Tips for Russell Stainless Steel Brake Line Install

[Eidolon]

So I'm working to get together the tools that I'll need to install the dba rotors I bought from Wretched Motorsports, and I'll also be ordering a set of Russell Stainless Steel lines to install at the same time.

Any recommended tips or tools for the stainless line install process? The service manual for the car recommends plugging the steel hard line and the caliper to prevent fluid loss. Is there a good means of doing so, like ready-made GM plugs for the process?

Otherwise, I figured I'd situate a bunch of cloths underneath the fitting, tape some against the car underneath the fitting, and then just disconnect and hope for the best. The trick is that I'd likely lose a lot of fluid this way, and I'd like to avoid needing a Tech 2 automated bleed after the process. I'd also really like to avoid getting it on my car!

Thanks for the help, fellow addicts.

[BlackGT5]

Some suggestions:

1) This has been documented before, but the fronts are labeled incorrectly. What is labeled Front passenger is actually the front drivers and the front drivers is actually the front passenger. You will notice it when you look at the brackets.
2) Make sure you use 6 point wrenches when you are removing the connection at the steel line. You want to make sure you have a good hold of the line and not round it off. I forget the wrench sizes but you need one for the steel line and one on the brake hose.
3) Start with the connection at the steel line. Just loosen it to make sure you can take it off. You don't want to remove the hose from the caliper side then struggle to loosen the other end which will result in alot of lost fluid.
4) The black plastic retainer at the center of the hose has a rounded end and a square end. To remove the stock one, you have to turn it about 90° (this should be your last step in removing the stock hoses). To install, the square end goes in first, then you rotate 90° or so to lock in place again.
5) Don't forget to keep the M/C filled with fluid.
6) Replace all of the lines first (front and rear) before doing the rotors/pads. Not really necessary but you don't want to get any brake fluid on new rotors and especially not new pads.

[laserred]

Eidolon, please measure the length of the lines on the Russell kit if you've already bought it. One dirty secret they don't want people knowing is that the hose sizes and fittings are the same, all you have to do is match up length as close as possible and you can buy the braided lines for about $12-13 a piece instead of spending $100+ for the "kit". I'm going to piece this together for mine, will post part numbers and pics when I get to it. Thanks!

[jimmytt6]

Some suggestions:

1) This has been documented before, but the fronts are labeled incorrectly. What is labeled Front passenger is actually the front drivers and the front drivers is actually the front passenger. You will notice it when you look at the brackets.
2) Make sure you use 6 point wrenches when you are removing the connection at the steel line. You want to make sure you have a good hold of the line and not round it off. I forget the wrench sizes but you need one for the steel line and one on the brake hose.
3) Start with the connection at the steel line. Just loosen it to make sure you can take it off. You don't want to remove the hose from the caliper side then struggle to loosen the other end which will result in alot of lost fluid.
4) The black plastic retainer at the center of the hose has a rounded end and a square end. To remove the stock one, you have to turn it about 90° (this should be your last step in removing the stock hoses). To install, the square end goes in first, then you rotate 90° or so to lock in place again.
5) Don't forget to keep the M/C filled with fluid.
6) Replace all of the lines first (front and rear) before doing the rotors/pads. Not really necessary but you don't want to get any brake fluid on new rotors and especially not new pads.

Thx info..getting ready do same thing myself this weekend..So you recommend do SS lines first, then take caliper off to replace rotors and pads? I'm installing DBA rotors and SS lines and new Hawk pads.

thx

[BlackGT5]

Thx info..getting ready do same thing myself this weekend..So you recommend do SS lines first, then take caliper off to replace rotors and pads? I'm installing DBA rotors and SS lines and new Hawk pads.

thx

Yes, I would recommend doing the lines first. Once you do the first one, the others are easier so just keep going :) Also, if you get any brake fluid on the "old" pads and rotors while removing the stock lines and installing the SS lines, it's not a big deal. Plus, once you are done with the lines, you can keep an eye out for any leaks while doing the rest of the brake job.

[J Wikoff]

Definatly use a good flare wrench on the hard-to-soft line nut. Maybe even put the wrench on and clamp some vice grips on the outside of the wrench. If your wrench deforms at all, you are likely to round the nut off and have to get a new line. Ask me how I know...

[NYSS guy]

Getting the flare wrench was the biggest help. I was lucky that I read about it first, but if you use a regular wrench, I can see how you would damage that nut really easy. Good luck.

[Eidolon]

Thanks everyone for all the tips! Keep 'em coming, if you've got any more! Best thing about threads like this is that they're useful to more than the OP.


Eidolon, please measure the length of the lines on the Russell kit if you've already bought it. One dirty secret they don't want people knowing is that the hose sizes and fittings are the same, all you have to do is match up length as close as possible and you can buy the braided lines for about $12-13 a piece instead of spending $100+ for the "kit". I'm going to piece this together for mine, will post part numbers and pics when I get to it. Thanks!

I haven't bought them yet, but I will. I'm not good enough with automotive plumbing - zero experience will do that - to feel comfortable making my own set. Russell is owned by Edelbrock, who've been doing performance GM parts for decades. The Russell hoses also feature niceties like integrated rubber retaining mounts at the halfway point, plus rubber coats on the ends of the lines where they meet the fittings so as to protect the hose (read the last paragraph of this (http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Brake_Lines) for why this matters). They're nice pieces. So I'll be getting them. I intend to track this car later this year, and I don't want my date with destiny to be the result of trying to save a few bucks on the brake hoses.

[Napalm]

FLARE NUT WRENCHES. even the ones sold at autozone are good enough. Better than useing a standard.

or if you have a snap on, cromwell, stahlwhile, mac combo wrench they hold tight enough to work too. I went through this on the GTO early on. the hoses are pulled in tight and you have to get a solid grip on them to get them off.

Not a big deal, but a good wrench saves headaches.

Otherwise the job is simple. Couple of things I do as I work brakes.

I use a mityvac (you can get them anywhere, simple hand vacumn pump) and pull all the fluid out of the resovior. Then I put new fluid in on top. When taking off the lines, I removed the caliper side first and let is drip in a glass jar. I then install the new line, but let the caliper end sit in a glass jar. this lets gravity pull the fluid down into the new line, and even get some of the old out of the system. connect to caliper, tighten. check fluid level (never let the resovior go empty after this point). repeat at other wheels. Then bleed.

You can bleed at each caliper, but I prefer to get them all hooked up first, with pad installed. when installing new calipers I usually tap them with a rubber mallet occasionally during the bleeding. I have had cases where the castings had rough spots that held air during the initial bleed. so I like to tap them a bit, usually I get another air bubble or 2 out of them.

I'm a bit OCD sometimes but I admit it. I hate to have to re-bleed. don't get me started of slave cylinders.

[dapg8gt]

anyone know the sizes of the flare nuts on the line. I know they are metric . Is there two different sizes? Thanks

[Seattle09GT]

Doing mine on Saturday, DBA rotors, Hawk pads, Russell lines, ATE Blue brake fluid - great thread - thanks everyone.

[travis gore]

anyone know the sizes of the flare nuts on the line. I know they are metric . Is there two different sizes? Thanks

I am pretty sure that they are 10 mm

[-Ray-]

I bought crows feet flare wrenches at HF. They even got one that was slightly rounded off.

[Kermit]

G8 Ray,
Can you confirm that the size is 10mm? I too will be doing some brake work just as soon as Greg at Pace gets them out to me.

[-Ray-]

G8 Ray,
Can you confirm that the size is 10mm? I too will be doing some brake work just as soon as Greg at Pace gets them out to me.

I'll look tomorrow.

[pha|anx]

Lots of good information in these few threads lately!

Sent from Hell via my Galaxy S Captivate

[Kermit]

I'll look tomorrow.

Did you forget? :)

[-Ray-]

Did you forget? :)

LOL. Crap, I don't remember.

[Eidolon]

Alright, a few tips I have from doing this this past weekend.

First off, yes, the lines are 10mm. You'll definitely want flare wrenches for it.

Now, the tips. There's an order to them!



Buy some brake line plugs from your local auto parts store. When replacing a line at a corner, first disconnect it from the caliper and then immediately use the line plug to plug the banjo end. The caliper will drip, but the plug in the line will keep it from leaking too heavily and from draining your reservoir.
Now, attach the new Russell line to the caliper using the new copper washers that you got. This way the line is already connected to the caliper.
Now disconnect the old hose from the steel line and then quickly line up the Russell hose and tighten it down. Do it quickly and you'll lose fewer than a dozen drops and get almost none on the car itself. Have a spray bottle full of water on hand to quickly douse the paint to get any drops of brake fluid off.
Tighten everything down to spec and you're done!
Repeat for the remaining 3 corners.


If you're replacing the discs and pads as well, make sure to install the new pads and rotors BEFORE you try to bleed the system. This one probably seems obvious, but I made the mistake of using my pressure bleeder on my system before putting in the new pads and rotors. I didn't think it would be enough pressure to extend the pistons on the calipers, but it was and I think it emptied the master cylinder's reservoir, forcing the fluid into the lines and calipers. I need to make a post asking about that elsewhere...

Anyhoo, those are what I came away with.

[xruling]

So let me just also confirm that the hard side nuts are 10mm, but add that the softsides on the OEM hoses are 19mm in the front, and I believe they were 18mm in the rear. Just did them last Sunday, but the details are already fading ...

[texn884]

I am going to have the Chevy store do the install and brake lines. Just waiting for the SS lines to come from Greg. The rotors are sitting at home. :)

[Napalm]

wuss. You haven't really wrenched on a car until you have gotten used brake fluid into a cut on your hand. a cut you got beating the rusted on iron rotors off the damn spindle.

[Seattle09GT]

wuss. You haven't really wrenched on a car until you have gotten used brake fluid into a cut on your hand. a cut you got beating the rusted on iron rotors off the damn spindle.

Color me wuss - I farmed the work out too.

[GT Drew]

Flex line are fun, but you have not lived until you have replaced hardlines on a car. Bending your own tubing and making it look stock. Hard to do.

[Eidolon]

Flex line are fun, but you have not lived until you have replaced hardlines on a car. Bending your own tubing and making it look stock. Hard to do.
See, now, THAT I'd farm out. I, too, have my wussy limits.

[texn884]

Try getting thinner in cuts all over your hands, lol now that is a PAIN in your HANDS and being hung over. I would fuck up my car more than what I am going to pay the Chevy tech, saving money is how I look at it.

My SS lines shipped today so I will get my goodies installed in a few weeks. :)

[texn884]

Got an apointment Friday at the Chevy store for install of rotors and pads and SS Brake lines.

So are the fronts labeled wrong from what you all have experienced that have installed the lines before?

[wreckwriter]

Got an apointment Friday at the Chevy store for install of rotors and pads and SS Brake lines.

So are the fronts labeled wrong from what you all have experienced that have installed the lines before?

Yes.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

[Napalm]

Flex line are fun, but you have not lived until you have replaced hardlines on a car. Bending your own tubing and making it look stock. Hard to do.

indeed. that is hard core and the only time I have made a hardline was for a 56 Thunderbird.


So are the fronts labeled wrong from what you all have experienced that have installed the lines before?

as in L vs R, or F vs R? I dont know but it should be easy to spot. when doing lines, always lay it up to see if the ends and clamps (holders) meet up.

[Eidolon]

So are the fronts labeled wrong from what you all have experienced that have installed the lines before?

as in L vs R, or F vs R? I dont know but it should be easy to spot. when doing lines, always lay it up to see if the ends and clamps (holders) meet up.
It is front end only, left versus right, that are mislabeled. They are impossible to install incorrectly, though, as the mounting brackets for the car only fit one way. So it's no big deal.

[texn884]

Just to let you know the front brake lines are labeled wrong. I had them installed this morning along with the new rotors and a brake fluid flush.

[newman27]

My G8 GT is at the dealership right now having the DBA rotors and Hawk pads installed. I provided the Russell lines to them as well. I just got a call that the dealership doesn't feel the Russell lines clip into the retaining clips securely enough to be safe. They indicated they could tie them in in some way but that the GM stock brake lines have a better and safer way of securing the brake line to the car so they aren't at risk of being damaged (example given was that if the car hit a really hard bump, the brake line could unclip itself and be exposed to further damage). Anyone else encounter this? BTW, they make more money off me if they do this extra work so I am inclined to believe they have a genuine concern here.

[Eidolon]

I just got a call that the dealership doesn't feel the Russell lines clip into the retaining clips securely enough to be safe.
The retaining clips for the Russell lines are hard plastic, so they don't tend to hold quite like the factory rubber items. I've never had the fronts come unclipped on me, but I have pulled off my rear wheels before to find the Russell lines hanging free. So it's something of a legitimate concern. It's up to you whether you want to try to tackle them, though, or let the dealership handle it. I'm always a proponent of doing the work yourself. :)

[newman27]

The retaining clips for the Russell lines are hard plastic, so they don't tend to hold quite like the factory rubber items. I've never had the fronts come unclipped on me, but I have pulled off my rear wheels before to find the Russell lines hanging free. So it's something of a legitimate concern. It's up to you whether you want to try to tackle them, though, or let the dealership handle it. I'm always a proponent of doing the work yourself. :)

Thank you for the info and the very quick reply! :thumbsup: I do try to work on my cars as much as I can myself so I can relate to your point. I did a full master cylinder / booster / rotor / drum / pad replacement on my '72 Opel GT. I guess the "modern" nature of the G8 GT (e.g., ABS and those fancy computers it has controlling everything :D) scared me off this one. I did replace the spark plugs and wires on the G8 myself and install the Vararam CAI (easy stuff I know) :). Anyway, thanks again for that quick reply. I think I'm going to wimp out on the lines and tell them to keep the GM stock lines for now.

[Eidolon]

I did a full master cylinder / booster / rotor / drum / pad replacement on my '72 Opel GT.
Wow. Now that's a job!


I did replace the spark plugs and wires on the G8 myself and install the Vararam CAI (easy stuff I know) :).
Vararam was the first engine bay mod I ever performed. Moving the radiator all around had me all kinds of squeamish...


Anyway, thanks again for that quick reply. I think I'm going to wimp out on the lines and tell them to keep the GM stock lines for now.
Welcome! The Russell lines don't change the brake feel by much. There's more effect once you're in them than hitting them fresh from a roll, and even then the effect is minimal. So you're not missing a whole lot.

The clips on the Russell lines lock into place by rotating into the claw the car provides. So all you need to do to hold them in place is keep them from rotating. A bit of silicone applied to them as you insert them should, when dry, be good and rubbery to keep them still, but should also still hold loosely enough that you could break them free with some slip-joint pliers should you ever need to remove them.

Of course, on my car, I just put them back into place whenever I see they're loose.

[toedrag]

Did this install over the weekend. My top tips are:
1. For the rears, place a paper towel/rag over over the LCA so that you don't drop a washer into the hollow crevasse...I lost about an hour trying to fish one out, but I did finally get it.

2. For the rears, where the banjo connects to the caliper, make sure that the hose is directed away from the caliper. If the banjo is flipped over, forcing the hose toward the caliper, the metal sleeve/collar can make contact with the caliper body when it's torqued down, which may lead to grinding and an unpleasant outcome later on.

3. At each corner, before you remove the old hose, make sure the master cylinder cap is screwed on. This will help reduce the amount of fluid that you lose; it'll drip instead of flow freely

[matthewo]

not sure if its been said before, but i bought some copper crush washers made for brake banjo bolts from autozone. i didnt like the ones that came with the kit.