LT headers: stock vs cammed!

[jbradsh1]

I have Kooks 1 3/4" shorty headers with high flow cats and I have recently added the Magnaflow X pipe section (kept stock mufflers). Motor is stock. Question: how much improvement in 1/4 mile times & mph will I see if I get LT headers only (keeping stock muffs)? Second question: with a cam upgrade (Livernois stage 1) how much more improvement am I likely to see with the cam, as I have the exhaust now? And with LTs how much difference cammed? I'm trying to determine if, at this point, it would make much sense, dollar spent vs hp gained, to buy LT headers. Any constructive input would be appreciated very much.

[g8_795]

You would basically have my setup with the LT's and I can run 12.7's consistently.

[jbradsh1]

You would basically have my setup with the LT's and I can run 12.7's consistently.

Good to know & thanks. Are you pretty consistently around 110 mph or does it dip down to 107-108 (still in the 12's)?

[99-LS1-SS]

With your current exhaust, the best analogy I can give you is imagine breathing through a straw. Regardless of how strong your lungs are (this represents the cam) you still can't pull but so much air through the straw. If you get a larger straw (long tube headers) then you can let the lungs (cam) work to their full potential.

If this is too cryptic and doesn't make sense, what I'm trying to say is if you can only get LT's or a cam right now get LT's. That will see the most improvement.

[Darkside]

I highly doubt that the stock mufflers are hurting at all. I think it would be a waste of money to add a cam with shorty headers. Kind of like working at Hooters with small boobies.

[g8_795]

Good to know & thanks. Are you pretty consistently around 110 mph or does it dip down to 107-108 (still in the 12's)?

Most of my runs are at 110 now. I did have one at 12.8 at 109.3. I think that has been my slowest in a while. I can't wait for the track to open again.

[jbradsh1]

Thanks for all the replies. I think Andy @Livernois might have a special on Kooks LTs. I'll check that out, although from what I've read, I'd prefer the ARH system.
It looks like, even though I've run 13.1's at 108 mph, that LTs would probably bump me up to high 12's at around 110 mph. Then I assume the cam would make for low 12's at around 115 mph. Sound about right?

[Darkside]

Thanks for all the replies. I think Andy @Livernois might have a special on Kooks LTs. I'll check that out, although from what I've read, I'd prefer the ARH system.
It looks like, even though I've run 13.1's at 108 mph, that LTs would probably bump me up to high 12's at around 110 mph. Then I assume the cam would make for low 12's at around 115 mph. Sound about right?

I would assume more mid 12's unless you plan on doing head work and a bigger cam.

[IXLR8]

I highly doubt that the stock mufflers are hurting at all. I think it would be a waste of money to add a cam with shorty headers. Kind of like working at Hooters with small boobies.

mmmmm Hooters...
:hmm:

[Mike P]

Thanks for all the replies. I think Andy @Livernois might have a special on Kooks LTs. I'll check that out, although from what I've read, I'd prefer the ARH system.
It looks like, even though I've run 13.1's at 108 mph, that LTs would probably bump me up to high 12's at around 110 mph. Then I assume the cam would make for low 12's at around 115 mph. Sound about right?


If I were you, and you are going to get Long Tube Headers before getting a cam, I would go with American Racing Headers 1"7/8 size.

Then cam to follow after. :)


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[jbradsh1]

I would assume more mid 12's unless you plan on doing head work and a bigger cam.

That's what mystifies me. I add LT's, cai, tune and get up to about 355 rwhp. Then I add the stage 1 cam and get up to about 440 rwhp with a good valve job. First increase is about 55-60 rwhp, second one (cam) is an additional 85 rwhp, but you only go from 12.7's to middle 12's. Makes no sense to me. Maybe someone could come in here and enlighten the unenlightened.

[GeorgeInNePa]

I would assume more mid 12's unless you plan on doing head work and a bigger cam.


You don't need a cam to go mid 12s.

[Darkside]

That's what mystifies me. I add LT's, cai, tune and get up to about 355 rwhp. Then I add the stage 1 cam and get up to about 440 rwhp with a good valve job. First increase is about 55-60 rwhp, second one (cam) is an additional 85 rwhp, but you only go from 12.7's to middle 12's. Makes no sense to me. Maybe someone could come in here and enlighten the unenlightened.

You didn't mention the head work originally. The headwork along with cam should get you low 12's, maybe high 11's with traction. Weather and altitude will also play a huge role in the times.


You don't need a cam to go mid 12s.

You don't need it but it certainly helps. If you want to run consistently in different weather conditions to do it.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Go to ls1.com.au and check out the times there.

[GRRRR8]

Heads/Cam/Converter and mods I will be running 11.30s

[jbradsh1]

Bottom line for me is I'd like to turn 12.5's or better at a minimum of 114 mph. What's it gonna take to get me there with my all season 18" wheels & tires, i.e., how much rwhp?

[GRRRR8]

DRs will make it easier. Put a 2800 stall and some DRs and you will be close to that time. George is at 12.56 with LTs/Converter/DRs and basic mods.

[jbradsh1]

DRs will make it easier. Put a 2800 stall and some DRs and you will be close to that time. George is at 12.56 with LTs/Converter/DRs and basic mods.

I hear ya, but what I mean is how much rwhp will it take given my stock wheels & tires without a stall, i.e., just hp alone?

[GRRRR8]

Its not going to happen on your stock tires. If you have 380 with traction or 450 without, what difference does it make. If it dont hook, you dont need to make the situation worse. Or spend a bunch of money and then go get DRs. :)

[Mike P]

Its not going to happen on your stock tires. If you have 380 with traction or 450 without, what difference does it make. If it dont hook, you dont need to make the situation worse. Or spend a bunch of money and then go get DRs. :)


I'm going to pull some 1.8s with the stock tires, I can feel it. :)

I think JBradsh1 wants to try to go fast on the stock tires as well.

It's all good. :)


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[GRRRR8]

I stuck a 1.90 on 19s and thats good. With no converter or just extra HP you are going against the odds. I wish you both well........as I hit some 1.60 60fters! :nah:

[Mike P]

Okay, well maybe I'll rip off a 1.89 then. :)

But, you're right I'll probably get pissed and then want some drag radials.

It's fun trying to limit the wheel spin with stock tires. But it's probably even more fun being able to NAIL IT with the DRs on..... :)



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[GRRRR8]

I have been through it. In a way, I am doing the same thing going for low 11s with no power adder. I just found the first 60 feet is crucial to fast ETs.

[Mike P]

I have been through it. In a way, I am doing the same thing going for low 11s with no power adder. I just found the first 60 feet is crucial to fast ETs.


Yep, I hear you. I think I'm going to just keep mine all motor.




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[GeorgeInNePa]

Bottom line for me is I'd like to turn 12.5's or better at a minimum of 114 mph. What's it gonna take to get me there with my all season 18" wheels & tires, i.e., how much rwhp?

A lot of trips to the dragstrip and lots of practice.

[jbradsh1]

I've seen Zosoboogie run 12.2 @116 on stock 18" tires & wheels with just a maggie with a Magnaflow cat back, even had the stock intake. Since the maggie makes more torque below 3K rpm than a cam would, and is therefore more liable to have a problem getting traction, I'm thinking that a cam won't interfere with traction nearly as much (I'm not getting a stall) so mid 12's @ 114 mph would be very realistic, even with stock tires. In any case, after listening to everyone's input, that's what I've decided to do. What I want is a car that looks and sounds stock but flat hauls. Saturday at the track, when I beat the mustang twice, he came running over shouting the exclamation "that car can't be stock, I walk on stock G8's". So I had a little chuckle. And thanks to all you guys for your knowledge and help that was possible!

[Mike P]

I've seen Zosoboogie run 12.2 @116 on stock 18" tires & wheels with just a maggie with a Magnaflow cat back, even had the stock intake. Since the maggie makes more torque below 3K rpm than a cam would, and is therefore more liable to have a problem getting traction, I'm thinking that a cam won't interfere with traction nearly as much (I'm not getting a stall) so mid 12's @ 114 mph would be very realistic, even with stock tires. In any case, after listening to everyone's input, that's what I've decided to do. What I want is a car that looks and sounds stock but flat hauls. Saturday at the track, when I beat the mustang twice, he came running over shouting the exclamation "that car can't be stock, I walk on stock G8's". So I had a little chuckle. And thanks to all you guys for your knowledge and help that was possible!


I am going the same route. Stealthy & seems like stock (except for how it goes like crazy!)


The quote from the Mustang owner is funny!!! :)



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[GeorgeInNePa]

I've seen Zosoboogie run 12.2 @116 on stock 18" tires & wheels with just a maggie with a Magnaflow cat back, even had the stock intake. Since the maggie makes more torque below 3K rpm than a cam would, and is therefore more liable to have a problem getting traction, I'm thinking that a cam won't interfere with traction nearly as much (I'm not getting a stall) so mid 12's @ 114 mph would be very realistic, even with stock tires. In any case, after listening to everyone's input, that's what I've decided to do. What I want is a car that looks and sounds stock but flat hauls. Saturday at the track, when I beat the mustang twice, he came running over shouting the exclamation "that car can't be stock, I walk on stock G8's". So I had a little chuckle. And thanks to all you guys for your knowledge and help that was possible!

Remember when you asked about LTs vs. Shorties? Everybody told you to get LTs, you insisted you'd be fine with the Shorties.

Now you want LTs after finding out we were right.


So, you ask about how to go fast, we tell you but again, you don't really want the advice.

[Mike P]

Remember when you asked about LTs vs. Shorties? Everybody told you to get LTs, you insisted you'd be fine with the Shorties.

Now you want LTs after finding out we were right.


So, you ask about how to go fast, we tell you but again, you don't really want the advice.


Okay dad, are you going to ground him too? :)

Just kidding around......



....

[-Ray-]

Remember when you asked about LTs vs. Shorties? Everybody told you to get LTs, you insisted you'd be fine with the Shorties.

Now you want LTs after finding out we were right.


So, you ask about how to go fast, we tell you but again, you don't really want the advice.

....but it's going to be too loud.

[CanadianEh]

Remember when you asked about LTs vs. Shorties? Everybody told you to get LTs, you insisted you'd be fine with the Shorties.

Now you want LTs after finding out we were right.


So, you ask about how to go fast, we tell you but again, you don't really want the advice.

You live and you learn

[jbradsh1]

Remember when you asked about LTs vs. Shorties? Everybody told you to get LTs, you insisted you'd be fine with the Shorties.

Now you want LTs after finding out we were right.


So, you ask about how to go fast, we tell you but again, you don't really want the advice.

Well you're just so wise, it boggles the imagination.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Okay dad, are you going to ground him too? :)

Just kidding around......



....

No, he can stay up and watch Vanishing Point if he wants.


You live and you learn

Some do.

;)


Well you're just so wise, it boggles the imagination.

It wasn't just me...

We answer the questions that are asked with the best info that we can offer.

[Mike P]

:) Vanishing Point was a good show.....



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