Sensitivity Rating of stock door speakers

[fiveoh]

Anyone know the sensitivity rating for the stock door speakers and or tweeters?

[Crazy Paul]

Sorry if there's any double-ups in pics below.
You'll work it out.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/G8%20Stereo/DSC09289.jpg

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[fiveoh]

Thanks for the pics, although I dont think the sensitivity rating is on those numbers. Or is it the bolded number that looks like part of the model number?

[Crazy Paul]

No mention of sensitivity rating in anything I've read.
Bolded numbers have nothing to do with it.

[fiveoh]

No mention of sensitivity rating in anything I've read.
Bolded numbers have nothing to do with it.

Ah ok thanks anyway.

[matthewo]

usually stock paper cone speakers are a bit more effecent than aftermarket speakers. the paper cone is lighter, the surround is a thin foam, and the spider is not very stiff. these all make a speaker more effecent. but the problem with these things is the speaker is weaker and will not take as much power, and when they do get fead a lot of power the distort easy.

[fiveoh]

usually stock paper cone speakers are a bit more effecent than aftermarket speakers. the paper cone is lighter, the surround is a thin foam, and the spider is not very stiff. these all make a speaker more effecent. but the problem with these things is the speaker is weaker and will not take as much power, and when they do get fead a lot of power the distort easy.

Right, I was just trying to find the numbers so maybe I could find a really sensitive 4ohm speaker to put in and it would make up the difference in volume.

[matthewo]

image dynamics oem 6 1/2 come in 2 ohm. the old orion hcca 6 1/2 come in 2 ohm. im sure you could fine some nice midbasses on parts express that come in 2 ohm. matched with the stock deck. the front tweeters actually are fine. the front door midbasses suck bad. the rear door speakers are not very good. and the subwoofers in the rear deck are ok. but your probably not going to find something that sounds much better for the 8" ib rear deck subs.

[fiveoh]

image dynamics oem 6 1/2 come in 2 ohm. the old orion hcca 6 1/2 come in 2 ohm. im sure you could fine some nice midbasses on parts express that come in 2 ohm. matched with the stock deck. the front tweeters actually are fine. the front door midbasses suck bad. the rear door speakers are not very good. and the subwoofers in the rear deck are ok. but your probably not going to find something that sounds much better for the 8" ib rear deck subs.

Hmmm do the ID's or orions sound better? Any suggestions on a parts express midbass? I've already got a sub in the trunk and yanked the factory 8's.

[matthewo]

IMO anything is better than the stock front door midbasses. I would look at parts express cause they have good drivers for a good price. Also you want more of a full range driver over an actual midbass because the stock deck gives a full range signal to that speaker. The crossover is done naturally by the drivers roll off. Ie the drivers freq response. I know parts express has some good drivers at good prices. The problem with the stock door speakers is any bass any they will distort.

[GL3]

Anyone know the sensitivity rating for the stock door speakers and or tweeters?
i believe i understand your question but if i don't, i will give a small tutorial in audio. Sensitivity is measured in how loud in decibels a speaker will play with one watt at a specified distance, IE:92db with one watt at one meter. This is more important in home audio because the speaker is so close to you. Sound disipates at the square of the distance, meaning that the sound will be half as loud at twice the distance which in a car is not very relevant. What is relevant for a G8 is the impedence of the speakers relative to the amps powering them. If you place 4 ohm speakers in a location where a 2 ohm speaker assuming the same efficiency, the center 2 ohm speaker in the dash will play much louder than the doors if not replaced at the same time, making it to loud relative to the door speakers. Car audio is full of marketing gimicks. The amplifiers put out both voltage and amperage with amperage being far more important than voltage. Amperage is what makes the toaster coils hot or the real work. Most amp manufacturers try to make wattage numbers high by voltage and higher distortion. Most amps won't give the amperage numbers because they are so poor. I would rather have an amp that puts out 5 amps and 50 watts over a 200 watt amp that only has one amp output for example. The numbers are misleading at best. The low output amp will sound very polite comared to the high amp output one. Distortion increases dramatically when an amp is pushed to it limits, thus it may be far better to get some good amps to power an inefficient 4 ohm speaker with a much higher watt rated amp into four ohms with low distortion numbers at the output that you would likely use. You may be amazed at how good the base is with a good amp. The stock unit is voiced horribly. It sounds dull with to much mid bass and not enough real low base. Crossover points for the eq is poor to say the least. i've never heard a good Blaupunkt system as the highs are muted. Hope this helps.

[zepcom]

Good info here, thanks GL3!

Sent from my EVO 4g via Tapatalk

[GT-610]

heres the numbers on audio: when you double the distance away from a speaker,1 foot to 2 feet to 4 feet and then 8,it decreases by 6 db every time.thats the math.it doesnt matter.amps are important too,but the most important numbers are the RMS rating and the sensitivity.I dont know "effecent" means,think he meant "efficient"(as said earlier)paper cones are not more efficient they suck.stock speaker in our cars are the cheapest possible.thats why you dont see the name until you pull it out.aftermarket #'s should be well into the 90's,stocks are probably low 80's in db.even with a 4ohm speaker youll get much more volume from them with much higher sensitivity.GL3 is right,aftermarket co's hype up the watts for example and in reality if you actually hear anyting over 10 true watts to the ear youll go deaf! thats how inefficient electronics really are. power is lost quickly in transducers(ie. speakers,mics)

[GL3]

heres the numbers on audio: when you double the distance away from a speaker,1 foot to 2 feet to 4 feet and then 8,it decreases by 6 db every time.thats the math.it doesnt matter.amps are important too,but the most important numbers are the RMS rating and the sensitivity.I dont know "effecent" means,think he meant "efficient"(as said earlier)paper cones are not more efficient they suck.stock speaker in our cars are the cheapest possible.thats why you dont see the name until you pull it out.aftermarket #'s should be well into the 90's,stocks are probably low 80's in db.even with a 4ohm speaker youll get much more volume from them with much higher sensitivity.GL3 is right,aftermarket co's hype up the watts for example and in reality if you actually hear anyting over 10 true watts to the ear youll go deaf! thats how inefficient electronics really are. power is lost quickly in transducers(ie. speakers,mics)

Yes i did spell efficient incorrectly. The words sensitivity and efficiency are synonyms in this case. This means how loud a speaker will play with the standard 1 watt at one meter distance. The reason this is important, is because for every 3 db increase in volume, it takes double the power. Example: a speaker that plays 86 db with one watt, will play 89 with 2, 92 with 4, 95 with 8, 98 with 16 and 101 with 32 watts. If you try to play 101 db with a 30 watt amp, you will clip the amp and send a square wave to the speaker which will eventually be its demise. As you can see in the example, the higher volumes at loud levels require tremendous amounts of power. You ALWAYS want some headroom with a higher powered amp. In the above example, if you want to play 101 db, a 64 watt amp will only give you 3 db of headroom, so the better way to go is at least 100 watt amp for some cushion. BTW there are many compromises with car audio that must be made in the construction of speaker. Most specifically, with the high temperatures a car speaker must endure, the glues used must be able to handle the heat and stay together. This affects the surround material as well as voice coil adhesive. These are usually heavy when you want to keep it light. The heavier the speaker, meaning the parts that move, not the basket, magnet etc., the harder it is for the amp to control the movement back and forth. This will cause distortion. Foam is a light weight surround material, but not long lasting in a car environment. Butyl rubber or neoprene will last longer typically but weighs more. The mass must be kept low for high frequencies most importantly, so this is why you are better off having separate drivers IE light weight tweeter and a heavier cone woofer. If the woofer is crossed over for example at 400hz it can be heavier and not affect the sound as much as one that is the same weight but crosses over at 1000hz. The highs will have more distortion because the woofer is expected to to move rapidly and due to the inertia one moving and stopping will likely overshoot and undershoot from the signal applied to it. Again, this is a cause of distortion. I prefer a well designed two way over a 3 way. More isn't better if they don't spend the money on the crossover for good sound and i've found in car audio, this is rarely done. In summation, i would get a speaker for the doors with a two way separate woofer/tweeter combo. i haven't heard any that i've liked yet to replace mine except perhaps the Infinity. I'm in Ventura County California and will likely need to go to LA for a better selection. The problem is that most are 4 ohm speakers that will likely make the center to loud. It will likely cause me to buy a couple of better amps. I do suggest the best way to tell is don't use ANY EQ when testing. Listen flat and you will notice more if the bass has balls or is to polite. Plus you don't know on what deck you are using, where there crossover points are. Thus for a true apples to apples comparison, due all of you listening in a flat mode without trebble/base bias. If you go for amps, try to find ones that have an amperage rating. Most are embarrassingly low, so they tend not to publish. Harmon Kardon used to make some good ones and they published. Haven't checked lately, but with the HK's, 50 watt rating with 5 amps would be better than 100 watts with 2 amps output capability.

[dandragonrage]

They're not synonyms in this case whatsoever. The efficiency of a speaker is a ratio and can be measured in percent if you like, and IIRC our dynamic loudspeakers are only around 1% efficient... The sensitivity and efficiency are directly proportional but they are NOT the same thing.

[matthewo]

more is usually worse, thats why i only run 2 tweeters and 2 midbasses in the front door, and 1 sub. a 2 way frontstage only is much easier to make sound correct than throwing rear fill in there and more speakers. believe me it gets plenty loud and running a dls a4 "big four" rated conservativley at 75 watt per channel at 4 ohm.

time alighnment plays a big part, thats what makes an active set shine. being able to time delay drivers that are in different locations so they act as if they are all the same distance apart.

[GT-610]

Yes i did spell efficient incorrectly. The words sensitivity and efficiency are synonyms in this case. This means how loud a speaker will play with the standard 1 watt at one meter distance. The reason this is important, is because for every 3 db increase in volume, it takes double the power. Example: a speaker that plays 86 db with one watt, will play 89 with 2, 92 with 4, 95 with 8, 98 with 16 and 101 with 32 watts


dont worry,i get it.All that stuff is audio 101 when i went to college for audio engineering.
my input was for fiveoh,not you,GL3.you dont seem to need any advice here ! :)

[GT-610]

its funny because most people think if you double the power you get twice the volume and the truth is you would have to make 8 times the power to do so.10db increase "sounds like" twice as loud.Again,reinforcing why that sensitivty rating is so important sqeezing out a few more db's for free!

[dandragonrage]

Actually, you need 10x the power to get 10dB. The formula for power is 10log10(Pout/Pin) (or Pnew/Pold if you prefer to think of it that way)

[GT-610]

8x would be 9db gain,i was rounding off

[dandragonrage]

Hmmm do the ID's or orions sound better? Any suggestions on a parts express midbass? I've already got a sub in the trunk and yanked the factory 8's.

Dayton Reference series would be good. I would take that over the woofers in most component sets. Though they need a lowpass filter, which the stock probably doesn't have. Aluminum cone speakers usually sound much nastier in the higher frequency range than paper cones do.

[todds87ss]

Ryan, in my experience, if you find a 93db speaker, it will outshine the 2 ohm factory speaker.

[GT-610]

Ryan, in my experience, if you find a 93db speaker, it will outshine the 2 ohm factory speaker.

oh definitely!

[fiveoh]

Ryan, in my experience, if you find a 93db speaker, it will outshine the 2 ohm factory speaker.

Well since I dont have the g8 anymore it doesnt really matter. ;) Good info in this thread thou.