Noisy valvetrain/lifter tips......

[G8-4-Speed]

For those who venture into changing there own cam, I have a few tips that can help avoid extra noise. These tips are assuming pushrod length is correct.....

Background: there have been several guys that complain about noisy valvetrain after cam swaps and even before. Some delete DoD think some of the clatter is DOD lifter specific. Noise comes from one thing, clearance at contact points. High lift cams have higher spring pressures so lifters "can" bleed down some each cycle that can give a little noise but oil does not compress so it has to bleed down. A little thicker oil can be a big help. 5W-40, 10w-40.

If it isn't an issue with the lifters bleeding down then you could be pulling air into the oil. Air in the oil will give more lifter noise since air will compress. I recommend always changing the red o-ring on the pickup tube and cleaning the tube and pump where the ring seals. Next, most pull the oil pump apart to remove it when changing over to the LS2 timing chain block or simply changing the chain. Before re-installing the oil pump front plate, notice where the pickup side of the pump is. There is a cavity in the lower passenger side of the pump. I clean the around the lower edge of the pump where the plate seals against and clean the plate. Then apply a very thin bead of premium sealer( I use Honda-bond) to the lower outer edge of the pump plate and re-assemble. There is no gasket or sealing ring to the pump plate so it can pull air into the oil which can cause excessive valvetrain noise depending on how square and well the plate seats against the pump housing. If the o-ring and plate are sealed properly, then you eliminate another possibility of noise. I have had several installs and the ones I have sealed the plate on have been the quietest. Troys is very quiet and uses a very common Comp LSL lobe with +.600 lift. I have heard this same lobe used in other LSA configurations and some have been noisy. Some have even swapped lifters chasing the noise to have the same noise after the swap....

I attached a picture of a new set of lifters. Some guys soak them but I prefer to check them and soak the rollers individually. If you have ever checked the rollers, half of them "stick" meaning they are tight/dry and don't roll very well. I mount them in the new retainers and fill the roller cups with oil and work the rollers around until they all roll freely without sticking. If they were to be installed before making sure they roll freely, it is possible to do scaring to the roller or cam on start-up since they are upside down and have no oil feed to the roller bearing. They will eventually get splash from the crank and what bleeds-thru the lifter bores but damaged cam happen quickly that can not be reversed.

Hope this helps...

[Chewy]

It helps me thanks!

I'm trying to glean as much info as possible here before deciding which way to take my car.

Chris

[Kermit]

Thanks Rick for that tid bit of information. Any chance you could take a pic the next time you do that to show exactly what your talking about.
I too want to learn as much as I can before eventually doing my own CAM swap. :)

[DavesG8GT]

Very good write up Rick. Thanks for doing that. FYI my valve train noise did go down a good bit with the new cam and longer pushrods (from 7.375" to 7.40"). I think I personally was on the edge of having too short of pushrods before (1.25 or so bolt turns between zero lash and torqued). Now I am more around 1.65 turns. Very quiet now.
Then again I did go to the quiet LXL exhaust lobes too. I will do your sealer trick if I do another g8 cam swap.

[todds87ss]

Rick, can I add my lifter filll method here?
Some "soak" lifters in oil bath to fill them prior to install. I was surprised to find a lot of air still in the lifter after overnight soak. This air will cause some startup tick, which does usually go away after a while. If you want to avoid this, get a brake bleeder hand pump, place the lifters in the oil bath, and suck the air from the top orifice (hole) in the lifter. You will be surprised how much air you pull out.

[G8-4-Speed]

Sure add it. To me, getting oil in the roller bearings is the most important parts of soaking. The lifters fill with oil quick but the rollers only get oil from crank case splash. The center of the roller cam be dry for to long and cause damage if not pre-oiled.

[shane]

i always prefer to run a 5w40. Used it in the G8 and now C6.

Good stuff Rick.

[djerickd]

Thanks again Rick!

[Gtzg8]

After having my dod stuff taken out and replaced with a new pat g spec'd cam,ls7 lifters,hardened pushrods, everything ran fine for several thousand miles but then while normal driving conditions i started to get another ticking sound. I quickly thought it can be the lifters again. Can anyone suggest what can be the ticking sound? Possibly bad ls7 lifters?

[GRRRR8]

I have been using 5/40 German spec oil for years.

[I12XLR8]

I'm going to try a 5W40 on my next change and see if that helps the valvetrain noise I've got. Thanks for the thread, Rick!

[G8-4-Speed]

Another way to prime the lifters after soaking the rolllers is to leave all the spark plugs out, pull the fuel pump fuse, unplug the two coil pack harnes plugs and crank it until you read oil pressure on a scanner.(need a scanner to do it this way) Takes about 5 long cranks. I usually get 40 psi cranking. Then I put evenything back together and fire it right up with no noise.


No guarantees, you can dump the dod, change the cam, and still lose a cam or lifter....

[Gtzg8]

Another way to prime the lifters after soaking the rolllers is to leave all the spark plugs out, pull the fuel pump fuse, unplug the two coil pack harnes plugs and crank it until you read oil pressure on a scanner.(need a scanner to do it this way) Takes about 5 long cranks. I usually get 40 psi cranking. Then I put evenything back together and fire it right up with no noise.


No guarantees, you can dump the dod, change the cam, and still lose a cam or lifter....

Ill definitely give that a try, is thier like other home remedies to do to get the noise down and or get the lifters to not tick?
Just trying to do everything i can without having to possibly change out lifters for the 2nd time. Thanks

[G8-4-Speed]

Remove the rockers and reinstall them. This will cycle the plunger and might fix it IF it is a plunger issue. If it is a Cam or roller issue, then you're out of luck.

[Gtzg8]

Alright thanks for the tips. Ill be trying to find out the problem soon. Hopefully it aint nothing major.

[I12XLR8]

I like the mix of star-power and rooks on this thread so I think it's the perfect time to post my noisy valve train video! I was finally able to get a mic under the hood in a couple of driving situations and was unpleasantly surprised by the results. No doubt there is valve train noise in the cabin that I hear when the radio and heater are off but I wasn't expecting this much under the hood.

To those with noisy valve trains and/or experienced ears, does this sound 'normal'? It certainly seems to perform fine.

http://youtu.be/61qEkR7ulQE

A quick tip on how to embed the video would be helpful as well ;-)

Edit: I should also mention that the mic was placed under the hood, wire tied to the remote battery terminal with a tiny little foam cap on the end.

[I12XLR8]

I don't have a new video yet but I just drained out the SYNTEC 5W30 I had in the car and put in MOTUL 5W40. I think it's a little better but it's hard to tell. I hope to get the mic under the hood again and see how it sounds.

[G8-4-Speed]

That is noisy. I'm sure it is valvetrain but the mic almost makes it sound like an exhaust leak. what cam and pushrods are in it?

[I12XLR8]

I brought it in to the shop today and asked a few guys what they thought the noise was. Each one thought that it was an exhaust leak! I guess I was so focused on the valve train that I was hearing what I wanted to hear. The valve train is still loud but I'm hunting for the leak...problem is that I can't find it. It's definitely the drivers side and is not under the car so the header/head surface is my only option. I just don't see it. Maybe I should dump something like Seafoam into the car and see where it smokes from.

My real concern is that something is getting ready to grenade inside of the motor...it just runs so strong that it doesn't FEEL like there is anything wrong. Once I get the Magnaflows on I won't hear it anymore ;-)

Rick, I have the VMS 1.5 cam and DOD delete package which I believe came with 7.40" rods although their site is down and I can't confirm this. I know that it said "Custom Push Rods" on the site but I don't have my invoice with me to confirm what brand or size they used.

[I12XLR8]

I loosened off the drivers manifold then retorqued it. Hopefully it sounds better this morning in the way to work.

[G8-4-Speed]

7.400" is generally short unless the heads are milled.

Added info and a picture the the first post......

[I12XLR8]

7.400" is generally short unless the heads are milled.

Added info and a picture the the first post......

Heads are not milled (not until you get your hands on them!) and I just confirmed with VMS that 7.400" is the length they send. Should I pull the rockers and change them out? What size/brand should I go with? Would these rods be the reason why the valvetrain got louder? Seems odd that they would use these rods if they are too short...

I've got the LS3 lifters if that makes any difference.

If you have a suggestion for replacements I'll order them up right away as I have an order waiting for me at the border right now that I could add it to.

[I12XLR8]

Heads are not milled (not until you get your hands on them!) and I just confirmed with VMS that 7.400" is the length they send. Should I pull the rockers and change them out? What size/brand should I go with? Would these rods be the reason why the valvetrain got louder? Seems odd that they would use these rods if they are too short...

I've got the LS3 lifters if that makes any difference.

If you have a suggestion for replacements I'll order them up right away as I have an order waiting for me at the border right now that I could add it to.

Rick, any thoughts on this? I have a second car now (or will this coming week) so would like to get these rods out before they cause any damage...if they will. I want to make sure my engine is 100% before my first event in May. Last thing I need is something going wrong at the track ;-(

[G8-4-Speed]

Rick, any thoughts on this? I have a second car now (or will this coming week) so would like to get these rods out before they cause any damage...if they will. I want to make sure my engine is 100% before my first event in May. Last thing I need is something going wrong at the track ;-(


Sorry about dragging my feet....They will work but they are on the short side for pre-load.

[norm8332]

Rick, I also have the 7.400 push rods with my ls9 cam and it sounds similar to the above video. But the heads supposedly had a valve job...you think 7.425s would work for me? And how would I tell if their too long after installed? Would there be detectable symptoms? The engine noise is the last thing holding back "perfection" for me.

Thanks,
Norm

[Tommy G]

Just got done replacing the 7.400 sent to me by VMS. I put in new 7.425" Comp cams part # 7796-16. Valve train is much quieter now! Thanks for the info in this thread.

How long before I should do an oil change? I used a small amount of assembly lube on the contact points before reassembling, and I assume there is a small amount of break in time. Is it ok to take it to higher RPMs right away?

[G8-4-Speed]

If you have good oil in it, just change it 3-5k. No break-in needed for roller cams. Drive it like you stole it! Sometimes you can get away with 7.400" pushrod with cam installs, but normally 7.425-7.450 will be in the correct preload window.

[I12XLR8]

I am definitely doing this over the winter. I want to hear my exhaust when I pull up along a wall or big truck, not my valve train ;-(

[Tommy G]

If you have good oil in it, just change it 3-5k. No break-in needed for roller cams. Drive it like you stole it! Sometimes you can get away with 7.400" pushrod with cam installs, but normally 7.425-7.450 will be in the correct preload window.

Thanks. I just assumed that it would take a little bit before the pushrods would "marry" with the rocker. I think that I'm going to change the oil to 5-40 anyways. The oil in there is almost a year old, but less than 500 miles on it.

Not sure if it has been completely covered in this thread. But when I restarted after the installation, I held the pedal to the floor and did 5 or 6 long cranks. Since mine is an '08 with triple gauges, I was able to see over 40 PSI of oil pressure after releasing the key from the start position. The process was- hold pedal to floor, key to start for 6 or 8 seconds (the PCM will not give fuel,so it won't start), release key to run, observe oil pressure until it bleeds down, repeat at least 5 times. When done, start the car normally. Using this process I got ZERO rattle at startup.