Build thread for rebuilding the 6L80

[Posidon42]

I am trying my hand at rebuilding my 6L80 and so far it is going well. I setup a time lapse camera in the garage so I don't have to get my camera dirty taking pictures. I disassembled most of the major components last night. Had to head out to Harbor Freight to pick up a dial indicator to measure the clutch clearance. Anyway, here are some pics, hope this helps someone.

12453 - Getting Started. Bought a large rubbermaid pan at Target to help save the garage floor.
12454 - RTFM!!
12455 - Taking off the pan. After reading through the manual, I determined there shouldn't be a need to take off the rear housing as I am not doing a complete rebuild. Just replacing the clutches.
12456 - Pan off. Quite a bit of residue in here...
12457 - More sludge
12458 - Even more sludge
12459 - Removed the filter. I didn't post any pictures of removing the electrical connector, but the manual is pretty clear you don't want to mess that thing up.
12460 - The special torx bit needed to take the valve body off. Only have to remove 6 bolts if you are just taking it off. It comes off as a component and I am NOT going to take it apart.
12461 - Valve Body
12462 - Taking the bellhousing off. It would have helped a LOT here to have the holding fixture. Ended up strapping it to the shelf where my video camera is mounted and had the wife help pull the actual housing off.


Since I have had some questions, here are all the parts that come with the kit:


Alto PowerPack clutch kits for the 3-5-R & 4-5-6
Rybestos Stg 1 Clutch kit for the 2-6
Selective snap rings for 3-5-R & 4-5-6 clutch drums
Our Reinforced clutch hub kit (2 hubs) ($100 core charge on each hub that is refunded upon return)
Billet Intermediate Shaft w/4-5-6 hub
Corvette/Camaro OEM deep pan (G-8's come with a very shallow pan) Vette pan clearance is still higher than headers.
High-flow filter
Pump stator ring kit
Pump housing o-ring
Cooler line gasket
New TCC o-ring for input shaft

[Posidon42]

Some more pics.

12463 - Removing the 4-5-6 Clutch housing and 3-5-R clutch drum assembly
12464 - Housing removed
12465 - Housing being disassembled
12466 - removing the 2-6 and 3-5-R clutch hub and shaft assembly
12467 - Using the biggest set of snap ring pliers I have ever seen. Buying this and the required adapters was about 1/8 of the cost of the entire rebuild. Funny thing is it took me longer to assemble the tool than to remove the center support to case retaining snap ring.
12468 - view of the snap ring coming out
12469 - shot of all the parts
12470 - removed the center support assembly. Instead of pulling it out from the top (it was pretty heavy), I just laid it on the side and it pretty much fell out. I forgot about the other clamp tool I bought so this won't be a problem when I put it back together.

[Posidon42]

Going to start soaking the clutches so I can put it all back together. Circle-D built this trans about a year ago and some of the improvements to the clutch hub assemblies and the intermediate shaft (output carrier shaft-4/5/6 hub). They welded the snap ring on the shaft and did some reinforcement welding on the hubs where they can fail. Not the prettiest welding but it might hold up. Going to send some pics to Mike at Century and see if their reinforcement (which comes with the cost of the kit) will make it any better of if I should just reinstall what is already done. More rebuild pics coming later tonight.

[thebeast]

very daring. nice job

[hartigan85]

Is this your first automatic transmission rebuild? I remember my first was a ford C4 from a 66 mustang, was scared shitless but in the end I realized it was a lot simpler then I had expected. I will be doing this eventually just because I can't stand paying people thousands of dollar for something I can do myself. Do you have any part numbers for the special tools required for the 6L80E?

[scar1990]

You are me hero!

[Posidon42]

Yes, this is the first rebuild I have done. However, I am a mechanical engineer and feel pretty good about the process. As for the tools, here is what I ordered:

6L80 tech manual

Minimum special tools you'll need:
6L80 valve body bolt socket (you can make one with a 4l60 bell housing bolt, double-nutted) - bought mine directly from Snap-on, part # FLEPL100
J 45126 Snap ring pliers & DT 47773 adaptor kit (to remove huge center support to case retaining snap ring)
DT 47781 3-5-R drum installer (not totally required, but makes drum install very-very much easier!)

[locrzn#92]

Cool thread and good luck, hope it turns out well.

[Kermit]

Wow, crazy stuff! Never done a transmission before. Why are you rebuilding it?

[polo]

Awesome, man. Thanks for posting this. I can't wait to see the end results, and I'm hoping that you're able to rebuild it successfully!

[hartigan85]

Yes, this is the first rebuild I have done. However, I am a mechanical engineer and feel pretty good about the process. As for the tools, here is what I ordered:

6L80 tech manual

Minimum special tools you'll need:
6L80 valve body bolt socket (you can make one with a 4l60 bell housing bolt, double-nutted) - bought mine directly from Snap-on, part # FLEPL100
J 45126 Snap ring pliers & DT 47773 adaptor kit (to remove huge center support to case retaining snap ring)
DT 47781 3-5-R drum installer (not totally required, but makes drum install very-very much easier!)

Thanks dude I will have to write those down for when I do mine. If you don't mind me asking, how much was the rebuild kit from century? I looked on their website and it only has the mail in transmission price.

[Posidon42]

Made some good progress today. Rebuilt the 4-5-6 drum about 3 times until I realized I was reading something wrong in the instructions. I also am going to have to send that pressure plate back in for machining. They want about 0.085-0.095 clearance and I only have 0.076.

As for why I am rebuilding it, pretty much all of the clutches are extremely burned. The 3-5-R clutches are the worst, as expected. Some of the steels were REALLY warped and the bottom plate looked like it had been spot welded.

Rebuilding is at a halt as either I am doing something wrong, or I was sent the wrong parts for the 1-4 clutch pack. They just don't fit. Will post some more pics in a few.

[Posidon42]

12483 - taking apart the 4-5-6 clutch. Pretty toasted
12484
12485
12486- my ghetto clearance gauge. Not pretty, but it worked well after putting it back together for the third time...
12487 - Starting on the 1-4 and 3-5-R clutch assembly
12488 - Taking out the snap ring
12489 - Removing the pressure plate
12490 - these were REALLY bad. Some of the steels were physically warped and the clutch material was completely missing on some of them. I am 99% sure these are the same clutches I am putting back in. They have the same cross hatched pattern on them as the replacements. Hopefully they hold up better.
12491 - warped steel
12492 - another warped steel

[Posidon42]

12493 - looks like spot welds on that steel plate
12494 - close up view
12495 - Taking out the 'cage' for the 1-4 clutches
12496 - removing another snap ring
12497 - More burned up clutches
12498 - Hrm... this doesn't quite fit... (edit) That's because that went with the 2-6 clutch pack that I haven't rebuilt yet.

So I get to buy more parts. The kit doesn't normally include the 1-4 clutches as they are rarely damaged. However, these need to be replaced as well and I am looking forward to another week of downtime... :(

[travis gore]

thanks for sharing the photos and process...god luck and I hope all turns out well for you

[Posidon42]

When I am done, I will make a writeup that will document more of the process and tell about some of the lessons learned. Hopefully make it more sticky worthy :)

[Posidon42]

Rebuilding is at a halt as either I am doing something wrong, or I was sent the wrong parts for the 1-4 clutch pack. They just don't fit. Will post some more pics in a few.

I did something wrong. I was trying to fit the 2-6 clutches where the 1-4 go. Unfortunately, the 1-4 weren't supposed to be replaced as part of this kit. At least I can still rebuild the 3-5-R part to measure the clutch clearance, but I have to order another set of clutches :( Sucks because I have a Cub Scout overnight next weekend and then I am out of town the following week for a business trip. Looks like it is going to be October before she is up and running.

[1baddbird]

Did you ever change the shift time via hp tuners? also the torque management may be part of your problem. slow shift times will kill clutches.

[Posidon42]

2-6 clutch reassembled. The clutches actually didn't look all that bad. The steels were a little blue, but I could still read the Raybestos logo and the part number on the clutches. Replaced them anyway though. An additional curiosity was that the old parts and the new parts were exactly the same part number, but the one ones only came with 5 sets, when the old ones had 6 squeezed in there. It couldn't have been good though, as I don't have enough clearance with just the 5 sets of clutches/steels. I need it to have between 0.045 and 0.055. I only have 0.038 :( Looks like all of the pressure plates are going back for machining. Going to call Century in the morning to make sure I measured the 3-5-R clutch correctly before I send it in.

[Posidon42]

Did you ever change the shift time via hp tuners? also the torque management may be part of your problem. slow shift times will kill clutches.

Nope, I only drove it 3 times before rebuilding it. I just bought this car a couple weeks ago but knew it had trans problems when I bought it. I was hoping to get it to live through the Fall before taking this on, but it wouldn't old ANY power in 3rd at all. So while I still have two other cars, (anyone wanna buy an 07 Odyssey?) I am taking my time to get this done. It is actually a lot of fun, just wish I didn't have to send parts back and forth for machining.

As for the tune, Mike @ Century is going to help me with that once I get it back in the car. Probably going to hit up the new HPT trans settings thread and grab something from there just to get it up and running.

The torque management was one of several factors which led up to this. This is going to be my DD, so I have no plans on pushing it hard.

[1baddbird]

Cool ive done a few now the tuning school is where i got the info from. got to go run a 911 call be back soon.

[Posidon42]

Cool ive done a few now the tuning school is where i got the info from. got to go run a 911 call be back soon.

My vote for the strangest post ever...

[1baddbird]

They have a lot of good info on how to set shift times and delete torque manaement. they are awesome at that stuff. Ive done a few G8s on here. Going to do a 10 camaro this week

[1baddbird]

Im a fire man Driver engineer medic cars are a side gig now.

[thebeast]

he tunes my car. car is great.
awesome task u have chose.to take here. definately need some videos when.its all done

[GT Drew]

Bravo for jumping in and tearing down your own trans. I rebuilt a turbo 400 years ago. It had a fraction of the parts you are dealing with. If you need a link for just the 1-4 clutches just PM me.

[Posidon42]

Going to ship the pressure plates off tomorrow. I wanted to take another day and hear back from Century and make sure I was measuring stuff right.

[TimC]

Nice job tackling this project yourself. I signed up for this site just so I could see the pics. I just had the 6l80 in my STS-V rebuilt with the upgraded clutches a month ago and all of a sudden last Friday it seems like the 3-5-r clutches are partially applied. I took the valve body off last night and everything in there is fine, no binding. With that removed I could see the drums and clutch plates. All clutch sets moved easily and had some clearance except the 3-5-r clutches. I could only see two clutches but it was enough to get a pick in there and determine that there was no clearance. I pried them apart with a screwdriver and they sprung back together.

I don't know what happened. I did a pretty decent burnout when I got to work on Friday and I wonder if that had anything to do with it. The car makes a lot more power than stock too. I swapped the blower for a billet 67mm turbo and it makes about 520-530rwhp in street trim. It dynoed at 502rwhp with 3 less pounds of boost.

I'm going to drop the trans tonight and check into it. Hopefully I don't have to get into it as far as Posidon.

[Posidon42]

Welcome and thanks! However, it isn't back in the car yet, so I am going to hold off on my enthusiasm.

My builder instructed me to take the 'wave plate' off the 3-5-R clutch pack AND I have to machine the pressure plate to get the 0.085-0.095 clearance required. I can't wait to get it back together, but it is going to be a while :(

If enough of you are interested in trying this sort of thing yourself, I might be willing to let forum members borrow the specialized tools. We would have to work out the details and all, but I would love to see some more people digging into this. Might get Century to kick in a forum discount on the rebuild kit ;)

[TimC]

I figured out what is causing my problem. All the 3-5-R clutches with the tabs facing inwards are cone shaped. The ones with the tabs out are fine. I don't know why at this point. My 3-5-R clutch pack did not have the wave plate in it. It was sitting right on the spacer deal. I think the trans was assembled properly the first time and I'm either making too much power (doubtful) or the 2-3 shift is hitting too hard? I can't see that really because the tires just spin on the 1-2 and 2-3 and even the 3-4 on the dyno.

[Posidon42]

My inward facing clutches were cupped too. Of course, the clutch material was completely missing off two of the clutches. The manufacturer spec says they need 0.045 to 0.055 of clearance with the stock clutches and the wave plate. Century said without the wave plate and with the aftermarket clutches you need almost double that clearance to have the clutches completely disengage. That's why I sent mine back for machining. Tom, Ron, (something like that) is the trans builder at Century. He said when they rebuild a 6L80, they pretty much automatically cut 0.050 off the 3-5-R pressure plate. Then they reinstall it for final measurement.

[Posidon42]

12534 - High Res - Here is how I measured the clutch clearance for mine.
12535 - High Res - 3-5-R component assembly from the ATSG manual
12536 - High Res - Alto assembly instructions

[TimC]

Thanks for the info. Did Tom/Ron say why the clutches were cupped? Mine have only been in there for a month.

[GT Drew]

Heat is what "cones" the stock clutch plates. The higher quality replacements are made with better, more stable steel that resists the warpage from heat.

[TimC]

These are the upgraded clutches. My trans builder wants to see the clutches and drum tomorrow. Hopefully he has some ideas

[TimC]

I was able to get the clutches warrantied but I'm pretty much on my own to get this thing to hold the power.

I ordered the new pump cover kit from the dealer yesterday. Part number 24248573. It is supposed to be better than the first design and comes with better seal rings to make sure the fluid gets to the clutches instead of leaking out. Queensland automatics has a replacement spring for the main pressure regulator and pump return spring. I'm going to call them tomorrow (Monday in AU) and see about those springs.

[gr8lover]

I was able to get the clutches warrantied but I'm pretty much on my own to get this thing to hold the power.

I ordered the new pump cover kit from the dealer yesterday. Part number 24248573. It is supposed to be better than the first design and comes with better seal rings to make sure the fluid gets to the clutches instead of leaking out. Queensland automatics has a replacement spring for the main pressure regulator and pump return spring. I'm going to call them tomorrow (Monday in AU) and see about those springs.

before you install.... I would be interested in exactly what they give you... just to make sure its correct... I know some kits that are wrong... include pics and descriptions before installing... I can help to confirm it is correct or not....

[TimC]

What would be wrong? The clutches look right to me. I checked clearance and it's only .065 or so. I'm going to check it again tomorrow and cut that pressure plate to get to the .085-.095 alto recommends.

[gr8lover]

What would be wrong? The clutches look right to me. I checked clearance and it's only .065 or so. I'm going to check it again tomorrow and cut that pressure plate to get to the .085-.095 alto recommends.

I mean for the pump kit..... many times they dont understand exactly which seals and orings go onto the pump stator shaft.... many times they mix the wrong stator and orings/ring seals... Service and the dealers have made mistakes on this... heck for mine they gave me the wrong ring seals..... they appear correct but will not work correctly on the shaft I got...

the new design has deeper grooves in the stator shaft and include orings that go under the new designed ring seals(original design didnt include orings... only ring seals..)... the new design also requires different ring seals than the first design even though the old ones appear to fit the will not work correctly. just hate to see someone get wrong parts...

[Sephiroth]

WOW.


I would have never dreamed of doing this, but now that you've posted pictures, it looks so simple.

<3

[TimC]

I mean for the pump kit..... many times they dont understand exactly which seals and orings go onto the pump stator shaft.... many times they mix the wrong stator and orings/ring seals... Service and the dealers have made mistakes on this... heck for mine they gave me the wrong ring seals..... they appear correct but will not work correctly on the shaft I got...

the new design has deeper grooves in the stator shaft and include orings that go under the new designed ring seals(original design didnt include orings... only ring seals..)... the new design also requires different ring seals than the first design even though the old ones appear to fit the will not work correctly. just hate to see someone get wrong parts...

Ahh, I see now. I ordered the stator kit and a set of the 2nd design seals just in case the stator kit didn't come with them. I was not aware of the deeper grooves in the new design.

Are you going to do anything to raise line pressure? Since Circle D was in there maybe they already did it. I am surprised that their trans couldn't take 550rwhp though.

[TimC]

I found instructions for installing the updated seals correctly. pg 2-11

https://www.gmasepbsep.com//GMASEPDOCS/A02%20Automatic%20Transmisson%20&%20Transaxles/IDL%20Broadcasts/17440.13D%20Transmission%20New%20&%20Updates/17440.13D_091708_R1.00_PG.pdf

[gr8lover]

Ahh, I see now. I ordered the stator kit and a set of the 2nd design seals just in case the stator kit didn't come with them. I was not aware of the deeper grooves in the new design.

Are you going to do anything to raise line pressure? Since Circle D was in there maybe they already did it. I am surprised that their trans couldn't take 550rwhp though.
Yea they did raise line pressure.... and their trans has no issue holding 550rwhp..... they can hold much more than that... I would guess they could hold 750rwhp easy..... Mine went due to a freak issue... (my output carrier hub snapped off... no one upgrades the output carrier hub!!-- it was just a 1 in a million issue)... They rebuilt it again and its all good....... I just decided to go a different route..... looking at something to hold 850rwhp without issue.... and thats why I went to a built 4L80..... 6L80 are greats trans....(we are making 2000/day... :) ) but the 4L80 will hold more power and no one can dispute that.... I just needed it to hold more than its capacity even built up.... sure there are guys making that power, but they will have to rebuild every yr or two... and I am done doing that... :)

[Posidon42]

Woot! The pressure plates and the 1-4 clutches are on their way back to me! Still won't be able to work on it until this weekend though. This is going to be a long week.

[Posidon42]

...but they will have to rebuild every yr or two...

Guess I will keep my tools then :)

[mooredata]

Cool nice job.

[gr8lover]

I found instructions for installing the updated seals correctly. pg 2-11

https://www.gmasepbsep.com//GMASEPDOCS/A02%20Automatic%20Transmisson%20&%20Transaxles/IDL%20Broadcasts/17440.13D%20Transmission%20New%20&%20Updates/17440.13D_091708_R1.00_PG.pdf

Nice.... the big thing is to make sure if you have the new pump stator with the grooves with the alignment notches or not... if you have the notches then use oring and newer designed ring seal..... if you dont have the alignment notches/locators then you need to use NO oring and use the old style ring seal and with this setup you need to align the ring seal a certain way(marking all the same way--- the thoery is that the way they mold the ring seal that it will seal better if all the mold extraction points all face the same way....... I like the oring/ring seal with alignment/locators on the stator shaft design much better.....

[TimC]

Nice.... the big thing is to make sure if you have the new pump stator with the grooves with the alignment notches or not... if you have the notches then use oring and newer designed ring seal..... if you dont have the alignment notches/locators then you need to use NO oring and use the old style ring seal and with this setup you need to align the ring seal a certain way(marking all the same way--- the thoery is that the way they mold the ring seal that it will seal better if all the mold extraction points all face the same way....... I like the oring/ring seal with alignment/locators on the stator shaft design much better.....

Hopefully I got the better design. That's half the reason I ordered the parts. I got the part number from a post on here I think.

I got my backing plate machined today so I can at least put the 35r drum back together and install it. My dealership parts should be here tomorrow.

I can't get a hold of the Australians so I'm not sure what to do about raising the line pressure via the regulator spring.

[GT Drew]

Failure of the of the drum shafts is not uncommon. There are shops that can reinforced the drum to shaft. Replacement intermediate shafts are also available. 12615

[gr8lover]

Failure of the of the drum shafts is not uncommon. There are shops that can reinforced the drum to shaft. Replacement intermediate shafts are also available. 12615

Your not mentioning this due to my posts are you?.... your right about being able to help many of the drums/shafts but the one you are showing is best if fully billet like Circle D makes special... and this one shown is a common one that breaks.... as for my issue no one reinforces the output carrier hub... :)

[TimC]

I welded my drum shafts.

My cover kit came in today. It has the updated two piece seals on it. I'll be installing that later tonight and probably finishing the project on Thursday.

[Posidon42]

My clutch hubs were welded too. However, I bought the billet intermediate shaft from Century with the rest of my kit. This thing should be bullet proof by the time I am done.

[gr8lover]

My clutch hubs were welded too. However, I bought the billet intermediate shaft from Century with the rest of my kit. This thing should be bullet proof by the time I am done.
Hopefully you dont get unlucky like me and break off the output carrier hub.... :)

[-Ray-]

Hopefully you dont get unlucky like me and break off the output carrier hub.... :)

Don't jinx him Chuck. LOL

[gr8lover]

Don't jinx him Chuck. LOL

Yea I know..I shouldnt.... I will try not to bring down others just cause of my issues.. :)...I think its great that these guys are doing this work.....I guess just as in any transmission there are weak points and some get unluckier than others.... Some areas cannot be strengthened (just as the output carrier hub--- and no one yet has been able to strengthen this part--- no matter what any tells you.. they dont and cant strengthen this hub... :) )... I guess I just happen to be one of the unlucky ones that broke this particular part.--- I have seen three others break... one on a CTS-V, one on a abused truck, and one on a corvette.... but as you push the limit (and I was only at 660rwp at the time) then even the built trans will find ways to break other parts that would normally not break (cause the built trans not transfer the breakage and abuse to other areas.. )... but I guess we all realize this fact and are ok with the crap that comes along with it.... it is just a gamble... but it sure is a FUN gamble to take!!!! but for sure, a built trans is one way to lessen the likelyhood that something will go wrong.... so it is worth it for sure!!!!!!!

[Posidon42]

Finally got home and was able to spend some time in the garage. I reassembled all the clutches and all are within clearance now. Started the final assembly and now I am having a problem. As part of the original tear down, I decided that I didn't need to take off the tail housing as I wasn't going to mess with the output shaft parts at all.

However, I am now starting to wonder if something shifted in there, as I can't get the center support to sit far enough down inside the transmission to get the "center support to case retaining snap ring" installed. I can get parts of it to seat, but there just isn't enough clearance for the entire snap ring to seat. This obviously isn't right, but there really isn't all that much that I could have messed up that would take up this clearance. My fingers are really friggin sore from taking that center assembly in and out so many times, but I just can't find out what is going on. Any ideas?

[Posidon42]

Partial victory! There were two thrust bearings that are almost identical, except one is about 1/8" thicker than the other. I had the thicker one installed which led to my clearance issue. I have just about everything put back together, but now there is some interference and I can't get the bellhousing installed past the last of the three input shaft teflon rings. The book says to use a seal compressor, which of course, I don't have. So I am going to the store tomorrow to pick up three worm clamps and hope that works.

I am so close I can taste it! I will post some pics tomorrow, need some sleep now.

[Posidon42]

I welded my drum shafts.

My cover kit came in today. It has the updated two piece seals on it. I'll be installing that later tonight and probably finishing the project on Thursday.

Any updates on your progress?

[TimC]

Mine's back in the car and working. I increased the clearance in the 3-5-r clutches and spent a few hours yesterday tuning a flare/delay issue going into 3rd and 5th. I got it to where it only did it at low delivered tq and it matched up with the lower columns of the shift pressure tables. Got those adjusted last night but have not tried it yet. I would have tried it yesterday but I noticed a ton of engine oil under the car and a leaking oil return pump. I'm going to go out and fix that now; it's a huge mess.

[Posidon42]

Good to hear bu I wish I could work at your speed.

[TimC]

Got that taken care of and a new tune loaded. I probably won't get a chance to try it till tomorrow.

I'm logging actual line pressure now and it is very helpful for tuning.

[Posidon42]

I found instructions for installing the updated seals correctly. pg 2-11

https://www.gmasepbsep.com//GMASEPDOCS/A02%20Automatic%20Transmisson%20&%20Transaxles/IDL%20Broadcasts/17440.13D%20Transmission%20New%20&%20Updates/17440.13D_091708_R1.00_PG.pdf

I couldn't get those to install at all. Century sent me this design and I spent half the day trying to get those damn things in. It never would get past the third seal. The second one was maybe 50/50. They just wouldn't go. It was so tight that the center section would wedge onto the bellhousing such that I had to take the center section off with the bellhousing and separate it on the shop floor. At least I got pretty good at seating all the clutches in the center section :) It is all back together, but I used the old seals to get it to work.

[TimC]

Huh, my pump cover kit came with the two piece seals installed and they dropped right in. I'm glad about that because I had a hell of a time getting that 35r 1234 drum seated.

Tested new tune and it works pretty well. I changed some shift pressures in the lower torque columns and I'll test that out tomorrow. I also want to get a long 3rd gear pull in to see what line pressure does. I want to see if I have the same problem Jim had when he was tuning his TTG8 here:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/1243580-now-logging-actual-line-pressure-a6-less-than-100psi-3rd.html

[TimC]

The stator shaft for the new style seals has deeper grooves. Maybe that was the problem.

[gr8lover]

I couldn't get those to install at all. Century sent me this design and I spent half the day trying to get those damn things in. It never would get past the third seal. The second one was maybe 50/50. They just wouldn't go. It was so tight that the center section would wedge onto the bellhousing such that I had to take the center section off with the bellhousing and separate it on the shop floor. At least I got pretty good at seating all the clutches in the center section :) It is all back together, but I used the old seals to get it to work.

SO they sent you the new pump/stator assembly and the oring and the ring seals??? if they just sent you the oring and ring seals that will not work at all if you didnt have that design to start with...... I thought I mentioned this in many posts but maybe didnt make it clear.... sorry you had to deal with your issues....

[Posidon42]

They just sent me the oring and seals. You were clear in your original post, but until I messed with it, I didn't have the context to understand the issue. But at least it is all back together :) Took the day off to finish putting it all together.

[Posidon42]

Got it installed last night but had to head off to bed before I was finished. I think I may have left the trans in park or something because I can't turn the engine over to install the other two bolts on the torque converter. Going to mess with it again tonight, hopefully I didn't install something wrong because I already returned the trans jack I was renting :)

[Posidon42]

Well gents, I am throwing in the towel. I feel pretty good about getting everything rebuilt, but something wasn't right when it was mated back to the car. The prop shaft spins just fine, but the engine won't turn over at all. I called a wrecker to pick up the car tomorrow morning and take it to the dealership for repair. I am confident I overlooked something simple, but I still don't have the car titled because I can't take it to the DMV for the VIN inspection. Disappointing, but at least I will know it was assembled correctly. I am really bummed this is how this adventure turned out but I will make sure to let you all know what the issue was when they find it. Hopefully they don't have to take the trans back apart...

[polo]

Well gents, I am throwing in the towel. I feel pretty good about getting everything rebuilt, but something wasn't right when it was mated back to the car. The prop shaft spins just fine, but the engine won't turn over at all. I called a wrecker to pick up the car tomorrow morning and take it to the dealership for repair. I am confident I overlooked something simple, but I still don't have the car titled because I can't take it to the DMV for the VIN inspection. Disappointing, but at least I will know it was assembled correctly. I am really bummed this is how this adventure turned out but I will make sure to let you all know what the issue was when they find it. Hopefully they don't have to take the trans back apart...

Ah, man that sucks. I hate hearing that! I really hope they don't have to take it back apart either.

[Posidon42]

The only thing I can think of is that the clutches are rubbing because I hadn't filled it with trans fluid yet. Oh well, we will see what happens. It was a good adventure anyway and I learned a LOT about this transmission in the process. It is actually pretty easy to work with and I honestly think removing and installing the trans is more difficult than rebuilding it. But that is probably because I had the correct tools to rebuild the trans but I didn't have a lift so I could maneuver it easily.

[TimC]

That blows. You didn't hook up the park pawl wrong or something did you? That's the thing that locks the trans up in park. Maybe that is engaged. I can't see how the trans would be completely locked up if it went together decent and you didn't have to force anything. If they are going to take everything apart again it might be a good time to put that updated stator cover in. My trans has a much more consistent shift feel than it did with the old design. I chased the 2-3 shift all over, it was rarely the same twice in a row.

[scar1990]

if I remember right there is a bushing somewhere where the shifter and the trans link up. It its not in place, it treats it like it's not in park and will not let the starter engage.

[Posidon42]

So I found out what I did today. Absolutely nothing wrong with my rebuild of the trans, I f'd up installing the torque converter. I had the trans sitting on its side when I was putting the converter in and I thought I felt the thing fully seat, but apparently it didn't. So there are two very nice pressed dimples on the top of the converter :( Oh well, they are smoothing those out and will check out the pump to make sure the pressure didn't damage anything. With any luck it should be back together tonight or early tomorrow.

Well at least I chose to mess up something simple...

[Posidon42]

damnit, damnit, damnit. I broke the trans pump too. Well at least I learned a lot about the trans and what not to do next time. Unfortunately, I just killed all the cost savings from having someone else just rebuild the stupid thing. I should have just paid Joe to fix it before I picked up the car :) I am sure it will all be good once I have it together, but I don't necessarily have the satisfaction I did last week.

Man I need a beer...

[polo]

I'm really sorry to hear that. Hopefully the joy of driving that near 600hp beast will help ease the pain :)

[scar1990]

I'm drinking one for u right now.

[Posidon42]

wish I could be drinking one for me right now, but I have to go lead my cub scouts and try not have a bad attitude about all this.

[mooredata]

Following this link because I installed TQ's before and would like to leap to a Super Transmmmmmmision some day. Thanks.

[Posidon42]

I am sure I will be completely happy with it once it is all installed. And I have definitely learned my lesson for 'next' time.

Too bad they probably won't have it ready before the weekend :( But I have next Monday off and should finally be able to spend some time with the car when it can hold power in third gear.

[Posidon42]

And the replacement parts list keeps growing. :(

The seal in the bellhousing got buggered up when the new protrusions from the torque converter tore it up a bit. And of course, this isn't a replaceable part, I needed an entire new bellhousing. And when they took that off, they noticed that the rotors inside the transmission pump were warped a bit and actually left an impression in the mating surfaces. So now the rotors and the actual pump assembly is getting replaced. More overnight parts to add to the tally... This sucks.

[Posidon42]

Still trying to get them to tell me what is wrong. It appears that the oil pump rotor vanes made an impression in the oil pump cover assembly but you can't even feel it is there. From what I can tell, all it did was maybe squeeze some of the dirty parts out and made a clean spot. Oh, and all I wanted them to fix on the bellhousing was the "torque converter housing bushing" and they said the only way GM sells this is with an entire new bellhousing. This may be correct, but it is starting to sound like they just want to have me replace all the parts.

I am this close to just box everything up and I will fix it when I get around to it. I am already over budget on this project and it doesn't seem like the end is in sight yet.

[Posidon42]

Well here is some information from a reputable source:


the rotor should be still good.... hard to damage those... also the rotor and slide are specifically chosen for the pocket depth and the clearance is down to a tight window...(microns),.... shop have a hard time gaging it... the vanes are all the same size...

The dealership said they were having a hard time sourcing all the parts to make it work anyway. I think I am going to tell them tomorrow to just put it all back together and I will take my chances. As long as they can get the torque converter to install through the bushing and engage on the 'tabs', all should be good.

[Posidon42]

The bushing is part number 206 in this drawing and apparently isn't normally replaced separately. I searched several online parts vendors and couldn't find anything that included that bushing without the entire housing. So will have to cut the dealership some slack in my previous statement :)

The front of the transmission oil pump itself (part 219 in the picture) is what has the 'imprint' of the rotors on it.

12762

[gr8lover]

The bushing is part number 206 in this drawing and apparently isn't normally replaced separately. I searched several online parts vendors and couldn't find anything that included that bushing without the entire housing. So will have to cut the dealership some slack in my previous statement :)

The front of the transmission oil pump itself (part 219 in the picture) is what has the 'imprint' of the rotors on it.

12762
just make sure the pump surface and the TCH surface under the vanes and slide is smooth and burr free..... small scrapes and imprints are not an issue....

[Posidon42]

It seems GM is having a parts quality control problem. Apparently the rotor and pump assembly were supposed to come in when they ordered the bellhousing. So they have an official Request for Investigation in progress.

More parts are being overnighted from St. Louis. With any luck, I will be driving away from the dealership tomorrow!

[Posidon42]

Well it is still at the dealership. But all the parts came in this afternoon. Looking forward to driving the car tomorrow.

[Posidon42]

My baby is back at home! Had a quick drive when I drove it home but it is going to sit in the garage this weekend since it doesn't have any plates.

[shane]

Hope all goes well.

[Posidon42]

lol me too. I need to get my HP tuner setup with the car still and I am sure I will be spending some more time in the trans tuning thread. So much to learn!

[-Ray-]

Glad you got your car back.

[travis gore]

glad to hear that you have her back at home

[TimC]

Glad it is working! Mine is still functioning as well.

[G8GT721]

In for later use


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[Posidon42]

I haven't updated this thread in a while, but all is going very well. Honestly, it was a lot easier to rebuild this than I thought. For me, the hardest part was that I messed up putting the TC back on. But if you can manage to do that (get a lift, it helps a ton!) then you can rebuild the trans. I am going to keep all of my tools just in case I have to tear it back apart for some reason.

[G8-4-Speed]

Alto PowerPack clutch kits for the 3-5-R & 4-5-6
Rybestos Stg 1 Clutch kit for the 2-6
Selective snap rings for 3-5-R & 4-5-6 clutch drums
Our Reinforced clutch hub kit (2 hubs) ($100 core charge on each hub that is refunded upon return)
Billet Intermediate Shaft w/4-5-6 hub
Corvette/Camaro OEM deep pan (G-8's come with a very shallow pan) Vette pan clearance is still higher than headers.
High-flow filter
Pump stator ring kit
Pump housing o-ring
Cooler line gasket
New TCC o-ring for input shaft

Hows that 4-5-6 power pack holding up? Still shifting good? Any good hard miles on it? What clearance did you use on the 4-5-6 "power-pack"?

[Posidon42]

It's great so far. No really hard miles on it due to snow tires and the cold weather, but I anticipate testing it out as the weather warms up. I am still tuning some of the trans settings, though. It shifts very different when it is cold and warm, so I have to balance the feel. Right now I am chasing a flare in the 3-4 shift when cold, but so far so good.

[hartigan85]

I haven't updated this thread in a while, but all is going very well. Honestly, it was a lot easier to rebuild this than I thought. For me, the hardest part was that I messed up putting the TC back on. But if you can manage to do that (get a lift, it helps a ton!) then you can rebuild the trans. I am going to keep all of my tools just in case I have to tear it back apart for some reason.

Any chance you would consider renting out some of the special tools for rebuilding the trans?

[G8-4-Speed]

Hopefully your Alto 4-5-6 "Power Pack" does better than what is seen here......This is after @400 miles and one trip to the track on street tires. It devoloped a 4-5 "flare" that I couldn't tune out within reason. I have since went to a "better" setup that cost less. Alto did a bad job engineering this clutch pack as it has no bottom support to keep the clutch packs from deflecting. It burnt off the edge of the clutch pack down to the steel but left the center untouched. The last picture shows a thin shiny line on the outside edge where the clutch piston applies the clutch. Clearance was set "wet" at .091" I was hoping not to be right about this when I installed it but here it is. The "OLD" original clutches that had 20,000+ hard supercharger miles + 3 days at VIR are temporarly back in and work great. Had to add an extra steel to make up for the extra machined room from the Power Pack install. Even at .116" clearance it still works good.

[G8V8]

That looks nasty Rick.

[Virus]

Please take these out of my car Rick :)

[Posidon42]

I saw something like that with the clutches I took out of the trans when I rebuilt it. Now my trans is acting up in 1st and reverse. :(

I really don't want to rebuild this again. For the money, I will yank the thing out, put in the manual, rebuild the auto again and be rid of the thing.

[-Ray-]

Stuck.

[G8GTSBM]

Does Century know about these issues? If so, what do they have to say?

[Virus]

Given that they have changed the clutch clearance recommendation so many times would indicate they know. I literally bought my clutch packs and had them installed 3 or so days before Century changed the clearance recommendation again. Their recommendation is over .100" on the 4-5-6, yet Alto who makes them says .045"-.075". This info is available on Alto's website, but I spoke to them too. My installer called Century and they gave him the "run around". Circle D said they no longer sell them.

[G8-4-Speed]

If it is modified for the extra clutches already, you should be able to replace the Alto with a factory clutch pack in with an extra clutch in the 3-5-r and 4-5-6. I took two of the trans I did and threw away the 4-5-6 Alto setups and the 3-5 and went back factory using an extra clutch and it works TONS better. Dougs is cammed with 10psi and is working great. Shifts with a mission! One thing you have to be careful with upping the 4-5-6 clearance, is it will bump the inner clutch drum if you machine the plate for the clearance Century wants for the clutches. Meaning, the clutch hits the clutch drum retaining tables before locking against the end plate. .045" off the end plate using the thin retaining ring is albout as far as you can go. I went .050 on one and had to use a thicker snap ring.

[shane]

So who wants to do mine when it goes lol

[Posidon42]

If this trans goes tango uniform again, I am pulling it, rebuilding it, selling it, and putting in a manual. It is a lot easier to replace a clutch than rebuild a trans... I don't drag race but I do enjoy a spirited drive around town. Don't want to go with a 4 speed because my new job has a 20 mile commute each way and I don't want to burn any more gas than I have to.

[G8-4-Speed]

So who wants to do mine when it goes lol


I'm pretty sure I got it nailed down as long as you stick with stock clutches+1. Little far away though.....

[Posidon42]

Thats how i am going to rebuild mine when the time comes.

[XplicitPerformance]

I'm pretty sure I got it nailed down as long as you stick with stock clutches+1. Little far away though.....

so is there anything special they do besides an extra clutch?

[Posidon42]

No, but the aftermarket clutches seem to be more sensitive to overheating. Just make SURE you install a BIG trans cooler and you should be fine. But you will have to machine the apply disks to make clearance for the extra clutches.

[XplicitPerformance]

I think I will be going back with a brand new OEM transmission this time. Seems noone really has a good BUILT 6L80E out there on the market. I was looking into century but it seems they are still experimenting with the clearances and tolerances.

[shane]

I think I will be going back with a brand new OEM transmission this time. Seems noone really has a good BUILT 6L80E out there on the market. I was looking into century but it seems they are still experimenting with the clearances and tolerances.
Best idea at the time i think.Before i sold the G8 was telling myself i'd just go the same route whenever mine went.

[G8-4-Speed]

I am still for machining for the extra 3-5 and 4-5-6 clutches using factory fibers and steels. That is the best upgrade. The 3-5 I cut the cage down and notch the 1-2-3-4 endplate. The 4-5-6 gets a thin end retaining ring and .035-.040" cut off the step in the end plate. I run .065-.075" clearance. Too much and the clutch plate will hang up on the drum retaining notches on the teeth.

The Alto kit is junk. PERIOD. Anything that is worse than stock is junk. Dougs trans has held up great with the setup above and doesn't get cut an slack....

[G8-4-Speed]

so is there anything special they do besides an extra clutch?

"they" don't do it. The extra stock clutch is my doing....

Alto tried to make some weird clutch arrangement that uses a hybid fiber plate which get another 2 clutches. They are steel one side, clutch on the other. But this design makes everything paper thin and just burns up with an power. To make it worse, the clutches are applied from a thin outside ring on the piston and the clutches are so thin, they deflect so it only grabs on the outside edge of the clutch.

[XplicitPerformance]

Best idea at the time i think.Before i sold the G8 was telling myself i'd just go the same route whenever mine went.

Yeah looks like thats the ticket. I am going to give another factory 6L80E the go ahead one more time. Maybe that will give me time to convince the boss to let me put a 4L80E in her car. She hates losing the extra 2 gears but I like the durability especially with the plans to crank things up.

[BODYSHOPG8]

thats a nice write up... never seen one that involved for a trans on the forum

[kj217]

I am still for machining for the extra 3-5 and 4-5-6 clutches using factory fibers and steels. That is the best upgrade. The 3-5 I cut the cage down and notch the 1-2-3-4 endplate. The 4-5-6 gets a thin end retaining ring and .035-.040" cut off the step in the end plate. I run .065-.075" clearance. Too much and the clutch plate will hang up on the drum retaining notches on the teeth.

The Alto kit is junk. PERIOD. Anything that is worse than stock is junk. Dougs trans has held up great with the setup above and doesn't get cut an slack....
i wish i read this before i order altos,, can you please elaborate in more details -pics if possible- on how to rebuild using factory clutches?
where to get a thinner retaining ring for 4-5-6?
anything to be done to 1-2-3-4 or 2-6?

[G8-4-Speed]

http://parts.nalleygmc.com (http://parts.nalleygmc.com/)
Pull up our trans and they list all the retaining rings available. I believe the ones you need are:
24233407- 4-5-6 thin ring
24240194- 3-5-R thin ring *** you have to machine the clutch stand or end plate to get clearance on this clutch pack for the extra clutch and steel.
You need a
fiber kit- 24248008
Seals- 24260143
1-4 steels- 24258080- 5ea
3-5-R-steels 24258082 -5ea
4-5-6 steels 24258083- 7 ea
3-5-R fiber 24235681 - 1 ea
4-5-6 fiber 24224158 - 1 ea

[TimC]

Just wanted to add that my trans is still working great with the alto clutches. I went with .095 clearance on the 35R if I remember correctly. The STS-V trans has a shallower 35R drum and there is not enough room for all the clutches. I had to leave one out. The most power I put through it was 575/621. I removed the turbo and went back to the stock supercharger so I'm down to 480/490 now.

[kj217]

alto still work great for me as well except for harsh shifting into 3rd and 5th,, 35R clearance is .080,,

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[kj217]

i have another issue that can be related to tight clearance of 35R,, the first 2-3 after almost each ignition tcm tries to engage 3rd before 2nd is released,, it makes the car halts badly like i put selector in P position,, any idea?

[kj217]

http://parts.nalleygmc.com (http://parts.nalleygmc.com/)
Pull up our trans and they list all the retaining rings available. I believe the ones you need are:
24233407- 4-5-6 thin ring
24240194- 3-5-R thin ring *** you have to machine the clutch stand or end plate to get clearance on this clutch pack for the extra clutch and steel.
You need a
fiber kit- 24248008
Seals- 24260143
1-4 steels- 24258080- 5ea
3-5-R-steels 24258082 -5ea
4-5-6 steels 24258083- 7 ea
3-5-R fiber 24235681 - 1 ea
4-5-6 fiber 24224158 - 1 ea

waive plates must be removed?

[Posidon42]

Good question. I don't remember if I took mine out or not. I don't believe I did...


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[G8-4-Speed]

Yes, pull the waive plates.

[kj217]

whats the recommended clearance?

[kj217]

anyone with 600+whp and went with this would share tune files?

[desertg8]

Well Rick you are right. Within fifteen thousand miles the 4/5/6 red alto clutches have burnt up twice. It is not the tune. They just do not work. I am at a loss here in Tucson. I do not know what to recommend to whom ever I choose to repair the transmission. Greg was going to give me a great price on a new 6L80E. But I hate throwing away good parts I paid for that are in this transmission. This really is very depressing.

[Virus]

Your best bet is to replace with the stock clutches. They are inexpensive and reliable.

[Posidon42]

That's what I'm going to do. I already bought all the parts to add the extra clutch and steel to the trans when I rebuild it.

[desertg8]

That's what I'm going to do. I already bought all the parts to add the extra clutch and steel to the trans when I rebuild it.


I left a couple of messages with local Tucson shops explaining that I just need the 4/5/6 somehow fixed using stock clutches. If I feel comfortable with the shop maybe I will go this way. But then I need to know if I should get rid of the Century tune as he has me running an incredible amount of pressure.

If I do not feel comfortable I might just ditch the upgraded parts and order a new transmission from Greg at Pace. Have Greg deliver the transmission to someone I feel comfortable with and send him the old unit back to get the security deposit back.

If I went this route I would definitely have to get rid of a lot of the tune that Century had me do.

[G8GTSBM]

With the right tune it seems you should not have any problems with a fairly stock trans.

[desertg8]

they have it apart right now. the 4/5/6 is burnt up. the one that has the reverse in it is also burnt up. he sais the needle bearing is bad also. the seals were not done correctly and the boost kit that the other shop put in was a sub par one. he ordered stock clutches, will go through the whole transmission, put in the new needle bearing and seals, and the boost a pump in the transmission that will get the pressure up. out the door 1500. no one year warranty. but he will work with me if the unfortunate happens. he also stated red alto clutches do not belong in 4000 pound street cars :(

[Posidon42]

I had to rebuild the 4/5/6 and 3/5/R clutches with my rebuild. And that's after century had already rebuilt it for the previous owner but they used the Alto clutches too. As others have said though, the key to the health of these transmissions lies in the tune.


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[shane]

the key to the health of these transmissions lies in the tune.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)BINGO!

Proper tune and a nice cooler do wonders

[desertg8]

BINGO!

Proper tune and a nice cooler do wonders


has a cooler and the tune was supplied from Century Transmission. Nic D is looking at the tune for me now and is going to make some changes to the Century tune.

[shane]

has a cooler and the tune was supplied from Century Transmission. Nic D is looking at the tune for me now and is going to make some changes to the Century tune.

I know a member on here that didn't like his century trans tune that much and ended up using mine with good luck.

A guy a talk to quite often uses their stuff and im pretty sure hasn't had major issue and good luck. What i will say is that i seen alot of miss stories with the century trans and alot of people contact me about them.

[desertg8]

Nic D was nice enough to look at my entire tune at no charge. He made some changes and I appreciate that. The transmission cooler I have in was one that was recommended years ago. I know there are way better and bigger ones out there now. AlexRi,Procharged1, and I put this one in at the hobby shop of Davis Monthan Air Force Base I think in 2010 or so. What is the best one out now? I will make the investment.

[shane]

Nic D was nice enough to look at my entire tune at no charge. He made some changes and I appreciate that. The transmission cooler I have in was one that was recommended years ago. I know there are way better and bigger ones out there now. AlexRi,Procharged1, and I put this one in at the hobby shop of Davis Monthan Air Force Base I think in 2010 or so. What is the best one out now? I will make the investment.

Anything over 15,000 + should be good.

[Erbby325]

How much does a full rebuild usually run you?

[desertg8]

depends. if you are going completely stock around 2K. more if the solenoid/valve body need replacing. if you start putting in other parts such as a Camaro pan, stronger intermediate shafts, new pumps, etc. it can go over 4K. but with the basics 2k give or take a couple of hundred dollars. pace performance used to have a smoking deal. a new transmission at 1500 plus 100 shipping. now it is 2k plus 100 shipping.

[G8GT721]

I have a Century built and will be swapping to all stock clutches with one extra. I think I read a post that says I don't need to machine anything if century built previously. What are the clearances?

[D00by]

I rebuilt mine myself and for the 3-5-R pack I went with between .050 and .080 if I can remember right. Thats using stock clutches, taking out the waved plate, and machining the clutch stand. You may want to ask Rick C or Century to verify.

[G8GT721]

I pmed g8-4spd last night that's rick c right?


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[Doug Hilliard]

I pmed g8-4spd last night that's rick c right?

Correct; Rick is G8-4-Speed.