Kooks Axelbacks Version 2- Another Opinion

[the_marquis78]

So I got the version 2 axelbacks in the mail yesterday and was looking forward to putting them on. I've been running my stocks since I sent the V1's in to Kooks. I take off one muffler, put the new one on, go to put the tip on to it and the freaking tip does not fit the new muffler!!!! What the hell!?!?

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/the_marquis78/DSCN0681.jpg

This is the new muffler. It's so exciting and shiny!

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/the_marquis78/DSCN0682.jpg

This is the tip.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/the_marquis78/DSCN0683.jpg

This is as together as they go.

Seriously?? SERIOUSLY?? Please tell me that someone at Kooks, when they made the Version 2 of the axelbacks, said, "hey let's make sure that this new muffler will fit the tips we designed for it." Apparently that person was on break. Of course it's Saturday and no one answers there so I have to take it all back apart and wait till Monday. Awesome...thanks again Kooks!

[roSSco]

Bummer!

[wreckwriter]

Somehow I'm not shocked.

[-Ray-]

Fuck. Sorry to hear that. I'm sure they will too.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

:(

[the_marquis78]

Somehow I'm not shocked.

I had a feeling you wouldn't be.

[the_marquis78]

I was seriously this close to singing Kooks praises too considering that they didn't try to charge anyone for "upgrading" the axelbacks...and you'd better believe I'm withholding those praises...

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I'm still waiting on a call ticket that was promised to me before Thanksgiving. Go figure.

[the_marquis78]

a call ticket? what's that?

[G8GT594]

That sucks dude. Although shit happens sometimes. Sorry to hear that it happened to you. I love my setup, but hey if you dont want drone, don't get exhaust simple as that.

[GFORCE1320]

a call ticket? what's that?

A call ticket is a shipping pick up order for FedEx/UPS to come pick it up and send it back.

I'm sure Kooks will get it right.

[the_marquis78]

ah, i get ya. I actually think Kooks will get it right. It's just surprising that we've really had to go through so much w/ them to get to that stage...and we're not even there yet!

[Andy@Livernois]

Maybe i am skewed a little bit, but I am certain that Kooks will get everything figured out... Plain and simple the are an awesome company with great products... We are a big enough company that we can do a buy in with whomever we like and Kooks has been what we have been happiest with in terms of performance and fitment. I am sorry that this has happened.

Do me a favor if you will, Call George R. @ kooks and let him know what's up, he is the man, and will make certain everything is right... I will also call him on monday and direct him here.

[the_marquis78]

That sucks dude. Although shit happens sometimes. Sorry to hear that it happened to you. I love my setup, but hey if you dont want drone, don't get exhaust simple as that.

WTF?! Did I ever mention drone? I am talking about assuring that your engineering is sound. I am talking designed a product and then taking 10 minutes to make sure it actually lines up right to the rest of the product. Thanks for addressing an issue that nobody brought up.


Maybe i am skewed a little bit, but I am certain that Kooks will get everything figured out... Plain and simple i feel they are THE best out there... We are a big enough company that we can do a buy in with whomever we like and Kooks has been by far the best performing/fitting stuff, and their workmanship is awesome. I am sorry that this has happened.

Do me a favor if you will, Call George R. @ kooks and let him know what's up, he is the man, and will make certain everything is right... I will also call him on monday and direct him here.

Like I said, I think they'll get it right. I didn't figure this all out until about 12:00 MST which means it was 2 on the east coast so no one answered at Kooks or at MarylandSpeed. Hopefully I can get ahold of em next week sometime but I have a feeling it's all going to be screwed up because of Christmas.

[GRRRR8]

I think as many do, ARH makes an excellent product and knew better then to mess with the mufflers. Headers are headers. Mufflers are not.

[Andy@Livernois]

Like I said, I think they'll get it right. I didn't figure this all out until about 12:00 MST which means it was 2 on the east coast so no one answered at Kooks or at MarylandSpeed. Hopefully I can get ahold of em next week sometime but I have a feeling it's all going to be screwed up because of Christmas.

If you can't let me know... I can call George on his cell phone from work if need be... (I don't have his number otherwise I would have already called for you)

[the_marquis78]

Thanks for your concern. I'll give em a ring on Monday and see if I can talk to someone. I'm guessing I'll be able to. If not I'll let ya know for sure.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Yea, I'm in the same boat, just trying to get my call ticket. I want to have the Gen II's on when it heads up north for the work. ;)

[G8GT594]

WTF?! Did I ever mention drone? I am talking about assuring that your engineering is sound. I am talking designed a product and then taking 10 minutes to make sure it actually lines up right to the rest of the product. Thanks for addressing an issue that nobody brought up.

.

Hey, thanks for the smartass attitude. I was simply going off of what everyone was talking about with the axlebacks, and that is drone.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

If you reread your post it did seem like you were a little on the offensive. Hey, you have them and you like them....More power to you. We had issues with them and are still having issues. Livernois backs them as they sell them and have probably sold more then enough of their product over the years to get a good discount, and a good profit margin. I get no profit margin.....Just unhappiness with a product I have spent a good deal of money on and some hunks of worthless to me stainless steel sitting in a box in my garage and not on my car where I could enjoy them .......If they didn't make me cringe every time I throttle the car. Remember when you read or write something you can't really tell emotion, feeling...whatever. It's just what you assume to be a smartass response. For me...I don't expect it not to have some drone at over 400HP......But I do expect it not to feel like I'm in a dentist chair with the drill running when I drive the damn thing.

[G8GT594]

If you reread your post it did seem like you were a little on the offensive. Hey, you have them and you like them....More power to you. We had issues with them and are still having issues. Livernois backs them as they sell them and have probably sold more then enough of their product over the years to get a good discount, and a good profit margin. I get no profit margin.....Just unhappiness with a product I have spent a good deal of money on and some hunks of worthless to me stainless steel sitting in a box in my garage and not on my car where I could enjoy them .......If they didn't make me cringe every time I throttle the car. Remember when you read or write something you can't really tell emotion, feeling...whatever. It's just what you assume to be a smartass response. For me...I don't expect it not to have some drone at over 400HP......But I do expect it not to feel like I'm in a dentist chair with the drill running when I drive the damn thing.

O trust me, i re-read my post. It is in no way offensive. I felt bad for the guy and I was merely making a comment and assuming the whole reason for even getting Version 2 was because of the drone in the first place. This is exactly the kinda crap that is making me want to leave this place.
-Paul

[the_marquis78]

Wow talk about sensitive. Yeah I was being a smartass...I'll be perfectly honest. But you brought up something that hasn't even been mentioned and has no place in THIS discussion. It would be like saying to someone who is upset about something breaking down on their car, "if you don't want car issues you shouldn't have purchased a car." It's not really a helpful insight to the current topic. Just to make sure we all know, the current topic is that a manufacturer sent me a product that did not fit correctly to the rest of their products. Let's keep it on topic...

[Andy@Livernois]

Livernois backs them as they sell them and have probably sold more then enough of their product over the years to get a good discount, and a good profit margin.

Just to clarify we don't make good margin on Kook's, we do sell a crap load of it, but I can guarantee we make about 1-2% TOPS after credit card processing fees... Trust me, we would make more money selling about any other brand then kooks and could easily handle a buy in with stainless works, arh, JBA, whomever. But we are in a unique situation @ livernois. We have installed every header system out there, on just about every late model GM, Ford, and Hemi car. Repeatedly our mechanics tell us things they don't like about other systems and they way they installed, were made, etc... So we use kooks unless someone demands something else (which hasn't happened to me in over 3 years) Or if the customer brings us pre-purchased parts.

Every company can have hiccups, I am merely stating that The G8 stuff is the only stuff I know of that Kooks makes that ANYONE has issues with. There is a learning curve with every new product, headers, intakes, whatever. sometimes they are big curves, sometimes little. I also was offering my help to someone that purchased a product from a competitor of ours and to boot a non-board sponsor. I want these things taken care of, and feedback is the only way to do it. Plus I was summarizing WHY we use kooks and why we recommend them...

Also I would like to add that In all of my years in the industry I have NEVER heard of a company taking back all of the old product and swapping it for new. Even sending out call tags to boot...

So please, I want everyone to understand the meaning of my posts, I am simply providing contacts that I know will help and offering up my own help to further assist.

Thanks,
Andy

P.S. guys, don't be bickering, it does no one any good... It's only the internet

[99-LS1-SS]

P.S. guys, don't be bickering, it does no one any good... It's only the internet

Very good advice. Let's all just take a deep breath and relax.
:banana::banana:

[GTPprix]

P.S. guys, don't be bickering, it does no one any good... It's only the internet

And the internet is for porn.

[Chewy]

P.S. guys, don't be bickering, it does no one any good... It's only the internet

And it won't be tolerated on THIS site like it is on the other site!

Lets just let it go and move on. Reading what someone typed can be taken out of context WAY to easily! Use more emoticons to help get your points across.

[lawyerboyleslie]

And the internet is for porn.

LOL, except at work. Or wait, can you delete that and not have the IT guy find it later?

[GRRRR8]

And the internet is for porn.

I cant get that video out of my head everytime I hear that phrase! lol

[GTPprix]

I cant get that video out of my head everytime I hear that phrase! lol

Avenue Q rocks ;)

[jbradsh1]

O trust me, i re-read my post. It is in no way offensive. I felt bad for the guy and I was merely making a comment and assuming the whole reason for even getting Version 2 was because of the drone in the first place. This is exactly the kinda crap that is making me want to leave this place.
-Paul

Can we expect some 1/4 mile times from you in the near future? I'm looking at getting the Livernois stage ! cam package this spring and I'd like to see how well you do. When you get around to it, could you also post some before 1/4 mile times & speeds also. Thanks. And good for you.

[G8GT594]

Can we expect some 1/4 mile times from you in the near future? I'm looking at getting the Livernois stage ! cam package this spring and I'd like to see how well you do. When you get around to it, could you also post some before 1/4 mile times & speeds also. Thanks. And good for you.

For sure! Prolly in the spring time when the track opens again though. Living in MI does suck lol.

[Andy@Livernois]

Hey guys, i just talked to George Jr. @ kooks, he said the only thing that should be causing the issue is the "squeeze" from the first time of assembly. Basically when its tightened on it compresses the pipe of the tip, and the muffler. So if it's used on a new muffler it will need to be expanded back out to size (which it no big deal, Autozone and the like rent the tool) or he did say you are more then welcome to call kooks to get the RGA to send them in and they will make sure everything fits perfectly and send it back out.

Also for future reference anyone that is sending in the V1 system, you can send your tips in and they will do this for you as well...

I hope this helps, pm me if there is anything else I can help you with...

[A.R. Headers]

Andy, I really hate to bring this up but I don't ever recall Livernois purchasing ARH systems. You've been loyal to Kook's from the start which is fine. If you've had opportunities to see our systems it's been because I've sent my customers to you based on your excellent rep, which I happen to respect. Having said that, if Livernois ever made a true unbiased assessment of all our header systems then I guarantee you you'd have a very different point of view. A quick google search will clearly reveal that ARH's reputation for quality, at the very least, rivals or in most cases surpasses our competition.

Nick

Nick

[GRRRR8]

Nick I am glad you made that post. A reminder to all about saying better or best. YOU CANT!!!! That has been a rule since day 1 and I am at fault for not enforcing it, but it really is just these consistant comments from the same person about KOOKS. Let this be the last time I have to do this PLEASE!!!

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I'm sure they checked it out Nick....When I had mine in there.;) There is definately nothing not to like about the ARH system and your great customer service. If someone would only come out with some great mufflers to let the rumble out I will be a happy camper. Hopefully Corsa and your exhaust will be a good match.

[-Ray-]

Edit: My previous post was not on topic.

[Andy@Livernois]

Andy, I really hate to bring this up but I don't ever recall Livernois purchasing ARH systems. You've been loyal to Kook's from the start which is fine. If you've had opportunities to see our systems it's been because I've sent my customers to you based on your excellent rep, which I happen to respect. Having said that, if Livernois ever made a true unbiased assessment of all our header systems then I guarantee you you'd have a very different point of view. A quick google search will clearly reveal that ARH's reputation for quality, at the very least, rivals or in most cases surpasses our competition.

Nick

Nick

Nick, send me a pm regarding this...

Thanks,
Andy

[jbradsh1]

For sure! Prolly in the spring time when the track opens again though. Living in MI does suck lol.

Thanks, I'll look forward to it.

[the_marquis78]

Well, here's the update. Andy was right. I also talked to Kooks and it makes sense why I ran into trouble because the system had already been clamped once and so it's not like it's got extra room to expand once it's been clamped. I think I talked to Chris over at Kooks and he was super nice and helpful. He gave me a couple options: I could send the tips in to them and they would take care of it (not my first choice because it would take a couple weeks plus shipping costs). I could try and bend the tip myself but I was unable to do w/out the right tools. The last option was to take it to a muffler shop who could do it in a minute or two.

I took to Midas by my house and the entire thing took 5 minutes. From me walking in their door to putting the axelbacks into my trunk was 5 minutes. At that point it was sorta awkward because they were dead slow and I knew they weren't doing anything else that day but I felt like I should at least ask, "What do I owe you?" This is my favorite part of the story. The guy says, "Do you have any cash on you?" I seriously just sat there for 10 seconds in semi-disbelief. Did he really just go there? I said yes and he suggested $20. I thought to myself, Wow! Do they normally make $400/hour? Cuz if so I really should start working there. I didn't say that and as it turns out I only had $10 cash on me so that's what they got.

I got the new axelbacks on and the drone isn't gone but it's more livable. It's probably not quite as good as I hoped but it will do. It's been snowing like crazy here for the past day or 2 so I've had trouble actually testing it well but my drive to work today was the best opportunity to test it.

So it is hard to blame Kooks in this scenario now knowing exactly what happened but when I talked to them on the phone originally they said they only needed the axelbacks, nothing more, nothing less. I'm sure they would have taken care of it had I sent the tips in but they didn't mention that to start off. All and all though they have been pretty good to me though so I guess the moral of the story is, yeah, there was a hiccup but it's taken care of now and they were genuinely concerned about my situation which is a good feeling.

[G8GT594]

Glad you got it taken care of! If you can, let me know how it sounds like cruising at 70-75. Thats when the drone gets pretty bad for me.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Well, here's the update. Andy was right. I also talked to Kooks and it makes sense why I ran into trouble because the system had already been clamped once and so it's not like it's got extra room to expand once it's been clamped. I think I talked to Chris over at Kooks and he was super nice and helpful. He gave me a couple options: I could send the tips in to them and they would take care of it (not my first choice because it would take a couple weeks plus shipping costs). I could try and bend the tip myself but I was unable to do w/out the right tools. The last option was to take it to a muffler shop who could do it in a minute or two.

I took to Midas by my house and the entire thing took 5 minutes. From me walking in their door to putting the axelbacks into my trunk was 5 minutes. At that point it was sorta awkward because they were dead slow and I knew they weren't doing anything else that day but I felt like I should at least ask, "What do I owe you?" This is my favorite part of the story. The guy says, "Do you have any cash on you?" I seriously just sat there for 10 seconds in semi-disbelief. Did he really just go there? I said yes and he suggested $20. I thought to myself, Wow! Do they normally make $400/hour? Cuz if so I really should start working there. I didn't say that and as it turns out I only had $10 cash on me so that's what they got.

I got the new axelbacks on and the drone isn't gone but it's more livable. It's probably not quite as good as I hoped but it will do. It's been snowing like crazy here for the past day or 2 so I've had trouble actually testing it well but my drive to work today was the best opportunity to test it.

So it is hard to blame Kooks in this scenario now knowing exactly what happened but when I talked to them on the phone originally they said they only needed the axelbacks, nothing more, nothing less. I'm sure they would have taken care of it had I sent the tips in but they didn't mention that to start off. All and all though they have been pretty good to me though so I guess the moral of the story is, yeah, there was a hiccup but it's taken care of now and they were genuinely concerned about my situation which is a good feeling.

That's cool. Any chance of some sound clips once the weather clears?

[the_marquis78]

Glad you got it taken care of! If you can, let me know how it sounds like cruising at 70-75. Thats when the drone gets pretty bad for me.

You can definitely hear it at that speed but it's not as bad as it was. Like I said, for now it's livable. I need to get someone else in the car because my opinion might be different plus it's worse for the people in the back seat so I need to go drive Ms. Daisy around.


That's cool. Any chance of some sound clips once the weather clears?

Sure! Interior or Exterior?

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Both please. I just got off the phone with George Jr, (thanks Andy), and my Kooks will be picked up 2moro.As long as the twang is gone I'll be pretty happy with them. But I'm still going to see what Corsa can do for us as well, because everyone has different tastes.

[Andy@Livernois]

It was actually George R. you spoke to, but not biggie :D I am glad I could help... Now make that appointment... :D

[MarylandSpeed]

I posted this on another forum..and I thought I would post it here to-

In all fairness...at least once a week we have someone call because they bought an exhaust and don't like the sound..and want to return it. Sound is very subjective...I sell exhaust all day I would not put on my own car, but other people love. While people like to whip the Kooks axleback here...there are customers with both the V1 & V2 setup that like it.

In the industry..the two rules of thumb are..a.) once something is installed, it's yours, and b.) Sound is never warrantied or guaranteed because of how subjective it is. I have people install Borla, Corsa, SLP, Magnaflow or whatever...and not like it. The bottom line is 99.95% of the time..they are stuck with it, and have to sell it online themselves. In this case, Kooks is spending money to try and find a medium where more people like the exhaust with the stock X-pipe and manifolds...even though it was tuned to work with their headers.

Basically..what I am saying..is while it sucks the tip did not fit...the flip side is..if that was any other manufacturer's exhaust..and he did not like the sound..he would be stuck with it..and never even gotten a second to begin with.

[GRRRR8]

Well said and thats a very good point also.

[the_marquis78]

I posted this on another forum..and I thought I would post it here to-

In all fairness...at least once a week we have someone call because they bought an exhaust and don't like the sound..and want to return it. Sound is very subjective...I sell exhaust all day I would not put on my own car, but other people love. While people like to whip the Kooks axleback here...there are customers with both the V1 & V2 setup that like it.

In the industry..the two rules of thumb are..a.) once something is installed, it's yours, and b.) Sound is never warrantied or guaranteed because of how subjective it is. I have people install Borla, Corsa, SLP, Magnaflow or whatever...and not like it. The bottom line is 99.95% of the time..they are stuck with it, and have to sell it online themselves. In this case, Kooks is spending money to try and find a medium where more people like the exhaust with the stock X-pipe and manifolds...even though it was tuned to work with their headers.

Basically..what I am saying..is while it sucks the tip did not fit...the flip side is..if that was any other manufacturer's exhaust..and he did not like the sound..he would be stuck with it..and never even gotten a second to begin with.

Not sure if this is Kirk or Andrew from MarylandSpeed (or someone else) and I'll be the first to agree w/ you. I thought it was pretty good of Kooks to take back their product and modify it. Like I said in my first post, I was *this* close to singing them praises and I hope I've communicated that they have indeed been pretty good w/ me. I realize their motivations for doing this are to keep people happy and that's pretty awesome.

Now I never asked for a refund or asked to return the product. I realized, like you state, that I bought it and it was mine after that point. In fact, I never complained about the drone and if you read back on some of my posts about the system I defended Kooks and their product. The fact that they engineered a Version2 of a product does show that they realized they didn't get it right the first time and my involvement at that point was "how can I get this new and improved product." And that started the whole process of sending it back. Anyways...i'll quit rambling now

[wreckwriter]

I guess I'm odd, I like the sound of my Kooks system. Yea, I guess it drones but in my experience that's just what header systems sound like.

[the_marquis78]

yeah you might be. For me part of the reason I got this car is I'm single and active so I'm always going places w/ my friends and I'm almost always the one to drive. I almost always prefer driving so I'm usually taking people w/ me. With the other system in my car a few people commented that it was difficult to carry on a conversation and it wasn't that pleasant to be in the backseat for any ride longer than a few minutes. A lot of why I like the G8 is that it's comfortable and I like for my passengers to be comfortable and for me that wins the battle between comfort and performance. So that's why I soundproofed my trunk and was just about to go back to the stock mufflers when I found out they came out w/ new ones.

Honestly if I were in a different stage of life I probably wouldn't care as much and I'd probably be more like how you think. The V1 had an amazing sound minus the drone and I may not have ever thought about changing it if things were different.

[Andy@Livernois]

Trust me, I love the way it sounds too... I think they did a great job. I know everyone that has given me feedback LOVES the way Paul's car sounds. In fact I just had a customer in the shop not less then 10 mintues ago listen to Paul's car, and listen to another customer corvette w/ Corsa, and he couldn't get over how awesome they both sounded, but REALLY favored the Kooks, while some have favored the Corsa...

I am very pleased that we are seeing so many options come out for such a "low volume" car...

[wreckwriter]

A lot of why I like the G8 is that it's comfortable and I like for my passengers to be comfortable and for me that wins the battle between comfort and performance.

I have the same battle but a different winner :)

[the_marquis78]

I have the same battle but a different winner :)

Yeah I figured that actually. No worries though. In the end, we're both happy right?

[Ktlplxm]

This may be a little off topic, but a couple of people have mentioned it. Does Borla or Corsa actually plan on making a production axle back? The last two times I've called, the "tech" says they are not. Before the incident with my car, which a few of you know about, I had tried swapping out the Double walled, rolled, tips from Kooks with a few different designs, and loved the sound afterwards. Just getting away from that style helped tremendously. Of course If Borla or Corsa had readily available axle backs, I'd be more than happy to compare those too.

[-Ray-]

I have 2 Corsa Red dB mufflers coming this week. After I get them welded up, were going to test them out.

Sorry for the hi-jack.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Corsa is making a catback for sure. They are going to do some testing for axle-backs with Tigger somewhere in the near future.

[Darkside]

Corsa is making a catback for sure. They are going to do some testing for axle-backs with Tigger somewhere in the near future.
Let me know if they ever need a second look if they need to. I'm going with SW full exhaust but I'd go over there if it helps speed up the process for everyone else. I'm only about 30 minutes away.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

They're interested in mine because of the motor work that's been done, and the ARH system I already have. They've already had a G8 in for the other testing.

[Andy@Livernois]

Jay who are you working with over there? Maybe bug Paul Santiago and let him know it will be going to our shop... That might get him to expedite something for you :D

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I was working with Gus, but he got layed off :( Now I'm working with Jim Jr. :)