Does a rear main seal replacement require an oil change?

[TLS]

Had mine in for 2 days last week to address my rear main seal leak.

My diagnosis was apparently correct, as they replaced it as they put it... "per DOCUMENT# 2506599"

Here is all my Warranty Invoice says:

QTY.......PART #.......DESCRIPTION
1..........88861206.....DYE 8.800
1..........12633579.....HOUSING 0.137
1..........12378521.....SEALANT 8.800

Nowhere does it indicate if they in fact changed the oil.

I'm not familiar enough yet with the LS series of small blocks. On a "normal" SBC, one would find it pretty difficult to NOT drain the oil in a rear main seal replacement as it requires you to drop the rear main bearing cap, etc, etc.

So....do I assume that they DID NOT have to drain the engine oil to do this?

I was getting close to needing a change, and actually put off the job about a month so it was closer to "needing" an oil change.

I guess I could call the dealership and just ask, but figured it'd be easier to sound like a dummy on here!

[silver6.0L]

When the truck had this done they did not change the oil. The G8 is next to get this done also. Gotta love the smell of burning oil residue.

[Crazy Paul]

From the parts listing it shows that they replaced the Rear Main Cover 12633579 (which includes the rear main seal). That in itself is a smart move.
But if you read the documented procedure for the removal and replacement of the rear main cover (copy below), it says you have to also remove and refit the oilpan......which would have then required replacement of the oilpan gasket. No oilpan gasket on their parts list however, so it seems some shortcuts may have been taken.

Neither the replacement of rear main seal or the replacement of rear main cover procedures actually tell you to dump the oil.
You would think that if the oilpan came off they would have dumped the oil first to prevent the possibilty of making a mess and to make putting it back on a whole lot easier.

Bottom line.....you're going to need to ask them about the oil.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/RearCover.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/R1010587.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/R1010588.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/R1010589.jpg

Rear Main Cover Off with Oilpan still fitted....it's possible, but GM instructions tell you to remove the Oilpan.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/290.jpg

[-Ray-]

Had mine in for 2 days last week to address my rear main seal leak.

My diagnosis was apparently correct, as they replaced it as they put it... "per DOCUMENT# 2506599"

Here is all my Warranty Invoice says:

QTY.......PART #.......DESCRIPTION
1..........88861206.....DYE 8.800
1..........12633579.....HOUSING 0.137
1..........12378521.....SEALANT 8.800

Nowhere does it indicate if they in fact changed the oil.

I'm not familiar enough yet with the LS series of small blocks. On a "normal" SBC, one would find it pretty difficult to NOT drain the oil in a rear main seal replacement as it requires you to drop the rear main bearing cap, etc, etc.

So....do I assume that they DID NOT have to drain the engine oil to do this?

I was getting close to needing a change, and actually put off the job about a month so it was closer to "needing" an oil change.

I guess I could call the dealership and just ask, but figured it'd be easier to sound like a dummy on here!

Many of us would have asked that question. That what were here for. G8 for dummy's. I kid I kid.

[TLS]

Thanks all!!

And Paul, once again, you went above and beyond. Good visual of what I would assume is not a well seen part of an LS!

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

They probably loosened the bolts on the oil pan and dropped it down a little to do the rear seal replacement. If they did that hopefully the oil pan gasket doesn't leak. You should be able to tell if they changed the oil by checking the oil life monitor in engineering mode.

[08G8V8]

Dealer did a Mobil 1 oil change for me when they did my rear main seal.

[TLS]

You should be able to tell if they changed the oil by checking the oil life monitor in engineering mode.

That is if they reset it.

I'm thinking they did NOT change the oil. They would have listed the oil and filter in the parts list.

The paperwork I sign is like 15 pages long, my copy is 1 page with what I posted above as the only "technical" info.

[-Ray-]

That is if they reset it.

I'm thinking they did NOT change the oil. They would have listed the oil and filter in the parts list.

The paperwork I sign is like 15 pages long, my copy is 1 page with what I posted above as the only "technical" info.

So true. I take my G8 to a very competent dealership and the tech forgot to reset the OLM. Not a big deal as it was at 50 percent, and I don't take it past 50 percent anymore.

[TLS]

I thought I read somewhere, that there were two possible causes for leaks.

1 was the rear main seal

and the other was faulty gasket material (RTV) for the sealing of the oil pan.

You would think, that IF there was a possibility that the pan gasket was known to have problems, that the tech would do BOTH since pan removal was at least suggested in the bulletin???

Which brings me to .....

Is there a pan gasket, or is it RTV?

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

If the OLM has been reset then you know it was changed, that was the point of my post. Pull the dipstick and look at the oil, if it's clean it's been changed, if it's dirty it hasn't. Unless you just changed it recently though. We can speculate on this until the cows come home, the easiest thing to do is ask the dealer if they changed the oil.

[WickedMom]

When I was at the dealership, our oil was not purchased in quarts but in bulk...so the oil would be listed in the G.O.G. Section (gas, oil & grease). Generally this falls in the miscellaneous section towards the bottom of the invoice.

Eta: if warranty work is being performed the filter would not be changed (even if the oil was). I'm sure one could request it, but warranty wouldn't pay for it

Sent from my amazing and awesome iPhone4

[TLS]

I'll have to look into this. And will likely call tomorrow.

I was just getting my ducks in a row for when I speak with the Service Manager. Like I said, know my way around SBC's, but couldn't tell you if those pics that Paul posted were of a LS or a Mercedes. I would have never guessed that the LS had that huge rear cover like that. Seems like something your see on an import.

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

The oil pan has a gasket according to the GM service manual:

Installation Procedure

Note: The alignment of the structural oil pan is critical. The rear bolt hole locations of the oil pan provide mounting points for the transmission housing. To ensure the rigidity of the powertrain and correct transmission alignment, it is important that the rear of the block and the rear of the oil pan are flush. The rear of the oil pan must NEVER protrude beyond the engine block and transmission housing plane.

Note: The original oil pan gasket is retained and aligned to the oil pan by rivets. When installing a new gasket, it is not necessary to install new oil pan gasket rivets.

[TLS]

Jessika,

All my TOTALS (LABOR, PARTS, SUBLET, G.O.G., MISC CHG, MISC DISC, and TOTAL TAX) at the bottom of the invoice are all 0.00

Thanks for letting me know what G.O.G means though! I was wondering what that could mean!

Don,

My "dirty" German Castrol 0w-30 only ever gets as "dark" as brand new cheap dealer 5w-30 Dino! So looking at the dipstick isn't really going to tell me anything.

[TLS]

The oil pan has a gasket according to the GM service manual:

Installation Procedure

Note: The alignment of the structural oil pan is critical. The rear bolt hole locations of the oil pan provide mounting points for the transmission housing. To ensure the rigidity of the powertrain and correct transmission alignment, it is important that the rear of the block and the rear of the oil pan are flush. The rear of the oil pan must NEVER protrude beyond the engine block and transmission housing plane.

Note: The original oil pan gasket is retained and aligned to the oil pan by rivets. When installing a new gasket, it is not necessary to install new oil pan gasket rivets.

Good to know! Thanks!

Just wondering why, if there are TSB's about a pan gasket, and the tech "should" be removing pan and gasket to do the rear main seal job, that he wouldn't just install one especially if he's right there doing it?

I guess they don't "pull" the engine to do this, but rather slide transmission back? Just seems like a LOT of work to be taking "shortcuts"?

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

You don't need to worry about this. Just watch for any leaks and change your oil when it's time and it'll be fine.

[TLS]

You don't need to worry about this. Just watch for any leaks and change your oil when it's time and it'll be fine.

Thanks Dad! lol

You sound like my Father!

I've been burned many times in the past with regard to warranty repairs either not being done when they were supposed to, or not done right, and later failing after warranty.

In this case, at least I documented it. Same with my "not able to duplicate" front suspension noise, and wobbling harmonic balancer that they say is "in spec". So we'll see. I haven't had the time to do much more than check the dipstick since I got it back.


Thanks for all your help guys, and gals!

[Crazy Paul]

I thought I read somewhere, that there were two possible causes for leaks.
1 was the rear main seal
and the other was faulty gasket material (RTV) for the sealing of the oil pan.
You would think, that IF there was a possibility that the pan gasket was known to have problems, that the tech would do BOTH since pan removal was at least suggested in the bulletin???
Which brings me to .....
Is there a pan gasket, or is it RTV?

Yes there's a pan gasket.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/9f85ee35-1.jpg
This isn't a G8 oilpan but the gasket is the same.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/sump02.jpg

There's a lot more than 2 ways to have an oil leak back there.
a) Rear main seal leak
b) Leaking thru the plug in the centre of the crankshaft
c) Leaking thru the flywheel bolt holes
d) Leaking from the rear main rear cover gasket
e) Leaking thru the rear main cover (porosity)
f) Leaking thru the rear of the block (block porosity)
g) Leaking from the pan gasket
h) Leaking from the rear main cover to oilpan joint (RTV)
.......could be even more than that.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/R1010588.jpg

[WickedMom]

It could be laziness on the parts guy too. If they use bulk oil, but didn't charge it out.

Why don't you pull the dipstick and see how clean the oil is...


Sent from my amazing and awesome iPhone4

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

Paul you're gonna give TLS a nervous breakdown telling him about all those places oil can leak, lol

[TLS]

It could be laziness on the parts guy too. If they use bulk oil, but didn't charge it out.

Why don't you pull the dipstick and see how clean the oil is...


Sent from my amazing and awesome iPhone4

Good point on the lazyness! It was probably somewhere on the 15 pages that I didn't get?!

As for the oil color....Without getting my owners manual, I'd say I had between 2500 and 3000mi on it since MY last change. I had to add a bit a few times due to it leaking. Germal Castrol is VERY clear when new compared to other brands. So if they DID change it, it's obviously NOT a VERY clear oil, but then it's never really dirty either. Hard to tell with the dipstick color check!

I'll call them today on my way to work.

[TLS]

Paul you're gonna give TLS a nervous breakdown telling him about all those places oil can leak, lol

I know! Paul....what are ya, crazy or somethin!!!

Paul, again thanks for the visuals! I don't know how familiar I'll get with an LS this late in life! In my teens, I'd rip out an engine on a Friday night, and have another back in and running for Saturday night. I'm just not as driven, or energetic anymore! And couple that to general expenses of adult life!

[TLS]

Called the Service Department today, and they confirmed that no oil or oil filter was used on my job.

Good part about that is I'll be under there sooner to check for anymore leaks!

[DRCUSTOMPARTS]

Seeing it wasn't listed on the paperwork that's what I figured, but now you know for sure.

[TLS]

I just wonder what the job pays (GM Warranty) in time, and how quick they actually did it by taking this short-cut. This is how dealers make money!

Job may pay, lets say.... 9hrs + 9qts of oil and a filter.

This dealer probably did it in 4hrs and no oil and filter.

Putting $40 (oil & filter) and 5hrs labor in their pocket.

[xruling]

I just had this work done also. Done in one working day. Dealer cited TSB #05-06-10-034L. "Oil leaking at rear cover gasket due to porosity on engine block. Repaired porosity issue and replaced rear cover, rear main seal and rear cover gasket per TSB."
Parts......
1 12633578 Gasket 0.137
1 89060436 Seal Kit 0.137
1 12378521 Sealant 8.800
1 12633579 Housing 0.137
8 12345610 Oil 8.8000
1 89017524 Filter 1.836

Route 1 Pontiac, Buick, GMC, Inc. continues to impress me!

[TLS]

^^^^^^^^
lucky!!!!!

[Crazy Paul]

Parts......
1 12633578 Gasket 0.137
1 89060436 Seal Kit 0.137
1 12633579 Housing 0.137


They've billed out the Parts as per the TSB, only thing is Housing Part No 12633579 is supposed to come with gasket & seal kit already installed. If it did arrive as a complete assembly, then they're billing out $33 worth of parts they didn't use.
:)

Here's how 12633579 should arrive....it already includes 12633578 & 89060436.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/L76/12633579.jpg

[jscruick]

My 2009.5 G8GT, with 11,000 miles, is now @ Capital GMC to have oil pan gasket & rear seal replaced; 10 days thus far!

[TLS]

Wow! Just keep a feel out for transmission shift linkage and exhaust noise/vibrations. Mine is vibrating at 1100 rpm like crazy. It either a heat shield or exhaust as its coming from the tunnel area.

[comerobob]

Good Idea TLS. About a week after getting mine done I was having Isues getting into park. Lucky for me I'm a mechanic and had access to a lift. One more shift and I would have been stuck. The shift cable was wedged between the lever and the trans tunel. The dealer didn't change the oil on mine. I think you can pull the cover off without pulling the oil pan. I've heard warranty work at the dealer doesn't pay as well as a standard Job would. Almost half the time on some jobs.

[zepcom]

It seems coincidential that shift linkage failures/disconnects/hangups are more common on those g8's that have had this TSB performed.

I experienced a shift linkage failure that required a roadside fix by yours truely with zip ties, many months after my rear main seal was performed.

One must wonder if bits and pieces relating to the shift linkage is a "one then done" type of thing... and if the dealership needs to disconnect it as part of the above TSB, that now that "linkage" is weak and possibly more prone to coming apart, possibly stranding someone.

It's a ball-and-socket type of joint I believe, with an E-clip. Just fixed mine the official way this past weekend.

Any thoughts on this?


I know of 2 g8's locally to me (myself included) that had this TSB performed, and several months later, broke their shift linkages. Booo.