DOD Cam difference vs DOD delete Cam??

[GRRR8GT]

Howdy Folks,
Got sore eyes from reading hundreds and hundreds of posts but still really don't have the answer. What I got is a couple boxes of parts that I planned on putting on the car years ago but life happened and things got delayed big time. I am rethinking my plan. Maybe. First box contains a New Era (COMP) Cam, PAC valve springs, Manley pushrods, cam seal and new dampener. Same CAM as on the forum list. Intake 224, Exhaust 232, 113 lobe sep. Gross lift int. .570 and exh. .575 .Thank You. Was going to keep DOD at the time. Picked up from a fellow in Florida who totalled his car before he got it on.
Second box has a Harrop TVS 1900 complete with CAI. This was shipped from Harrop through OTTP. These two boxes were the plan at the time. I did not mind DOD at the time. Then the delay happened and during this I put Solo HFC's and a mach balanced with resonators on the car. Trying to keep it relatively quiet. Did not notice DOD active before the exhaust but now oh ya you notice it. Hardly ever active anyway cause of a bad right knee (less painful to keep it straight ).
I am reading that the cams are different? I emailed New Era and they said go ahead and delete DOD and use the Cam. Will work fine. I don't know squat whether they are different or not. Do you? I know having listened to a couple clips with this cam that its more than enough cam for me. Car will only see the track a couple times. I know a few are still running DOD and the fellow I spoke to at Moretto Motorsports (formerly Cambell Automotive) in Edmonton says to keep it DOD. I'm leaning toward DOD delete with this cam but what do I know! Last time I was inside a GM engine Nixon was president. Also the car is not my daily driver, I've got a rice bucket for that. And thanks for any time that you spend reading this and any thoughts you might have. Jack

[thebeast]

You cannot use that cam as a dod cam. You must remove the dod hardware from the engine to run that cam. Keeping dod with a blower is risky as the parts under Rick coditions have failed and some have needed new motors.

With your blower on top, good luck tryin to get warranty to cover the damage they will not.

So before you regret it, remove dod, install proper cam and hardware, bolt on that blower, and enjoy.

Also, I didn't see anything about injectors and a fuel system, don't forget...

[tchr49]

While you're at it, you might want to spec out a cam that will optimize the blower also.
Someone will pick up the one you have.

[GRRR8GT]

That cam was sold as a high lift DOD cam. I kind of thought it might be pushing the envelope anyway. I am hearing that you would not use it as a delete DOD cam either? I don't mind dumping the DOD hardware but would like to use the cam if possible.The blower is fully assembled with 47lb injectors in place. I was thinking that I would not quite run out of fuel with them..... Shift change so I'm outa here til later.

[G8-4-Speed]

knock on wood........, all my DoD cams are still doing good!

[-Ray-]

That cam was sold as a high lift DOD cam. I kind of thought it might be pushing the envelope anyway. I am hearing that you would not use it as a delete DOD cam either? I don't mind dumping the DOD hardware but would like to use the cam if possible.The blower is fully assembled with 47lb injectors in place. I was thinking that I would not quite run out of fuel with them..... Shift change so I'm outa here til later.

Get clear with Mike at New Era if the cam you have IS a DOD cam. If it IS a DOD cam, you can still use it. Limit the RPM range to stay below 6200. Rick can confirm this, but high RPM's are the DOD hardware killer.

[G8-4-Speed]

That cam will work with DoD. "Use at your own risk" but with good beehive springs it should be fine. I would run it......If the cam is +1 to +2 it should go 400+ with ported head/intake.

[GRRR8GT]

Hi Guys and Gals, Been offline for a couple days.

G8 Ray, I did email New Era a while back and I think it was Mike that said I could use the cam with DOD intact or with the DOD hardware deleted. I can't find the email but it was a year or so ago. Not being an engine guy to me that means the cams are ground the same and that the only difference is the DOD hardware. That's really what I was asking. I also emailed Comp Cams today to get their opinion.

G8-4-Speed, Rick I think yours was one of the clips I listened too on YouTube. Sounded great. I appreciate your opinion and was going to keep the DOD intact when I planned this upgrade a couple years back. My issue is that the DOD hardware is of little use to me as it is rarely active anyway. When it does cut in and out there is some driveline shock and the drivability is not as good. And it sounds terrible. To leave it in and tune it out does not make sense to me either. It does work as designed though and gets another 2-3 mpg highway. That driveline shock is why the 2014 vette has gone back to a steel driveshaft.

[-Ray-]

If you don't need DOD active get another cam. IMO

[GRRR8GT]

Hi ,

Are you saying use another cam because there are better suited cams or because your thinking it physically will not work with the DOD hardware stripped off? No answer from Comp Cams yet but I will let you know what they say. And thanks for the opinion because thats why I posted the question.

[It's A G8!]

So what your wanting to know is if the cam you have can be used after deleting the DOD hardware?

[-Ray-]

Things needed for a cam swap.
http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=462

[GRRR8GT]

Hi Its A G8! ...Exactly what I want to know. I have no doubt it will work with DOD but if I delete all the DOD hardware what issue will I run into with this cam if any. Maybe reselling it is the best option? I am going to touch base with New Era again also because I did " lose " that email they sent me.

Thanks for that link G8 Ray because I will need to order most of that stuff to have it ready for spring. Has anyone had any experience with the GM racing lifters. There any benefit to these?

[GRRR8GT]

Just wanted to update what I found out about "DOD" cams from Comp Cams and New Era. I got the answers a couple weeks ago so I'm finally posting them. I told them what cam package I have and told them at the time I was going to keep DOD but now have decided to delete DOD. I asked if " DOD cams are ground differently on 4 cylinders and are not usable without DOD hardware"

Mike at New Era replied:
" This information is incorrect, the DOD cams are not ground differently on 4 cylinders. The goal to designing a DOD friendly cam is to not exceed "X" amount of peak lift to retain the lifter in a certain area, having a "soft" lobe ramp, and achieve peak horsepower by approximately 6100 rpms because the DOD lifter will not last long shifting past about 6350 rpms repetitively. We believe our DOD high lift cam provides maximum horsepower while still retaining as much reliability and functionality as possible still utilizing the DOD. However, eliminating the DOD opens the door for other cams that are capable of producing more power. -Mike "

Ryan Hart from Comp replied:
"That would be fine. You just need to remove those lifters and pieces associated with DOD"

Anyhow that's the answer and the cam can be used so now I am going to send off the specs to Pat. G. and get his opinion and a cam spec and decide what to do. Let you know. Later.

[Crazy Paul]

" This information is incorrect, the DOD cams are not ground differently on 4 cylinders. "
Depends if we're talking about "Factory" cams or "Aftermarket" cams.
GM Factory AFM cams are ground slightly differently on 4 cylinders.
GM Factory AFM cams also have a large oiling passage that doesn't exist in non-AFM cams.
Some guys who have tried to use Factory AFM cams in conjunction with 16 normal lifters have found they have no oil pressure. Changing out the Factory AFM cam (and nothing else) restored full oil pressure.

So IMO the answer hinges on how many of the "Factory" AFM cam features exist in the "Aftermarket" AFM cam.

Factory cams, AFM on the right (see the green arrow).

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/32-1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/31.jpg

[Crazy Paul]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/L76camspec_zps29cb5519.jpg

[GRRR8GT]

Well mate you are a wealth of information! And it would appear that the Comp. aftermarket cam is in fact identical to the cam you pictured on the right. It has the wide first journal and the grooved second journal with the oiler hole. So I would say my aftermarket cam is ground the same as factory. From what I can see from your numbers it looks like the lift is slightly greater on the AFM cylinders.... Is this to compensate for AFM lifter spring compression maybe? Thanks a bunch. I have sent off a request to Pat G. for a spec and his opinion on using the DOD cam but its looking like I have a cam kit for sale...Later!

[Crazy Paul]

Here's the answer I got March 2008 from some GMPP tech guy who used to be on ls1tech (I think it may have been Robin.L)


Here's the reply I got from GM Performance Parts when I asked about the HOLDEN L76 cam specs. I also asked if it was true that the grind was different between the de-activate cylinders and the normal cylinders.

Answer 1 = 200/208......0.472/0.479
Answer 2 = Yes



Re: Holden L76 Stock Cam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

AFM cylinders have slightly different grind ( a bit taller) to accomodate additional compliance of AFM parts --intent is lift event equivalence.



1.70 Exhaust Rocker Ratio
1.69 Intake Rocker Ratio

Lift:
@Cam @Valve
Exhaust: 0.282 0.479
Intake: 0.279 0.472

Cam Timing@0.004" Tappet Lift:
Open Close Adv. Duration
Exhaust: 71 BBDC 33 ATDC 284
Intake: 11 BTDC 91 ABDC 282


Cam Timing@0.050" Tappet Lift:
Open Close Duration
Exhaust: 40 BBDC 12 BTDC 208
Intake: 17 ATDC 37 ABDC 200
__________________
GM Performance Parts

[Crazy Paul]

If my opinion counts for anything, I say don't fuck around with a mix of AFM and non-AFM valvetrain components.
a) Don't use 16 normal lifters on an AFM cam.
b) Don't use an AFM valley plate with 16 normal lifters.

There's a few shops around who say it's OK to do so, there's reports coming back from car owners about low oil pressure and weird low rpm misfiring when they have tried to follow the shop advice.

[GRRR8GT]

So I was right, they are compensating for the bloody long springs in those lifters. I think your right about mixin AFM and non AFM. Like oil and water they'll mix for a while before long though they separate. Good advice!

[Crazy Paul]

So I was right, they are compensating for the bloody long springs in those lifters.
I got the impression it was to do with the mass difference between AFM and normal lifters.

[GRRR8GT]

I think mass would be in the equation also. I think we would need a mechanical engineer to explain the formula used to calculate "lift event equivalence" between lifters of different lengths and weights at 6000 rpm. I'm not touching that one. On another note- Hows the weather in Perth today? Bloody hot I imagine compared to the -15"C we have here this morning.....

[JoshHefnerX]

Ok, so wait a min.... You've had a supercharger and a cam sitting in the garage and they're not on the car!

[Crazy Paul]

I think we would need a mechanical engineer to explain the formula used to calculate "lift event equivalence" between lifters of different lengths and weights at 6000 rpm. I'm not touching that one.
I am one & I'm not touching it either.


On another note- Hows the weather in Perth today? Bloody hot I imagine compared to the -15"C we have here this morning..... Tuesday was a nice change, only 30C & about 7 drops of rain.

[GRRR8GT]

7 drops eh...but that 30'C would feel real nice today (-17'C this morning). The 40's are too much to take though.. "Power Engineer" or Stationary Engineer we used to be called. So I did write a couple mechanical papers for my ticket but that was soooo long ago. That math is giving me a head-ache just thinking about it.

Hey JoshHefnerX I hear you man. My wife says "why did you buy thing anyway..You know life happened man. We moved, new job, I built a new house and so we moved again, then another new job. You know I just had no time for the car. Put less than 50 miles on it last year. Didn't even renew the plate from last July til yesterday. And the cam kit I bought when I was still thinking about keeping DOD. Now that the pipes are on the 4cyl drone is sooo ugly that the DOD is going bye bye. That means I need a new cam kit so Pat G. is spec'ing one right now. I am going with the new custom lobe cams he has available. He says they use a high grade blank and there should be a little less valve train noise. So it all will be on this spring and I'll dyno and track it at Castrol this summer. Til later, Jack