Stock Subs Wired Incorrectly from Factory!

[Brad]

I have a ’09 G8 GT and I have been disappointed with the stereo since I bought the car. I have always thought that any stereo with two 8’s in the rear deck that there should be more. After playing with all the radio settings and playing different types of music, I could not seem the get that punch that ought to be there (well as much as can be expected for a stock system). It always sounds “off”. I was about to go ahead and pull out the stock stuff like a lot of people have, but I was having one last overview of the system before I spent money on it, but it dawned on me that the “off” sound was like the system was out of phase.

Well I am happy to report that I have solved the crappy stock stereo mystery (at least on my vehicle). The two subs in the rear deck are out of phase with the speakers driven by the head unit. After doing a quick swap of the wire position on each sub, WOW the system absolutely cranks compared to before.

On my car I switched the position of the yellow and green wire on each sub so now the yellow wires are closest to the rear seat and the green wires are closer to the tail lights.

Man - give it a try before upgrading, you might be surprised and save some money……

[1stGXPmaggie2.3]

Youve got to be kidding. Awesome find.

[iisme13]

How did you do it. Unsauder it?

[Brad]

yep. Grab a soldering gun, unsolder swap to opposite terminals and re-solder. Little difficult to get yourself into possition. Dont let the hot stuff hit you in that face:thumbsup: But ohh so worth it!

[iisme13]

I'll just cut them and do quick disconnect connectors.

[Eidolon]

Nice find! I'll have to try this.

[Tommy G]

I'm not surprised. I think it might be poor placement in relation to the other speakers. Spent many hours fine tuning my system and found that the rear deck sounded best when out of phase and with extra "distance" placed in with time alignment, even when my rear deck speakers are only playing very narrow midbass frequencies.

[Eidolon]

Right, so it's not an incorrect connection. The overall system just wasn't really tuned for the driver's hearing. This explains why I can leeeean my head further back on some techno songs and, hey, the bass is back in phase!

[MY SRM GXP]

Does this really work?

[Tommy G]

Right, so it's not an incorrect connection. The overall system just wasn't really tuned for the driver's hearing. This explains why I can leeeean my head further back on some techno songs and, hey, the bass is back in phase!

yep, zactly

[MY SRM GXP]

I'll give it a try!

[J Wikoff]

Maybe this will help check to see if it's wired right before cutting or soldering.


Hmm. Looking at my stock subs on the shelf, the yellow wire is soldered to the + post, and green to the - post.

So (if those are labeled and wired right), for the right rear, the dark green is + and should connect to the yellow wire, and the light blue with black stripe should be - and connected to the green wire.

For the left rear, the dark blue with white stripe is +, connected to the yellow wire. And the light green with black stripe is - and should be connected to the green wire.

For me to know if mine were right, I'd have to take the rear deck off because I left the stock baffles are still in place with the point, where the yellow/green are connected to the other wires, is stuck to the sides.

You can save yourself the trouble of cutting or soldering just to test it if you have a multimeter. Probe what should be the matching pins at the amp connector and posts of the subs. There will be 2 ohm resistave continuity between the sub posts, so the pin and the post it is wired to will have a few ohms resistance less than between the same pin and the opposite post.

http://www.jhp.com.au/g8partsdirect/InteriorAccessories/ampconninfo2.gif

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b184/jwikoff99/G8/0828112200b.jpg

[travis gore]

Thanks Brad I will have to look at mine tonight.

[firstdue]

I just did each sub...switched wires. I was able to turn my amp back to the middle notch and my bass settings to +3. (I had my amp almost to max and my bass at +4 before) Its hard to tell right now how much of a difference until i can get it out on the road and listen ....sitting in the garage seems to have different acoustics. It does appear to be clearer....less distortion when turned up, i was into the 30's and 40's with very little distortion. It could be my imagination but i seem to hear a little more bass from the door speakers now. Hopefully it'll dry up here soon so i can get her out on the road and really listen.

[djerickd]

this man is a genius! thank you so much Brad!!

[firstdue]

I just had mine out for a drive. I always thought it sounded ok with the windows up at volumes between 20-30...but roll the windows down and turn the volume up a little more and the sound became what another member best described as "muddy". Now at driving speeds with windows down...volumes between 30-40 the system sounds great. I turned my amp back to the mid-level so i don't have any "thumping" or any rattles what so ever (never had any rattles to begin with). Cd's and my mp3 player still seem to be the best audio source but XM and the FM radio seem to be much improved as well.

[edfiero]

I'd really like to know if there is some way to test for this problem in my car, before I resolder the wires. I put the ohm meter on the wires last night, and couldn't tell any difference in the reading. Didn't seem like any resistance on either terminal to either plug connection (D-BU/WH or L-GR/BK). So since I was in trunk already, I tried turning up the sub amp last night since I've seen so many people talk about how great that mod is and to me sounds like crap turned up. I even backed off the bass setting in the head unit, and it was still vibrating the hell out of everything with the volumn less than 20. I put it back to the original setting.

Also asked on the "other" board but never clearly answered was whether or not both speakers were wired wrong or only 1. Generally "Out of Phase" would mean that one is wrong while the other is right. Or is the issue that Each Sub is out of Phase with the Door Speakers? So left sub out of phase with left door and, right sub out of phase with right door??? Again - how do we test for this?

[Eidolon]

I'd really like to know if there is some way to test for this problem in my car, before I resolder the wires. I put the ohm meter on the wires last night, and couldn't tell any difference in the reading.

This thread really needs to be retitled. SO let me say this in bold...

THE SUBS ARE NOT WIRED INCORRECTLY.

The way the subs are hooked up is entirely correct by all rules of wiring and circuitry. Your multimeter will read no differently regardless of how you connect it. It may even read no resistance because a speaker is what is called an "inductive" load. It has a resistance to AC current, but little or none to DC.

The way the system is installed in our cars, however, the system is not tuned. What does this mean? This means that the bass from your front speakers stands to cancel out or interfere with the bass from your subwoofers. See the Interference article at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_%28wave_propagation%29) for the explanation on wave interference.

Rewiring the subs as the OP has suggested inverts the phase of the subwoofers. To get technical, it shifts it by 180 degrees. This changes the way in which it interacts with the front speakers and, as it so happens in this car, it seems to result in an improvement.

Mind, it still won't be perfect. The only way to get it perfect is to get a specific EQ or tuning box, run ALL of the channels through that, and specifically adjust the delays at each speaker so that the waveform from each hits your listening space at the exact same time.

[Eidolon]

By the way, I actually recommend checking out the same thread over at G8Board. They've got a longer thread going with some more tests and details.

http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50664&highlight=stock+subs

[J Wikoff]

The way the subs are hooked up is entirely correct by all rules of wiring and circuitry. Your multimeter will read no differently regardless of how you connect it. It may even read no resistance because a speaker is what is called an "inductive" load. It has a resistance to AC current, but little or none to DC.

I got curious and tested my subs last night. I got 2.6 ohms across the terminals of both stock subs.

[Calais57]

This thread really needs to be retitled. SO let me say this in bold...

THE SUBS ARE NOT WIRED INCORRECTLY.

The way the subs are hooked up is entirely correct by all rules of wiring and circuitry. Your multimeter will read no differently regardless of how you connect it. It may even read no resistance because a speaker is what is called an "inductive" load. It has a resistance to AC current, but little or none to DC.

The way the system is installed in our cars, however, the system is not tuned. What does this mean? This means that the bass from your front speakers stands to cancel out or interfere with the bass from your subwoofers. See the Interference article at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_%28wave_propagation%29) for the explanation on wave interference.

Rewiring the subs as the OP has suggested inverts the phase of the subwoofers. To get technical, it shifts it by 180 degrees. This changes the way in which it interacts with the front speakers and, as it so happens in this car, it seems to result in an improvement.

Mind, it still won't be perfect. The only way to get it perfect is to get a specific EQ or tuning box, run ALL of the channels through that, and specifically adjust the delays at each speaker so that the waveform from each hits your listening space at the exact same time.

Eidolon,
This is interesting. Does this mean that those of us that don't want to go the amp and sub box route (because of space issues but also cost) could get big improvement by replacing with decent speakers and free air subs, TOGETHER with an EQ? If so which one would do the job well on a non-amp system?

[I12XLR8]

This thread really needs to be retitled. SO let me say this in bold...

THE SUBS ARE NOT WIRED INCORRECTLY.

The way the subs are hooked up is entirely correct by all rules of wiring and circuitry. Your multimeter will read no differently regardless of how you connect it. It may even read no resistance because a speaker is what is called an "inductive" load. It has a resistance to AC current, but little or none to DC.

The way the system is installed in our cars, however, the system is not tuned. What does this mean? This means that the bass from your front speakers stands to cancel out or interfere with the bass from your subwoofers. See the Interference article at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_%28wave_propagation%29) for the explanation on wave interference.

Rewiring the subs as the OP has suggested inverts the phase of the subwoofers. To get technical, it shifts it by 180 degrees. This changes the way in which it interacts with the front speakers and, as it so happens in this car, it seems to result in an improvement.

Mind, it still won't be perfect. The only way to get it perfect is to get a specific EQ or tuning box, run ALL of the channels through that, and specifically adjust the delays at each speaker so that the waveform from each hits your listening space at the exact same time.

OK. The big question Eidolon...have you or will you reverse your wiring to improve your Techno? I understand the post but want to know if you think it's worth doing!

[I12XLR8]

OK. The big question Eidolon...have you or will you reverse your wiring to improve your Techno? I understand the post but want to know if you think it's worth doing!

OK. I couldn't wait and did the mod - awesome!!! I haven't driven it around yet but I was able to bring the volume up to 40 and it sounded great (not that I often do that but I like to be able to!)

I believe that this is on par with the BASS MOD for stereo improvement.

[Blown396]

40! I think this stereo system sounds like crap at 25 or so. I've never turned it up past that. If, just swapping these pair of wires on the subs makes that much difference Im impressed.

[Eidolon]

OK. The big question Eidolon...have you or will you reverse your wiring to improve your Techno? I understand the post but want to know if you think it's worth doing!

OK. I couldn't wait and did the mod - awesome!!! I haven't driven it around yet but I was able to bring the volume up to 40 and it sounded great (not that I often do that but I like to be able to!)
*snerk* No fair waiting just 5 hours for me to reply! I think it's worth doing, and I plan to try it myself. I've just been tied up with working on the suspension of late.

Someone else posted on G8Board that the wavelength of a 60Hz sound wave is several meters in length, and they're correct. I suppose the minor millisecond delay from the front to the back could cause issues, but it would be minute, and it shouldn't be enough to fully explain the difference that swapping the wires makes. So I'm at a loss. But hey, I'm a computer engineer, not a physicist. :)


Eidolon,
This is interesting. Does this mean that those of us that don't want to go the amp and sub box route (because of space issues but also cost) could get big improvement by replacing with decent speakers and free air subs, TOGETHER with an EQ? If so which one would do the job well on a non-amp system?
The stock subs are paper cone, the stock amp is 50 W. So regardless of the physics behind it, I would say yes, you could get a definite improvement from replacing those components. But you'd want to get not just an EQ, but something that could add delays to different speaker channels to tune it for a specific listening position in the vehicle. Unfortunately, that means rewiring the rest of the speakers, too, so that you could adjust their delays. Doing the subs alone with a delay wouldn't buy you much, and buying an EQ doesn't really give you anything that the stock head unit doesn't already have. An equalizer only boosts or cuts specific frequencies and does not in any way affect time delays.

Then again, considering that I spent the first half of this post shrugging my shoulders, take my advice with a grain of salt.

[travis gore]

40! I think this stereo system sounds like crap at 25 or so. I've never turned it up past that.

my stereo sounds better after the vim. I use an ipod nano and the sound was a lot better then before

I am going to switch my sub wires now and see what happens.

[todds87ss]

After the drive in this AM, with the system at 24 (my personal max), there was less rattle from the rear deck, and what seemed like better bass response. Very easy, effective mod. As has already been stated, this will not fix an inadequate system (if that's how you feel), just make the existing one better.

[I12XLR8]

40! I think this stereo system sounds like crap at 25 or so. I've never turned it up past that. If, just swapping these pair of wires on the subs makes that much difference Im impressed.

Get ready to be impressed! :brock: Like Todd I had the great pleasure of driving the car in this morning and on two songs had the volume over 40 and it sounded great! In the past if I heard a sound I wanted to REALLY get into I would roll up the windows to experience the bass. This morning I was able to turn it up with the windows down and still FEEL the music. Incredible!


*snerk* No fair waiting just 5 hours for me to reply!

I know, I know. But after reading the posts on the other board I just had to try it...


After the drive in this AM, with the system at 24 (my personal max), there was less rattle from the rear deck, and what seemed like better bass response. Very easy, effective mod. As has already been stated, this will not fix an inadequate system (if that's how you feel), just make the existing one better.

This mod should make it into the Free Mod link so new guys can see this as soon as they get on the forum. I will be recommending it!!!!

[SpeedRacerX]

OK, I suck at soldering but I did this yesterday.

Made a small roadtrip with my son last night and then to work today. Definite improvement. Base hits cleaner and therefore can be cranked a little louder without the distortion. Some of the rattle from the back is gone too which must not have been the deck, it must have been distortion or muddling...

Cool little mod.

[SRG963]

This mod should make it into the Free Mod link so new guys can see this as soon as they get on the forum. I will be recommending it!!!!

I'll add this to the list, although I refuse to do this mod lol.

My car sounds great as it sits, at any volume.

[rjones916]

Did this yesterday, took all of a couple minutes, definitely sounds clearer! Just what I was looking for. I have Infiniti kappa speakers on all the doors and tweeters and have them amped and I thought the subs sounded muddy in comparison to the crystal clear music, of course. It sounds a lot better now, not like blown away better, but improved, good enough for now, I don't like a ton of bass anyway.

-Ryan

[Calais57]

I am a novice at car audio. So I'm sorry if this a dumb question!!

I have purchased some Kicker 8" subs to replace the stock shelf units. (I am not installing an amp at this stage - maybe later).

I am assuming the above info about wiring only relates to the stock subs, and not replacements?

[PaFromFL]

After reading this thread, it wasn't clear to me whether the sub wiring was actually reversed, or some weird acoustic interaction just made the subs sound better reversed.

Today I grabbed my oscilloscope, function generator, and a microphone to settle the question. The function generator output was displayed on the oscilloscope and plugged into the aux input. The microphone output was also displayed for comparison. The sound from each speaker was isolated by placing the microphone on the grille.

After comparing the speaker output at 80, 100, and 120 Hz, it appears that the sub wiring (at least on my car) is indeed reversed relative to the other speakers. I used a sine wave to test because the system messes up the phase enough to distort square waves and pulses (probably not audible, given the design of the ear).

The weak center speaker output appeared have harmonics riding on top of the signal so I'm guessing it is not happy with lower frequencies. I guess I'll have to warm up my soldering iron this weekend.

[PaFromFL]

... I guess I'll have to warm up my soldering iron this weekend...

The soldering task was very easy thanks to the generous amount of solder used by the factory. The low frequency response sounds better now that the speakers are not fighting each other near the crossover frequency.

[GXPaycheck]

If you don't like soldering you can just turn the plug upside down at the sub. It does make it sound better.

[20lbbooster]

I did this mod today. Big improvement.

[Seattle09GT]

Well of course the wiring is wrong. It was upside down and backwards being built in Australia ;)

I need to do this mod.

[I12XLR8]

Well of course the wiring is wrong. It was upside down and backwards being built in Australia ;)

I need to do this mod.

Lol

[JonnyG2132]

Can someone please post pics of what I would have to do for this mod? If its possible to do this without soldering, please show me how. If I have to solder, i will have to have someone else do it.

Thanks
Jon

[768MPH]

Yeah, I just did the Bass boost and the solder trick to my system and I must say it is like Night and Day. This should have come from the factory this way. I am no longer limited to level 25, I have had up to 35 and it just asked for more with no distortion!
What a great weekend!

[JAM]

Can someone please post pics of what I would have to do for this mod? If its possible to do this without soldering, please show me how. If I have to solder, i will have to have someone else do it.

Thanks
Jon

Search as there are 2 sets of instructions with pics on how to do this w/o soldering. One requires pulling the rear seat, the other seems easier - swapping the wires at the battery in the trunk (http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56654).

JAM

[PaFromFL]

Search as there are 2 sets of instructions with pics on how to do this w/o soldering. One requires pulling the rear seat, the other seems easier - swapping the wires at the battery in the trunk (http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56654).JAM

"Swapping the wires to the amplifier near the battery" is a safer way to describe it.

[Eidolon]

I just did this tonight. It actually does help. Mind, it's not turning crappy 50W subs into a 500W set, but it helps. :) The bass is now better aligned with the music, so it comes through nice and strong, whereas before the system was definitely fighting itself. Car still rattles like crazy, though. I need to get some Damplifier...

This song is a good test of the difference (the bikini-clad woman has nothing to do with it), though the quality of this video is lacking. But the bass hits in this techno song are intentionally off-beat. With the stock setup, the system fights itself and bass almost sounds like it's "burping". With the switch, it's back in sync.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5tHYdhNI_U

[Grumpy6L]

I have a ’09 G8 GT and I have been disappointed with the stereo since I bought the car. I have always thought that any stereo with two 8’s in the rear deck that there should be more. After playing with all the radio settings and playing different types of music, I could not seem the get that punch that ought to be there (well as much as can be expected for a stock system). It always sounds “off”. I was about to go ahead and pull out the stock stuff like a lot of people have, but I was having one last overview of the system before I spent money on it, but it dawned on me that the “off” sound was like the system was out of phase.

Well I am happy to report that I have solved the crappy stock stereo mystery (at least on my vehicle). The two subs in the rear deck are out of phase with the speakers driven by the head unit. After doing a quick swap of the wire position on each sub, WOW the system absolutely cranks compared to before.

On my car I switched the position of the yellow and green wire on each sub so now the yellow wires are closest to the rear seat and the green wires are closer to the tail lights.

Man - give it a try before upgrading, you might be surprised and save some money……

Hey Brad,

Awesome!!

I just thought I would give this a try on my SSV and it made a noticeable diffference, the bass has more punch.

I wasnt really dissapointed with the stereo as it is stock after all but did think that two 8" subs should have more kick than that.

Good find man, nice work

[Grumpy6L]

I just did this tonight. It actually does help. Mind, it's not turning crappy 50W subs into a 500W set, but it helps. :) The bass is now better aligned with the music, so it comes through nice and strong, whereas before the system was definitely fighting itself. Car still rattles like crazy, though. I need to get some Damplifier...

This song is a good test of the difference (the bikini-clad woman has nothing to do with it), though the quality of this video is lacking. But the bass hits in this techno song are intentionally off-beat. With the stock setup, the system fights itself and bass almost sounds like it's "burping". With the switch, it's back in sync.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5tHYdhNI_U

Man that is a really average / gay song to test your stereo with. LOL

Try something with some real bass, something with a solid kick drum like Metallica or some drum & bass tunes, old school techno

[I12XLR8]

Intergalactic by the Beasty Boys is a great bass test song...


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[Svendingo]

Thanks! I did this and the bass mod at the same time... MAJOR improvement. Quiets down alot of the rattles from over driving the subs to compensate, but you do get other resonances you never had before. Regardless, it's a big improvement.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Jae]

Here's my fix... :)

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2

[JBruckhoff]

I finally took the time to do this. It sounds so much better! I wish I would have done this the day I got the car.

[brewski]

Am I getting conflicting storys, on the above. My wires are yellow toward tail lights,green toward rear seat,from what I have read this this is out phase? If I wire it back to phase will it destroy the bass? I am confused....

[wachs]

Maybe this will help check to see if it's wired right before cutting or soldering.

So I checked this out and everything ohmed out to what the diagram says. My question is should I reverse it or leave it now.

[jcmGT]

It's not like swapping wires in hard, takes few minutes. Swap and have a listen - go with which you feel sounds better.

[madmax032]

Thank you! This made an unbelievable difference in my G8's low frequency response.

[BamaZ28]

So, there's adjustments that can be made on a stock amplifier? I have a 2008 G8 GT, and would like to check this out. I never knew there were adjustable points on the stock system! Sweet!

[J Wikoff]

Just feel for the dial on the bottom of the amp by the battery.

[bhunter0830]

I did this and it’s night and day difference. I switch the wires and turned the amp up to 75% (guesstimate). It’s not like having a sub in the trunk but definitely makes a difference from the factory set up!


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