Gxp ???

[Ktlplxm]

Just wondering guys, why would someone get rid of their GT for a GXP? So it has a six speed, brakes, and a slightly bigger engine; it shouldn't be that much quicker or nicer. I'm not bashing it, everyone has their opinions, I'm just wondering. It is because of future resale value? It just seems to me the GT can be made better, cheaper.

[GRRRR8]

Thats why I didnt wait.

[Blackdevil77]

Parts of me wish I waited and other parts wish i didn't. The part that wishes I waited is because it does have slightly more than the GT which would mean less work down the road. I especially like the brakes and the LS3. Reasons I'm glad I didn't wait is GG tax, can be just as fast fairly easily, GXP is ALOT more money, and I can't imagine still driving that 145 hp mercury sable when I look back on it lol.

[GeorgeInNePa]

IF you are a 6-speed fan, it is the only option for you.

But, I can't see selling a GT at a huge loss to get one. Only if you don't already have a G8 does a GXP make sense.

Then again, some of the deals that can be had on used GTs make the idea a non-starter. You could get a nice used GT and an LS3 out of a wrecked Vette and still be a lot cheaper than a GXP.

[Ktlplxm]

To me it boils down to the LS3 hype...I just don't get it. .060"... yippee. We have the same power as an LS3 once you tune for 93 octane. Reverse the math from whp numbers. $2600 and you have better brakes, and once Eibach or BMR release their sway bars you have better handling. The MPG confuses me though; with a break in tune in my car I still get 23 mpg highway, why don't they? I know someone will suggest gear ratio, but that shouldn't kill it that much; it doesn't in Fbody's (unless you go from like a 2.73 to a 4.10).

[GeorgeInNePa]

To me it boils down to the LS3 hype...I just don't get it. .060"... yippee. We have the same power as an LS3 once you tune for 93 octane. Reverse the math from whp numbers. $2600 and you have better brakes, and once Eibach or BMR release their sway bars you have better handling. The MPG confuses me though; with a break in tune in my car I still get 23 mpg highway, why don't they? I know someone will suggest gear ratio, but that shouldn't kill it that much; it doesn't in Fbody's (unless you go from like a 2.73 to a 4.10).

You also have to factor DoD into the mix.

It will cost me $1200 or so to get it out of my engine. If you are not able to do the work your self, add more money to that.

[Ktlplxm]

yeah... I don't have DOD

[zosoboogie]

For my experience is that all the other cars I was ever looking at I figure I would get next years model and wait because they would always come out with something better, bigger engine, better performance but then I got a good deal for a new car and I bought it and then modify it and I have better performance the the GXP in my opinion and I paid less.
I wanted the Lexus IS300 which I got then two years later they came out with the IS350 then its like,"damn I should of waited"
Where the hell was I in 1986 I should of bought a ton of shares of Microsoft oh yeah I was 6year old oh well, should of , could of , would of!!!

[MtbDoc]

I thought about waiting, but I DON'T want the 6sp on this car...I have the goat to stir gears in. Brakes + LS3? Sure. BUT: add a maggie or cam, upgrade brakes...cheaper. These cars are a BARGAIN. Think about the GXP suspension: the FE3 isn't the end-all. So you start changing parts. Brakes? Don't have an opinion on the Brembos.

The G8 is an amazing bargain...

[Ktlplxm]

For my experience is that all the other cars I was ever looking at I figure I would get next years model and wait because they would always come out with something better, bigger engine, better performance but then I got a good deal for a new car and I bought it and then modify it and I have better performance the the GXP in my opinion and I paid less.
I wanted the Lexus IS300 which I got then two years later they came out with the IS350 then its like,"damn I should of waited"
Where the hell was I in 1986 I should of bought a ton of shares of Microsoft oh yeah I was 6year old oh well, should of , could of , would of!!!

I agree, once the gxp comes out some marketing genius will decide to make a G8GT/GXP like the y did with the old SS/RS cars for $45,000 haha. No real gains, just option codes (and yes b4 someone points out that the RS wasn't a performance code.. I know). Oooh then the same genius' replacement will think they can then make and sell the $50,000 G8GTGXPCOMPG!!! Then, just like in true Vette/Chevy fashion you can make a car just as fast as the top of the line model for half as much!! (yet another ZR1 bash, sorry I really dislike that car)

[99-LS1-SS]

To me it boils down to the LS3 hype...I just don't get it. .060"... yippee. We have the same power as an LS3 once you tune for 93 octane. Reverse the math from whp numbers. $2600 and you have better brakes, and once Eibach or BMR release their sway bars you have better handling. The MPG confuses me though; with a break in tune in my car I still get 23 mpg highway, why don't they? I know someone will suggest gear ratio, but that shouldn't kill it that much; it doesn't in Fbody's (unless you go from like a 2.73 to a 4.10).

The LS3 isn't all hype, it's the real deal. Just for the record you don't get the same power with just a tune. The AFM cam on the L76 is smaller and restricts the engine some. Sure you can do all of the brakes and suspension mods but you run the risk of losing the warranty on those parts.

I'm not accusing you of this but, it seems like, in general, the only people that really trash the GXP are the people that already have the GT's. I'm not sure of why this is. Not all GT drivers are like this so I don't want this to turn into a bitching match.

I've listed the reasons why I'm getting the GXP in another thread. Personally, I couldn't care less if someone thinks I'm crazy for "wasting" my money on it. It's a free country and you are more than welcomed to feel the way you do. You don't and won't see me trying to convince everyone that the GXP is the second coming. I'm buying it because I want it. If you are happy with your GT then I am very happy for you. It's just that simple.

[Ktlplxm]

The LS3 isn't all hype, it's the real deal. Just for the record you don't get the same power with just a tune. The AFM cam on the L76 is smaller and restricts the engine some. Sure you can do all of the brakes and suspension mods but you run the risk of losing the warranty on those parts.

I'm not accusing you of this but, it seems like, in general, the only people that really trash the GXP are the people that already have the GT's. I'm not sure of why this is. Not all GT drivers are like this so I don't want this to turn into a bitching match.

I've listed the reasons why I'm getting the GXP in another thread. Personally, I couldn't care less if someone thinks I'm crazy for "wasting" my money on it. It's a free country and you are more than welcomed to feel the way you do. You don't and won't see me trying to convince everyone that the GXP is the second coming. I'm buying it because I want it. If you are happy with your GT then I am very happy for you. It's just that simple.

Man that one got you riled up for no reason.. No one said you were wasting your money or even called you out specifically on it. I merely asked the question hoping there is something I'm missing that the GXP will have. The tune may not get you there but it gets close according to "tune" numbers reported by people on the various sites, or claims made by tuners. The trans and driveshaft combo usually results in approx 20% loss; we've all seen postings of 320-330whp tunes which is around 80% of 410hp. The sway bars and brakes would be a hard pressed voidance issue for the simple fact that the bars can be ordered in black so as not to stand out, and the brakes themselves are made by Brembo.
If you want the GXP good for you. I hope you enjoy it to its fullest extent. Its just that to some others its the same thing as a C5 Zo6 to a FRC, a little improvement for a lot of money. They are entitled to their opinions as much as the Pro- GXP guys

[Ktlplxm]

I thought about waiting, but I DON'T want the 6sp on this car...I have the goat to stir gears in. Brakes + LS3? Sure. BUT: add a maggie or cam, upgrade brakes...cheaper. These cars are a BARGAIN. Think about the GXP suspension: the FE3 isn't the end-all. So you start changing parts. Brakes? Don't have an opinion on the Brembos.

The G8 is an amazing bargain...

I agree with you on the 6 speed part, especially seeing as how I still have 2 cars with em lol.

[99-LS1-SS]

Man that one got you riled up for no reason.. No one said you were wasting your money or even called you out specifically on it. I merely asked the question hoping there is something I'm missing that the GXP will have. The tune may not get you there but it gets close according to "tune" numbers reported by people on the various sites, or claims made by tuners. The trans and driveshaft combo usually results in approx 20% loss; we've all seen postings of 320-330whp tunes which is around 80% of 410hp. The sway bars and brakes would be a hard pressed voidance issue for the simple fact that the bars can be ordered in black so as not to stand out, and the brakes themselves are made by Brembo.
If you want the GXP good for you. I hope you enjoy it to its fullest extent. Its just that to some others its the same thing as a C5 Zo6 to a FRC, a little improvement for a lot of money. They are entitled to their opinions as much as the Pro- GXP guys

I really wasn't too riled up. Only the first part was related to your post. The second was a tangent. It's just that it seems like there is a new thread every day stating how the GXP was over rated and it wasn't worth the money. I guess I just get tired of seeing the same posts over and over.

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

The brakes and suspension parts from the GXP will bolt right on the GT, or you can go aftermarket and take it up a notch. I feel the brakes on the GT are more than sufficient, so put the money into some engine mods instead and you'll have a nice handling G8 with more than enough power for the street.

[jbradsh1]

Well, my G8 GT is as fast as a stock GXP. And for about $33K which includes the out the door price of the car plus the upgrades I've done I call that a screamin' bargain. I may end up putting GXP brakes on the car when they become available but the car doesn't need them. I think I'd rather spend the some extra money on a cam which would add another 60 rwhp (500 hp at the crank). Then I'd have about $36K total in the car and it should be as fast as a stock vette. And that is good enough for me.

[GRRRR8]

GXPs taste like chicken! I had to do it Brandon. :)

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

The GT is just longing for suspension upgrades, it handles pretty good as it is, but I know there's a lot more potential to be found. That's why the GXP has a better suspension, and I'm sure it will out handle a GT with ease.

[GRRRR8]

Pedders Track II evens things up. As long as the GXP can be bought for sticker or less, it will be a great buy and a threat to all that try it.

[GeorgeInNePa]

The GT is just longing for suspension upgrades, it handles pretty good as it is, but I know there's a lot more potential to be found. That's why the GXP has a better suspension, and I'm sure it will out handle a GT with ease.

The GXPs have the same rubber bushings as the GT. They have different valving in the struts and shocks and different rate springs, but I believe even the GXP doesn't have any gas in the struts/shocks.

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

They have different valving in the struts and shocks and different rate springs
That makes a world of difference, and that's why changing over to better aftermarket struts/springs makes the car handle so much better.

[The Commodore]

It crossed my mind but the extra 10k is way too much for me. I'm young and don't have a lot of money, the GT was high enough for me but I can take it. I would not have been able to afford a GXP but would have gotten one or waited for one if I could afford it. But I do feel they could have done a little more. The LS3 is awesome and it would not be hard to make an M5/M3 fighter out of the GXP which is a reason why I still like it. It should have come with better seats and factory Ram-air would have been sweet. I wish the GT came with a M6.....damn you GM!

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

When GM brought the Holden Commador here and rebadged it as a G8, I'm sure they didn't think it could top a German car that costs twice as much. They wanted a fast rear wheel drive sedan with good handling that would appeal to those that didn't want a GTO because it had 2 doors, or a Grand Prix GXP that wasn't very fast because it's front wheel drive. They knew the Zeta platform was the best car to achieve that goal, and by the looks of it they were right.

For them to take the GXP even further in it's performance ability, it would have cost too much money, and then they wouldn't be able to sell that many cars. So if you want to shift gears in your GT just put it in manual mode, then you don't have to worry about smoking the clutch and expect Pontiac to fix it under warranty.

[Ktlplxm]

It crossed my mind but the extra 10k is way too much for me. I'm young and don't have a lot of money, the GT was high enough for me but I can take it. I would not have been able to afford a GXP but would have gotten one or waited for one if I could afford it. But I do feel they could have done a little more. The LS3 is awesome and it would not be hard to make an M5/M3 fighter out of the GXP which is a reason why I still like it. It should have come with better seats and factory Ram-air would have been sweet. I wish the GT came with a M6.....damn you GM!

In my experience on the street, the 3 and 5 series without the M options are nothing but practice for even stock G8's. When I had cam, induction, exhaust, the M3 was still found wanting and the M5 was within reach; just a matter of who was driving the M5.

[Ktlplxm]

I really wasn't too riled up. Only the first part was related to your post. The second was a tangent. It's just that it seems like there is a new thread every day stating how the GXP was over rated and it wasn't worth the money. I guess I just get tired of seeing the same posts over and over.

Thats good to hear seeing as how you and I normally see pretty eye to eye on most matters.

[GeorgeInNePa]

That makes a world of difference, and that's why changing over to better aftermarket struts/springs makes the car handle so much better.

But they are still not gas-charged on the GXP. So some of those will get changed out for aftermarket.

[The Commodore]

In my experience on the street, the 3 and 5 series without the M options are nothing but practice for even stock G8's. When I had cam, induction, exhaust, the M3 was still found wanting and the M5 was within reach; just a matter of who was driving the M5.

A 335i will give the G8 GT a run.

[99-LS1-SS]

Yeah, my mother-in-law has one and it's pretty quick.

[99-LS1-SS]

Was the camera car a GXP?

[G8GXP4now]

I deleted the link when I realized the camera car was a GRAND PRIX GXP. Ha Ha. I am an idiot.

[99-LS1-SS]

LOL no problem. I was just surprised that a lightly modded G8 GT would walk a lightly modded GXP that bad.

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

With 50 hp more and the 6-speed the G8 GT is much quicker than a GP GXP. The LS4 in the GP GXP doesn't respond to mods as well as the L76 does.

[GRRRR8]

LOL no problem. I was just surprised that a lightly modded G8 GT would walk a lightly modded GXP that bad.

If its RED it will! :nah:

[johnh]

If its RED it will!

lol


Would I trade my GT for a GXP? Absolutely!
Would I trade my GT and $6K for a GXP? No way.
(Price difference is about $5700 between GT (s+p) and Auto GXP.

GXP is a fantastic car. If I had had the budget for it I would have gotten it. (unfortunately the Rebates now on the GXP would have made it much harder, although my GT was still ~$4k cheaper than a GXP now).

For the difference I can make the GT faster than a GXP for same price....the suspension and brakes aren't that big of a difference to me. Warranty is kind of a moot point, since I know I'd end up modding the GXP anyway.

Really if you want a M6 that to me is the biggest reason to get a GXP. Personally, I'd love to pick up a M6 GXP used in a couple of years.

[Ktlplxm]

lol


Would I trade my GT for a GXP? Absolutely!
Would I trade my GT and $6K for a GXP? No way.
(Price difference is about $5700 between GT (s+p) and Auto GXP.

GXP is a fantastic car. If I had had the budget for it I would have gotten it. (unfortunately the Rebates now on the GXP would have made it much harder, although my GT was still ~$4k cheaper than a GXP now).

For the difference I can make the GT faster than a GXP for same price....the suspension and brakes aren't that big of a difference to me. Warranty is kind of a moot point, since I know I'd end up modding the GXP anyway.

Really if you want a M6 that to me is the biggest reason to get a GXP. Personally, I'd love to pick up a M6 GXP used in a couple of years.

I think the warrant issue shouldn't even be considered since we all plan on modding it. If I were a new buyer and didn't have the GT AND the GXP wasn't around 40K I may have purchased one (but it would have been an auto). However, since I paid $25K for mine (which is how I got stuck with "PULL-ME" red, sorry Charlie) with 20 miles on it, I don't see it happening... lol

But on the warranty issue, some of you should like this, I took mine to the dealer the other day (not the local one mind you) to have the tranny checked. They checked the fluid, found it was 2 qts low AGAIN, and told me to come back in two weeks, if it was low again they're replacing the cooler/line assembly with no question asked. They didn't care about the induction or exhaust, and had no idea the engine had been changed. When they scanned it initially they either didn't notice the tranny flash that was done or they didn't care. Finally found one I like!!

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

Changing the air intake or the exhaust won't stop them from doing warranty work, but if they determine either one caused a mechanical breakdown they won't cover the repair.

[Ktlplxm]

Changing the air intake or the exhaust won't stop them from doing warranty work, but if they determine either one caused a mechanical breakdown they won't cover the repair.

And if they can find a way that an air intake or exhaust CAUSED something mechanical or in the driveline to fail then they are more delusional than previously given credit for. Seriously, if a cold air or exhaust can in ANY way cause a mechanical drive line problem then we all need to put paper filter elements back on our cars. All those parts do is increase the airflow and efficiency of an engine, and if thats all it takes to cause a problem...we're screwed. No more KN filters, no more synthetic lubricants, no aftermarket exhaust tips or mufflers, hell we can't even remove air silencers from the intake tract since they impede air flow...

We're all Doomed

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

I asked my Pontiac dealer about a K&N filter, they said if it's not over oiled it's ok to have one. I also asked them about an aftermarket exhaust system, they said if I retain the cat converter and the system uses the factory hangers it's acceptable.

[Ktlplxm]

I asked my Pontiac dealer about a K&N filter, they said if it's not over oiled it's ok to have one. I also asked them about an aftermarket exhaust system, they said if I retain the cat converter and the system uses the factory hangers it's acceptable.

That was kinda my point; those shouldn't void the warranty. There is no amount of bolt on parts that can be installed onto an engine that should void a warranty to me. All of them added up don't make enough power to hurt anything (assuming someone doesn't consider nitrous an add on lol). I think it should be the same for the other bolt-ons on the car; they should only void those specific parts, ie sway bars and spring shouldn't void it, brake pads, rotors, and calipers shouldn't. Granted, one cannot complain about the harshness of the ride if doing the springs, but a dealer shouldn't overlook a leaking shock just because its been lowered, a faulty abs unit shouldn't be disregarded just because of brake upgrades, etc. Things SHOULD only be voided if they are proven to be the cause of the problem. Case in point: should an improper shifting trans (hard shifts, shift flaring) be voided because of installed parts or tunes?, not necessarily, the problem is in vehicles without tunes, and they are doing the exact same things. I can't count how many sets of rotors I sold the local Dodge dealerships for Chargers (the police models and R/T's) because the factory ones were warping so quickly they couldn't keep up. They bought aftermarket rotors and the problems faded away. lol

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

Most aftermarket parts are better than the factory parts, which is why so many of us modify our cars. I had 3 Grand Prixs and none of them were stock, yet I never had a problem with a dealer over any of the aftermarkets parts that were installed on those cars. A lot of people worry unnecessarily about warranty coverage on their car if they have aftermarket parts, but most of the time they won't cause a problem.

[Ktlplxm]

True, but with the financial issues the dealerships are experiencing, some are cracking down harder than others. I've found that if you fight the dealers that try to unjustly void warranties, you can normally win through court or litigation without it ever making it to trial. That being said, I still think a GT w small mods is a better buy than a GXP lol