Dyno of Procharged F1d 403 cu in compared to Maggie 1900 with Livernois stg 1

[gr8lover]

Been waiting quite awhile for the car and it is really close!!!
Here is a sample Dyno record of a recent pull..... the curves looked weird to me and wanted to compare my old Maggie 1900 setup to this one so I drew in the Maggie numbers/curve.... (sorry about the multiple pulls on sheet... confuses things a bit..)

THe Procharger F1d is a special F1 series charger that does not fit normally in a G8... somethings have to be done such as clear the wheel well,etc.... and some additional notching in other places.. but the F1d has a gear setup to be more like a maggie and have more immediate torque but a lower high end.... seems like it is a torque monster and compared to my old setup... it is faster on torque than before.... I never liked my torque curve before but that was maybe due to the converter.... who knows....

again, the comparison is not great due to the procharger stuff being done on a mustang dyno and the maggie stuff being done on a Dynojet.... but that might even make the disparity even more drastic... but for what it is worth... I have included this info for comparison....

this was done on a Mustang dyno... the numbers on the last pull were:
MAX hp=665rwhp
MAX trq= 646 rwtq @5155rpm

notice the HP and torque scales are not the same and somewhat confuse things abit... but this is all I got so far...

Car is on 93 octane... no meth... just a procharged F1d 403 cu in with special cam.... conservative runs at 11.2 afr and 15 degree tiiming at WOT... (they tell me this is safe.... I am new to the tuning world so I have no clue.... :) )

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy90/rockman68/P3072055modified.jpg

[-Ray-]

That's awesome Chuck.

[travis gore]

great #'s
that is a lot of tq at 5155 rpm

[locrzn#92]

There is plenty left if tuned correctly. That may be all the car can handle in its current state. I know your doing a different rear later and probably some other drive train upgrade. That should be a bad mofo when its all said and done. Very nice and maybe you can do some engine bay pics, we'd love to see them.

[1meand]

Great numbers, I can't wait to see what it will run. +1 on the engine pics.

[Patrick G]

With a blower that big, you have 900-1000rwhp potential with faster blower speed. Congrats.

[Chewy]

HOLY SHIT! That's awesome! I can't even imagine 1000HP in a car like this. Especially with our rear suspension. I'm thinking solid rear axle for those kinds of numbers and a VERY beefed trans.

[jimmytt6]

Wow nice #'s..can't wait to see how it runs at track..congrats!!

[STL_G8GT]

Very nice, Chuck! Hows about donating that 1900? :-)

[BigV8]

Excellent numbers with room to grow, gotta love it!

[VegasNate]

Don't drive angry in that thing!

[thebeast]

Did u sell your old tvs1900. I would love to take that off your hands

[TCorzett]

Wow... what are you doing to the drive train, specifically the transmission, to handle that much power/torque? Anything new, or still going to use the Circle D transmission?

-Todd...

PS - Is the Circle D transmission you're running similar to THIS (http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/transmission/1103gmhtp_circle_d_6l80e_transmission_upgrades/index.html)?

[blue-mayhem]

Damn that's a beast.

[gr8lover]

Wow... what are you doing to the drive train, specifically the transmission, to handle that much power/torque? Anything new, or still going to use the Circle D transmission?

-Todd...

PS - Is the Circle D transmission you're running similar to THIS (http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/transmission/1103gmhtp_circle_d_6l80e_transmission_upgrades/index.html)?

Still gonna run the Circle D 6L80.... yep.. that is what I had done... (no billet shaft though... they didnt have it at the time..)... I am hoping it lasts!!! hoping!!! :)

[gr8lover]

Did u sell your old tvs1900. I would love to take that off your hands

Yep... I sold the Maggie to a member on this board.... he should be installing it pretty soon!!! I am sure he will love it!!!

[gr8lover]

With a blower that big, you have 900-1000rwhp potential with faster blower speed. Congrats.

Thanks Patrick!!! I may have to stop out by you and get a tune done and have it checked out... My tuner is mainly a Mustang guy but has done a couple Ls and LSX motors... but nothing to the extent that you guys have.... if you ever venture out to this side of the world..:).... I am worried about lifting my heads off the block if I up the boost any more....

[1ChargedG8]

A true beast!!

[SRT82NV]

This is the same blower I run on my SRT8. You will love this blower. How much boost are you running?

[gr8lover]

This is the same blower I run on my SRT8. You will love this blower. How much boost are you running?

Running 17.5 lbs at 6200rpm.... but after talking with you I might pulley down a hair.... to get 20.......... I think I have the largest pulley made for this thing.... no slip at all at 17.5......

[1stGXPmaggie2.3]

Awesome setup. What compression are you running?

[gr8lover]

Awesome setup. What compression are you running?

9.0:1 compression.... should work well with this blower....

[Tempest2000]

Did you go catless this time?

Clogging up my cats is part of what keeps me from pulling the trigger on a FI setup. I don't want the smell of catless, and I don't want to blow up my engine either.

I've heard of 3 g8's that were FI having issues with clogged or shifted cats.

[gr8lover]

Did you go catless this time?

Clogging up my cats is part of what keeps me from pulling the trigger on a FI setup. I don't want the smell of catless, and I don't want to blow up my engine either.

I've heard of 3 g8's that were FI having issues with clogged or shifted cats.

Yep I went Catless this time..... I think I will try it for as long as I can and hope the smell doesnt bother me too bad.... I dont think it will bother me that much. just wanted to eliminate one of the things that could cause me issues...

[wnt2gofst]

Wow..That thing is a monster..Congrats on the numbers..

Can't wait to see what does at the track.

[G8-4-Speed]

Did you go catless this time?

Clogging up my cats is part of what keeps me from pulling the trigger on a FI setup. I don't want the smell of catless, and I don't want to blow up my engine either.

I've heard of 3 g8's that were FI having issues with clogged or shifted cats.

There is no reason for cats to clog unless the tune is off or the cam is that "big" or your always making short trips.....Probably need spiral core cats instead of the brick style cats. If you plug a spiral core cat, your motor is bad....

[Tempest2000]

Who makes a spiral core cat?

I'm not disagreeing with you per say, but a simple google search reveals quite a few issues with aftermarket converters. From front mount turbo installs, centri's, and positive displacement blower applications. With that said, I couldn't find any stock cat issues with FI it was all with aftermarket cats. Just trying to do my homework. I wonder if the boost a pumps have anything to do with the issue. I'm thinking when the bap kicks in that it might cause a rich condition causing the issue.

[SRT82NV]

There is no reason for cats to clog unless the tune is off or the cam is that "big" or your always making short trips.....Probably need spiral core cats instead of the brick style cats. If you plug a spiral core cat, your motor is bad....


Yeah Rick this is what happens when you go catless.......http://www.youtube.com/user/DYNOTUNEDPERFORMANCE

[Tempest2000]

It seems that running an engine with higher compression is magnifying the issue with the cat failures. From the explanation below, it makes sense that the higher EGT's due to lower timing is compounding the issue. I do know that at least 2 people with cat issues were running more than 10.8 or more compression which probably didn't help the cause...

Here is what julio from alky control said in a discussion with him about this issue and if meth might help. In his reference to improper tuning, we were discussing running too rich causing issues along with too low of timing.

The thing that kills cats is lead, and improper tuning.

My understanding on temperature is typically due to timing and detonation. See what happens is when you boost a high compression engine, the first thing that happens is the shop starts to tune it.. they end up up with very low timing to allow the engine to work with pump fuel. Example 12-14 degree's of timing at WOT. Vs 28-30 is your stock timing on an NA. When you reduce timing it elevates the EGT on the motor. This makes the headers run hotter than normal.. even glow. To reduce EGT(exhuast gas temp) you increase timing but now your fighting the octane issue. This is where the meth shines as you run slightly higher timing.. it reduces egt's.. headers and exhuast are happeir.. as are your pistons. What breaks the pistons is knock=detonation. higher octane fuel alleviates this=meth injection.

Just throwing it out there for info purposes. Not trying to detract from this thread. I can't wait to see the numbers your car runs this year. The setup looks killer.

[G8-4-Speed]

Yeah Rick this is what happens when you go catless.......http://www.youtube.com/user/DYNOTUNEDPERFORMANCE

Glad to see a street with some big ponys go down the track. Nice times....although the videos would play....

[gr8lover]

My god!!! Got the car back today and first time I drove it in 7 months.... Scary....

I am going slow and trying to get used to it and scared to hit it... but I hit it on the expressway going 75-80 and wanted to see what it could do..... didnt expect rear end to swipe out and kick on stability control and restrict engine power.... my god..... this is nothing like I had before and it is just scary!!!!! not really a street car anymore as when I am driving literally everyone stops and looks and stares.... the whine is so loud and (a bit obnoxious....) the the engine roars...... forgot to breathe a couple times...

on the other hand, the cam is so big, it is harder to start, runs a bit rough, tuning still needs to be tweaked due to how rich its running and conservative it is.... so will probably take some months to get her all tweaked in!!!! fun so far though.... little oil gage issue thats going out on me... but HP tuners shows its all good... so the external gage is not right or the sensor is going bad... actually had one blow out on the dyno..... so we will see....

anyway... if anyone considers the F1d, I would really think twice about it if it is your daily driver.... more like a weekend warrior car now.... different, but good I think!! we will see!!!

[locrzn#92]

Awsome hp and its probably gonna be an issue with the cam and the f1 on the street. Tires? your gonna need some new ones quite often.

[Tempest2000]

Awesome sounds like fun LOL

[09G8DC]

Stock fuel pump? What size injectors are you running?

[Mier]

I'd think the combination of cam with procharger really moved your power beyond your expectations. I hope to get that feeling someday. :D

Also, did you get the special gears which are supposed to quiet the procharger down?

[BP505]

I'd think the combination of cam with procharger really moved your power beyond your expectations. I hope to get that feeling someday. :D

Also, did you get the special gears which are supposed to quiet the procharger down?


The helical gears for noise reduction are not available on the F series units to my knowledge. Only the
P1 and D1.

[Boostpatrol]

Sweet!!! Congrats Chuck... Now if anyone wants similar to more power that is very controllable from 450whp to 1000 hp i have a complete twin turbo system for sale that can do the numbers i just stated....

[wreckwriter]

Chuck, check this out:

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_1003_2011_pontiac_trans_am/photo_03.html

its on a Camaro (Trans Am conversion) but I bet it would fit. I've contacted the company to find out if they're willing to sell the intake parts. Will require cutting the hood but I'm very interested.

[-Ray-]

Chuck. Don't be beating on my diff! LOL

[gr8lover]

Chuck. Don't be beating on my diff! LOL

Diff is safe as can be........:) check your PM's....

[gr8lover]

Tom,

Awesome Idea!!!!! That looks like the concept would work!!!! and it would fix one of the only bad things about the procharger!!! very very interested!!! keep me updated on what you find out!!!



Chuck, check this out:

http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_1003_2011_pontiac_trans_am/photo_03.html

its on a Camaro (Trans Am conversion) but I bet it would fit. I've contacted the company to find out if they're willing to sell the intake parts. Will require cutting the hood but I'm very interested.