Cam swap

[GRRRR8]

How many of you are going to change the cam?

['02 ws6]

As much as I would love to, I already have my cammed car, so for warranty reasons, wife reasons, and personal labor reasons, no internal work will be done on mine.....but FI isnt out of the question! lol

[wreckwriter]

I wll cam mine. Just waiting to see what options arise in the near future. still trying to decide about ditching DOD.

[GRRRR8]

Seeing your TA I knew "something" was going to increase power output!

[-Ray-]

I put I have not decided. Since the DOD cam can be done without head removal, and my G8 will be down for the winter, it's possible. Along with port and polish on the TB and intake.

[GRRRR8]

If you get that lift I bet a lot of things are going to be possible this winter!

[-Ray-]

I prefer photo bucket. Since it resizes and give me html if I want clickable thumbnails.

['02 ws6]

Seeing your TA I knew "something" was going to increase power output! True true! But believe it or not the wife is the one who wants to do it! She won the local races we have in the womens class and since she has had the itch to be faster! But honestly bolt on are probably all we will do.

[GRRRR8]

My wife has the bug too! She has never been down the track and when I go again she will make some passes.

['02 ws6]

Good idea. just put her up against a mustang gt and Following her victory you will enjoy the benefits of a gear head wife! Thats what happened to me. lol

[GRRRR8]

She loves to pick on Chargers! She loves that 0-45 blast and then she turns into a grandma!

['02 ws6]

Well a nice pass at 105 mph should clear out any "grandma-ness"

[GRRRR8]

Yeah, I dont think she will hit the 107.9 that I did, but it will be the fastest she has ever driven.

[Mike P]

I'll most likely go the baby cam route, retaining DOD, I don't want much lope sound, because its a daily driver.

New Era has a nice option...........

['02 ws6]

I'll most likely go the baby cam route, retaining DOD, I don't want much lope sound, because its a daily driver.

New Era has a nice option...........

You can still have lope and retain driveability. It's all in the tune!

[GRRRR8]

What cam is in the "bird"?

[wreckwriter]

Lope is sexy.

[GRRRR8]

I love the "little drummer boy"............as long as I dont hear it coming out of the bottom end! :oops:

['02 ws6]

What cam is in the "bird"?

It's a TSP comp X-ER Torquer 2 - 232/234 .595/.598 113+0 lsa

[JDP G8GT]

Could you guys explain to me what those numbers are when you describe cams to eachother, whenever someone asks about cams and somebody replies with numbers everyone gets all excited and I here thinking how I know absolutely squat about cars...

[-Ray-]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camshaft

Some general information. You can also check out the web site of Crane, and other well known camshaft makers.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

As of 4pm yesterday the cam was in! We're starting test and tune at 1pm today, and my Kooks mufflers will be there! Yee Ha! (Thanks Maryland Speed!)
:tigger:

[GRRRR8]

All my stuff should be here soon!

[wreckwriter]

As of 4pm yesterday the cam was in! We're starting test and tune at 1pm today, and my Kooks mufflers will be there! Yee Ha! (Thanks Maryland Speed!)
:tigger:

Very exciting! Keep us informed please!

How long did it take to put the cam in and how much of the front end had to come off? DOD cam, right?

[-Ray-]

I'm jealous!

[GRRRR8]

All you need is that lift Ray and this winter getter done!

[-Ray-]

I know, but I think the port and polish on the intake and TB is all I'm going to be able to swing. After all, I need to get a furnace in that bay to keep her warm this winter.

[dhall0014]

I wish i had the funds and knowledge that most of you all have. Im still trying to figure out how to get my car in the garage from the stealership. After that happens a cam would be nice but it would be several years down the road after done with school and making the money to afford it.

[GRRRR8]

We were all just starting out once. Take your time and appreciate the fact that you are able to own one and everything else will happen when it is supposed to.

[dhall0014]

Yeah i just wish i could off load one of my bikes and quads a little faster so i can go ahead and get this thing in my driveway. the wait is killing me. Until then alls i have is the forum to learn as much as i can before the purchase.

[Panther 2]

dhall0014 ,just hang in there ,there is going to be a ton of good used parts showing up on this forum as people move up in their performance levels.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Very exciting! Keep us informed please!

How long did it take to put the cam in and how much of the front end had to come off? DOD cam, right?

He was using Mike's second NON-DoD cam.


There should have been an update.

;)

[GRRRR8]

Yeah i just wish i could off load one of my bikes and quads a little faster so i can go ahead and get this thing in my driveway. the wait is killing me. Until then alls i have is the forum to learn as much as i can before the purchase.

Nothing wrong with learning!

[MANOFSTEEL69]

We'll be continuing tune in the morning. It was 97 and very stuffy in the shop by the time street tuning was done. I will post pics and videos after I get home and sort through everything. I will tell you this, the car is unbelievable to drive now.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Well, it was still about 86 this morning and 31% humidity but we pulled a 403.89 HP and 381.44 Torque! This was not an aggressive tune either. We have more we can get out of Tigger, but Mike wanted to err on the side of caution with my wife and I having a 378 mile trip ahead of us in 90+ heat. The car ran great all the way home with only a slight rise in temp over the ride out, but it was alot hotter on the way home. I also lost 4 mpg, but was running 72-74 mph with the A/C on as opposed to 68 and no air on the way out...so it's probably a wash! I'll reserve my comments on the Kooks mufflers untill i talk with them first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNsh1dyRBmY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwk-kr8Bj-g

[GRRRR8]

Sounds good Jay!

[wreckwriter]

I'll reserve my comments on the Kooks mufflers untill i talk with them first.

This worries me.....

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I would just prefer not to comment till I can see if they can resolve the issues I have. Here's a clip and I'll do more tomorrow at different speeds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwk-kr8Bj-g

[wreckwriter]

understood. Thanks Jay

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Here's the clip I meant to post lol! Tired man, it's been a long weekend lol!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVNmI55Eb0g

[done12many2]

Here's the clip I meant to post lol! Tired man, it's been a long weekend lol!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVNmI55Eb0g

Maybe the Logitech 10" sub in my computer’s surround setup is exaggerating things a bit, but I definitely hear why you want to talk to Kooks.

Did you ever get this resolved?

Nevermind....i just looked at your signature!

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Might as well revive this thread. I do not plan to do a cam in my personal G8 GT. Instead I will be TT'ing it next year springtime. I already have a race vehicle so I am looking for a true streeter vehicle that has great power and also gets respectable gas mileage when I am out of the go-pedal too.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Ok, well see if this is respectable enough for you....Because I doubt any 400HP car out there can boast this.......;)
http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r424/MANOFSTEEL69/10-31-08_2041-1.jpg

[GRRRR8]

Thats great Jay. That is about what I am figuring also.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Ok, well see if this is respectable enough for you....Because I doubt any 400HP car out there can boast this.......;)
http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r424/MANOFSTEEL69/10-31-08_2041-1.jpg



That is TERRIBLE!!!











Only kidding. That is pretty damn good gas mileage after all the N/A stuff you have done. I would have expected worse. What is your city MPG?

[MANOFSTEEL69]

About 16-18. I lost 4MPG overall after the cam....A fair trade off for 50+ HP.

[The Commodore]

so im getting less MPG with a stock car and 1800 miles:huh:

[MANOFSTEEL69]

You should do better with a cold air intake and a tune....Just food for thought.

[Mike P]

Yep, Jay & Charlie I totally agree. When I average speeds between 55 - 62mph I can see mpg in the 24 - 29 range. :)



I can't wait to get cammed......

...

[jbradsh1]

I can't wait to get cammed......

...[/QUOTE]

And, a one more time!!! I have to wait too ... it's killin' me just listening to your posts so I only imagine what it's doing to you!

[99-LS1-SS]

Wait....Is Mike getting a cam? When did this come about?












:)

[Mike P]

jbradsh1 & 99-LS1-SS: You guys are soooooooooooooo funny.... :)




...

[Crazy Paul]

http://avatars.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.ls1tech.com/get/forums/image.php?u=58967&dateline=1162049548
Robin L
LS1Tech Sponsor

"I have a GTO based LS2 on the dyno right now. It's a 24x engine.
I installed a set of LS3 heads and a Lunati 212/218 113 cam.

It's a very mild cam

So far I have only used a 4 barrel intake. I have the L76 bolted up now and should be making pulls this weekend.

The Carb Manifold and a set of 1 3/4" F Body Hooker Headers made a peak of 530 horsepower.

As mild as that cam s I don't think that I will lose much from the L76 intake. It should move the peak horsepower down a bit in the RPM range.

I was suprised that it made that much power. So suprised that I am putting my LS3 back on the dyno to figure out why it was only 15 horsepower more with more compression, cam and cubic inches.

Robin "

[GeorgeInNePa]

The "Hot cam" is 218/228 .525/.525, hmmmm.

Looks like Charlie might be right...

[MANOFSTEEL69]

The "Hot cam" is 218/228 .525/.525, hmmmm.

Looks like Charlie might be right...

Shhh....Never tell Charlie he's right. Then his head swells and we can't get him in and out of the forums.

[GRRRR8]

Shhh....Never tell Charlie he's right. Then his head swells and we can't get him in and out of the forums.

I just barely got my head in here to comment......LMAO! You are on a roll today Jay! From 6:30am to 10pm. Tomorrow is a new day! :devil:

[jbradsh1]

Does anyone know if there is a cam which is between the stock LS3 cam and the Livernois stage 1 cam? The reason I'm asking is that, along with a valve job, the stage 1 will evidently give you over 520 crank hp which is a bit more than I want for a daily driver. I want around 470 crank hp. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Then don't do anything to the heads.

[Slizzo]

As much as I would love one, this is a daily driver, and I don't want to invest that much time and effort into the car.



FI is the most I will do, still a little undecided if I want the instant power/torque of a positive displacement SC or the HOB style twin turbos.



I'm probably leaning towards a roots type blower, I'm used to that type of power delivery.

[Darkside]

I'm leaning towards the yet to be released Stage III from Vector. As long as it has some street manners, otherwise I'll go Stage II.

[GRRRR8]

I'm leaning towards the yet to be released Stage III from Vector. As long as it has some street manners, otherwise I'll go Stage II.

We will know soon........:woohoo:

[Crazy Paul]

Does anyone know if there is a cam which is between the stock LS3 cam and the Livernois stage 1 cam? The reason I'm asking is that, along with a valve job, the stage 1 will evidently give you over 520 crank hp which is a bit more than I want for a daily driver. I want around 470 crank hp. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Stock LS3 Cam 204/211 .551/.525 117ish LSA


Comp 212/218 .558 /.563 115° LSA
Comp 216 220 .525/.532 114° LSA
GM LS3 Hotcam 219/228 .525/.525 112 LSA
Comp 220/224 .530/.534 112° LSA
Comp 224/228 .534/.537 112°LSA


Livernois Stg1 224/230 .581/.591 114 LSA


http://www.compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/172-175.pdf

[99-LS1-SS]

Given the stock LS3 cam has .551/.525 lift. I wonder how the stock springs would hold up to the Comp 224/228 .534/.537 112°LSA? Isn't the lift the factor that is the hardest on the springs? Or, is it the ramp angle too? I can't image the duration bothering the springs.
IF this cam didn't kill the springs what type of gains do you think it would produce over the stock cam?
Thanks.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Why the reverse split on the LS3 cam?

[Crazy Paul]

Why the reverse split on the LS3 cam? It's not a reverse split. It still has more dur on exh than int, just has a lower lift on exh which defies logic a tad.

[Crazy Paul]

Given the stock LS3 cam has .551/.525 lift. I wonder how the stock springs would hold up to the Comp 224/228 .534/.537 112°LSA? Isn't the lift the factor that is the hardest on the springs? Or, is it the ramp angle too? I can't image the duration bothering the springs.
IF this cam didn't kill the springs what type of gains do you think it would produce over the stock cam?
Thanks.

I'd think the Comp would be easier on springs than the stock LS3 cam. It has more dur and less lift which should mean valve acceleration is lower, tho yeah that does depend on the ramp rates.
The valve weight, lift, ramp rates all figure into how hard the spring has to work.
Stock LS3 springs.
1.800" installed height @ 90lbs
1.250 @ 295lbs
Max lift .570

Stock L76/L92 springs. <--- G8-GT
1.800" installed height @ 90lbs
1.300 @ 264lbs
Max lift .520

I don't really know how that cam would perform...haven't seen any results.

[99-LS1-SS]

My guess for the cam upgrade would be around 20 rwhp. Just my guess though.

[jbradsh1]

Stock LS3 Cam 204/211 .551/.525 117ish LSA


Comp 212/218 .558 /.563 115° LSA
Comp 216 220 .525/.532 114° LSA
GM LS3 Hotcam 219/228 .525/.525 112 LSA
Comp 220/224 .530/.534 112° LSA
Comp 224/228 .534/.537 112°LSA


Livernois Stg1 224/230 .581/.591 114 LSA


http://www.compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/172-175.pdf

Thanks. Here are a few others just for talking about: But my preference would be the following (taking into account the favorable duration & lift splits and also the LSA). Probably choose #1.

1- Comp 212/218 .558 /.563 115° LSA or the
2- Comp 216 220 .525/.532 114° LSA

MY02 LS6 5.7 ---->204/218......0.551"/0.547"

MY05 LS2 6.0 ---->204/211......0.525"/0.525"

MY06 LS7 7.0 ---->210/230......0.593"/0.589"

[Crazy Paul]

Here's a list I found at ls1gto.com
Note: A lot of the bigger cams shown here require flycutting of the pistons.
Some of these guys will have milled heads to bump the comp from 10.4 to 10.9 also.

Dyno Numbers of L92/L76 and LS3 Heads/Intake GTO's with stock displacement.
These cars are all 364 CID, and dyno numbers should be SAE to keep with the standard.


http://g.imagehost.org/0687/L92head-6_0_01.jpg


Bigger is not always better. : )

[jbradsh1]

Question: how does LSA affect the h.p. and what is it actually? Thanks in advance.

[99-LS1-SS]

LSA means Lobe Separation Angle.

Here is a decent article on it.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0606em_camshaft_specs/lobe_seperation_angle.html

[Crazy Paul]

What is it ?
http://www.wallaceracing.com/cambasics.htm

LSA effects ?
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/FAQ/LSAproperties.asp

[99-LS1-SS]

LSA effects ?
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/FAQ/LSAproperties.asp

I have a question for blower applications specifically. Since a higher LSA reduces "Reduce Maximum Cylinder Pressure" would a high LSA cam be better suited for a forced induction application?

[Crazy Paul]

I have a question for blower applications specifically. Since a higher LSA reduces "Reduce Maximum Cylinder Pressure" would a high LSA cam be better suited for a forced induction application?

The cams that seem to work best with the L92 style heads are much like blower cams. They both tend to have healthy + splits favouring the exhaust.
But yes, most blower cams will have a higher LSA than for the same N/A engine.

See 3)
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/FAQ/CamandValveQuestions.asp

[jbradsh1]

Thanks very much for the valuable hatting! So, last questions for the day. What is your opinion on the Comp Cams: 212/218...0.558"/ 0.563 115 LSA compared to the following cams (assume LTs, cai, tune, no other mods): I'm really going to stretch this question and also ask for estimated rwhp gain for each and please give the reasons for your preference. I think the more we go over the possibilities, the more people will get involved and be able to make a better decision when or if they decide to cam their car. Thanks.

224/230.....0.581/0.590 114 LSA
216/220…….0.525/0.532 114 LSA
212/218…….0.522/0.529 114 LSA

[Crazy Paul]

I want around 470 crank hp. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

We saw above a 6.0 block with stock LS2 cam, with L92 heads milled to give a 10.9 CR, plus ported intake.M6 Trans. It put down 415/407 at the rear wheels.
Using the generally accepted loss of 17% for manual trans........thats 485 at the crank.
Head milling on the L92's on a 6.0 have been shown to be worth about 10 at the crank.
People say the ported LS3 intake is worth 15.

So with the L76, putting in a stock LS2 cam (dont mill the heads) or (dont port the intake) should put you right around 470 at the crank.


Another way to come to the same conclusion would be to look at a stock LS2 6.0 engine, with the stock LS2 cam.
400 crank hp.......tune and basic intake+ exhaust mods will get you to 440 crank hp no problem.
Now do a head swap, 243's off and L92's on.
And an intake swap, LS2 off and LS3 on.
You've now got a 6.0 L76 with no DOD and an LS2 cam.
(Retune and hello 470 @ crank).

Seen here, rear wheel HP/TQ
Stock LS2 v LS2 (with LS2 cam) + L92 heads and L76 intake.
http://www.picsorban.com/upload/dyno_results_l92.jpg

[Crazy Paul]

Thanks very much for the valuable hatting! So, last questions for the day. What is your opinion on the Comp Cams: 212/218...0.558"/ 0.563 115 LSA compared to the following cams (assume LTs, cai, tune, no other mods): I'm really going to stretch this question and also ask for estimated rwhp gain for each and please give the reasons for your preference. I think the more we go over the possibilities, the more people will get involved and be able to make a better decision when or if they decide to cam their car. Thanks.

224/230.....0.581/0.590 114 LSA
216/220…….0.525/0.532 114 LSA
212/218…….0.522/0.529 114 LSA

OK I can help a little, but not exactly what you're chasing.
The 224/230.....0.581/0.590 114 LSA has been shown to put down about 440rwhp.....or at the crank est. and dyno sim 530 crank hp.

Robin L retested his 6.0 with L92 heads with the L76 intake and
Lunati 212/218 ( I assume it was the 60510, .531/.531 113 LSA)
515 measured crank hp, 480 measured crank tq

You could probably assume the 216/220 would fall somewhere between those 2.

[Mike P]

Thanks very much for the valuable hatting! So, last questions for the day. What is your opinion on the Comp Cams: 212/218...0.558"/ 0.563 115 LSA compared to the following cams (assume LTs, cai, tune, no other mods): I'm really going to stretch this question and also ask for estimated rwhp gain for each and please give the reasons for your preference. I think the more we go over the possibilities, the more people will get involved and be able to make a better decision when or if they decide to cam their car. Thanks.

224/230.....0.581/0.590 114 LSA
216/220…….0.525/0.532 114 LSA
212/218…….0.522/0.529 114 LSA


Yea, I think my choice would be the 224/230 cam & look to make about 440 rwhp, that would be some mean crank hp.


...

[Mike P]

Here's a list I found at ls1gto.com
Note: A lot of the bigger cams shown here require flycutting of the pistons.
Some of these guys will have milled heads to bump the comp from 10.4 to 10.9 also.

Dyno Numbers of L92/L76 and LS3 Heads/Intake GTO's with stock displacement.
These cars are all 364 CID, and dyno numbers should be SAE to keep with the standard.



http://picsorban.com/upload/l92head-6.0_01.jpg


Bigger is not always better. : )


This is a sweet chart. Great information for cams.....



...

[Crazy Paul]

Yea, I think my choice would be the 224/230 cam & look to make about 440 rwhp, that would be some mean crank hp.
...

Crank HP
DynoSim
L92 Heads

http://picsorban.com/upload/224_230-10.4v10.9_02-600-co.jpg

[G8GT721]

with a cam swap is there any extra preventative that needs to be done like replace the lifters or anything else after X mileage?

[Crazy Paul]

with a cam swap is there any extra preventative that needs to be done like replace the lifters or anything else after X mileage?

Not lifters.
Valve springs can become a consumable item, need to be checked at X interval, replaced at Y. Depending on cam choice/spring choice and a range of other factors.

[UGotSmkd]

I thought new valve springs were a given when upgrading the cam? As far as springs, what is your opinion on beehive springs? I am a noob with internal engine mods.

[Crazy Paul]

I thought new valve springs were a given when upgrading the cam? As far as springs, what is your opinion on beehive springs? I am a noob with internal engine mods.

Yes new springs with cam upgrade for sure.
Then
Regular checks on springs and replace as per 2 posts up.

Andy pointed out the other day, the large and heavy stock L92 intake valve
used in the L76 introduces a demand for better than most single coil springs, when the cam is upgraded.
Depends how aggresive the new cam is, but a good dual spring is a safer option.

[jbradsh1]

Yes new springs with cam upgrade for sure.
Then
Regular checks on springs and replace as per 2 posts up.

Andy pointed out the other day, the large and heavy stock L92 intake valve
used in the L76 introduces a demand for better than most single coil springs, when the cam is upgraded.
Depends how aggresive the new cam is, but a good dual spring is a safer option.

Thanks for the really wonderful information. Your attention to these cam questions is very appreciated. The only thing we didn't discuss in this thread was rockers. Would you recommend an upgraded rocker set such as what is sometimes suggested with a street performance cam upgrade like we are talking about?

[jbradsh1]

We saw above a 6.0 block with stock LS2 cam, with L92 heads milled to give a 10.9 CR, plus ported intake.M6 Trans. It put down 415/407 at the rear wheels.
Using the generally accepted loss of 17% for manual trans........thats 485 at the crank.
Head milling on the L92's on a 6.0 have been shown to be worth about 10 at the crank.
People say the ported LS3 intake is worth 15.

So with the L76, putting in a stock LS2 cam (dont mill the heads) or (dont port the intake) should put you right around 470 at the crank.


Another way to come to the same conclusion would be to look at a stock LS2 6.0 engine, with the stock LS2 cam.
400 crank hp.......tune and basic intake+ exhaust mods will get you to 440 crank hp no problem.
Now do a head swap, 243's off and L92's on.
And an intake swap, LS2 off and LS3 on.
You've now got a 6.0 L76 with no DOD and an LS2 cam.
(Retune and hello 470 @ crank).

Seen here, rear wheel HP/TQ
Stock LS2 v LS2 (with LS2 cam) + L92 heads and L76 intake.
http://www.picsorban.com/upload/dyno_results_l92.jpg

Perfect. The LS2 cam is close to the hot cam but with less duration if I read it right. How's the width of the power band on the LS2?

[jbradsh1]

Yea, I think my choice would be the 224/230 cam & look to make about 440 rwhp, that would be some mean crank hp.


...

Hey Mike, what do ya think? Some pretty good information here to look over. I'm gettin' closer to "cam time"!

[jbradsh1]

So we end up with mild, medium, wild.

212/218…….0.522/0.529 114 LSA
212/218…….0.558/0.563 115 LSA
224/230.....0.581/0.590 114 LSA

[Crazy Paul]

The only thing we didn't discuss in this thread was rockers. Would you recommend an upgraded rocker set such as what is sometimes suggested with a street performance cam upgrade like we are talking about?

Nope, not really necessary to upgrade the rockers until you get more serious.
For people that do upgrade, you need 8x the normal LS type for the exhaust.
And 8x offset L92 type for the intake.

Stock offset L92 intake rocker.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/634_35.jpg

[Crazy Paul]

Perfect. The LS2 cam is close to the hot cam but with less duration if I read it right. How's the width of the power band on the LS2?

LS2 stock cam 204/211 525/.525 on 116 LSA = nice broad powerband
LS3 stock cam 204/211 551/.525 on 117.5 LSA = slightly wider broad powerband, touch more intake lift.

LS3 hot cam 219/228 525/.525 on 112 LSA = same lift as LS2, more duration on intake and exhaust, narrower powerband. Rougher idle.

[Mike P]

Hey Mike, what do ya think? Some pretty good information here to look over. I'm gettin' closer to "cam time"!


Yep, closer to cam time.

Maybe taking the best hp/tq numbers and 1/4 mile times would be the way to go, and making a custom grind cam shaft?


232/236 .590 .600 114 LSA



:)

...

[jbradsh1]

Yep, closer to cam time.

Maybe taking the best hp/tq numbers and 1/4 mile times would be the way to go, and making a custom grind cam shaft?


232/236 .590 .600 114 LSA



:)

...

That one looks like a Livernois stage 2 cam or something close. The one I'm favoring at the moment is the comp cams 212/218....0.558/0.563 115 LSA, which is more conservative...gives about 480 crank hp I believe. It is supposed to have a very broad power range with excellent mid range and good top end.

[G8GT721]

what would be a good small/mild cam to be used with a procharger and roughly the gains exppected?

[Mike P]

That one looks like a Livernois stage 2 cam or something close. The one I'm favoring at the moment is the comp cams 212/218....0.558/0.563 115 LSA, which is more conservative...gives about 480 crank hp I believe. It is supposed to have a very broad power range with excellent mid range and good top end.


That sounds like a good plan, but now that I saw Paul made 442 rwhp & 411 rwtq from Livernois Stage 1 cam, I would like to make that or just a little bit more, while still maintaining most of the manners at idle.

This would take me to a stage 2 cam. I'm thinking.....


...

[jbradsh1]

That sounds like a good plan, but now that I saw Paul made 442 rwhp & 411 rwtq from Livernois Stage 1 cam, I would like to make that or just a little bit more, while still maintaining most of the manners at idle.

This would take me to a stage 2 cam. I'm thinking.....


...

It'll be interesting to see the results when we're both done.

[G8GT721]

what would be a good small/mild cam to be used with a procharger and roughly the gains exppected?

Another question for you guys do you think it would be foolish to get a custom ground cam for a FI system and waiting a year or possibly more before getting a system?

[GeorgeInNePa]

That sounds like a good plan, but now that I saw Paul made 442 rwhp & 411 rwtq from Livernois Stage 1 cam, I would like to make that or just a little bit more, while still maintaining most of the manners at idle.

This would take me to a stage 2 cam. I'm thinking.....


...

Just remember that there is power left on the table there.

He didn't have his heads ported and I don't think he had the compression increased either. Those should be worth another 30hp or so.

Another quick and easy 10 to 12 hp is a ported intake manifold.

[Crazy Paul]

Another question for you guys do you think it would be foolish to get a custom ground cam for a FI system and waiting a year or possibly more before getting a system?

Depends a bit if you are going turbo or supercharged.
It's my understanding that a supercharged "blower" cam will be similar type specs to what is already recommended for L92 heads.
There may well be more to it than meets the eye, with different ramp rates or valve event timing ground into a "custom blower" cam tho, that I dont know. I'm sure an expert could come up with a cam that suits your application.

eg:
Speed Inc Blower Street Grind
SC2 224 232 .581 .595 114

Livernois Stage 1 (L92)
224 230 .581 .590 114

[Crazy Paul]

Just remember that there is power left on the table there.
He didn't have his heads ported and I don't think he had the compression increased either. Those should be worth another 30hp or so.
Another quick and easy 10 to 12 hp is a ported intake manifold.

Raising compression from 10.4 to 10.9 gives something close to 10 hp alone.
But for those considering doing so, you have to realise that piston to valve clearance in a 6.0 with L92 heads is already fairly tight.
I'd imagine that the Livernois Stage 2 would require fly cutting of the pistons in a 6.0 with shaved heads.

[Mike P]

Just remember that there is power left on the table there.

He didn't have his heads ported and I don't think he had the compression increased either. Those should be worth another 30hp or so.

Another quick and easy 10 to 12 hp is a ported intake manifold.


George: Do you think by going with a Stage 2 cam it will compromise driveability? If I go with the Stage 1 cam and have the heads ported, do a valve job, and all that good stuff, that would make great horsepower too.

Or maybe do all that extra stuff with a Stage 2 cam & be that much futher along in the game?



...

[jbradsh1]

Just remember that there is power left on the table there.

He didn't have his heads ported and I don't think he had the compression increased either. Those should be worth another 30hp or so.

Another quick and easy 10 to 12 hp is a ported intake manifold.

You are correct! Trouble is, I'm looking for ways to reduce the power that a cam such as the Livernois stage 1 produces; by getting a smaller one so that it's not too much hp for a daily driver and doesn't strain the drive train. But, Andy may be convincing me to go ahead with their stage 1. Probably should drive one and that will tell the story.

[Mike P]

jbradsh1: Yes, go Stage 1. I can see the future, you're drivetrain will love you. :)



...

[jbradsh1]

jbradsh1: Yes, go Stage 1. I can see the future, you're drivetrain will love you. :)



...

Then we would truly have a corvette for a four door sedan.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Raising compression from 10.4 to 10.9 gives something close to 10 hp alone.
But for those considering doing so, you have to realise that piston to valve clearance in a 6.0 with L92 heads is already fairly tight.
I'd imagine that the Livernois Stage 2 would require fly cutting of the pistons in a 6.0 with shaved heads.

Hopefully Andy will stop by and tell us if that is required or not with their set-up.

[GeorgeInNePa]

George: Do you think by going with a Stage 2 cam it will compromise driveability? If I go with the Stage 1 cam and have the heads ported, do a valve job, and all that good stuff, that would make great horsepower too.

Or maybe do all that extra stuff with a Stage 2 cam & be that much futher along in the game?



...

You have to decide how much power you want and then you can decide what you need to do.

I am going to have the heads done on my car, that way if I decide to change the cam to something more aggressive, all the supporting mods are done already.

[GeorgeInNePa]

You are correct! Trouble is, I'm looking for ways to reduce the power that a cam such as the Livernois stage 1 produces; by getting a smaller one so that it's not too much hp for a daily driver and doesn't strain the drive train. But, Andy may be convincing me to go ahead with their stage 1. Probably should drive one and that will tell the story.

You really should just look into putting a Magnacharger on your car and be done with it.

It would be very easy for you to have 425 to 450 RWHP, stock sounding, very easy driving car with no worries.

[jbradsh1]

You really should just look into putting a Magnacharger on your car and be done with it.

It would be very easy for you to have 425 to 450 RWHP, stock sounding, very easy driving car with no worries.

Don't like the whine. And I really like a motor that comes on the cam. My car when I'm done will be such a sleeper no one will have any clues, until ... they loose. Besides the cam is about 1/2 the price of the S/C, pretty similar results.

[G8GT594]

Just remember that there is power left on the table there.

He didn't have his heads ported and I don't think he had the compression increased either. Those should be worth another 30hp or so.

Another quick and easy 10 to 12 hp is a ported intake manifold.

Didn't port the heads, milled them and i believe the compression is bumped slightly because of that. There is indeed power to be had but the bank account was telling me no.

[Mike P]

You have to decide how much power you want and then you can decide what you need to do.

I am going to have the heads done on my car, that way if I decide to change the cam to something more aggressive, all the supporting mods are done already.


Sounds good. I guess I'll get the heads done on my car too. :)



...

[jbradsh1]

Besides the cam, I'll probably have a good 5 angle valve job done. That will bump the compression some and the hp as well. Don't think I'll shave the heads myself. Don't want to worry at 6500 rpm.

[Kirk@VectorMotorsports]

Raising compression from 10.4 to 10.9 gives something close to 10 hp alone.
But for those considering doing so, you have to realise that piston to valve clearance in a 6.0 with L92 heads is already fairly tight.
I'd imagine that the Livernois Stage 2 would require fly cutting of the pistons in a 6.0 with shaved heads.

We always mill the heads in our LS3 head/cam packages. At .600" lift there are still no piston to valve issues. We spin these motors to 6800 with stock rod bolts and 7000-7200 if we change the rod bolts.

That being said we can grind a cam to make any HP level you want. We have tested cams ranging from stock LS7 to a GM LSX stage 3 233/276 on a 108 LSA.

[jbradsh1]

We always mill the heads in our LS3 head/cam packages. At .600" lift there are still no piston to valve issues. We spin these motors to 6800 with stock rod bolts and 7000-7200 if we change the rod bolts.

That being said we can grind a cam to make any HP level you want. We have tested cams ranging from stock LS7 to a GM LSX stage 3 233/276 on a 108 LSA.

Okey dokey, does the L76 have LS3 quality rod bolts? How about the pistons? What do ya think about the comp cams 212/218 .558/.563 LSA 115? And Kirk, since we're on the subject, what cam do you like to install with the L76 assuming LTs, cai, tune? I for one, would like to hear a little more from you about cams!

[bigwillys58]

sein as how im workin mad overtime for a couple weeks i might be able to fund my cam sooner than i thought. im thinkin a custom livernois deal... maybe the stage II (not the stage II R) with a tighter (112) LSA... any thoughts and/or suggestions on this andy or rick?? i guess when i git ready ill just give yall a call.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Bring it to them and let dan do your tune as well Bigwillys58....He's got a really good handle on the trannie tune now thanks to some input from a friend at GM's powertrain division :)

[Mike P]

sein as how im workin mad overtime for a couple weeks i might be able to fund my cam sooner than i thought. im thinkin a custom livernois deal... maybe the stage II (not the stage II R) with a tighter (112) LSA... any thoughts and/or suggestions on this andy or rick?? i guess when i git ready ill just give yall a call.


I may have to cruise up to Cadilac for a quick G8 race! Glad to see there are some Michigan G8 enthusiasts other than the Detroit Metro Area. :)

:devil:


...

[bigwillys58]

Bring it to them and let dan do your tune as well Bigwillys58....He's got a really good handle on the trannie tune now thanks to some input from a friend at GM's powertrain division :)

i wanna do the cam install myself but yes its lookin like theyre prolly gonna be the ones to tune it for me...




I may have to cruise up to Cadilac for a quick G8 race! Glad to see there are some Michigan G8 enthusiasts other than the Detroit Metro Area. :)

:devil:


...

give it time man!! haha i still gotta spank my buddys lt1 camaro...

[5letr]

I will cam mine at some point, just like my last 2 LS1s. There is nothing like the added power of a cam, especially for the small amount of money.

[ULTRA Z]

will change the cam when i get the MAGNAcharger :) what the wife wants the wife gets :) damn the warrenty IMO

[vinzul]

what is the hours of labor involved in changing the cam on the ls3

[Devilish34]

will change the cam when i get the MAGNAcharger :) what the wife wants the wife gets :) damn the warrenty IMO

Your wife needs to talk to my wife lol

[edmanet]

Your wife needs to talk to my wife lol

Yes she does......we need to keep you out of the dog house.

[ULTRA Z]

Your wife needs to talk to my wife lol

lol your wife must not want the charger lol well amber is against the kit for temperary ??? don't know if i spelled that right ??? power till i get the money to do the charger

[Devilish34]

My wife has been asking me what I want for my birthday(which I usually say nothing) so I emailed my wife the link for Livernois stage 1 mail order with the title Birthday Wish List. She responded "Something with in reason" My reply was"What I'm not worth it??" lol Hopefully I'll nab a couple a $$$ jobs soon


I was wondering what cams have ppl been installing? Seems like most are going with Livernois stage 1 has anyone done any other cam ie 1b,c or stage 2?

[Mike P]

My wife has been asking me what I want for my birthday(which I usually say nothing) so I emailed my wife the link for Livernois stage 1 mail order with the title Birthday Wish List. She responded "Something with in reason" My reply was"What I'm not worth it??" lol Hopefully I'll nab a couple a $$$ jobs soon


I was wondering what cams have ppl been installing? Seems like most are going with Livernois stage 1 has anyone done any other cam ie 1b,c or stage 2?


It's funny that you say that. When I got my cam, I really campaigned to my wife that I wanted my heads fully ported. She is in accounting & finance, so I made her a nice MS excel spreadsheet with web hyperlinks, costs vs. hp, and time it would mean in the 1/4 mile lost or gained, and HP & TQ lost or gained by doing certain mods with the cam.

She denied my claim for the ported heads, I'm still kinda pissed & wish we would have ported the heads.

Good luck with your modding proposal :)


...

[Andy@Livernois]

My wife has been asking me what I want for my birthday(which I usually say nothing) so I emailed my wife the link for Livernois stage 1 mail order with the title Birthday Wish List. She responded "Something with in reason" My reply was"What I'm not worth it??" lol Hopefully I'll nab a couple a $$$ jobs soon


I was wondering what cams have ppl been installing? Seems like most are going with Livernois stage 1 has anyone done any other cam ie 1b,c or stage 2?

our stage 1b is usually for blower, and our stage 1c is for someone that wants almost zero lope at all but still wants some solid performance. Hopefully we will have dyno numbers and videos of our GXP with this cam soon ;)

[Devilish34]

our stage 1b is usually for blower, and our stage 1c is for someone that wants almost zero lope at all but still wants some solid performance. Hopefully we will have dyno numbers and videos of our GXP with this cam soon ;)

Andy I left you a message yesterday so maybe we can talk on Monday. :)


It's funny that you say that. When I got my cam, I really campaigned to my wife that I wanted my heads fully ported. She is in accounting & finance, so I made her a nice MS excel spreadsheet with web hyperlinks, costs vs. hp, and time it would mean in the 1/4 mile lost or gained, and HP & TQ lost or gained by doing certain mods with the cam.

She denied my claim for the ported heads, I'm still kinda pissed & wish we would have ported the heads.

Good luck with your modding proposal :)


...

lol that won't work for me .....I have the money to do this now but it would drain most of my fun funds.

[-Ray-]

It's funny that you say that. When I got my cam, I really campaigned to my wife that I wanted my heads fully ported. She is in accounting & finance, so I made her a nice MS excel spreadsheet with web hyperlinks, costs vs. hp, and time it would mean in the 1/4 mile lost or gained, and HP & TQ lost or gained by doing certain mods with the cam.

She denied my claim for the ported heads, I'm still kinda pissed & wish we would have ported the heads.

Good luck with your modding proposal :)


...

Mike,
I love that you did that, but you're playing HER game.
You missed the part where your satisfaction is PRICELESS. The happier you are, the happier she is. Get it?

:)

[Mike P]

Mike,
I love that you did that, but you're playing HER game.
You missed the part where your satisfaction is PRICELESS. The happier you are, the happier she is. Get it?

:)


I like that thinking, I was playing her game & didn't even know it! Damn..... Oh well, I've got my wheels & ordering my tires ASAP.


:)



...

[Devilish34]

I like that thinking, I was playing her game & didn't even know it! Damn..... Oh well, I've got my wheels & ordering my tires ASAP.


:)



...

My wife doesn't play games...And I really don't want her to know how much this stuff cost either :no:

[Mike P]

My wife doesn't play games...And I really don't want her to know how much this stuff cost either :no:


Yep, I hear that...... :)


...

[gr8lover]

Just got my car back last week with a new cam installed--- wow- It is better than I imagined.

[jbradsh1]

our stage 1b is usually for blower, and our stage 1c is for someone that wants almost zero lope at all but still wants some solid performance. Hopefully we will have dyno numbers and videos of our GXP with this cam soon ;)

For my future reference Andy, what are the features of the 1c cam compared to the stage 1, i.e., idle rpm, stability of idle, lope if any, power gain compared to the stage 1, etc.?

Second question: along with a cam install, do you think that going with Kooks shorties (1 7/8") and a cat back with stock mufflers instead of Kooks LTs would help or mitigate idle issues? Thanks in advance.

[Tempest2000]

not andy, but I can help...

reg. stage 1 has some lope at idle, idle has to be upped to 750-850 range. You lose a little bottom end, but not much... typical with headers, cai,cat back, tune, udp, valve job milled heads 420's up to 450 depending on what all was done...

Stage 1c idle is closer to stock, little to no lope at idle like he posted still a good gain in performance over stock especially above 4k... 1c is down about 20-25hp/tq from the reg stage 1 with everything else being equal.

exhaust isn't going to help idle issues either way its just a matter of making it louder or quieter and how much of a hp/tq gain. kooks full LT setup obviously has the most gains... I'd say kooks mid 1 7/8 and corsa catback that I have would be a close 2nd to longtubes I lost about 10hp to the lt setup...

[Tempest2000]

FWIW I was considering going to the stage 1c if I go with a maggie setup to go to a more OEM feel/sound to make it more of a sleeper :)

[jbradsh1]

FWIW I was considering going to the stage 1c if I go with a maggie setup to go to a more OEM feel/sound to make it more of a sleeper :)

What does the 1c idle at?

[Devilish34]

What does the 1c idle at?

Ask SVTCOBRA he has one errrrr I think

[Tempest2000]

I want to say he said 750, but if it idles like stock I would think you could get it below 700...

[jbradsh1]

I want to say he said 750, but if it idles like stock I would think you could get it below 700...

By the way, I think your numbers are pretty impressive. Mine made the same with the Kooks LTs (just over 400 or tq but exactly 427 rwhp). I actually think the shorty headers with a cat back enable both a smoother idle and better emmisions. It's the way I'm going to go on my next G8 GT. I really liked the stage 1 cam, man did it make the car haul with almost no loss in bottom end. But I like a little more stock quality on the idle and so forth and I'm willing to loose some performance to get that.

And since I'm "beyond help" no one can argue with what I've just said here.

[Tempest2000]

Emissions I'm sure it helps... smoother idle I couldn't say. Mine doesn't idle bad it barely has any lope at idle. You can hear it through the exhaust, but its not much lope IMO.

I hear you this is truly my DD as I have no back up car any more and there are some days I think the same some days. Its usually a rainy day and I can't open it up LOL on nice days I wouldn't give it up for the world...

There are a few changes I'd like to make though... one is a 2600-2800 converter for two reasons. 1 take a little of the surge when coming to a stop (its not all the time, but usually after a nice run of stretching its legs) and 2 a little better launch off idle.

The other change is a 3.27 or 3.45 diff...

I think it will be gears first as I'm going to put on my suspension kit soon and why not do it at the same time...

Ultimately I want a maggie, but my wife doesn't want me to sink any more money in this car LOL I think 500hp with a higher stall and gears and it should be a handful for a DD

[Tempest2000]

its funny you say that about my numbers I've heard the same thing from several others with a similar setup and longtubes I'm happy with my numbers.

[jbradsh1]

its funny you say that about my numbers I've heard the same thing from several others with a similar setup and longtubes I'm happy with my numbers.

Have you had a chance to run it at the track with your current set-up?

[Tempest2000]

no it needs a converter if I want to run decent numbers I don't think gears alone would get me a decent 60 ft.

its a street car only right now... mainly roll racing

If I can pick up a DD and this can be my play car things will definately change.

bad thing is where I live its all 8th tracks unless I want to drive up to bowling green... kinda sux.

My dad has a roadster we run at the 8th track locally. Its called pure junk for a reason LOL

Nah its running a 400 sb 600hp at 2600lbs or so with a powerglide. I don't think he's put the 150 shot back on yet.

If I want to run local thats the car not my G8...

[jbradsh1]

no it needs a converter if I want to run decent numbers I don't think gears alone would get me a decent 60 ft.

its a street car only right now... mainly roll racing

If I can pick up a DD and this can be my play car things will definately change.

bad thing is where I live its all 8th tracks unless I want to drive up to bowling green... kinda sux.

My dad has a roadster we run at the 8th track locally. Its called pure junk for a reason LOL

Nah its running a 400 sb 600hp at 2600lbs or so with a powerglide. I don't think he's put the 150 shot back on yet.

If I want to run local thats the car not my G8...

Well, I ran a 12.6 @ over 115 mph with the stock converter and a/s tires, and that was on a 70 degree night in the swamps (Florida). How fast do you want to go?

[Tempest2000]

I want mid 11's at least, but I really am shooting for high 10's long term. I know what tools I need and I'm nowhere near my goal yet so no need to visit the track just yet...

converter and gears will get me 11's it'll take nos or FI to get anywhere near 10's based on what I've seen

[jbradsh1]

I want mid 11's at least, but I really am shooting for high 10's long term. I know what tools I need and I'm nowhere near my goal yet so no need to visit the track just yet...

converter and gears will get me 11's it'll take nos or FI to get anywhere near 10's based on what I've seen

I see. Great project, and it should be just a blast to drive it with that set-up. Good luck.

[dline]

Do most cams require a converter, i wouldnt want to lose bottom end at all for a cam swap, than need a converter.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I think the converter is needed, cam or no cam. Look what it has done for Georgeinpa and Deputy Crawfords times. I personally think the converter drives better in a cammed car vs stock using riding and driving Deputy Crawfords car vs Tigger. But Jerry hasn't had his retuned yet which will probably help. Mine was pretty much spot on w/out much tuning needed on the tranny side.
BlackBerry8703e/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104

[waltah]

you cant use a converter for a vehicle you drive in the winter, is this correct?

[fiveoh]

you cant use a converter for a vehicle you drive in the winter, is this correct?

You CAN you just have to be more careful. It is much easier to spin the tires and taking off without doing so may need a little finese in the snow but I'm sure it would probably be ok once you got used to it.

[Devilish34]

Do most cams require a converter, i wouldnt want to lose bottom end at all for a cam swap, than need a converter.

My cam did not require a converter and as far as I know Livernois Stage 1 does not either. I just depends on the cams duration and how much surge you would have

[Devilish34]

you cant use a converter for a vehicle you drive in the winter, is this correct?

If you have concerns about it I'd either pass or look into a tight 2600.