11.30s with the stock shortblock.

[G8GT594]

Doesn't Livernois or someone make a stroker kit?

I'm sure they can do it... just not in the price range right now.... But yes i do want to push the short block to the limit.

[GRRRR8]

We actually did some extensiive testing and got different results from that. Check out the thread...
BlackBerry8330/4.5.0.77 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105

What I havent seen is WAS it tuned for the OTR and then RETUNED for the screen removal. I think that is what everyone is trying to figure out. The OTR is a straight shot so I would assume that it would have less possibilities of a depression that the RotoFab elbow would create as per talking to Patrick at Vararam today.

[Mike P]

Paul, you can't be serious. You just got the stage one cam in and you want more power?! Well, I sure can't wait to get a ride in your car, if the weather gods will permit it.

Mike, you need to come on down to Detroit in a couple of weeks.


I know. I would totally like too. When are you going to be up here in Michigan / Detroit?

Then I can check my work schedule and stuff?

I would really like to check out Paul's beast of a car too......



...

[jbradsh1]

I know. I would totally like too. When are you going to be up here in Michigan / Detroit?

Then I can check my work schedule and stuff?

I would really like to check out Paul's beast of a car too......

...

I'll keep you posted but it should be within the next 10 days to 2 weeks.

[Mike P]

I'll keep you posted but it should be within the next 10 days to 2 weeks.


Sounds like the timing might be very good. I've got the whole week of Sunday 2/22 - Saturday 2/28 off, except I have to work Monday 2/23.

Sounds good....



...

['02 ws6]

I'm sure they can do it... just not in the price range right now.... But yes i do want to push the short block to the limit.


Go really aggressive custom cam w/ a full P/P on your heads, then you can necessitate a FAST 102, coupled w/ a stall, gears, and REALLY good tires. Then you may be in the market for some nice Hendrix Axles!

[G8-4-Speed]

Maybe better/lighter rocker arms. I am waiting on this. I will use stockers for now........I think! :)

The 1.85 SLP rockers are a very nice piece. They really need a .050" longer set of pushrods as there is almost no pre load on the lifters. They tend to tick on startup. Waiting on a new cam since they will most likely need something longer. It is quiet most of the time and shouldn't hurt anything.

[GRRRR8]

I like the Jesels, but cant sell my kid to get them! My pushrods are 7.350 for non DOD and the stock LS3s are 7.325 if that helps.

[G8-4-Speed]

What I havent seen is WAS it tuned for the OTR and then RETUNED for the screen removal. I think that is what everyone is trying to figure out. The OTR is a straight shot so I would assume that it would have less possibilities of a depression that the RotoFab elbow would create as per talking to Patrick at Vararam today.

Isn't there less filter area on the OTR vs stock or CAI? It is a very nice piece but could the filter be a restriction on a high powered application?

[GRRRR8]

Anything is better then stock. The Vararam will feed 750hp + HP on flow bench testing. The Roto with my mods works very well, but on a flow bench did not flow with Vararam as per Vararam testing.

[The Commodore]

I would say wait for the Vararam or get a NEP OTR. I would like to see if it gives better flow in your app. than the elbow CAI.

Also...how about exhaust cut outs? I'm sure you would gain power, sound like an illegal drag racer, and get pulled over...

[jbradsh1]

So if you were to get a cam would you replace the RF with a new Vararam?

[G8GT594]

I personally dont think its worth it to spend the 300 bucks on the on the vararam to replace the rotofab. Ya it will obviously flow better since its a straight shot. Ill keep it in mind though. Although i will prolly stick with the RF.

[The Commodore]

I personally dont think its worth it to spend the 300 bucks on the on the vararam to replace the rotofab. Ya it will obviously flow better since its a straight shot. Ill keep it in mind though. Although i will prolly stick with the RF.

Sell the RF for $200.

['02 ws6]

I like the Jesels, but cant sell my kid to get them!

That's no lie!

Harland Sharp will rebuild/improve the stock rocker design, but I am confident w/ the stockers capabilities, just like all other ls motors.

[G8GT594]

Sell the RF for $200.

I may depending how much horsepower increase we see after pulling the maf screen and retuning for it... I'm still waiting to see this 8hp increase....

[The Commodore]

I may depending how much horsepower increase we see after pulling the maf screen and retuning for it... I'm still waiting to see this 8hp increase....

Would removing it make it prone to damage?

[G8GT594]

Would removing it make it prone to damage?

Possibly. If you have a tuned car already you should NOT remove. If you do it will need to be retuned. The only way i can see it theoritically picking up 8hp is if you pull the screen on a completely stock car.

[GRRRR8]

The screen was an issue on a MODDED car not a stock car. My guess is the Roto started to peter out at the 400+ RWHP range, and the screen removal relieved the depression. On a OTR you are less likely to have that type of depression. Now its just a matter of how many cfm an OTR or any intake can flow to support 450-500 HP.

[G8GT594]

The screen was an issue on a MODDED car not a stock car. My guess is the Roto started to peter out at the 400+ RWHP range, and the screen removal relieved the depression. On a OTR you are less likely to have that type of depression. Now its just a matter of how many cfm an OTR or any intake can flow to support 450-500 HP.

Yes i know it was an issue on a modded car... i was there for the tests. Also as i was trying to say i don't see an 8hp increase on a modded car as some are claiming. On a STOCK CAR i see see why there would be a 5-10HP increase.

[GRRRR8]

Once again, 2 DIFFERENT air intakes. I find all of this really funny if you want to know the truth. I do a ton of testing on products and know why things work and dont work, probably the same reason I was in the 12s months ago with WAY less mods then our current 12sec members. Very soon I will be raising the bar yet again and I will get some more really good laughs on all that happens after that too. I dont know why this "screen" thing turned into what it has, but it did. It shows me how little some know about controlled, consistent testing. Running a test with 2 different intakes that have 2 different combos, on competitors dynos at that is a joke. I HIGHLY respect Livernois and Vector Motorsports and it seems that this whole post proved nothing except to confuse those that really dont know and to show how much some that posted dont know. I have found its OK not to know, as I have read a few hours now on depressions and spoke with Patrick at Vararam for close to 5 hours on this topic long before this thread/post was made. That still doesnt make me an expert. It just puts me further ahead of the HP game then 98% of the people that posted on this and yes my car is faster then theirs too. With or without a screen!

[G8GT594]

Once again, 2 DIFFERENT air intakes. I find all of this really funny if you want to know the truth. I do a ton of testing on products and know why things work and dont work, probably the same reason I was in the 12s months ago with WAY less mods then our current 12sec members. Very soon I will be raising the bar yet again and I will get some more really good laughs on all that happens after that too. I dont know why this "screen" thing turned into what it has, but it did. It shows me how little some know about controlled, consistent testing. Running a test with 2 different intakes that have 2 different combos, on competitors dynos at that is a joke. I HIGHLY respect Livernois and Vector Motorsports and it seems that this whole post proved nothing except to confuse those that really dont know and to show how much some that posted dont know. I have found its OK not to know, as I have read a few hours now on depressions and spoke with Patrick at Vararam for close to 5 hours on this topic long before this thread/post was made. That still doesnt make me an expert. It just puts me further ahead of the HP game then 98% of the people that posted on this and yes my car is faster then theirs too. With or without a screen!

Im just quoting what you said "It has to be at least the same intake" So now it is 2 cars with the same intake. Screw the rest of the setup. Claiming different headers, cam specs blah blah is garbage. 8HP is quite an increase from popping the screen. So lets see at least half of that. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong. I'm just having trouble believing it.

[GRRRR8]

So It has been tested with a RotoFab at Livernois and been tuned for no screen? So saying screw the rest of the combo means that Kirk lied? Or does it mean that you really dont know anything about what this all about and like to post to further confuse people. Help me understand! I have all day!

[Blackdevil77]

Jesus Paul! Once you get to around 500 rwhp/tq, I would seriously consider strengthening up the rear. Axle's, drive shaft, tranny wouldn't hurt.
Can't wait for my livernois stage 1 cam and ported heads :) Still got a wait though. Damn low paying job :(

[G8GT594]

So It has been tested with a RotoFab at Livernois and been tuned for no screen? So saying screw the rest of the combo means that Kirk lied? Or does it mean that you really don't know anything about what this all about and like to post to further confuse people. Help me understand! I have all day!

I'm not saying kirk lied. To come up with that accusation is absurd nor am I claiming to know the ins and out of this. From what I've read and gathered removing the screen on a stock car could see the increase of 8hp. But on a heavily modded car it might vary. Thus we are going to try this out on my car with the same intake. No disrespect but I'm going to drop this debate as its looks like its going to lead to an argument.
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[GRRRR8]

So it hasnt been tested. OK, to be fair to you I will say this and this should clear it up for everyone. Now keep in mind this is an assumption om my part. Kirk had a G8 on the dyno doing cam swaps to find power level increases. On his last cam selection while tuning, he found a 8kpa depression. He removed the screen and retuned and got 8hp/12tq. This mod on this G8 with this combo produced these results. Nowhere did I read that he said for anyone to remove their screen and they would see the same results. Being that we are all HP junkies, Jay does the test and doesnt get the results and here we are today, Sunday 1:22pm cst realizing that Kirk NEVER said it would have any effect on any car except the one he was testing. We all want free/cheap/easy HPs, shit I am the king of them, but I did not switch back to my screenless MAF when I read his post. It did make me realize that this was a gain on cars as in the past, but combo and air intake would be critical in the gain you might receive.

[G8GT594]

So it hasnt been tested.


It has not been tested of as of yet.... But as your said Free/Cheap HP is best. Should see some results next week sometime.

[The Commodore]

Would 7/8 LTs free up some more power?

[GRRRR8]

Yes they would. It has been said since the begining that 1 3/4 with no major mods and anything else 1 7/8

[The Commodore]

Yes they would. It has been said since the begining that 1 3/4 with no major mods and anything else 1 7/8

Is there any drawbacks to going with 7/8 and not doing major mods?

[G8GT594]

Would 7/8 LTs free up some more power?

Yes with bigger mods. I never thought I was going to mod this car as much as I did.
BlackBerry8330/4.5.0.77 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105

[GRRRR8]

Is there any drawbacks to going with 7/8 and not doing major mods?

Not really. If you lose a little HP/TQ down low, it offsets the major wheelspin issues we on on street tires. My engine is still stock and without brake torqing it I can smoke the tires endlessly with 1 7/8.

[The Commodore]

Not really. If you lose a little HP/TQ down low, it offsets the major wheelspin issues we on on street tires. My engine is still stock and without brake torqing it I can smoke the tires endlessly with 1 7/8.

Good because I plan on doing OTR/Ram-air with LTs and tune and I plan on later (maybe a year) getting a cam done. I think I will do the 7/8s ARH.

[G8GT594]

Good because I plan on doing OTR/Ram-air with LTs and tune and I plan on later (maybe a year) getting a cam done. I think I will do the 7/8s ARH.

If you getting the cam done do the 7/8ths for sure.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Keep in mind, about the headers, SS Enforcer's car has 1 3/4" LTs. He runs 11.60s.

The difference between 3/4 and 7/8 is about the same as the screen mods that is causing so much confusion.

Chew on that for a while.


lol

[G8GT594]

Keep in mind, about the headers, SS Enforcer's car has 1 3/4" LTs. He runs 11.60s.

The difference between 3/4 and 7/8 is about the same as the screen mods that is causing so much confusion.

Chew on that for a while.


lol

The difference being the screen mod is free lol.

[MtbDoc]

The screen issue becomes relevant when the engine is SUCKING IN MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF AIR! It will produce some measurable pressure drop but it seems not to be significant until you are truly making a ton of NA horsepower.

The Aussies LOVE to get rid of the maf and speed-density tune their cars. Here folks tend to want to keep a maf. Many think that just randomly removing the screen is going to make a difference...and don't realize what issue it causes with maf calibration.

[bigwillys58]

I didnt think FAST made a drive by wire throttle body.

your prolly right. i didnt do much research on it

[G8GT594]

The screen issue becomes relevant when the engine is SUCKING IN MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF AIR! It will produce some measurable pressure drop but it seems not to be significant until you are truly making a ton of NA horsepower.

The Aussies LOVE to get rid of the maf and speed-density tune their cars. Here folks tend to want to keep a maf. Many think that just randomly removing the screen is going to make a difference...and don't realize what issue it causes with maf calibration.

Well if nearing 500whp is not a significant amount of NA hp i dont know what is. But we will see....

[MtbDoc]

Well if nearing 500whp is not a significant amount of NA hp i dont know what is. But we will see....

My point is that there WILL be a pressure drop across the screen. What level of significance is what is being debated, and honestly: the only way to know is to measure it...which I realize you are trying to do.

[The Commodore]

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11503

He says he gained 9hp from removing the screen yet only 9hp from a tune...

Not sure what to think about it, just wanted to post it in here since there was some discussion about it.

[JohnBlaze]

I was under the impression the screen is there to smooth air flow so the Mass Air Flow meter can get better readings allowing the On Board Computer to do what it does...