Fuel system... ZL1 PUMP?

[STL_G8GT]

Will the ZL1 Pump drop into our fuel tank? Are any of the camaro fuel options compatible with the g8?

Zl1 pump is about $270 and flows significantly more than the stock... any thoughts here?

Edit... update with major options

http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=29359&p=430034&viewfull=1#post430034

[MIEngineer]

Look at the diagrams for the tank assembly.

[STL_G8GT]

Unfortunately, i dont have access or know where to find pump diagrams, but I do know a couple board members have blazed this trail before the ZL1 pump was an option, and want to know if this should be revisited.

Earlier this year andy (realsquash) said it would bolt in but the line setup and potentially wiring were different. Then greg@pace said it was the same pump but different bucket... going to the camaro pump does us no good.... Going to the ZL1 pump would be a different story.

Back to my original question... those that have disassembled these, would the camaro (in this case zl1) pump drop into our bucket? Can the wiring be worked to make it work? Greg mentioned a pwm style pump, is that different than ours?

Any insight here?

[MIEngineer]

Unfortunately the ZL1 is not in production. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who has messed with one. Maybe a CTS-V pump would cross reference with a ZL1 or ZR1 and you can find out that way.

I know who works in that department who I can reference but I can't do anything until I get back.

[STL_G8GT]

Unfortunately the ZL1 is not in production. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who has messed with one. Maybe a CTS-V pump would cross reference with a ZL1 or ZR1 and you can find out that way.

I'm not at work, so I can't ask someone I know who works in that department.

Thank you for the help. I was perusing camaro5 and found that GM has released the pump as part of their performance division and that as far back as November people were ordering and receiving them. List is 450, most parts houses are doing 270 shipped... very interesting development if this works for us!!! GM Part number is 19258436.

[STL_G8GT]

Saw that it is pwm controlled, which I don't believe ours is. Can controllers be had for such things?

Also saw that greg considered selling his lonnies dual system in october for something a bit more oem...

Greg can you let the cat out of the bag?

[MIEngineer]

I knew they had pumps for their "E-ROD" and other crates, but occasionally things get changed for the sake of being more universal.

I'm not anywhere at the point of needing a pump since my engine is basically stock still.

250lph @ 65psi.

Just get the Camaro fuel pump controller with it...not sure if we need that even.

Edit - same pump GM offered for crate motors. I found the press release from work. Nice piece.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

The ZL1 pump is the exact pump used in the Caprice PPV. Why? My guess is because of the flex fuel capibility. The Caprice uses a differnt tank part number and now has PWM fuel pumps.
I ordered the ZL1 pump in when it was announced at SEMA. Looked at it and decided I would rathaer use the CTS-V dual pump instead, but it is about 2x the price.
I don't know if our cross over siphon tube is the same size as the ZL1 pump or the CTS-V pump (both have differnt size fittings), but that could be fixed pretty easily with an adapter.
I do know they will drop in and seal to our tank. They are the correct height to function properly also.

[STL_G8GT]

The ZL1 pump is the exact pump used in the Caprice PPV. Why? My guess is because of the flex fuel capibility. The Caprice uses a differnt tank part number and now has PWM fuel pumps.
I ordered the ZL1 pump in when it was announced at SEMA. Looked at it and decided I would rathaer use the CTS-V dual pump instead, but it is about 2x the price.
I don't know if our cross over siphon tube is the same size as the ZL1 pump or the CTS-V pump (both have differnt size fittings), but that could be fixed pretty easily with an adapter.
I do know they will drop in and seal to our tank. They are the correct height to function properly also.

Is the wiring and pwm design an issue? Sorry for the "dumb" questions...

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Sorry don't know the answer to that one. I didn't have a G8 pump to compare the connectors. Let me see what I can did up for you.
Edit: I do have the ZL1 pump in stock $249.95 plus shipping.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

G8 uses a 5 pin connector and only 4 are used. The PPV/ZL1 pump uses a 4 pin connector. The connector you need is a 13585475 - w/o leads so you would need to find terminals and build your own harness. The problem is it is not available from GM at this time and I don't have a price. I would get one from some place that parts out Camaros as they are all the same.

Wiring looks pretty simple, the pump will just run full blast at all times so you may need an external regulator to keep the pressure at bay when not needed.

Crossed the G8 transfer tube and it is the same as the Camaro/PPV/ZL1 so you are good there.

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

A few things:

- A G8 crossover tube is not the same on all these platforms. The G8 and CTS-V have a larger fitting on the bucket end than the Camaro, I have the two sitting here next to each other. I don't know how they can have the same part number?
- You can wire a pump used for PWM with full battery voltage without doing any harm to anything. In any case you'll need a regulator somewhere. You don't need a PWM controller (and sensor).
- The Camaro level sender has a different resistance or isn't linear or something along those lines. Some people have had trouble running the CTS-V setup in the Camaro showing funky fuel levels. It is fixed in the tune though so not a major problem.
- Greg is correct that the Camaro setup fits into the tank and seals up.
- The fuel line connects differently on top G8 vs. Camaro. Not a big deal but it has to be dealt with.

Andy

[STL_G8GT]

Thanks for the help here, guys!

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Andy,
My parts catalog (has been incorrect before) says the 2009 GT and GXP use part number 92214170 for the crossover tube, but they do list 92203244 also. Weird
13541
92214170 is the newer version, and 92203244 is G8 only.

[Slizzo]

5 wires would lead me to believe PWM is in-fact supported by our cars.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I don't think it is.
The G8 connector is a 5 cavity connector and the PWM PPV/Camaro is a 4 cavity connector.

I looked up the scematic for the PWM module and it references the CAN high and low lines so it would need to talk with the ECM/BCM to make it work, but I wouldn't go that route. Cheaper easier options out there.

[y2kws6]

I thought I had seen at one point that the level sensor was set up differently, are they able to be transferred? How big of a deal would it be to adapt the crossover tube? I am so tempted to get one and see if it will drop in and work.

[STL_G8GT]

I thought I had seen at one point that the level sensor was set up differently, are they able to be transferred? How big of a deal would it be to adapt the crossover tube? I am so tempted to get one and see if it will drop in and work.

It'd be a complete hitching solution for 600rwhp setups...

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I thought I had seen at one point that the level sensor was set up differently, are they able to be transferred? How big of a deal would it be to adapt the crossover tube? I am so tempted to get one and see if it will drop in and work.

I'll see what I can come up with for the crossover tube. I just ordered both and I have the pump here.
The G8 level sensor may just clip onto the ZL1 bucket but i'm not sure on that one.

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

If the ZL1 bucket is like the regular SS bucket (it looks identical) the G8 level sender won't fit them. The G8 slides up into the bucket on the outside. The Camaro sender mounts inside of its bucket with a different mechanism. I have the Camaro (SS) unit sitting here on my desk because I've been working on my new fuel system for it and I have the GM-supplied 3d models of the V, G8, and Camaro units for reference.

Andy

[y2kws6]

Would it be possible to utilize the sender even if it was different by calibrating it in the tune?

[shane]

What about just transporting the pump over into the g8 canister? I would love to see some pics...

[STL_G8GT]

What about just transporting the pump over into the g8 canister? I would love to see some pics...

I asked Greg about this... could be interesting.....

[y2kws6]

That would be great. Wish I had a spare G8 bucket because I'd order a ZL1 pump and see if it would fit.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I don't know but if Andy has the 3D's from GM he would be able to tell you.
I tried to get drawings from the years ago for some other parts and was denied. :(

[STL_G8GT]

I don't know but if Andy has the 3D's from GM he would be able to tell you.
I tried to get drawings from the years ago for some other parts and was denied. :(

Maybe MIEngineer or chuck (gr8lover) could get them?

[STL_G8GT]

Ohhhh Aaaaannnnndddddyyyyy!!!!!


I don't know but if Andy has the 3D's from GM he would be able to tell you.
I tried to get drawings from the years ago for some other parts and was denied. :(

[y2kws6]

Hey Andy, can you tell from the drawings if the stock ss pump and g8 pump are the same size? Maybe we could just swap the zl1 pump into our buckets.

[shane]

Hey Andy, can you tell from the drawings if the stock ss pump and g8 pump are the same size? Maybe we could just swap the zl1 pump into our buckets.

That's what im saying...

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

There is nothing in common between the stock SS setup and G8 except for the diameter of the hole in the tank and the depth of the tank. The Camaro assembly is completely different and absolutely nothing will interchange. The pumps are pretty much the same size, their external dimensions are about the same.

I know that the ZL1 setup is a single, but physically larger pump than the SS assembly has. You couldn't swap anything from the SS or ZL1 units to the G8. The filter assembly that the actual pump fits into is a completely different design.


This is the 3d model of the complete Camaro SS unit. You can see how the level sender fits inside of the bucket:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7150/6671261109_e5687f3174_b.jpg

Here's a photo of how the G8 level sender mounts to the G8 bucket:

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6188/6078084379_81375481a1_z.jpg

SS pump on the top, G8 on the bottom:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7141/6671295301_470d106638_b.jpg

Andy

[y2kws6]

Thanks Andy. So I guess(correct me if I'm wrong) if someone wanted to use the ZL1 pump assy the obstacles they'd have to overcome are the differences in the crossover tube(not a huge obstacle), the outlet(also not a big deal), and the sender(more of an issue). I know the sensor calibration can be changed for the sender with efilive, not sure about hp tuners.

[shane]

Someone needs to get pics of a ZL1 pump next to a stock pump...

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I got the ZL1 pump here
13657

[shane]

The pump not the basket lol..

[MaxPower]

I dunno.... but I'd find a way to adapt the level sender to the new ZL1 bucket. A few SS screws, etc, etc...

I bet it can be done.

[STL_G8GT]

I got the ZL1 pump here
13657

Got the lines on the way? :)

[Greg@PacePerformance]

The pump not the basket lol..

Yes I know :)


I dunno.... but I'd find a way to adapt the level sender to the new ZL1 bucket. A few SS screws, etc, etc...

I bet it can be done.
After looking at Andys pic and the ZL1 sensor it looks like the board "might" interchange I don't know.

[y2kws6]

Good idea Greg, I never even thought of swapping the boards. I wonder if its possible.

[shane]

I just want pics of the pump still lol.

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

There are pix on Camaro5, I think ADM posted them. The pump is quite a bit larger in diameter and a touch longer.

Andy

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Yea I just found them Andy
13679
13680
13681

[STL_G8GT]

If the zl1 pump is bigger, how is it that its a drop in solution for the ss? (I know that it is a bit bigger) Or is the 250 for the entire hanger assy?

[Greg@PacePerformance]

The $250 is for the whole module unit, not just the pump. That is how it is a drop in for the Camaro

[STL_G8GT]

Got it...

[y2kws6]

Any word on swapping boards? :)

[shane]

I still need to know height...

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Any word on swapping boards? :)
Took the ZL1 board home last night but didn't get a chance to mess with it.
I did check the resistance of the G8 sender and the Camaro sender
Both looked to be the same real quick.
40 ohms - 240 ohms so that is a good sign that we might not have to even switch them. I'll do more checking this weekend


I still need to know height...

I'll see if I can find out for you.

[y2kws6]

Took the ZL1 board home last night but didn't get a chance to mess with it.
I did check the resistance of the G8 sender and the Camaro sender
Both looked to be the same real quick.
40 ohms - 240 ohms so that is a good sign that we might not have to even switch them. I'll do more checking this weekend



I'll see if I can find out for you.

Cool, thanks man!

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Here you go Shane. I got the pump pulled
Looks like 4.75"
http://paceperformance.com/files/grrrr8.net/pump/zl1pump3.JPG

[shane]

More pics of the pump top and bottom please...

[MaxPower]

Here Greg, I'll rephrase that for you...


Thanks greg for taking the time out to do all this!! If you wouldnt mind, I could use More pics of the pump top and bottom please...


lol

[STL_G8GT]

Here Greg, I'll rephrase that for you...




lol

Haha nice. Yes, thanks Greg!!!

[shane]

I thank greg by buying parts from him lol

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Well I left the pump at work so it will have to wait until Monday :)

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Just for you Jeff ;)
Top
http://paceperformance.com/files/grrrr8.net/pump/zl1pump4.JPG

Bottom
http://paceperformance.com/files/grrrr8.net/pump/zl1pump5.JPG

[shane]

interesting...

[G8-4-Speed]

The ZL1 pump is the exact pump used in the Caprice PPV. Why? My guess is because of the flex fuel capibility. The Caprice uses a differnt tank part number and now has PWM fuel pumps.
I ordered the ZL1 pump in when it was announced at SEMA. Looked at it and decided I would rathaer use the CTS-V dual pump instead, but it is about 2x the price.
I don't know if our cross over siphon tube is the same size as the ZL1 pump or the CTS-V pump (both have differnt size fittings), but that could be fixed pretty easily with an adapter.
I do know they will drop in and seal to our tank. They are the correct height to function properly also.


So, basically get a ZL1 pump, wiring it straight with a new plug and don't even mess with PWM. Run a ZL1 sending unit and recal, fix the line hookups. Upgrade complete minus retuning for the higher fuel pressure.
Is the crossover line on the G8 going to work on the ZL1? Never read if it was definitely different. Couldn't be too hard to adapt something.

[STL_G8GT]

So, basically get a ZL1 pump, wiring it straight with a new plug and don't even mess with PWM. Run a ZL1 sending unit and recal, fix the line hookups. Upgrade complete minus retuning for the higher fuel pressure.
Is the crossover line on the G8 going to work on the ZL1? Never read if it was definitely different. Couldn't be too hard to adapt something.

I am trying to help greg with this. Think we found an inexpensive (not a hack job) solution for zl1 pump harness (different than g8 plug), greg has an idea on keeping pressure at 58 internally (no external fpr), the crossover tube will need a fitting adapter (3/8" to 7/16" or so, working on it... greg thinks doable for about $30). The level sender reads the same resistance across the range of travel, also... so not sure that even needs to change...

Rick, if you've got additional questions, shoot greg a PM.

[MaxPower]

Anyone want to buy a Squash dual-pumper setup? lol

Just kidding. Seriously. Love the head-room I've got with the dual Aeromotive 340's, but this is a FANTASTIC option for those who will max out around 650 WHP or so.

Great work to all!

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

Whoa ouch!

Andy


Anyone want to buy a Squash dual-pumper setup? lol

Just kidding. Seriously. Love the head-room I've got with the dual Aeromotive 340's, but this is a FANTASTIC option for those who will max out around 650 WHP or so.

Great work to all!

[Greg@PacePerformance]

After looking at the insides of my pump I like the looks of Andys the best. I think he has the best solution out there, and pair that with his PWM option to keep the heat down. That is a winner.

[MaxPower]

Whoa ouch!

Andy

lol. RELAX Andy. I wouldnt get rid of my dual-pump setup. Soon enough the car will see more than 700WHP, and there's no way a ZL1 pump will be enough.

[y2kws6]

I am trying to help greg with this. Think we found an inexpensive (not a hack job) solution for zl1 pump harness (different than g8 plug), greg has an idea on keeping pressure at 58 internally (no external fpr), the crossover tube will need a fitting adapter (3/8" to 7/16" or so, working on it... greg thinks doable for about $30). The level sender reads the same resistance across the range of travel, also... so not sure that even needs to change...

Rick, if you've got additional questions, shoot greg a PM.


Big thumbs up to STL_G8GT and Greg for getting this info together. It would be a really good option for guys that aren't shooting for the stars but need an upgrade over stock.

[G8-4-Speed]

What type of connector is the one for the ZL1? http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/index.php/cPath/109

[STL_G8GT]

What type of connector is the one for the ZL1? http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/index.php/cPath/109

Thanks Rick... we found the camaro plug, its delphi, but the male g8 plug simply doesn't exist. Its a one off female, but the don't make the male counterpart. Repin or cut and solder... we're looking at both right now.

[slow02gt]

im really interested in this pump..when yall get it all figured out shoot me a pm with a price if yall come out with a kit to make it all work or with some detailed instructions or something... i will gladely be the test dumby on my g8...want to get ride of this damn BAP...

it should hold me just fine till im ready to build a motor in a year or so...

[G8-4-Speed]

The Camaro plug number works correct? 19178089 same plug on vetts and most 2009-2012 GM v-8 vehicles
Buyer's Guide: ACDELCO 19178089 Fuel Pump Connector


BUICK

ENCLAVE

(2008 - 2011)



CADILLAC

CTS

(2008 - 2012)



CADILLAC

ESCALADE

(2007 - 2012)



CADILLAC

SRX

(2010 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

AVALANCHE

(2007 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

CAMARO

(2010 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

CORVETTE

(2009 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

SILVERADO 1500

(2007 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

SILVERADO 2500 HD

(2007 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

SILVERADO 3500 HD

(2007 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

SONIC

2012



CHEVROLET

SUBURBAN 1500

(2007 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

SUBURBAN 2500

(2007 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

TAHOE

(2007 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

TRAVERSE

(2009 - 2012)



CHEVROLET

VOLT

2011



GMC

ACADIA

(2007 - 2012)



GMC

SIERRA 1500

(2007 - 2012)



GMC

SIERRA 2500 HD

(2007 - 2012)



GMC

SIERRA 3500 HD

(2007 - 2012)



GMC

SIERRA DENALI

(2007 - 2010)



GMC

YUKON

(2007 - 2012)



GMC

YUKON XL 1500

(2007 - 2012)



GMC

YUKON XL 2500

(2007 - 2012)



SATURN

OUTLOOK

(2007 - 2010)

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Rick that is not the correct number. That is the connector for the control module it is a 38 way female.

13585475 connector w/o leads
or I think
19178173 w/leads

[blue-mayhem]

I found the 19178173, but not the 13585475... Are you sure this is the right one? I can't find a picture of the connector no where. I'm really thinking about buying the ZL1 pump and trying to figure it out also. I found out that some of the pumps come with a fuel sending unit and some don't... Greg can you get the one that comes with the pump or can we just use our G8 sending unit some how. Thanks again for helping us out.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

13585475 is the correct part but it is not available yet.

13579899 - w/o level sensor - $251.55
19258436 - w/Level sensor - $249.95

The G8 level sensor will not work on the ZL1 module. Plus it doesn't make sense price wise.

[blue-mayhem]

13585475 is the correct part but it is not available yet.

13579899 - w/o level sensor - $251.55
19258436 - w/Level sensor - $249.95

The G8 level sensor will not work on the ZL1 module. Plus it doesn't make sense price wise.

Yeah that doesn't make sense price wise... I will be getting one from you pretty soon if you have some in stock. I found some guys that are making wiring harnesses for the f-body so they can use the 5th gen Camaro pumps... I just wrote them to see what they are using for the connector and see if they can help us out.

[MIEngineer]

13585475 is the correct part but it is not available yet.

13579899 - w/o level sensor - $251.55
19258436 - w/Level sensor - $249.95

The G8 level sensor will not work on the ZL1 module. Plus it doesn't make sense price wise.

I've seen them do odd things with prices on parts before.

Get one while they are cheap[er] ;)

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Hello gents,

I hope I'm not stepping on toes here by discussing and referencing information as a non-sponsor. If so, please delete.

I've been testing the Camaro LS3 and ZL1, and the CTS-V fuel modules for a while. Here's some info I hope you find helpful.

The poppet valve in both the Camaro modules starts to bypass at 88psi. At that pressure the flowrate is very low. So, to get to the GM rated 65psi there needs to be a bunch of pressure loss, but it's sweet-spot is 58psi. It's not a very elegant way to get it done. Adding an external FPR is a pain since the return really should go into the fuel module reservoir.

The LS3 module can be easily converted to 58psi using a VaporWorx fuel pressure regulator adapter and a 4th-gen Camaro FPR. See here http://vaporworx.com/mechanical_systems.htm

Though the ZL1 fits in the same hole as the LS3, uses a very similar lower reservoir assembly, and the same poppet valve, there are problems when trying to adapt the 4th-gen regulator. The ZL1 and CTS-V modules both require 18amps at 13.5 volts. That's 240 watts of heat being added to the fuel load at cruise/idle. This can lead to boiling, vapor lock, pump failure, etc. That's why GM went to PWM, it gives the pump a dual personallity.

Fitting either the CTS-V or ZL1 modules to the G8 does not look to be a problem besides the fuel level gauge. The G8 sensor looks a lot like the CTS-V setup. If someone can post photos of the side of the module without the sensor mounted I can compare to the CTS-V. Also, does the G8 fuel sensor wiring route through the module hat?

I am already selling stand-alone PWM kits that drive all three modules. Info here http://vaporworx.com/speed_control_systems.htm The only thing needed from the ECM is a turn on signal (+), which can also come from IGN +. Making custom wiring harnesses for any of the modules is also offered using OE Delphi plugs, seals, GXL wiring, etc.

One thing to consider is that the CTS-V pump is a much better part than the ZL1. If given a choice I'd choose the CTS-V, especially if the fuel level sensor fit.

Questions? Please fire away.

[blue-mayhem]

Hello gents,

I hope I'm not stepping on toes here by discussing and referencing information as a non-sponsor. If so, please delete.

I've been testing the Camaro LS3 and ZL1, and the CTS-V fuel modules for a while. Here's some info I hope you find helpful.

The poppet valve in both the Camaro modules starts to bypass at 88psi. At that pressure the flowrate is very low. So, to get to the GM rated 65psi there needs to be a bunch of pressure loss, but it's sweet-spot is 58psi. It's not a very elegant way to get it done. Adding an external FPR is a pain since the return really should go into the fuel module reservoir.

The LS3 module can be easily converted to 58psi using a VaporWorx fuel pressure regulator adapter and a 4th-gen Camaro FPR. See here http://vaporworx.com/mechanical_systems.htm

Though the ZL1 fits in the same hole as the LS3, uses a very similar lower reservoir assembly, and the same poppet valve, there are problems when trying to adapt the 4th-gen regulator. The ZL1 and CTS-V modules both require 18amps at 13.5 volts. That's 240 watts of heat being added to the fuel load at cruise/idle. This can lead to boiling, vapor lock, pump failure, etc. That's why GM went to PWM, it gives the pump a dual personallity.

Fitting either the CTS-V or ZL1 modules to the G8 does not look to be a problem besides the fuel level gauge. The G8 sensor looks a lot like the CTS-V setup. If someone can post photos of the side of the module without the sensor mounted I can compare to the CTS-V. Also, does the G8 fuel sensor wiring route through the module hat?

I am already selling stand-alone PWM kits that drive all three modules. Info here http://vaporworx.com/speed_control_systems.htm The only thing needed from the ECM is a turn on signal (+), which can also come from IGN +. Making custom wiring harnesses for any of the modules is also offered using OE Delphi plugs, seals, GXL wiring, etc.

One thing to consider is that the CTS-V pump is a much better part than the ZL1. If given a choice I'd choose the CTS-V, especially if the fuel level sensor fit.

Questions? Please fire away.

Thanks Carl for helping us out... I found one picture from 20lbbooster. Hopefully someone else has some more pictures of the pump out. Also see post #30. 13786

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Saw those blue but a photo without the sensor and finger would be helpful. If someone has a G8 fuel sensor I can trial-fit it on to the CTS-V reservoir. Both the CTS-V and G8 modules appear to be Bosch designs (very nice).

Does the fuel level sensor wiring run through the module hat?

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Carl,
I am the one that was sending you emails a few months back about the G8 system.
I have a CTS-V pump here along with my G8 module and the ZL1 module at work.
The CTS-V bucket is very similer to the G8 piece.

Yes the G8 level sensor goes into the hat much like the Camaro module. So if you repined the connectors it would work great. Crossover tube is the same size also that is a major plus.
I'm sure you could wire both pumps into to run off of one set of pins and run the level sensor off of the other two.

Here is a picture of the G8 level sensor snapped onto the V module
http://paceperformance.com/files/grrrr8.net/pump/cts-vg8.jpg

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

Just to be clear the V module and the G8 module have the same diameter crossover nipple (the bucket is pretty much the same) but the Camaro one is smaller... At least that's what I've found.

Andy

[blue-mayhem]

This is the guy I emailed the other day also and he wrote me back about the same thing he mentioned in his first post... I was going to call him, but Greg you know a lot more about these setups then me. He also said he could make a wiring harness, but he needs a little more info then what I have. I haven't pulled my stock pump out yet.

[shane]

So what exactly do you need to see?

I got pics here
http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=28068

[shane]

And sorry greg i haven't sent the regulator to you yet been crazy around here with getting the car running.

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Hey Greg!

All four of the cavities on the CTS-V are for power. The two outboard are for pumps +, the two inner pumps -. They cannot be run independently. They are tied to a common manifold, so if one pump is not running it becomes a leak.

The trick is going to be in the splicing. If you guys want to have the fuel level sensor wiring thought the hat then the pump power will need to be spliced together. In other words, power for both pumps will need to go through one plug on the bottom of the hat, so both pump (+) wires (red and blue in Greg's photo above) to the cavity where the red wire is now, and both black (-) wires to the black wire next to the pump (+).

The other two cavities are for the fuel level sensor. The far outboard is signal, the one next to the pump (-) the sensor ground. So, from Greg's photo above, working from the visible side of the module connector toward the computer screen:

Pump(s) +
Pump(s) -
Fuel level sensor (-)
Fuel level sensor (output)

Here's what I believe would be the best way to do this. The wiring for each pump is fine for a single pump, but is lacking for twins. So, make a new wire with a heavier gauge wire with the correct terminal to fit the black Delphi plug on the underside of the hat in Greg's photo. Make this wire about an inch long from the plug. Crimp a butt connector on to the end. Strip the ends of the wires from each pump and crimp on to the other end of the butt connector. Use shrink tubing and/or butt connector insulation that is fuel rated. Now the wiring is of sufficient gauge size.

In this arrangement it is highly recommended to use a PWM to bring down the average power running through the connector. I believe that the terminals for the CTS-V plug are rated for 25amps, but that's a lot of continuous power, and at 74psi, the bypass pressure of the CTS-V module, the power requirement is pushing the upper limit of the terminal. Also, terminals always work worse over time, never better, so there is a power loss as well.

If there is interest in going down this road can investigate the terminal(s) needed to make this work. It seems that using the CTS-V module is the logical choice given the difficulty of finding a way to make the fuel level sensor and cross-over tube work on the ZL1. Hassle factor vs. cost.

[blue-mayhem]

Alright so a CTS-V pump would be the best bet... now for the connector. Would one of these connectors work CONN-95253 or CONN-100324 on the site that Rick posted. http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/index.php/cPath/109_130_134/sort/5a/page/2

[Greg@PacePerformance]

No none of those connectors are correct. It needs to be a GT280 connector I think.
The 95253 is very close but not correct.
STL_G8GT has found the correct connector and terminals and I have verified fitment. I just need to find the correct metri-pack seals for the wires.

[blue-mayhem]

No none of those connectors are correct. It needs to be a GT280 connector I think.
The 95253 is very close but not correct.
STL_G8GT has found the correct connector and terminals and I have verified fitment. I just need to find the correct metri-pack seals for the wires.

Alright please let me know when ever you definitely find out which one it is.

[blue-mayhem]

Hey Greg!

All four of the cavities on the CTS-V are for power. The two outboard are for pumps +, the two inner pumps -. They cannot be run independently. They are tied to a common manifold, so if one pump is not running it becomes a leak.

The trick is going to be in the splicing. If you guys want to have the fuel level sensor wiring thought the hat then the pump power will need to be spliced together. In other words, power for both pumps will need to go through one plug on the bottom of the hat, so both pump (+) wires (red and blue in Greg's photo above) to the cavity where the red wire is now, and both black (-) wires to the black wire next to the pump (+).

The other two cavities are for the fuel level sensor. The far outboard is signal, the one next to the pump (-) the sensor ground. So, from Greg's photo above, working from the visible side of the module connector toward the computer screen:

Pump(s) +
Pump(s) -
Fuel level sensor (-)
Fuel level sensor (output)

Here's what I believe would be the best way to do this. The wiring for each pump is fine for a single pump, but is lacking for twins. So, make a new wire with a heavier gauge wire with the correct terminal to fit the black Delphi plug on the underside of the hat in Greg's photo. Make this wire about an inch long from the plug. Crimp a butt connector on to the end. Strip the ends of the wires from each pump and crimp on to the other end of the butt connector. Use shrink tubing and/or butt connector insulation that is fuel rated. Now the wiring is of sufficient gauge size.

In this arrangement it is highly recommended to use a PWM to bring down the average power running through the connector. I believe that the terminals for the CTS-V plug are rated for 25amps, but that's a lot of continuous power, and at 74psi, the bypass pressure of the CTS-V module, the power requirement is pushing the upper limit of the terminal. Also, terminals always work worse over time, never better, so there is a power loss as well.

If there is interest in going down this road can investigate the terminal(s) needed to make this work. It seems that using the CTS-V module is the logical choice given the difficulty of finding a way to make the fuel level sensor and cross-over tube work on the ZL1. Hassle factor vs. cost.

I will most likely try in put a PWM on my CTS-V pump... I'm having problems with my stock fuel system boiling over when I'm pushing the car hard and the fuel system want hold pressure so I know a PWM would help with that.

[STL_G8GT]

I will most likely try in put a PWM on my CTS-V pump... I'm having problems with my stock fuel system boiling over when I'm pushing the car hard and the fuel system want hold pressure so I know a PWM would help with that.

How do you know its fuel boiling? A 2300 with stock pump and BAP is boiling fuel on stock l76 internals power levels? Guys with 1900s at your power level don't boil fuel... what gives??

[blue-mayhem]

How do you know its fuel boiling? A 2300 with stock pump and BAP is boiling fuel on stock l76 internals power levels? Guys with 1900s at your power level don't boil fuel... what gives??

Well when Rick was tuning it he had it almost dialed in and then on the last couple of data logs the AFR started getting really lean, So we hooked up a fuel pressure gauge and about 4000 rpm the fuel pressure was dropping into the low 40's... So I put a KB BAP on it and I have to say it helped, but it still seem it want hold pressure after I run the car at WOT a couple of times... It might just be I have a weak pump or it's about to give up on me. That's why I want to find a fix ASAP to see.

[Buford]

Subscribed.

[Crazy8]

Subscribed.

Me too

[G8-4-Speed]

How do you know its fuel boiling? A 2300 with stock pump and BAP is boiling fuel on stock l76 internals power levels? Guys with 1900s at your power level don't boil fuel... what gives??

The longer we tuned/drove the car, the leaner it was getting until it starter "laying-down" above 5000 rpm. It was the heat in the fuel system combined with fuel pressure drop. After the car sat overnight, it was fine. Had the exact same problem before with boosted G8's so it isn't something new. The BAP helped but is just enough. The biggest thing is the 12-13 psi boost with the 2300 which is pushing agaisnt the fuel which is already loosing pressure.

The PWM looks to be a "must" with a CTS-V or ZL1 pump. If you don't slow the pumps down, they will cook the fuel and cause other issues.

As for the sending unit, why can't the arm just be re-bent to get the gauge to read right if they operate at the same resistance?

For the CTS-V option, we are talking about using the whole pump assembly as a complete drop-in piece correct? if so, then why not just use and re-wire a CTS-v plug to the factory harmess?

Yes, the plug for the pump looks to be a 280 series plug but which one? The delphi catalog has way to many to guess....

[STL_G8GT]

Rick, check PM....

[blue-mayhem]

So what is the best route PWM to go with on a supercharged engine?

[shane]

someone needs to figure this out... i need MORE FUEL!

[Buford]

My tuner and his shop is getting my car next week and will try his hand at it.

[blue-mayhem]

Only thing we are waiting on is for Carl to make us a wiring harness for the PWM setup. You don't have to run one, but is highly recommend. Also they're trying to do a group buy on the PWM setup so if anyone is interest let Greg know... We need at least 5 people. I will be getting the CTS-V pump from Greg in a couple of days.

[Carl@Vaporworx]

I need to know details about how the wiring from the fuel module to the controller will be routed. Greg is working on part of it, but his may be a bit different than some since he has a hole cut in the body for access, so....

1) The main power harness is usually made in two pieces. The first attaches to the fuel module (four-pin Delphi module plug) and the other end has typically has another four-pin Delphi GT280 plug. This harness typically stays with the tank during R&R in order to reduce the chances of module damage. The GT280 plug should be located such that it is easy to get to and routes well. The second part of the harness has the mating GT280 plug, and the other end goes to the PWM controller. At some point this harness section passes through the body into the location where the PWM is located. I need the length of each harness

It may not be necessary to have a four-pin interconnection plug if the fuel level sensor wiring needs to route a different way. If that's the case, I need to know that so a different interconnection plug arrangement can be made, and a different fuel level sensor wiring connection.

Sorry for all of the questions, but it will make for a much better installation that you won't cuss at later due to a lack of serviceability. I'm also open to any suggestions that will make it better for your installation.

2) The fuel level wiring will need to tie into the factory wiring. Greg listed Light Blue and Purple as the two sensor wiring colors in the main G8 harness that go to the fuel level sensor. Which one goes where on the sensor?, and How long does the wiring from the module plug need to be to tie into the factory wiring harness?

The PWM controller will not use the power from the factory harness. It needs to connect directly to the battery with the leads as short as practical. The PWM will need to have a + signal to turn on, and if the ECM has this feature (most do) to turn on the fuel pump relay then this is ideal from a safety standpoint. In stock form the ECM shuts down the fuel system after a few seconds when it does not sense engine rotation. So, tie into the fuel relay/ECM + input and use this to turn the PWM controller on/off.

As a point of referance: Today was the first time my car has been timed on a 1/4-mile since 1984. The launch area was not prep'ed at all, and the car is set up for road-course duty. At 3750# with driver it ran 121mph. Theoretcially that's 520RWHP which comes close to the chassis dyno measured 490RWHP (Magnacharged TVS1900 @ 9lbs LS1.) Traction was non-existant, but the fuel was there. Zero problems using the same setup we're discussing. The track test should be available for reading in 2-3 weeks.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I'll send it again to you Carl.
I guess you didn't get my info.

Edit. Maybe you did get the PM since you got wire colors listed. :)
We have the fuel pump and level sensor on one plug that Y's into a second level sensor just like the Camaro. This harmess plugs into the harness I gave you the pin out for that is down above the tank. I tried to pull it up but it is a large 16 pin connector and won't budge with out dropping the tank.

Seems like the best option is to just include the plug for the pump module and we can splice in to the factory harness for the level sensor and pump turn-on signal.

4 pin pump connector with two flying leads for the level sensor, then your harness with a flying lead for the pump turn on wire would work.

I can take pics of how my setup is wired.

[blue-mayhem]

Yeah I think that's sounds like a plan Greg, because I plan on just cutting a hole right over the pump and changing it that way. It sounds like we will have to drop the whole tank to figure out the measurements and to put the wiring harness in. So for the CTS-V pump we'll have to splice the two + red and blue wires together and the - two grey wires together from the pumps to the connector that goes on the bottom of the fuel pump hat and then slice the wires that come from the fuel level sensor into the same bottom connector correct? Also I thought i seen the fuel level sensor wiring coming out of the pump were purple and a brown/yellow wires?

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Blue, you are correct. Wire the pumps together using a larger wire to accomadate the larger draw on the two terminals. The wire in the G8 level sensor to the V fuel hat.
Yes you are correct. The G8 harness is Gray Fuel Pump +, Black Fuel pump -, Purple for fuel level signal, and Brown/yellow for fuel level low reference.

Hope we can get this moving pretty soon. I know a few of you want to get this done ASAP before spring hits.

[y2kws6]

Blue, you are correct. Wire the pumps together using a larger wire to accomadate the larger draw on the two terminals. The wire in the G8 level sensor to the V fuel hat.
Yes you are correct. The G8 harness is Gray Fuel Pump +, Black Fuel pump -, Purple for fuel level signal, and Brown/yellow for fuel level low reference.

Hope we can get this moving pretty soon. I know a few of you want to get this done ASAP before spring hits.


Looking forward to this. I'm doing a cam in the next few months and would love to not have to worry about fuel pressure anymore. I have a BAP but I know its a band aid.

[norm8332]

Subscribed.

[Carl@Vaporworx]

After sleeping on it.....

Fuel module connector:
12ga red goes to pumps +
12ga black goes to pumps -
20ga brown goes to fuel level low referance (getting trace wiring is tough. I have 20ga brown GXL)
20ga purple goes to fuel level output.

Two flying leads from the module connector that will tie the fuel level sensor into the factory wiring harness. HOW LONG?

The two 12ga wires run to the PWM controller. I"ll make a third gray wire that ties into the factory pump +. This will turn on the controller but should stilll allow the safety feature mentioned. In this case a three-cavity interconnecting plug will be needed, if that's what you guys want to do???

So, wiring colors are good to go. Just need to know if you guys want the interconnecting plug short/long harness arrangement.

Greg or anyone: Any chance of having a telephone conversation? It would make some of this decision making a bunch easier.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

PM sent Carl. Need your number

[G8-4-Speed]

Should be able to tie the PMW wiring in at the fuel pump wiring back by the battery just like a BAP. So the PWM doesn't need much wire since it will be wired seperate from the pump. Much easier and cleaner this way without having to run extra wires from the pump into the car. Factory pump wiring is at least 12ga or 10ga already.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Might as well run the good wire to be sure because you will need to replace the connctor any way.
GM says the fuel pump wire is only 14ga going into the pump so it needs upgraded.

[slow02gt]

sounds like this is coming close:)

i need this lol

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Yes it is and it will be good. I got you on the list already :)

[shane]

There is a list?!?!??

I needed this like 3 days ago lol

[spider1701]

Greg, I might just be interested in this if it comes to fruition. Let me know here or my local board.

[y2kws6]

Is there a list?

[WickedMom]

What's the max hp this will support?


Sent from my insanely great iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Max hp should be around 900hp I think Carl told me awhile ago in an email that I can't find.
There is a list in my head of the number of people that are really interested. :)

[Kermit]

Subscribed!! Okay, I know what the BAP is (boost-A-pump) which I was told I did not need YET but what is the PWM?

[Crazy8]

Subscribed!! Okay, I know what the BAP is (boost-A-pump) which I was told I did not need YET but what is the PWM?

It's so easy to increase the boost on a supercharger, and if your like the rest of us, you'll get bored with 465 rwhp soon and need a fuel solution. :)

[rocket69GTP]

What's the price tag on this? Highly interested!!

[Greg@PacePerformance]

The price is TBA as of yet but the V pump module is sub 400.00

[It's A G8!]

subscribed.

[blue-mayhem]

Subscribed!! Okay, I know what the BAP is (boost-A-pump) which I was told I did not need YET but what is the PWM?

Read this... http://vaporworx.com/speed_control_systems.htm

[shane]

So 400 plus another 250 or so for the pump and you still have to modify it?

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Maximum horsepower depends on the amount of boost. The higher the boost, the lower the horsepower rating.

58psi, 13.5v input, 0.6BSFC, minimal fittings in the pressure line, 750-800fwhp should be OK and have a safety margin. Like anything when dealing with these horsepower and boost levels, it is wise to slowly approach the maximum power level while monitoring the fuel pressure and PWM output voltage to confirm that there is sufficient fuel volume. PWM duty cycle can be monitored by using two voltage meters, one on the controller input, and the other on the output. When the output equals the input then the controller will be at 100% duty cycle. After that the pressure loss is due to the pumps not being able to keep up with the fuel demand.

At idle the output voltage is about 6.5V.

The output voltage is not the true voltage. The true voltage is either zero or battery voltage. The output voltage is an average, but it's a very useful tuning tool.

Info on PWM here http://vaporworx.com/speed_control_systems.htm

Greg and I discussed the system this afternoon and I believe we are pretty close to having a workable kit for the G8 crowd. Stay tuned......

[Greg@PacePerformance]

So 400 plus another 250 or so for the pump and you still have to modify it?

Shane - We are looking sub $400.00 for the V module and then the magic number for the Vapor worx unit and harness.
You could use the less expensive ZL1 module but there are other changed that need made that the V module does not require.

[morpheousssv]

have an interest

[shane]

Shane - We are looking sub $400.00 for the V module and then the magic number for the Vapor worx unit and harness.
You could use the less expensive ZL1 module but there are other changed that need made that the V module does not require.

So rough idea on total price?

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Had some time to investigate options and needed components....

Based on the conversation with Greg earlier here's what we're looking at

A complete VaporWorx FlowWorx PWM kit. It will include everything needed to operate the CTS-V fuel module.

The fuel pressure sensor will need an 1/8"-NPT thread somewhere on the pressure side of the fuel system. The harness for this is standard 15', so if it can go near the module that would work well since it seems the PWM controller will mount near the battery in the trunk. The harness is a three-conductor armored Teflon cable and comes with the fuel pressure sensor plug already attached.

So, here's the G8-specific components.

1) The main power feed, 12ga GXL, from the PWM to the fuel pump will be 15' long. It will have the correct Delphi fuel module power connector already attached. The other end will need to be cut to length and ring terminals crimped on (supplied.)

2) Combined with the above will be a 20ga GXL gray wire. This wire will eventually tie into the OE fuel harness for the fuel pump +. It will act as the turn-on circuit. It will be 15' long so that it can route along the length of the power harness to the fuel module.

3) A 4" long brown 20ga GXL and 4" long purple 20ga GXL wire will be attached to the fuel module power plug. Each of these wires, along with the grey wire from (2), will tie into a three-cavity small Molex plug.

4) 4' long gray, brown, and purple wires will tie into a mating three-cavity Molex plug from (3). This will allow for easier servicing.

5) The three wires from (4) will need to be spliced into the original G8 wiring. Gray to pump power, brown to brown/yellow, and purple to purple.

6) A 2" 12ga red GXL and a 2" 12ga black GXL will be supplied for the plug on the bottom of the fuel module. The wires will have the correct terminals to fit the plugs on the CTS-V module hat. The terminals can be removed from the CTS-V plugs by first removing the terminal position assurance clip on the wire entry side of the plug, and then releasing the small tab on the face of the terminal. The 2" wires will also come with butt crimp connectors.

EDIT: Power wiring for under-hat will be green PTFE. It will be necessary to verify that the polarity is correct before final crimping.

There will need to be some modifications to the fuel lines. For those of you that already have AN lines, or are going that route, a Russell 644120 works very well to convert the 3/8" quick-connect to male AN6. You also may find it easiest to put the fuel pressure sensor near here using a male-male union with a 1/8"-NPT thread on the side. It is imperative that the fuel module nipple not be subjected to excessive strain. I've had two customers break the CTS-V outlet connector when trying to tighten a leaky AN fitting. The hose twisted and placed side loads on the connector. There is a fix for it, but it's $165. Just be careful.

Greg, if I missed something, please add/correct as needed.

The complete kit is $499 + shipping and CA sales tax if applicable.

Questions? Please fire away.

[rocket69GTP]

Sounds like a really good deal and alternative to what is out there now. Think I would feel more comfortable with a professional installing this though ;)

[MIEngineer]

So it is about a thousand dollars with a pump, this kit and shipping, and any small misc stuff.

[wreckwriter]

So it is about a thousand dollars with a pump, this kit and shipping, and any small misc stuff.

Which would be about the same as the other options. There's no cheap way to do this, doubt there ever will be.

[blue-mayhem]

Had some time to investigate options and needed components....

Based on the conversation with Greg earlier here's what we're looking at

A complete VaporWorx FlowWorx PWM kit. It will include everything needed to operate the CTS-V fuel module.

The fuel pressure sensor will need an 1/8"-NPT thread somewhere on the pressure side of the fuel system. The harness for this is standard 15', so if it can go near the module that would work well since it seems the PWM controller will mount near the battery in the trunk. The harness is a three-conductor armored Teflon cable and comes with the fuel pressure sensor plug already attached.

So, here's the G8-specific components.

1) The main power feed, 12ga GXL, from the PWM to the fuel pump will be 15' long. It will have the correct Delphi fuel module power connector already attached. The other end will need to be cut to length and ring terminals crimped on (supplied.)

2) Combined with the above will be a 20ga GXL gray wire. This wire will eventually tie into the OE fuel harness for the fuel pump +. It will act as the turn-on circuit. It will be 15' long so that it can route along the length of the power harness to the fuel module.

3) A 4" long brown 20ga GXL and 4" long purple 20ga GXL wire will be attached to the fuel module power plug. Each of these wires, along with the grey wire from (2), will tie into a three-cavity small Molex plug.

4) 4' long gray, brown, and purple wires will tie into a mating three-cavity Molex plug from (3). This will allow for easier servicing.

5) The three wires from (4) will need to be spliced into the original G8 wiring. Gray to pump power, brown to brown/yellow, and purple to purple.

6) A 2" 12ga red GXL and a 2" 12ga black GXL will be supplied for the plug on the bottom of the fuel module. The wires will have the correct terminals to fit the plugs on the CTS-V module hat. The terminals can be removed from the CTS-V plugs by first removing the terminal position assurance clip on the wire entry side of the plug, and then releasing the small tab on the face of the terminal. The 2" wires will also come with butt crimp connectors.

There will need to be some modifications to the fuel lines. For those of you that already have AN lines, or are going that route, a Russell 644120 works very well to convert the 3/8" quick-connect to male AN6. You also may find it easiest to put the fuel pressure sensor near here using a male-male union with a 1/8"-NPT thread on the side. It is imperative that the fuel module nipple not be subjected to excessive strain. I've had two customers break the CTS-V outlet connector when trying to tighten a leaky AN fitting. The hose twisted and placed side loads on the connector. There is a fix for it, but it's $165. Just be careful.

Greg, if I missed something, please add/correct as needed.

The complete kit is $499 + shipping and CA sales tax if applicable.

Questions? Please fire away.

Is this the group buy price Carl? Also the CTS-V pump will flow at 65 psi at WOT right?

[STL_G8GT]

Which would be about the same as the other options. There's no cheap way to do this, doubt there ever will be.

You know, that's really what we've found.

You can make the ZL1 pump work with some adapters, etc, and that would be sub $500. The problem is that it would be a straight 13v. We're not worried so much about cooking the fuel as we are beating the hell out of the pump. Running a dc motor and pump assembly designed for pwm operation at 13v is like constantly running at wot. Sure the car can handle it, the first few passes are amazing, but you get late in the day, or the end of the road trip, the engine would just be worn out. That's a lot of heat generated, and a lot of operation on the ragged edge.

The PWM system adds factory oem reliability in theory, while using stock lines, etc.

This is the direction I will go, and I look forward to being able to speak to ability of this system.

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Yes on the group buy price.

The pump will flow all the way up to 74psi, but the flowrate goes way down. The sweet spot of the pump is 58-60psi. Your power level is almost identical to what I'm making with 60lb/hr injectors and 58psi constant.

[slow02gt]

so can it not be ran with the stock lines?

it went from just dropping it in and using a harness and splicing a few things to needing lines and stuff? i just want to get rid of this damn BAP lol...

[STL_G8GT]

so can it not be ran with the stock lines?

it went from just dropping it in and using a harness and splicing a few things to needing lines and stuff? i just want to get rid of this damn BAP lol...

You can use your stock lines. All you would be adding is an AN adapter and then a fitting for the fuel pressure gauge.

Trust me, I wish it was more simple, but I just don't feel comfortable dropping a pump in and not knowing if it will last more than 5k miles... and WHEN it will go...

[shane]

I already had a Fuel pressure gauge on the rail... so i don't think ill be needing that.

[STL_G8GT]

I already had a Fuel pressure gauge on the rail... so i don't think ill be needing that.

Shit not gauge, fuel pressure sensor.... the sensor signal hits the signal smoother and then on to the pwm controller...

[Carl@Vaporworx]

The fuel pressure sensor needs a female 1/8"-NPT to screw in to. It can be on the fuel rail if that is easier. If that is the case, would 15' of wire be enough, or would more be needed?

EDIT: Fuel pressure sensor must be mounted near the outlet of the fuel pump and not on the fuel rail.

[TooManyHobbies]

Now I need to price out the other options, was a bit more than expected.

[blue-mayhem]

The fuel pressure sensor needs a female 1/8"-NPT to screw in to. It can be on the fuel rail if that is easier. If that is the case, would 15' of wire be enough, or would more be needed?

I think that would be long enough.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I planned on putting the fitting right at the pump for the sensor.
Pump -> AN quick connect -> fuel pressure sensor fitting -> AN braided line -> quick connect to stock metal line
It should work perfect like this, and you wouldn't need any extra runs to the engine.

[blue-mayhem]

I planned on putting the fitting right at the pump for the sensor.
Pump -> AN quick connect -> fuel pressure sensor fitting -> AN braided line -> quick connect to stock metal line
It should work perfect like this, and you wouldn't need any extra runs to the engine.

That what I think I'm going to do... Just need to know what fitting I'll need. I'm going to mount the controller where my BAP is right now because I can just use the + fuel pump wire where I had the BAP hooked up for the PWM controller.

[slow02gt]

500 bucks is the hook up price on the harness? hell i would hate to see what regular price was but you make as well just go with a dual return setup and it would probably come out cheaper lol.....

greg if you can work out a total price with everything needed pump,harness,PWM,fittings,etc and some good instructions shoot me a pm with it or the round about price that should be pretty damn close...

[STL_G8GT]

500 bucks is the hook up price on the harness? hell i would hate to see what regular price was but you make as well just go with a dual return setup and it would probably come out cheaper lol.....

greg if you can work out a total price with everything needed pump,harness,PWM,fittings,etc and some good instructions shoot me a pm with it or the round about price that should be pretty damn close...

You certainly could do return style. The money would probably be just a bit higher. Each system has benefits... that's the beauty of it being your car... you can do what you want. :D

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

Carl, what is the current capacity of the PWM module? Have you tried driving two Aeromotive 340's with it, or anything other than the GM pumps?

Andy

[STL_G8GT]

Carl, what is the current capacity of the PWM module? Have you tried driving two Aeromotive 340's with it, or anything other than the GM pumps?

Andy

Let's see... custom machined fuel hat, dual 340s, pwm control to 58psi, upgrade stock line for flow, no return lines, no heat issues... oh myyyyyyyy....

[STL_G8GT]

Carl, what is the current capacity of the PWM module? Have you tried driving two Aeromotive 340's with it, or anything other than the GM pumps?

Andy

I believe the ctsv pumps can draw upwards or 18amps at full tilt... the delphi connector is rated at 25 amps. Andy what do the aero's pull at full boogie?

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

I believe the ctsv pumps can draw upwards or 18amps at full tilt... the delphi connector is rated at 25 amps. Andy what do the aero's pull at full boogie?

They are supposed to pull about 18 amps each at max output but I can't remember exactly what I measured them at. They pull more than Walbros that's for sure.

I tested the contacts I'm using on my fuel hat and they were fine at 30 amps, and each pump is wired separately, so that's not an issue. I wonder if the GM contacts are 25 amps continuous or how they rate them? That also doesn't mean the module will work at that level at all. It would be fun to try to let the smoke out of one :)

Andy

[y2kws6]

I'm interested in this setup. What kind of time frame are we talking about?

[Carl@Vaporworx]

I have not tried running the 340 or twin 340's yet, so I can't say yay or nay to if they will work with the PWM without testing them. I can test them if someone has that setup. The controller can handle 40A continuous so it should be able to handle twin 340's, but at that power level the long-term reliability of a single friction/slide type contact is not good. At those power levels a stud is typically used.

[STL_G8GT]

I have not tried running the 340 or twin 340's yet, so I can't say yay or nay to if they will work with the PWM without testing them. I can test them if someone has that setup. The controller can handle 40A continuous so it should be able to handle twin 340's, but at that power level the long-term reliability of a single friction/slide type contact is not good. At those power levels a stud is typically used.

The aero stealth series are pwm compatible...

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I'm interested in this setup. What kind of time frame are we talking about?

Carl should have a demo unit done next week to check fitment.

I have a V pump here ready to go. I can do a braided line from the pump to stock metal line for about $50.00 and that includes a pre-made hose so you won't have to do any f'n around with putting hose ends on.
This is a good PTFE braided hose. I would also include the required fuel pressure sender fitting.

[blue-mayhem]

Carl should have a demo unit done next week to check fitment.

I have a V pump here ready to go. I can do a braided line from the pump to stock metal line for about $50.00 and that includes a pre-made hose so you won't have to do any f'n around with putting hose ends on.
This is a good PTFE braided hose. I would also include the required fuel pressure sender fitting.

Greg where is the metal line at? Can you get to it just by cutting the hole over the pump?

[Greg@PacePerformance]

The metal line is just under the passenger rear door.
I had my car up on a jack last night and could have installed it on my back. I need to double check the length tonight then I should be 99% set on knowing what is needed.

[STL_G8GT]

Any concerns with stainless braid resting against plastic fuel bucket? Stainless hose likes to eat through things....

[Greg@PacePerformance]

It doesn't really rest on the bucket. It will lay on the fuel tank.
I havent noticed any issues with my braided line but I will look close tonight.

The line I am including is coated so there will not be an issue. ;)

[Carl@Vaporworx]

The aero stealth series are pwm compatible...

Yes, but without testing I would not feel comfortable trusting that it would work. It gets a bit more complicated when dealing with PWM and how the components interact than a traditional return system, especially at low duty cycles.

I've got thousands of miles on the CTS-V and Camaro LS3 modules on the street and track, and so far the bench testing has matched the in-car performance. Without doing both it's a shot in the dark that is not worth taking, IMO.

[polo]

This is an awesome thread! I've been watching it from the beginning and i'm amazed at how this turned from a simple question to potential new fuel solution.

I was wondering what Greg had up his sleeve when he was talking about selling the Lonnie's fuel pump setup he had in his car. Good luck!

[MaxPower]

The metal line is just under the passenger rear door.
I had my car up on a jack last night and could have installed it on my back. I need to double check the length tonight then I should be 99% set on knowing what is needed.

It's just under 2' from what I remember - I used the stock feed as a return.

And you can easily fish the new line from the hole cutout under the back seat to under the car - just getting the old plastic line out of there without cutting it up is nearly impossible. I had to cut off the upper fitting to yank it out from underneath.

[shane]

Just drop the tank straps and the line can be put in and removed no issues...

[Greg@PacePerformance]

It's just under 2' from what I remember - I used the stock feed as a return.

And you can easily fish the new line from the hole cutout under the back seat to under the car - just getting the old plastic line out of there without cutting it up is nearly impossible. I had to cut off the upper fitting to yank it out from underneath.

You were spot on Jeff. I stuck a piece of -8 hose into place (along with my -8 and -6 hoses already) and a pre made hose would need to be about 20" if you are adding a few fittings to the pump end.

[BigV8]

Would it be worthwhile to use Andys lid on this and cap off the return fitting?

[STL_G8GT]

Would it be worthwhile to use Andys lid on this and cap off the return fitting?

There would not be a benefit to that today but would certainly set you up with room to grow...

[Greg@PacePerformance]

The benefit would be you are keeping the heat in the pumps and fuel down and not having to run an external regulator with Andys setup, but like Pete said gives you tons of overhead for the future.

[STL_G8GT]

I wanted to update everyone on where this project is.

You have a couple options, and ill cover them based on what greg and I explored.

1) Squash Performance custom fuel hat and hanger. I will let Andys work speak for itself, the research i've done has added a level of appreciation for what Andy has created for our platform. Return-based, Single or Dual pumps, wiring integration, AN fittings, your choice of reference for FPR, top notch tech support. Nuff said!

2) ZL1 pump. Will fit bucket, level sensor is same resistance range across full motion. You will need a fuel hat plug adapter, greg has part numbers and can get you set on that. You would need the 4th gen camaro fpr, and a fpr adapter from vaporworx. Lastly, you will need a 7/16s quick fitting adapter to allow you to connect the crossover tube. This system would push 58psi all day, but would certainly be somewhat susceptible to heat. I don't believe fuel heat to be an issue, as this is a returnless system, more of pump inefficiencies because its running at full speed all the time. Heat kills motors. Total cost in $400 range.

3) vaporworx pwm kit referenced via fuel pressure. This can be used with the ZL1 module or CTS-V module. The V is much more plug and play. Pulse-width modulation basically controls fuel pressure via starting and stopping the pumps at various intervals (frequencies)... the result is a pump that only goes full power (shorter time between start/stop) under heavy throttle application. Naturally the pump consumes less power at idle, and typically has longer life. (Oems are going this direction, even though they have to add the cost of pwm controllers to the car - warranty parts and service savings are the only way this makes sense.) Carls kit comes with all plugs necessary....including the fuel pressure sensor. The ctsv pumps would drop in, the zl1 would still need a crossover adapter. This will run you about 500+unit(250 to 400)+zl1 crossover tube adapter if necessary(40). Add 50 for the tank to hard line replacement line with fuel pressure fitting. This will keep the rails at 58psi, but will not adjust flow across the injector to offset boost.

4) vaporworx full 1:1 referenced pwm setup. Same as #2 but adds a Map sensor input to ensure that flow across the injector is close to 58 at all times. This is ideal for boosted applications. Add ~50 for this option.

5) vaporworx with andys fuel hanger/hat. This would be the deal. The only concern would be getting pumps that didn't overdraw the pwm unit. You'd need to check with carl. This would give you the ability to choose your own pumps (pwm-safe design required - aero 340s are according to aero). This would be a very potent design that would allow you great room to grow. 550+500+ your pump choice.

I told greg that I was lmfao about the fact that we were back to $1k. I know we looked to do this on a budget, but the more that we researched, read, explored, there really isn't a "budget" way to do this... not safely anyway. This car is my daily, and it has to last. The fuel system is integral to that, so I found myself continuing to explore these options to find the most safe, oem-like system out there. Regardless of the SIZABLE investment, I can't see a reason to skimp on fuel.

I hope this helps everyone, and again, I feel obligated to apologize for the costs involved.... but if you're going to do it, do it right.

Thanks Greg, Andy, and Carl for all of your help.

[Buford]

Thanks for doing the research. I sent my tuner all of this info posted so he doesn't recreate the wheel. I am dropping the car off Monday.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Very good gathering of all known so far. Might want to put an update in your OP so someone doesn't have to read 17 pages deep even if it is a great read. :)

[Carl@Vaporworx]

The frustrations you guys are having are the same as I had in 2007 when trying to get a decent fuel system for my 1968 Camaro. At least the CTS-V pump is a 99% drop in for the G8. Not so much for the earlier cars.

The test kit for Greg is complete minus the wiring for the underhat connections. Parts arrive mid-next week for that. The wiring and butt connectors are soaking in fuel for testing, but the butt connector insulation is nylon and the wire 12ga PTFE, so it's just a precaution to test and make sure there are no adverse reactions.

The first photo is the complete kit.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3456/dsc02487x.jpg

Here's a closeup of the fuel module plug and fuel level sensor/PWM turn on connections. The gray wire is the PWM turn on, the brown and purple the fuel level sensor. There's a 4' long pigtail that can be routed to where the connections into the G8 harness can be made.
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4848/dsc02489m.jpg

Here's a closeup of the module plug.
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1459/dsc02492d.jpg

Installation instructions are here, but a few G8 differences. The gray turn-on wire will tie into the single blue wire coming from the signal conditioning module, and the integration of the fuel level sensor. http://vaporworx.com/VaporWorx%20Fuel%20Pump%20Control%20System%20Insta llation%20Instructions.pdf

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Here's some info you guys may find helpful.

Yesterday some performance testing was done on a CTS-V module at elevated voltages. At these higher voltages the venturi pumps had a hard time keeping up with the main pumps demand. The CTS-V, like the stock G8, has twin venturi pumps, one for the crossover tube, and one in the reservoir body. When the voltage is 16v @60psi and only the reservoir body venturi pump is working (remote section of the tank empty) there is about 10 seconds of usable fuel in the reservoir. In this case the fuel level around the module is low enough that it cannot flow into the top of the reservoir.

So, what does this mean? First, if you big-power guys are using higher voltages be sure to have enough fuel in the tank so that the fuel level is higher than the reservior body. The factory venturi pumps were not designed to keep up with higher flowrates than what can be provided at 13.5v. Second, for those with a voltage booster now, you may be experiencing a fuel delivery problem when the fuel level is low and the voltage booster comes on. I have not tested the venturi pump performance in a stock G8 module, but it is possible that the fuel pressure could drop when higher voltages are used due to low fuel levels (no fuel running into the top of the reservoir) and the venturi pump in the module resevoir not being able to keep up.

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

I've done lots of testing with the G8 bucket and had to design my fuel system to work correctly with the stock venturi setup using two Aeromotive 340's at full bore. I don't know how it differs (if at all) from the V setup, but on the G8 when the venturi doesn't have fuel to suck from the other side the bucket still refills itself from about a 3/8" hole in the bottom of the bucket. The return side of the FPR (since it's outside the tank with mine) is plumbed so that it also fills the bucket. As long as you have some return flow the bucket stays full and the excess runs over the sides. The stock pressure regulator also returns fuel back into the bucket on the G8 to help keep it full, which I believe the V bucket won't do due to the PWM setup. The bypass on the G8 bucket will always be bypassing fuel since it doesn't use PWM (until the pump can't keep up) but I understand the V bypass is a higher pressure and shouldn't be bypassing anything under normal operation? I don't have a V bucket to mess with here though.

Andy

[Carl@Vaporworx]

There is no return flow on the CTS-V. The return on yours helps to keep it full. With twin 340's that a lot of fuel so there's likely a good return supply.

There are twin venturi pumps on the -V, one for the crossover and one on the main body. It looks very similar to the G8 from the previous photos. The equalization valve is also built in to the reservoir venturi pump, unlike the Camaro LS3 or ZL1 modules which have separate components.

We're talking big numbers here. From a practical standpoint it would be really hard to put that kind of power to the ground long enough to empty the module (at high voltage levels only) and keep the speed under Warp 9. Just keep a bit of extra fuel in the tank when it's time to make that kind of power just to be safe.

[Carl@Vaporworx]

The trial kit is on the way to Greg.

Basic Instructions for Modifying the CTS-V Cadillac Fuel Module for the G8 Pontiac.

ATTENTION:
Working with fuel is dangerous. It will hurt and kill you if proper safety and installation procedures are not followed. If you are unsure about how to perform any of the following procedures safely stop work immediately and get help from a qualified automotive technician.


1) During removal of the stock G8 fuel module is important to note which wires are used for the fuel level sensor. The wires from the wiring harness should be brown/yellow and purple. However, these are not the colors of the wires used for the fuel level sensor. Takes notes to which wire from the sensor lines up with the wire in the harness. For example, if the harness wire is purple, and it lines up to a red wire on the sensor, note that arrangement for both wires on the sensor.

2) Photo 1 shows the underside of a CTS-V module hat. Note that the plug on the right is black, and the other on the left grey. The black plug will be the pump power plug, the grey the fuel level sensor plug. Remove both of these plugs from the module hat by depressing the release tab and pulling the plug away from the hat.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6111/dsc02510c.jpg
Photo 1. Note the red and blue wires are Pump +, and the black wires Pump -.

3) The wiring will need to be removed from the plug bodies. In Photo 2 note the small blue Terminal Assurance Clip that has been removed. It can be removed by unclipping it from the aft end of the plug. Using a miniature screwdriver as shown, carefully pry back the small terminal lock tab just enough to get the terminal to release. DO NOT EXCESSIVELY PRY ON THE TERMINAL LOCK TAB. IT WILL BREAK. Remove all four wires from the plug bodies.
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7406/dsc02508gi.jpg
Photo 2. The terminal lock tab can be seen on the right-hand terminal in the position where the screwdriver is on the left-hand side. The wire removes from the back of the plug body /toward the wire.

4) Insert the two new green PTFE 12ga wires into the black plug body as shown in Photo 3. Note that the cavity to the right of the release tab is Pump +, and the other is Pump -. An audible click should occur when the terminal is properly inserted.
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9770/dsc02504yn.jpg
Photo 3. The Pump + is in the RH cavity, the Pump – in the left hand cavity. When the plug is put back into the module hat the Pump + will be on the farthest outboard terminal.

5) The TPA clip will need to be modified by removing material as shown in black in Photo 4. This is due to the increase in wire diameter. Install the TPA clip when complete.
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9671/dsc02503l.jpg
Photo 4. Remove the material from the TPA clip to clear the larger wire diameter.

6) Plug the black plug body with the new green wiring into the module hat as shown in Photo 5. Cut the blue and red wires accordingly so that they will not get entangled in the module during installation. Strip and insert both wires into the butt connector attached to the outboard cavity on the module plug. Crimp the wiring securely. Perform the same operation for the black wires and crimp them into the remaining butt connector.
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5074/dsc02501cl.jpg
Photo 5. Note that the colored wires go to the outboard module cavity and the black to the inboard. Crimp the connections securely. Nylon zip ties can also be used to keep wiring tidy.

7) Performing proceedures similar to above, remove the wiring terminals from the stock G8 fuel level sensor. Insert them into the grey plug body using your notes from Step 1. The outboard cavity is purple, the inboard brown/yellow. Photo 6 shows the top view of the module plug and the wiring placement. If the terminals from the stock G8 fuel level sensor do not fit the CTS-V plug body use the removed CTS-V terminals/wiring and splice using nylon insulated butt connectors.
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9315/dsc02511gv.jpg
Photo 6. From right-to-left will be Pump +, Pump -, FLS brown, FLS purple.
8) Test fit the fuel level sensor. Depress the module hat and check for wiring interference. Reroute wiring as needed to eliminate chaffing or points where mechanical damage may occur over time.
9) Install the CTS-V fuel module into the car. Insert the white four-cavity plug in the VaporWorx wiring harness into the fuel module.
10) Splice the grey wire in the VaporWorx harness into the G8 gray harness Pump + wire.
11) Splice the purple wire in the VaporWorx harness into the G8 purple fuel level sensor harness wire as noted in Step 1.
12) Splice the brown wire in the VaporWorx harness into the G8 brown/yellow fuel level sensor harness wire as noted in Step 1.
13) Follow the standard VaporWorx installation instructions to complete the FlowWorx fuel control system.

[blue-mayhem]

Nice... I can't wait to get mine.

[STL_G8GT]

Nice... I can't wait to get mine.

X2!!!

[Carl@Vaporworx]

No commitments needed from you guys, but I want to make sure that I can fill orders in a timely fashion.

So, in that light, the test unit is on the way to Greg so there should be a system up and running soon. If everything works the way it should how many of you are considering the group buy? With this I can better plan the assembly builds and part orders.

Again, no concrete commitments needed, down-payments, etc. I just need a rough estimate for planning.

[STL_G8GT]

Of course I'm in for one, with the map referenced option we discussed. 3bar. Will use ctsv pump module.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

The guys are that are wanting in on Carls offer can also pick up the V pump from me for $350.00 for a limited time, I can also supply all the required AN fittings and line.
Retail on that pump is $690.50 and we sell it for $445.36 everyday. And like Carl I have to order the pumps so would like to know about how many are interested.

[STL_G8GT]

the guys are that are wanting in on carls offer can also pick up the v pump from me for $350.00 for a limited time, i can also supply all the required an fittings and line.
Retail on that pump is $690.50 and we sell it for $445.36 everyday. And like carl i have to order the pumps so would like to know about how many are interested.

smoking deal....

[blue-mayhem]

Count me in for a V pump Greg and Carl I'm in for the PWM setup also... Not sure If I need the one with the map reference or not?

[y2kws6]

Im in.

[Carl@Vaporworx]

MAP referenced is more costly and difficult to put in since it needs to tie into the MAP output and ground. If you are already tuned for 58psi constant then I suggest staying with that since no ECM re-tuning would be needed.

[STL_G8GT]

Map referenced if you're forced induction. Not a necessity, but definitely worth the $50.

[slow02gt]

you know i in greg!!!

[TooManyHobbies]

I am in.

[morpheousssv]

Gregs got my number

[norm8332]

Maybe I missed it ( long thread) but what is the complete story on plumbing this pump?

[STL_G8GT]

Maybe I missed it ( long thread) but what is the complete story on plumbing this pump?

No one really knows stock hp limit if our fuel lines, or at least not that we've discussed here. Im having greg quote me a line swap to -8.

Minimum would be swapping the plastic line from pump to hardline near tank (near pass door). This also allows you to install the fitting for the pressure sensor.

Otherwise, with the v pumps, its a drop-in.

[Buford]

According to my shop, ZL1 pump is in place and should be running tomorrow. I'll post back one way or another.

[STL_G8GT]

According to my shop, ZL1 pump is in place and should be running tomorrow. I'll post back one way or another.

Awesome!!!!!

[Buford]

Car is on the dyno as we speak. Everything is running good. Plenty of room to grow now. $400 in total parts.

[blue-mayhem]

Car is on the dyno as we speak. Everything is running good. Plenty of room to grow now. $400 in total parts.

Awesome... Good to hear!!

[STL_G8GT]

Awesome... Good to hear!!

That kicks ass!!!

[Buford]

http://thespeedshopatfairwaychevrolet.blogspot.com/search/label/G8

If you have any questions, post them here and I'll relay to Sam to see if he has the answers for you guys.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Hope the pictures on that link are not correct because that is just a stock G8 fuel module.

[STL_G8GT]

Hope the pictures on that link are not correct because that is just a stock G8 fuel module.

Possible they fit the zl1 pump in the g8 bucket?

[Buford]

I have no clue either way. Sam is one of the best guys I know in the business. He's not shady at all. I'll get you the answers tomorrow.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Possible they fit the zl1 pump in the g8 bucket?

Nope buckets are not even close like the CTS-V. I think the V pumps would fit in the G8 bucket but that wouldn't help much.

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Thanks to Greg for working on fitment. New crimp-on terminals will be added to the kit for the fuel level sensor wiring to match the CTS-V plug. No splicing needed, though nylon insulated butt connectors will also be supplied for those that want to go that route instead.

[Buford]

Please clarify which picture you see that is the G8 pump? Yep, that's how much I know. It could be a "before" picture

[Darkmanx]

ok for someone who doesnt want to read 20 pages , which one of these options is the best Price to go with a return system to run e85?

[blue-mayhem]

Thanks to Greg for working on fitment. New crimp-on terminals will be added to the kit for the fuel level sensor wiring to match the CTS-V plug. No splicing needed, though nylon insulated butt connectors will also be supplied for those that want to go that route instead.

How much longer are we looking at Carl and Greg till everything's ready to go?

[hartigan85]

Please clarify which picture you see that is the G8 pump? Yep, that's how much I know. It could be a "before" picture

Would be awesome if we could get a list of parts used and a description of what was done. For $400 that would seem like the cheapest fuel pump solution.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I think Carl is pretty much ready. Just waiting on some supplies to arrive.
I am waiting of my AN connectors and line to arrive so I can get a test fit done then get qtys on order. Maybe another week for me.

[GenuineGM.com]

Hello this is Sam. I will post up all the part numbers tomorrow as I am at home. It is ALL GM parts and works like a champ. I updated the blog with a better picture of the tank before we reinstalled it.

Sam

[STL_G8GT]

Hello this is Sam from Fairway Chevrolet. I will post up all the part numbers tomorrow as I am at home. It is ALL GM parts and works like a champ. I updated the blog with a better picture of the tank before we reinstalled it.

Sam

Awesome... great work Sam!!!!!

[shane]

Nice!

[Greg@PacePerformance]

GM 19258436 ZL1 pump - $249.95
GM 19208723 Camaro fuel level sender - $54.18 (I would use 13501562 - 39.18) It may even have the correct top connector but I would have to order one in to check.
GM 92214170 Fuel Crossover pipe (in tank) - 23.60
GM 19257373 Fuel Pump and Fuel Sender Connectors (2 Required) - $22.46 ea

That is the list from the other board.

I would not use the 19257373 connector. I got one in from GM and although it is the correct connector they are all 18awg wire which is too small to power the ZL1 module for a long period of time. It needs to be atleast 14awg to be safe from melt down.
I would also switch the regulator to a 58psi unit so a retune is not needed which adds another $60.00 to the price after the $15.00 vaporworx adapter is used.
I would also upgrade the line running from the pump to the metal G8 line which is about $65.00 extra.

[Buford]

That is a must!!! The only thing we needed from the 19257373 connector was the plastic body.


Sam
This is what Sam said about that connector.

[GenuineGM.com]

GM 19258436 ZL1 pump - $249.95
GM 19208723 Camaro fuel level sender - $54.18 (I would use 13501562 - 39.18) It may even have the correct top connector but I would have to order one in to check.
GM 92214170 Fuel Crossover pipe (in tank) - 23.60
GM 19257373 Fuel Pump and Fuel Sender Connectors (2 Required) - $22.46 ea

That is the list from the other board.

I would not use the 19257373 connector. I got one in from GM and although it is the correct connector they are all 18awg wire which is too small to power the ZL1 module for a long period of time. It needs to be atleast 14awg to be safe from melt down.
I would also switch the regulator to a 58psi unit so a retune is not needed which adds another $60.00 to the price after the $15.00 vaporworx adapter is used.
I would also upgrade the line running from the pump to the metal G8 line which is about $65.00 extra.




The regulator is a good idea, if it works as planned, but I do not see the logic in upgrading an eighteen inch 3/8 fuel line that connects to a ten foot 3/8 line. What is that going to accomplish? Anyway I hope this helps some people that are on the edge of the G8's fuel system.

Sam

[shane]

I would also switch the regulator to a 58psi unit so a retune is not needed which adds another $60.00 to the price after the $15.00 vaporworx adapter is used.
.
Pics of the adapter? i have 2 stock g8 regulators...

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Here is a picture of the adapter from Carls site.
Shane you would need a 02 F-body regulator
13936

[Greg@PacePerformance]

The regulator is a good idea, if it works as planned, but I do not see the logic in upgrading an eighteen inch 3/8 fuel line that connects to a ten foot 3/8 line. What is that going to accomplish? Anyway I hope this helps some people that are on the edge of the G8's fuel system.

Sam
Your right about the line. I was thinking that the stock G8 line wouldn't reach at the correct angle to the Camaro module. I'll have to compare all 3 on my bench.

[shane]

Pics of the fbody regulator? i guess i really needed to order a pump assy first and go from there...

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Fbody reg
13937

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Are you guys wanting the Delphi plug, terminals, and seals for the ZL1 module? I can supply all of that if needed in raw component form or as a complete assembly with wiring attached. For the assembly I would need to know how long to make the wiring.

[GenuineGM.com]

Carl can you also get the Yaziki connector body?

[STL_G8GT]

Carl can you also get the Yaziki connector body?

Yakazi doesn't make a male connector for our stock plug at anything other than ridiculous pricing. The pain of not using delphi....

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Carl,
A standard 12" pigtail should be plenty. If you can supply them for about the same price as the GM unit that would be great. $25.00 ish

[GenuineGM.com]

Yakazi doesn't make a male connector for our stock plug at anything other than ridiculous pricing. The pain of not using delphi....

No reason I just have not found a connector that mates with the factory yaziki connector on the G8 harness. If you have one in Delphi that is great then you can supply us with a plug and play setup! I used the factory G8 harness and just replaced the connector body and terminals. If you have access to both connector bodies I would like to order some six inch harnesses.

Sam

[shane]

Yes if you could get a plug and play harness as far as it plugs into the zL1 hat and all you have to do it cut the g8 harness and solder the new connector i am VERY much interested!

[STL_G8GT]

No reason I just have not found a connector that mates with the factory yaziki connector on the G8 harness. If you have one in Delphi that is great then you can supply us with a plug and play setup! I used the factory G8 harness and just replaced the connector body and terminals. If you have access to both connector bodies I would like to order some six inch harnesses.

Sam

No, Sam, that's what im saying... Gm didn't use a delphi harness for the g8 fuel hat, so you can't source the more readily available delphi parts. There isn't a delphi equivalent, its proprietary to yakazi, and they don't make a male connector, as best I could find.... splicing or repining is the way to go...

[shane]

Some more PMs sent...

I'm trying to get everything lined out that way when i get the pump from Greg next week i can get it going!

[Carl@Vaporworx]

12ga GXL power wiring, 20ga GXL for the fuel level sensor, 12" length for all. All Delphi components, crimped in a proper Rennsteig tool and die set.

Wiring arrangement is:

Cavity 1 = Pump + / red.
Cavity 2 = Pump - / black
Cavity 3 = FLS ground / brn
Cavity 4 = FLS output / violet.

$22.50 + shipping.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2140/dsc02513q.jpg

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Looks great! That will work perfect

[shane]

I want it!

Pm's all sent again lol!

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Give me a headcount for how many and I'l build them.

Please understand that running this pump for extended time at 13.5v/58psi has not been validated. Problems such as insufficient G*/OEwire size, relay capacity, fuel overheating, pump life, etc. is uncharted territory for this arrangement. Having dealt with the fuel overheating problem and the other damage it can cause, IMO it's not the preferred option.

[STL_G8GT]

I would imagine you'd be safe to put together five or so of them. Shane will surely give his setup a full test with all of the street runs he does... that sort of repetition will absolutely test that pump setup. Once guys get a thousand miles or so under their belts, Im sure others will take the plunge. To be honest that probably goes for each of the options.

[shane]

Yea i pm'ed Carl wanting one of his Connectors and Regulator adapters just need a place to send the money to so i can get both on order.

Greg will have a pump for me in stock come tues or so he said and im ordering a Fbody regulator to keep it at 58psi at all times.

I will keep a eye on it and see how it does, im going to leave my BAP wired up and turn it all the way down and see how the ZL1 pump does, if need be ill turn up the BAP to help it keep up if it can't.Which of course is on a HOBBS switch.

I will definitely keep people updated on how it all goes and performs ill also be able to get fuel pressure readings since i have a fuel pressure gauge mounted up.

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Thank you for the order Shane. It will ship Monday.

Note that the fuel pressure with the 4th-gen regulator will fall as flow increases in this application. It will drop from its at-idle fuel pressure (58-60psi) approximately 6-7psi before it sends all the fuel to the pressure outlet. That is normal for a non-manifold referenced FPR.

[norm8332]

Yea i pm'ed Carl wanting one of his Connectors and Regulator adapters just need a place to send the money to so i can get both on order.

Greg will have a pump for me in stock come tues or so he said and im ordering a Fbody regulator to keep it at 58psi at all times.

I will keep a eye on it and see how it does, im going to leave my BAP wired up and turn it all the way down and see how the ZL1 pump does, if need be ill turn up the BAP to help it keep up if it can't.Which of course is on a HOBBS switch.

I will definitely keep people updated on how it all goes and performs ill also be able to get fuel pressure readings since i have a fuel pressure gauge mounted up.

You are blazing a trail here, the way your trying is what I'm interested in. Please let us know the parts etc that you use if it works out!

[shane]

Thank you for the order Shane. It will ship Monday.

Note that the fuel pressure with the 4th-gen regulator will fall as flow increases in this application. It will drop from its at-idle fuel pressure (58-60psi) approximately 6-7psi before it sends all the fuel to the pressure outlet. That is normal for a non-manifold referenced FPR.Thanks for the information.


You are blazing a trail here, the way your trying is what I'm interested in. Please let us know the parts etc that you use if it works out!Will do im really hoping to get it all going by the weekend if i get all the parts in time. Will post some updates.

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Kits are shipping now (thank you Pete and Brian.) There are two more G8-specific kits ready to go, after that it will be late next week before additional components will be tested and ready to go.

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

Has anyone attempted connecting the FPCM to the car's PCM? HPTuners shows the switches to run the fuel pressure in my car (2009.5 GT) so I'd think it would be possible?

Andy

[Greg@PacePerformance]

No, I looked it up Andy and the module was too expensive for me to just try out. I can help you out looking up and priceing parts if you are interested.

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

I suppose you need an FSCM + connector, pressure sensor + connector, and then wire it up. The FSCM from the CTS-V is used in a zillion other vehicles so that should be easy to come by. But the connector on it looks pretty goofy. Any ideas what it would cost? I might pick up an FSCM and jumper it on the bench to see if it works or not.

Andy

[Greg@PacePerformance]

I will work on the rest tomorrow.
FSCM
Camaro SS and many other cars - 20867261 - $91.18
Camaro ZL1 only - 20979890 - no price yet
2009+ CTS-V only - 19207950 - $445.36
These are just the standard prices not discounted.

[Darkmanx]

greg off topic , do you have any zl1 maps instock?

[STL_G8GT]

Carls kit arrived. Impressed.

14007

[blue-mayhem]

Hell yeah... Mine came in yesterday!!!

[Greg@PacePerformance]

greg off topic , do you have any zl1 maps instock?
ZL1 map? Do you mean pump/module?
Not at this time. I sold one on Tuesday and two today.
They take about 3-4 days to arrive from GM.

[Carl@Vaporworx]

Looks like I owe you a fuse holder Pete. I'll send that today.

Brain and I also talked yesterday for a while about some other ways to do the wiring. My hope is that between all of us the wiring kit can be made to better suit the needs of the G8 community. Hopefully he will chime in soon.

[blue-mayhem]

Looks like I owe you a fuse holder Pete. I'll send that today.

Brain and I also talked yesterday for a while about some other ways to do the wiring. My hope is that between all of us the wiring kit can be made to better suit the needs of the G8 community. Hopefully he will chime in soon.

Carl it was good talking to you and I will make sure I take some notes and pictures when I do the install. The kit really does look great how it is now.

[Darkmanx]

ZL1 map? Do you mean pump/module?
Not at this time. I sold one on Tuesday and two today.
They take about 3-4 days to arrive from GM.

zr1 i ment map sensor.

[Greg@PacePerformance]

Ahh your still looking for one. I'll check tomorrow for you.

[99-LS1-SS]

If I would've only waited, I might still have a GXP right now.

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

If I would've only waited, I might still have a GXP right now.

Did you have fuel problems? I can't think of a reason to sell a GXP and I don't even have one!

Andy

[Greg@PacePerformance]

There is a few slight issues than begin to erritate :)

[Andy@SquashPerformance]

There is a few slight issues than begin to erritate :)

Ah I forgot you bought his problem child :P Fuel gets hot on these cars. Are you running returnless? You've got a TVS2300 on it, right?

Andy

[VegasNate]

There is a few slight issues than begin to erritate :)

Haven't had any issues with mine. My setup is the same as Greg's.


Sent from Iphone4-better than Samsung Galaxy 2S

[XplicitPerformance]

So is there a ZL1 kit ready to go? I am needing a fuel system to support 700+ for insurance purposes.

[blue-mayhem]

So is there a ZL1 kit ready to go? I am needing a fuel system to support 700+ for insurance purposes.
Carl has a couple more pwm controller if your wanting one of those and if I were you I would get the CTS-V fuel pump for that kind of power.

[Darkmanx]

so you have to buy a kit from carl and buy the pump from greg? are there any instructions to set this up?

[Greg@PacePerformance]

greg off topic , do you have any zl1 maps instock?
If you order one I can have it here in one day from the GM warehouse
12592525 - $29.14


so you have to buy a kit from carl and buy the pump from greg? are there any instructions to set this up?
YES. you buy the controller kit from Carl then get the pump and AN hose and fittings from me once it is finalized here this week.