Squires Rear Turbo System

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I am contacting Squires about a rear-mounted turbo. Stay tuned!

[99-LS1-SS]

I'm officially tuned.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Well, they haven't done anything with a G8 yet, but they are considering it. Unfortunately for me, they need a stock G8 to qualify for any kind of discount. :( For those with a stock G8, this might be your chance to get a good deal on a rear-twin turbo kit. 866-938-8726 (Squires Turbo Systems)

[wreckwriter]

Looks like a neat system.

[99-LS1-SS]

I've seen some Goats putting down 600+ rwhp on rear turbo systems.

[wreckwriter]

You can do that on a blower too, you just needed forged parts and pieces in the bottom end for it to last.

[mjduell2009]

Well, they haven't done anything with a G8 yet, but they are considering it. Unfortunately for me, they need a stock G8 to qualify for any kind of discount. :( For those with a stock G8, this might be your chance to get a good deal on a rear-twin turbo kit. 866-938-8726 (Squires Turbo Systems)

I still have my internals stock on my 6.0 ;). What state do you need to be in?

--Mike

[wreckwriter]

I still have my internals stock on my 6.0 ;). What state do you need to be in?

--Mike

The company is in Utah. Bet there's about 3 G8s there.....

[MANOFSTEEL69]

It's Utah. I priced some shipping options from here in Ohio and it's like 800 bucks one-way. I'm not sure how much they discount the system though. Didn't make it that far in the negotiating, lol.

[99-LS1-SS]

The company is in Utah. Bet there's about 3 G8s there.....

In the whole state?

[99-LS1-SS]

You can do that on a blower too, you just needed forged parts and pieces in the bottom end for it to last.

I know, I was just stating what I had read about.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

Well....It is Utah after all. Lol!

[wreckwriter]

I know, I was just stating what I had read about.

Wish I could afford to do it :(

[g8gxp]

what is the difference between where you mount the turbos?

[GRRRR8]

Current kits mount where the cats are and STS is mounted in the rear by the mufflers.

[BlownG8GT]

(taking my Magna charger hat off)



OK, I used to sell and install STS kits on trucks and GTO's. Until there is an improvement on the oil return system I do not feel this is a viable option as a power adder. Yes, it makes power, you are putting boost pressure into the motor.....Yes, it is functional....But the return pump is the weak link in their design.

Trust me when I tell you, when that pump fails....your motor is close behind.

The above statement is based on my first hand experience with the product, I am not just bad mouthing them. Rick and his crew do a great job with this style turbo charger and it is a innovative design....they just need to find a better oil return pump.


(Magna Charger hat back on)

[GRRRR8]

^+1^ and why would you want the turbos that far away from the motor. I have seen them up close and worked on vehicles that had them and they DO work, but I think the APS and HOB kits are just a better design and easier to install.

[bwooten492]

STS!!!! Its not like I could ever afford it though...

[-Ray-]

^+1^ and why would you want the turbos that far away from the motor. I have seen them up close and worked on vehicles that had them and they DO work, but I think the APS and HOB kits are just a better design and easier to install.

The turbo's are farther away from the engine, and reduce under hood heat. Also the air charge is cooler than an under hood mounted turbo.

[GRRRR8]

The turbo's are farther away from the engine, and reduce under hood heat. Also the air charge is cooler than an under hood mounted turbo.

APS is under the car, there is no under hood heat to speak of. I think the best systems for power and duability mount on the manifold/header. We have a lot of plastic in the back that will have to be shielded and protected also. Under the car, well the cats get to 700 degrees and the turbo will generate about a 1400 EGT reading for max safe power.

[-Ray-]

I'm aware APS is under the car. There are applications where STS rear mount turbos work. I was simply answering the question posed.

[GRRRR8]

I'm aware APS is under the car. There are applications where STS rear mount turbos work. I was simply answering the question posed.

Sorry about that Ray. I answered that post tired last night and I didnt mean it to sound like that. The system does work for sure. I just think the front kits are a easier/neater install with less components to deal with.

[MtbDoc]

I did the first install of an STS on the LS2 (2005) GTO. STS worked w/ me on an EXCELLENT price on a 2004 kit, which they thought would bolt straight up. They hadn't seen a 2005 yet, and so I had to fab a different exhaust piece that went from the cats to the rear STS piece...basically it replaced the standard "Y-pipe" for the 2004.

The car made power, no question. On the dyno, it did about 450rwhp @ 5psi (although it would build 7psi on the street). This car turned a 12.3/119 on a VERY slick 1/4 (other cars were a good .5 sec slower than usual that day)...with a 6 speed. ALSO on the dyno, when I messed around w/ the boost control, we had one run that hit 12+ psi...we shut it down just under 5000 rpm, but it was already at 600rwtq. Everything held together just fine.

IAT's are low with the rear mount. Not an issue. Oil pump? Never had a problem with the PUMP, although a bad relay shut down the pump once and had to tow the car.

My main issue was the lag. It didn't hit quickly enough for my taste. There were a couple of automatic tranny goats w/ STS that got into the 9's on the track...and that is fast. They could load the turbo and build boost off the line = no lag.

I sold my system and installed the GenTT front mount twins, and REALLY appreciate the difference in response. Now, small rear twins should spool a bit quicker, but the real issue is that the exhaust just cools off too much before hitting a rear-mount turbo WHEN JUST DRIVING AROUND. When I was pushing the car hard (like racing a Cobra Mustang up to the Blue Ridge Parkway during the 2006 HR Power Tour), the response was great. The exhaust stayed heated up and so it worked well. It was just when I'd suddenly trounce it in daily-driver mode that the lag was annoying...and THAT is when I wanted the power.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts from personal experience w/ STS rear-mount on a Holden.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

I am an STS Turbo dealer as well as being a custom turbo system builder too. If you guys need me to build you a remote turbo system based off the STS design for your G8 or G8 GT then just let me know. I will be relocating to the Mississippi gulf coast here in another month and would need to get settled first. After that I should be up and running to do something like this.

Whether the kit comes from me or STS does fully develop something for the G8 expect the TT version to cost roughly close to what the APS, GEN TT, and HOB setups cost. That is not STS saying that, those are just my words based upon my experience with the other STS TT systems and my building systems in general. Some people opt for the rear mount over the conventional low mount for various reasons so the choice is yours there. One is not necessarily better than the other. Both types of systems have their strong and weak points. Happy boosting guys...

[bubblyjock]

I emailed STS about a month ago about a G8 system and never got an email back, since i'm in Wyoming its not too far to drive.

[locrzn#92]

Take it to house of boost and let Eric put twins on it. His has already proven to be the fastest in the USA. He's in Lenexa, KS just outside of KC, MO>

[MtbDoc]

Take it to house of boost and let Eric put twins on it. His has already proven to be the fastest in the USA. He's in Lenexa, KS just outside of KC, MO>

Why is the information so slow in coming about this setup?

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Why is the information so slow in coming about this setup?



I do not know either. So far I have not even seen pictures of the setup, even if it is similar to the APS systems. I would like to see some pics because I am always up for looking at what sounds like a good project.

I can speak from a more Aerocharger perspective(the manufacturers of the special turbo's HOB used) that there probably will be some new system developments taking place. I have inquired about becoming a dealer for their product but am still working out the details. Since I am also an STS dealer and have designed custom remote mounted turbo systems they (Aerocharger) have inquired as to if I would be interested in a remote setup using their turbo's rather than Garrett turbo's. We will see what develops with this matter but it is a process that is currently ongoing. I may end up building a conventional and remote mount system for the GT and maybe even a conventional mount for the G8 V6 too.

[-Ray-]

Robert, the G6 crowd have been wanting a turbo for the longest time. Intake tubing fabrication has been the real issue I think. You have a bender?

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Robert, the G6 crowd have been wanting a turbo for the longest time. Intake tubing fabrication has been the real issue I think. You have a bender?



Pretty much NO speed shop has an actual mandrel bender. True mandrel benders are EXTREMELY expensive and cost prohibitive unless you are making thousands of the same bends repeatedly. What most speed shops do is buy a whole hell of allot of prebent mandrel bends in various degrees and then cut and weld them together to create a smoothly routed and flowing intake tube or exhaust hotside. It accomplishes the same thing and looks very attractive it the guy doing the welding knows what he is doing.

I am always interested in designing and building custom turbo systems for vehicles that currently do not have them offered. If you know any G6 guys that want something built for their car and live in the MS gulf coast area then send them to me and I will see what I can do to help them out.

[GeorgeInNePa]

I do not know either. So far I have not even seen pictures of the setup, even if it is similar to the APS systems. I would like to see some pics because I am always up for looking at what sounds like a good project.

I can speak from a more Aerocharger perspective(the manufacturers of the special turbo's HOB used) that there probably will be some new system developments taking place. I have inquired about becoming a dealer for their product but am still working out the details. Since I am also an STS dealer and have designed custom remote mounted turbo systems they (Aerocharger) have inquired as to if I would be interested in a remote setup using their turbo's rather than Garrett turbo's. We will see what develops with this matter but it is a process that is currently ongoing. I may end up building a conventional and remote mount system for the GT and maybe even a conventional mount for the G8 V6 too.

I'd think the Aero would be perfect for rear-moubt. No oil lines to mess with.

I don't know much about turbos, but in my limited reading, that seems to be one of the biggest complaints about rear mount systems.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

I'd think the Aero would be perfect for rear-moubt. No oil lines to mess with.

I don't know much about turbos, but in my limited reading, that seems to be one of the biggest complaints about rear mount systems.



That would make for one less item to install.

[GeorgeInNePa]

The thing that bugs me about rear turbos is the air cleaner location. Under the car doesn't excite me.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

The thing that bugs me about rear turbos is the air cleaner location. Under the car doesn't excite me.



Depending on the specific kit the air cleaner is sometimes no more exposed under the car and tucked up than in the engine bay. It all depends on where the air filter is located that makes the difference. There are also filter socks and shields that you can use that will protect the filter element even more if you are really concerned about it. I do agree that filters in some of the kits are located lower than I would prefer.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Depending on the specific kit the air cleaner is sometimes no more exposed under the car and tucked up than in the engine bay. It all depends on where the air filter is located that makes the difference. There are also filter socks and shields that you can use that will protect the filter element even more if you are really concerned about it. I do agree that filters in some of the kits are located lower than I would prefer.

If you become a dealer for Aerocharger, let us know. I'm sorta interested in the idea of a rear mount single turbo.

[MtbDoc]

This Aerocharger sounds like an excellent approach, but why move it all the way to the back of the car? If it is easy enough to locate where the stock cats are (APS positioning) then you have MUCH HOTTER exhaust to spool the turbo, AND shorter intake plumbing. Win/win.

The turbo inlet in the rear can be dealt with, although the socks that STS uses didn't hold up for me very long. I had problems w/ water in the maf once (enough to cause misfiring...no water lock or anything like that...but enough). The oil supply is an issue as well, but the biggest for me is simply the cooled-off exhaust stream. At the strip w/ an automatic, it would be no problem. On the open road w/ a 6 speed it just wasn't responsive enough.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

This Aerocharger sounds like an excellent approach, but why move it all the way to the back of the car? If it is easy enough to locate where the stock cats are (APS positioning) then you have MUCH HOTTER exhaust to spool the turbo, AND shorter intake plumbing. Win/win.

The turbo inlet in the rear can be dealt with, although the socks that STS uses didn't hold up for me very long. I had problems w/ water in the maf once (enough to cause misfiring...no water lock or anything like that...but enough). The oil supply is an issue as well, but the biggest for me is simply the cooled-off exhaust stream. At the strip w/ an automatic, it would be no problem. On the open road w/ a 6 speed it just wasn't responsive enough.


I agree that with these cars it is MUCH easier to do a conventional low mount like the APS due to the modular design of the exhaust system than most other vehicles. While getting hot exhaust back to the turbine does become more of a challenge with a remote mount system coatings such as Jet Hot help heat retention quite a bit. The longer intake plumbing doesn't really matter as it really doesn't have any appreciable volume to fill and that additional surface area does serve to cool the IAT's.

The K&N drycharger socks I have used have always held up pretty well. The key is to get the correct sized one so that it fits snugly and doesn't want to move around all over the place rubbing on other items.

Aerochargers have their own self contained oil supply so no oil lines or return pump for a remote or conventional mount system using those turbochargers.

As mentioned before the key to not encountering the basic problems (water in the intake and so on) that people feel they might encounter are easily solved with proper design and fabrication of the system.

Even though a conventional/low mount system like APS aren't terribly hard to install due to their location a remote system would still be easier for the newer enthusiast. With as much power as these cars make on relatively low boost I would not see much need for any additional intake air cooling besides what the aluminum plumbing running forward offers on normal "street boost". That means that pretty much the entire process of taking the front clip off of the car for the APS FMIC install would be removed from the process along with the process of routing the intake filter tubing forward inside the engine bay. There are a few benefits to each approach depending on what you want.

While I do appreciate the performance gains that properly designed and configured remote systems deliver I still plan to do a conventional/low mount TT system on my personal G8 because I don't mind the extra fabrication and install time involved. You know how it goes. Different strokes for different folks.

[MtbDoc]

The reality is that a Jet Hot (or related) coating is MUCH more effective in dealing with radiant heat loss...like headers under the hood w/ low airflow. UNDER the car the exhaust gets cooled A LOT by convective cooling, and the coating is only going to make a small % difference. Some folks have done extensive insulation of the exhaust back to the turbo, and have reported a lot of benefit. But that is the prime concern for the rear mount, and why I ultimately sold mine and moved to a traditional front mount (GenTT) setup.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

The reality is that a Jet Hot (or related) coating is MUCH more effective in dealing with radiant heat loss...like headers under the hood w/ low airflow. UNDER the car the exhaust gets cooled A LOT by convective cooling, and the coating is only going to make a small % difference. Some folks have done extensive insulation of the exhaust back to the turbo, and have reported a lot of benefit. But that is the prime concern for the rear mount, and why I ultimately sold mine and moved to a traditional front mount (GenTT) setup.



As a person who builds these and other types of systems for a living I have tested this just a bit. The spool time was appreciably reduced after coating in the remote systems I have tested.

[Posidon42]

I am very interested in the HOB kit but their website seems a bit sparse on ordering and kit information. Since I am moving two hours from their shop, I might be stopping by next month sometime. I sent them an email and hope to hear back from them soon.

[Devilish34]

If you become a dealer for Aerocharger, let us know. I'm sorta interested in the idea of a rear mount single turbo.

http://hiperturbo.readyhosting.com/store/product23.html

Aero is a twin turbo for the G8 oh and ouch 10k
Unless there is another kit

[SLVRG8GT]

http://hiperturbo.readyhosting.com/store/product23.html

Aero is a twin turbo for the G8 oh and ouch 10k
Unless there is another kit


10K? :bm:

That just burns me up!

[GeorgeInNePa]

http://hiperturbo.readyhosting.com/store/product23.html

Aero is a twin turbo for the G8 oh and ouch 10k
Unless there is another kit

Yea, I've heard the rumors. 10K is beyond what I'm willing to spend.

I'll start dreaming of the Gen TT kit for 6K.

[Devilish34]

Yea, I've heard the rumors. 10K is beyond what I'm willing to spend.

I'll start dreaming of the Gen TT kit for 6K.

I like that kit but I don't trust my self with that much power. I'll be happy to have my tune a new rear diff and axles.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Too Much Is Just Enough!



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[VegasNate]

Is that Great White?

['02 ws6]

The thing that bugs me about rear turbos is the air cleaner location. Under the car doesn't excite me.

X2 then again really nothing about rear mount turbos excite me. More of a front mounted fan.
BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104

[GeorgeInNePa]

Is that Great White?

No, an eastern Pa band named Harpo. One of those "should have made it big, but never did" bands.

[christiancoach]

I realize I am coming into the conversation a little late, but I did read all 5 pages of the thread. My question is this: Who cares about lag? The G8 makes great low RPM torque as it is. To me turbo lag would be a problem in a ricer 4 banger that doesn't make any torque stock. A CAI, tuned, cat backed G8 will spin the tires going into third. It seems like a little lag would be appreciated.
Of course the only turbo car I ever owned was a Peugeot 505 Turbo.

[mystic98ls1]

I posted on this a month or so ago. My car is going up there in a week for them to start on it. I have talked to them since last oct, we finaly worked out a deal.

[MtbDoc]

I realize I am coming into the conversation a little late, but I did read all 5 pages of the thread. My question is this: Who cares about lag? The G8 makes great low RPM torque as it is. To me turbo lag would be a problem in a ricer 4 banger that doesn't make any torque stock. A CAI, tuned, cat backed G8 will spin the tires going into third. It seems like a little lag would be appreciated.
Of course the only turbo car I ever owned was a Peugeot 505 Turbo.

Unfortunately, when you are out tooling around and HIT IT, most of us want that instant FAT midrange torque that turbos can produce. Waiting a second for it to come up was not for me. Others obviously see it differently, and for them it is fine. Running with an auto at the strip won't show any lag, as you can build boost against the stall. Didn't work that way w/ a 6 speed!

OTOH, the IAT's are VERY low with the rear mounts, and the weight distribution is better. I appreciated those aspects of it. One other concern: they really don't do a good job with the coating. I have seen more than one GTO rear mount exhibiting a LOT of rust. Hopefully they are doing a bit better job with it. Small ball bearing twins will hopefully spool more quickly (although you double the complexity of the piping).

Finally, the sound. It is REALLY LOUD behind these cars, and it is an interesting and unique sound. V8 chopped up by turbine blades, with no mufflers behind it. I added a lot of sound deadening in the rear and passenger compartment in my goat and the sound was no issue. Windows down, blast past a big truck (which provide a good sound reflecting surface) and I was SHOCKED how it sounded. It will draw attention, that's for sure.

[kbuckert]

I dont want to steal a thread, but....I am posting a new thread....STS Turbo - Who's Interested.....It a go with enough people....check it out

[Chooch]

IF you are not afraid of turbo lag, go find someone with an older 930 Porshe Turbo, hit the gas trying to leave a corner and when you HP goes from 200-400 in 1 sec, count the trees as they fly by you as you spin off the road.... The problem is even with the mid range of the g8, when the power jumps by 50-70% all of a sudden, bad things happen..... Trust me i know from a previous experience.... Was not good... You need a progressive hit, else things just become bad, really really bad

[MGMG8GT]

Other thread gets locked and this one gets a bump? What the hell.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Other thread gets locked and this one gets a bump? What the hell.



I believe it was the manner in which people were talking in that thread that got it locked.

Personally I do not believe it is worth it to do a remote turbo type twin system on these particular cars. The biggest reason for this is because there is plenty of room much closer to the engine to mount a pair of turbos and have a more efficient system. IAT's may be a little higher but that is easily handled with a good FMIC. Lag will be less too. When looking at how the catalytic converters bolt into the exhaust system you see the perfect opportunity to fit a pair of turbos there just like the Gen TT and APS systems. Now don't get me wrong, I do support the use of a properly configured remote turbo systems if other options are not as easy to pursue. Heck, I am even an STS dealer though I never really move much of their product. If someone wants to do a remote mounted single or twin turbo system on their G8 then that is cool. They will probably make a good amount of power and good 1/4 mile times. Just don't expect STS to support the R&D, manufacture, and production of a system for a car who's days are numbered. In all honesty I would suggest people just go for the Gen TT or APS systems already out there for the G8, or have a reputable shop do a custom system of similar design.

[Ktlplxm]

Other thread gets locked and this one gets a bump? What the hell.

Ooops

[R.Penguin]

I'm officially tuned.
AH, so that's what you call it when you get caught with your hand in your pants eh?

[Devilish34]

AH, so that's what you call it when you get caught with your hand in your pants eh?

Ugh bad vision Bad Penguin

[GeorgeInNePa]

I believe it was the manner in which people were talking in that thread that got it locked.

Personally I do not believe it is worth it to do a remote turbo type twin system on these particular cars. The biggest reason for this is because there is plenty of room much closer to the engine to mount a pair of turbos and have a more efficient system. IAT's may be a little higher but that is easily handled with a good FMIC. Lag will be less too. When looking at how the catalytic converters bolt into the exhaust system you see the perfect opportunity to fit a pair of turbos there just like the Gen TT and APS systems. Now don't get me wrong, I do support the use of a properly configured remote turbo systems if other options are not as easy to pursue. Heck, I am even an STS dealer though I never really move much of their product. If someone wants to do a remote mounted single or twin turbo system on their G8 then that is cool. They will probably make a good amount of power and good 1/4 mile times. Just don't expect STS to support the R&D, manufacture, and production of a system for a car who's days are numbered. In all honesty I would suggest people just go for the Gen TT or APS systems already out there for the G8, or have a reputable shop do a custom system of similar design.

:surprise:

No way! Everyone knows we hate STS here!

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

:surprise:

No way! Everyone knows we hate STS here!



Keep in mind that STS and remote mounted turbo's aren't completely synonymous. :) Most any system that I do, whether conventional or remote, usually have been built custom rather than from a kit. Of course I usually tend to go with niche vehicles that don't have a large aftermarket support. What can I say, I like a good challenge. :)

[mystic98ls1]

I know there days are numbered but the GTO only had a 3 year run also, and I also like the fact that I can do turbos and remain emissions leagal. Which I have to do where I live. I think GM will continue to make the G8, it may be called a chevy lumina but who cares.

[Coldones]

Former STS owner here... always ran well for me.

[locrzn#92]

I'm not trying to pop this thread, but, a couple weeks ago I was in St Louis for a cruise in at a Chuck a burger. In comes a late model gto, it sounded pretty nasty. I walked over to see what was under the hood. It was a 406 Lq9 with a big cam and procharger. The neat deal with this setup was that it had a single 4 barrel intake with one of Edelbrocks new hats. It was one of the cleanest set ups I've seen and the car made over 525 hp at the wheels. They were also going to put a solid axle in and get rid of the independent rear. Back to the hat for the intake tube, the intake tube ran straight out of the hat and down in front of the motor, the procharger sat on the passenger side if I remember correctly. I wish I'd had my digital with me or at least taken a picture with my phone. He was using one of the msd boxes to run the engine management and he said it took about 4 hours to install. Manosteel, thats the perfect set up for you.http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/images/38483.jpg
I think this was the hat he had, his was polished. Wreck this would have been the set up for you also.

[GeorgeInNePa]

According to the guys over at LS1Tech, the LS3 manifold out flows that set up unless you have a big cube block.

Even then, the LS3 is more street-able. The Alum intake is more a "track only" mod or at least that's the way I read it.

[locrzn#92]

Its the nice setup I was talking about, the procharger on Wrecks is all over the place. It pulls air out of the engine bay. His Iats must be pretty high. The gto engine bay was a very neat looking setup and clean as can be. This GTO was definetly a street car and very unique to say the least. I don't even think he had run it at the track, they just finished it.

[chance575]

The edelbrock hat is a big restiction. Look into a intakeelbows.com sheet metal piece for more flow.

That gto out of stl is assbackwards, i have seen this car and the speed shop he uses is raping him. It has a p-1 procharger on a 408 iron block, it should at least have a d-1 on it and the msd coils do nothing. I make over 525 hp with a stock block and a sts. Pic of my intake below

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m202/chance575/IMG_1379.jpg

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

The edelbrock hat is a big restiction. Look into a intakeelbows.com sheet metal piece for more flow.

That gto out of stl is assbackwards, i have seen this car and the speed shop he uses is raping him. It has a p-1 procharger on a 408 iron block, it should at least have a d-1 on it and the msd coils do nothing. I make over 525 hp with a stock block and a sts. Pic of my intake below

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m202/chance575/IMG_1379.jpg



You do not exactly need to run a sheet metal intake on a low boost setup. They only really becomes worth the money spent when you are pushing allot more boost through the engine and thus are running into even more restriction through the intake manifold. For a milder setup the stock manifold will be fine.

[East TX muscle cars]

You do not exactly need to run a sheet metal intake on a low boost setup. They only really becomes worth the money spent when you are pushing allot more boost through the engine and thus are running into even more restriction through the intake manifold. For a milder setup the stock manifold will be fine.

+1

[locrzn#92]

That looks real simular to the gto I saw in st louis. His was with the procharger and edelbrock elbow. Your setup looks awsome.