How to get the GT rated at 415 RWHP?

[Executor999]

This post is to generate discussion and because I want to know how it can be done. While I'm not going to post a budget cap, the idea is to list the mods that can achieve this without compromising the driveability (sic) of the car as a DD . Please list the mods in priority that can get the GT rated at 415 rear wheel HP.

[SpectreG8GT]

plenty of people driving magnacharged GTs as daily drivers

[r33pwrd]

maggie.... you need about 125HP and your not gonna do it easily without FI... Unless your willing to go into the motor with BIG cam.

[p71]

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4473

[GRRRR8]

A small cam DOD or not and supporting mods should easily accomplish this.

[r33pwrd]

A small cam DOD or not and supporting mods should easily accomplish this.

to the wheels?? what does yours dyno at?

[GRRRR8]

I havent had it on the dyno yet, but I would guess with the motor still stock probably 380-390. Before we get the doubters, factor in all whats been done to my car vs cars that have dynoed 360-370 without all the mods I have.

[TheTugBoat]

Wouldn't take that big of a cam + bolt-ons to see 400+...Charlie may even be very close, and I bet if you push the a/f tables to the limit you might hit 400.

[PantherGTBlack]

Livernois advertises a kit with non-DOD cam, full exhuast, tune, air intake that will put you in the 420rwhp range.

[GRRRR8]

Wouldn't take that big of a cam + bolt-ons to see 400+...Charlie may even be very close, and I bet if you push the a/f tables to the limit you might hit 400.

I think 390-400 RWHP could be had without a cam or heads. It would take every bolt-on and a killer tune and that sums up my car! :)

[Executor999]

That's something I'm trying to find out. Is 400 RWHP achievable without a cam and head swap? Right now my mods are light. A tune, cold air intake and I plan on headers and a torque converter. But I don't think those mods will be enough.

[GRRRR8]

Pulley, intake and throttle body will be next to add on the list.

[Executor999]

What intake model? Or do you mean just porting both the intake and throttle body?

[SpectreG8GT]

Pulley, intake and throttle body will be next to add on the list.


I'm having my intake and throttle body ported and polished by NEP while I'm away from spring break :woohoo:

[r33pwrd]

I think 390-400 RWHP could be had without a cam or heads. It would take every bolt-on and a killer tune and that sums up my car! :)

I guess I will see what happens on mine... But I have / will have every bolt on that I can think of:

-Kooks LT
-UD pulley
-OTR
-Tune

and I dont expect to be anywhere 400 at the wheels... But man I would be happy if I was! Would have to look like this:

40hp from headers 20 from tune 20 from intake 10 from UD and I dont think it will happen! Not being a hater but I think that would be hard to do... like I said I hope mine can do it :)

[GRRRR8]

What intake model? Or do you mean just porting both the intake and throttle body?

Ported intake and throttle body.

[r33pwrd]

I dont consider a ported intake a bolt on... but we wont argue about thet one :)

[GRRRR8]

Anything that increases HP is a bolt on. Keep in mind, its not always the HP you make, its the HP you dont lose to things like heat soak.

[r33pwrd]

Anything that increases HP is a bolt on. Keep in mind, its not always the HP you make, its the HP you dont lose to things like heat soak.

so a cam is bolt on?

[GRRRR8]

I guess I will see what happens on mine... But I have / will have every bolt on that I can think of:

-Kooks LT
-UD pulley
-OTR
-Tune

and I dont expect to be anywhere 400 at the wheels... But man I would be happy if I was! Would have to look like this:

40hp from headers 20 from tune 20 from intake 10 from UD and I dont think it will happen! Not being a hater but I think that would be hard to do... like I said I hope mine can do it :)

I think if you move the #s around and add 12 for the intake/TB, a little less for the headers and a little more for a more aggressive tune, you can get close.

[PantherGTBlack]

so a cam is bolt on?

That's exactly what I was thinking...:watch:

[GRRRR8]

Bolt ons have always been just that. Cam and heads are bolt ons, they are not cheap, but they are bolt ons.

[r33pwrd]

Bolt ons have always been just that. Cam and heads are bolt ons, they are not cheap, but they are bolt ons.

Well in that case there really is nothing that is not a bolt on part? A 427 blown is nothing more than a "bolt on" mod???

[GRRRR8]

Usually once a motor is swapped/stroked/forged internals those are not considered bolt ons. If it bolts to the stock short block it is a bolt on. The only difference is if its a N/A or power adder combo.

[SpectreG8GT]

certain mods add more power with supporting mods as well. A ported intake and throttle body won't add but maybe 10 hp with the stock airbox, but with a CAI the same throttle body and intake will add 20 or more.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Look at all the 1/4 mile "lists" on the car boards.

"Bolt-Ons" are anything you don't open the motor for.

CAI
Headers
Pully
Tune
Converter
Ported Intake
Ported Throttle Body
Gears
etc


Removing the front cover to install cam? = not a bolt on
Removing the valve covers to install and or port heads? = not a bolt on

etc

Some people consider aftermarket rocker arms to be a bolt on. Could go either way on that one.

ETA:

Any type of Forced Induction is not considered a bolt on. NO2 is not a bolt on.

[r33pwrd]

Usually once a motor is swapped/stroked/forged internals those are not considered bolt ons. If it bolts to the stock short block it is a bolt on. The only difference is if its a N/A or power adder combo.

IMO o"bolt ons" are mods that are bolt on, not in a motor... just my 2 cents. When someone says I have bolt on mods I assume they do not have a cam or heads .......

[SpectreG8GT]

I always considered "bolt on" to mean any mod you could do at home with no more than your standard 300 or so piece tool set and a regular jack.

[GeorgeInNePa]

I always considered "bolt on" to mean any mod you could do at home with no more than your standard 300 or so piece tool set and a regular jack.

Well then the Powerbond pulley wouldn't count because I'm pretty sure your 300pc tool set doesn't include a 3 jaw puller.

;)

[SpectreG8GT]

Well then the Powerbond pulley wouldn't count because I'm pretty sure your 300pc tool set doesn't include a 3 jaw puller.

;)

well that's a pretty sketchy area. obviously it's a cheap and relatively easy mod. it doesn't require any specialized knowledge, but it does require a special tool.

[g8_795]

Andy over at Livernois says the stage II cam or a stage I cam with a VJ will put you about 440-450 rwhp with all of the required mods (headers, cai, tune, etc..) I am installing the stage II as soon as it shows up on my door step and am hoping to be on the higher end of that range.

[racerns]

I 'm sorry but with the baby cam that is in these cars I don't see 390 or 400 rwhp without a cam or power adder of some sort.

I have always considered a "bolt-on" a part that did not require major disassembly of other parts of the car to install. You are bolting off the old part and bolting on the new part.

[GeorgeInNePa]

I 'm sorry but with the baby cam that is in these cars I don't see 390 or 400 rwhp without a cam or power adder of some sort.

I have always considered a "bolt-on" a part that did not require major disassembly of other parts of the car to install. You are bolting off the old part and bolting on the new part.

Is that why you're still claiming quickest bolt on G8?

;)

[GRRRR8]

Is that why you're still claiming quickest bolt on G8?

;)

LOL! I saw that on the other site and was :confused: :hmm:.

[MtbDoc]

Yeah, I never considered a cam as a 'bolt-on' either. Truth be told, it sounds like 'bolting on' a maggie is much easier than a cam swap on this car! The only car I ever swapped a cam was a 289 in my '66 'vert back a zillion years ago. I pulled the heads a the time for a valve job as the car had a LOT of miles. Pretty easy when there was just a radiator, water pump, and timing cover to take off.

I miss working on the old cars with ROOM under the hood...

[-Ray-]

Why don't we start a discussion thread about bolt on's and leave this one to a discussion on what it takes to get to 400 hp at the wheels.
My G8 is at 368 with tune, headers, UDP, CAI. It hasn't been tuned since the headers were added, and now that I have the intake and TB ported, I think I could get close to 385 at the wheels without a cam.

[GRRRR8]

Thats what I am saying Ray. I used your car as an example of what is being done.

[r33pwrd]

Why don't we start a discussion thread about bolt on's and leave this one to a discussion on what it takes to get to 400 hp at the wheels.
My G8 is at 368 with tune, headers, UDP, CAI. It hasn't been tuned since the headers were added, and now that I have the intake and TB ported, I think I could get close to 385 at the wheels without a cam.

so you picked up about 70hp with tune and UD and headers? thats pretty damn good!

[GRRRR8]

so you picked up about 70hp with tune and UD and headers? thats pretty damn good!

And a RotoFab w/HSRK.

[-Ray-]

Yep! My mods are Vector tune, UDP, Roto-Fab, American Racing headers, now ported and polished intake and throttle body. Will get flash express and have Kirk re-tune.
I can't do a cam yet, as I haven't even had a chance to run 1/4 mile with the headers.
Cam next.

[The Commodore]

I have been thinking about this hard lately.

Has anybody done OTR with hearders, UD, tune, HSRK? Would the OTR catch some more power down the road with different bolt-ons compared to the fender style CAI?

How are the Aussie guys doing it?(I know they do not have to deal with DOD)

[GT G8]

Anything that increases HP is a bolt on.

Good thing I bought that 100-pack of stickers from Kragen. I gotta be at like 6,743 whp! Whooooo!!

[GRRRR8]

Good thing I bought that 100-pack of stickers from Kragen. I gotta be at like 6,743 whp! Whooooo!!

LOL! It has to have bolts to get HP. :)

[todds87ss]

Why don't we start a discussion thread about bolt on's and leave this one to a discussion on what it takes to get to 400 hp at the wheels.
My G8 is at 368 with tune, headers, UDP, CAI. It hasn't been tuned since the headers were added, and now that I have the intake and TB ported, I think I could get close to 385 at the wheels without a cam.

:woohoo:Finally...In a discussion about real numbers, someone supplies real numbers. Thanks, Ray. Other doubters, please post results. We are all interested in gaining real HP, and dyno numbers may be slightly skewed, but are certainly more objective than opinions.
I wish I could supply the dyno numbers from my combo as well, but it was so powerful that it blew up the Dynojet!:nah:

[r33pwrd]

Yep! My mods are Vector tune, UDP, Roto-Fab, American Racing headers, now ported and polished intake and throttle body. Will get flash express and have Kirk re-tune.
I can't do a cam yet, as I haven't even had a chance to run 1/4 mile with the headers.
Cam next.

have you run 1/4 mile at all? that interest me more than the dyno number?did you dyno stock?

[-Ray-]

have you run 1/4 mile at all? that interest me more than the dyno number?did you dyno stock?

I ran 13.396 @ 107.25. Temp was 78 and humidity was 65 percent. 865 alt.
This was before the headers. I did have Magnaflo axle backs.
Stock tune below. BTW, the stock tune had New Era's CAI on it. Kirk added the hsrk for me.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t16/ElecBlueG6GT/G8%20dyno/G8Vectortune.jpg

[r33pwrd]

330 on a stock tune?? that seams really hight to me...

[GRRRR8]

302 was his stock # on the dyno sheet to the right.

[-Ray-]

Vector's dyno is notoriously stingy also.

[jbradsh1]

This post is to generate discussion and because I want to know how it can be done. While I'm not going to post a budget cap, the idea is to list the mods that can achieve this without compromising the driveability (sic) of the car as a DD . Please list the mods in priority that can get the GT rated at 415 rear wheel HP.

cat back, high flow cats, cai, cam, tune ... abra cadabra, you're there.

[TT C6]

Guys, add a conservative amount of boost with a conservative tune and call it a day.
Bottom line, I think going with naturally aspirated mods on a 4,000lb car with a BRAND new motor isn't going to give you the best return on your investment.

You can forget the old Maggie 112 and 122. They are outdated and were never that good on a 5.7L or larger engine to begin with.
The new TVS2300 is the real deal and there is a reason GM is putting it on the $120,000 ZR1 Corvette. I LOVE the centri systems that East Coast Supercharging (ECS) designed, fabricated, and have been installing/tuning for the Corvettes for the last 10+ years. But, a 4,000lb+ street car needs a TON of low end torque.
The best way to get that is a twin screw, twin turbo, or TVS blower.

I like the TVS because of the OEM tested reliability. But, twin turbos are KING if you have the budget and no one can deny the grunt of the KenneBell/Whipple twin screw combinations out there.

There is NO replacement for boost; especially for street driving manners. As long as you are conservative with the boost and have a EXPERT dyno tune your combo, there is NO reason you can't have a reliable combo for the street that will blow away the comparably priced N/A combos.

[GRRRR8]

4000lb car with 500+ft lbs of torque is going to be hard on the trans if the car is raced/abused regularly. I love boost dont get me wrong, but the power the Vette trans takes is at about 700 lbs less weight. I hope the trans takes it as I will be around 500 HP N/A.

[The Commodore]

I like the idea of N/A HP over boosted.

The way I look at it...you can go N/A, and if it still isn't good enough...then you can blow it.

[norm8332]

I hope it takes it because my car was just picked up and the maggie is going in!

[GRRRR8]

Norm you will be fine. I am talking about the 500+ ft lb of TQ cars on hard launches.

[norm8332]

Norm you will be fine. I am talking about the 500+ ft lb of TQ cars on hard launches.

Yeah, your right I'm only going to 9psi for now.

[TT C6]

I like the idea of N/A HP over boosted.

The way I look at it...you can go N/A, and if it still isn't good enough...then you can blow it.

It's a nice thought. One i held onto for a while. But, the best N/a setup will NOT work for FI. Cam, compression, and gearing will all HURT you when going to FI. If I were you and were not ready for FI, do headers. Because, they will help you no matter whether you go FI or NA.

Bottom line, FI will deliver the best street manners and most power/torque. At 4,000lbs, the G8 needs ALL the torque it can get. Besides, all roads lead to boost. It's inevitable.

[TT C6]

I love boost dont get me wrong, but the power the Vette trans takes is at about 700 lbs less weight. I hope the trans takes it as I will be around 500 HP N/A.
That is the EXACT point I called ECS with yesterday. I am concerned for the auto trans because of the extra curb weight.
If it was me, I'd initially tune the 100% stock car to 500-550 rear wheel with just the blower and headers. I'd run it for a while to see how everything held up.

When you guys day "Maggie" you ARE talking about the TVS 2300, right?
Anything less than a TVS 2300, or AT LEAST a TVS 1900, would be a COMPLETE mistake.

[The Commodore]

It's a nice thought. One i held onto for a while. But, the best N/a setup will NOT work for FI. Cam, compression, and gearing will all HURT you when going to FI. If I were you and were not ready for FI, do headers. Because, they will help you no matter whether you go FI or NA.

Bottom line, FI will deliver the best street manners and most power/torque. At 4,000lbs, the G8 needs ALL the torque it can get. Besides, all roads lead to boost. It's inevitable.

I think I am just going to stay NA. I'm getting LTs soon as well as the Vararam and will see where I want to go from there. I'm looking to break into 12.5 and I think I can do that with LTs/ram-air/cam/tune.

I want a setup similar to Paul's(G8GT594) car. I am very curious to see what his car runs when all the snow lifts up over in MI.

['02 ws6]

It's a nice thought. One i held onto for a while. But, the best N/a setup will NOT work for FI. Cam, compression, and gearing will all HURT you when going to FI. If I were you and were not ready for FI, do headers. Because, they will help you no matter whether you go FI or NA.

Bottom line, FI will deliver the best street manners and most power/torque. At 4,000lbs, the G8 needs ALL the torque it can get. Besides, all roads lead to boost. It's inevitable.


Shocking someone with TT starting their name off is a FI guy.:nah:

Intense pressure on moving parts by forcing air into the motor isn't the most efficient way of going about hp improvement. Cam, head, swaps does not invalidate a motors reliability if installed right, tuned properly, and managed well, and can provide a comparable amount of hp increase.

Cam swaps using a blower style cam can both improve NAs performance as well as FI setups. Many people have swapped in a blower cam, tuned right, and ran that until they aquired their choice of FI. To say FI has the most street manners , have you ever heard of a problem called turbo lag? While the Maggie's don't have this particular problem, to say that a nicely tuned NA setup w/ comparable top end power to that of the Maggie is less streetable, is absurd.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

We need Dan from Livernois to chime in here as him and I had an in depth discussion of the pros and cons of turbo vs. blower. Dan is a turbo lover, but really feels the Maggie is the best bang and reliability over all for our cars.
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[johnh]

feels the Maggie is the best bang and reliability over all for our cars.

Even over a cam?

Here's the thing, properly done I don't think a blower is any less reliable, now if you push too much boost, or run too lean sure. But those are easily solved with a good tune and supporting mods.

The harder part is $/hp. I'd love to have a Maggie over a cam, but the blower is what 2-3 times more expensive to get to similar power levels?

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Even over a cam?

Here's the thing, properly done I don't think a blower is any less reliable, now if you push too much boost, or run too lean sure. But those are easily solved with a good tune and supporting mods.

The harder part is $/hp. I'd love to have a Maggie over a cam, but the blower is what 2-3 times more expensive to get to similar power levels?

Well, we were having this discussion post-cam in my case, but the Maggie would give a bigger advantage in the TQ dept over the cammed motor. I would think after getting the heads done and doing the Maggie, close to 600RWHP should be easily obtained.....Biggest fear for me is busting the 11.49 bubble....I want to do some bracket racing this year, but I don't want to have to cage the car, or play the "lift" game.
So I will strip it the first two weeks in Apr. then put it in the shop for the heads and see where its at after that. Then the final Maggie decision will be made.

[jbradsh1]

This post is to generate discussion and because I want to know how it can be done. While I'm not going to post a budget cap, the idea is to list the mods that can achieve this without compromising the driveability (sic) of the car as a DD . Please list the mods in priority that can get the GT rated at 415 rear wheel HP.

Do what's in my sig: I'm off by about 1 rwhp though.

[Darkside]

Well, we were having this discussion post-cam in my case, but the Maggie would give a bigger advantage in the TQ dept over the cammed motor. I would think after getting the heads done and doing the Maggie, close to 600RWHP should be easily obtained.....Biggest fear for me is busting the 11.49 bubble....I want to do some bracket racing this year, but I don't want to have to cage the car, or play the "lift" game.
So I will strip it the first two weeks in Apr. then put it in the shop for the heads and see where its at after that. Then the final Maggie decision will be made.

If you put a Maggie on and get traction, you'll definately be lower than mid 11's. The key will be getting traction with that kind of power. Of course you would probably be the guinea pig of breaking parts along the way (tranny, rear end, driveline??)

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Driveline is probably the weakest link.
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[The Commodore]

What seems to be the limit for the 6L80Es? Not what GM lists it at, what people are running on it safely. Aussies chime in?

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I think I read they were rated for 600HP but that could be wrong.
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