Pulley swap

[wreckwriter]

Charlie, there was a post in the other forum where someone said you need to pull top radiator hose to get fans out for pulley. As I recall you said not needed. I can't find the post. Please expand on getting fans out without dumping coolant.

Thanks!

[GRRRR8]

It is tricky, but PATIENCE is everything! Unclip the oil cooler lines from the fans, unclip the fan assembly, slide back a little and rotate passenger side up as you push drivers side down slightly. I found unplugging the connector with the red tab under a/c line on drivers side makes it easier. Make sure fans are unplugged too.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Also, if you can get someone to help hold the upper hose to the right, that helps too.

[GRRRR8]

Ditto! I didnt, but I am just that good! lol You get use to not having an extra set of hands when you do so much stuff on Sundays or late at night!

[wreckwriter]

I'm going to have a shop do it but I want to supply whatever hints I can to avoid having my cooling system dumped.

[GRRRR8]

I have mine drained right now finishing up the hoses. Waiting for some parts for a customers car so I can finish it.

[wreckwriter]

Did you guys install the lower temp thermostat with your pulley? If not, are you seeing any overheating due to the water pump being underdriven?

[Steve]

hmm nothing so far - still rock solid 1 stripe under half (3/8s up?)

[wreckwriter]

Thanks guys. Just checking in case I needed to order more ****. Really don't want to mess with the cooling system unless I have to right now.

[EcoBrick Bob]

Wreck,

I am wondering the same thing about the 160 deg. thermostat. Got it from Mike at New Era, but haven't installed. Have one in my Denali (since 03') and it runs at around 175 deg on hwy. I didn't change fan temp, and am not sure if one can on that vehicle.

VMS says not to install 160 deg. thermostat as the G8 makes best power with engine temp in the 180's. They also claim that a cooler engine will use more GAS! Any opinions as to the CORRECT answer, or if it makes any difference?http://forum.grrrr8.net/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif??

Also saw a post on another site that a low temp engine will gunk up over time. NOW that sounds more like a coolant maintenance issue to me....

Charlie, what's your opinion??

Rob

[GRRRR8]

If the engine temp is too cool you lose combustion chamber efficiency. Hotter oil makes more HPs too. In the south you could get away with it, I will drill 4 small holes and have fan come on 10 degrees cooler. That will be 180ish.

[Chewy]

Copy and pasted from http://hotrodscott.blogspot.com/2007/08/cooler-thermostats.html


Cooler thermostats
Pretty much every hop-up guide for every car out there lists switching to a cooler thermostat as one of the first mods you should do to increase performance. The reasoning behind it is that engine will run cooler, and the cooler the engine the more power it will make. This is true to a certain extent, but it's not as simple as that. In modern cars I think it's a bad idea to run a cooler thermostat without doing a little homework first.

First of all, most new cars have a much more sophisticated method for regulating heat than they did back in the day when engine temperature was solely controlled by the thermostat and and engine-turned fan. Most modern cars are cooled by electric fans regulated by a thermostatically controlled switch, or by the engine's management computer (or quite often both.) In a switched system, the fans will only come on when the coolant reaches a certain preset temperature, so even if you open the thermostat earlier, there will be no fan-driven airflow to cool the hot coolant in the radiator until it gets hot enough to trigger the fan (well over 200 degrees usually.) So in effect, your cooler t-stat is doing nothing unless you add an adjustable switch to bring the engagement point down. In computer controlled system, there is a "fan on" and "fan off" setting, where the "fan on" setting may be 210 degrees, meaning that the computer will turn the fan on when it sees 210 degrees and then turn it off again when it sees it drop back below say, 190. In this type of system, you would have to have to reprogram your vehicle's computer to lower that range or again, it would have no effect. Auto manufacturers spend a lot of time getting the balance just right on that, so you will have to as well. If you set it too low (too close to the t-stat opening point) your fan will be on constantly, which can be annoying and it takes away some margin of control(more on that later.)

Secondly, modern engines are designed to run optimally at a pre-set temperature. Most cars will have basically a "warm-up" mode where it runs a certain tune until it reaches a pre-determined operating temperature, and then it switches to another tune (fuel tables) or will switch from "open-loop" mode (running on a pre-defined set of parameters) to a "closed loop" mode (taking real-time feedback from o2 sensors, etc. and using that info to adjust the tune). (Here's a great article by Mike Wesley that goes into more detail on this specifically on the EEC-IV Ford computer.) If you do not allow the engine to reach the temperature required to make that switch, you will never leave that "warm-up" mode and your car will not run efficiently. One of the nice things about modern EFI setups is their adaptability. You can make all sorts of mods, and they will adapt (to a certain extent) to keep the desired A/F ratio even though you have increased the airflow into your engine. If your car never reaches the closed-loop (adaptive) mode and relies on the pre-programmed fuel tables, your A/F could be way off and you nullify your gains unless you've reprogrammed your ECU. Additionally, without the engine running optimally, you will get worse fuel economy. The engine's emission systems are designed to operate at those pre-set temps, so your car will potentially put out a lot more emissions at lower temps, which will make it much harder to pass a smog test. Some folks don't care too much about emissions (yet) but for them, this problem will manifest itself by giving the car that "fat" or "rich" smell that stings the eyes a little bit. That's no good either. I had a 454SS pickup that I was told had a 160 degree t-stat when I bought it. It was sluggish, the exhaust smell was terrible and the truck got around 8MPG. Luckily, a month or two later, the thermostat stuck on me and the truck started to overheat. I swapped in a stock t-stat (195, IIRC) and it ran like a different truck! It smelled better, ran more smoothly and got almost 10MPG! (I know that still sucks, but that's almost a 25% gain!)

Earlier I mentioned control. The thermostat, fans and radiator work in conjunction to keep your coolant in a certain temperature range. If you lower your thermostat (so it's basically always open at normal running temps) and always have your fan on, the only thing controlling your temperature is the efficiency of your radiator. If it's a hot day, or you're climbing a lot of hills with the A/C on in summertime, additional demands are placed on your cooling system. The open t-stat might start letting the water flow through the system so fast that the radiator does not get a chance to cool it down below 160 degrees and so "hot" coolant starts getting re-introduced into the engine where more heat is added. This creates a heat-soak situation and the system will lose its ability to control the temperature. A stock higher-rated t-stat combined with a longer-range window of fan operation (computer controlled) will hold the coolant in the radiator longer and cool more efficiently. I had this happen on my 83 Mustang GT, and later again on a 95 Mustang GTS that came with a 160 degree t-stat. Both times the problem was solved by switching to a warmer t-stat.

So will a cooler thermostat make more power? Maybe. If done correctly and tweaked to match your combo, sure, but it's not a simple "plug-and-play" operation anymore!

[EcoBrick Bob]

Charlie,

You are drilling 4 small holes in your original thermostat? How small?

Thanks for the detailed explanation - 4gasem! Realize I would have to reprogram G8 fans with DashHawk.

Just thought I would want to change thermostat (if desirable) when I drop coolant for Charlie's hose mod. Sounds like I wouldn't notice much difference and could possibly screw something up..... (middle name - "Murphy")

RRM

[wreckwriter]

Charlie,

You are drilling 4 small holes in your original thermostat? How small?

Thanks for the detailed explanation - 4gasem! Realize I would have to reprogram G8 fans with DashHawk.

Just thought I would want to change thermostat (if desirable) when I drop coolant for Charlie's hose mod. Sounds like I wouldn't notice much difference and could possibly screw something up..... (middle name - "Murphy")

RRM

Nope, not that easy Rob. Dashhawk fan changes reset when you restart the car if not sooner. Has to be done in a tune if you want it to stick. Personally I'm leaving mine as stock.

(sorry, wrong button - George)

[GeorgeInNePa]

Charlie,

You are drilling 4 small holes in your original thermostat? How small?

Thanks for the detailed explanation - 4gasem! Realize I would have to reprogram G8 fans with DashHawk.

Just thought I would want to change thermostat (if desirable) when I drop coolant for Charlie's hose mod. Sounds like I wouldn't notice much difference and could possibly screw something up..... (middle name - "Murphy")

RRM

Nope, not that easy Rob. Dashhawk fan changes reset when you restart the car if not sooner. Has to be done in a tune if you want it to stick. Personally I'm leaving mine as stock.

(sorry, wrong button - George)
Doesn't the Vector tune change the stock settings?

[wreckwriter]

Charlie,

You are drilling 4 small holes in your original thermostat? *How small?

Thanks for the detailed explanation - 4gasem! *Realize I would have to reprogram G8 fans with DashHawk. *

Just thought I would want to change thermostat *(if desirable) when I drop coolant for Charlie's hose mod. *Sounds like I wouldn't notice much difference and could possibly screw something up..... *(middle name - "Murphy")

RRM
Nope, not that easy Rob. Dashhawk fan changes reset when you restart the car if not sooner. Has to be done in a tune if you want it to stick. Personally I'm leaving mine as stock.

(sorry, wrong button - George)Doesn't the Vector tune change the stock settings?
I don't think so. They certain can change it but I don't think they do as a standard. Could be wrong though.

['02 ws6]

You are right Charlie. No tuner will change Your fan settings unless you have a cooler thermostat. This has and always will be a highly debated topic among the lsx Community. Basically though, these Engines were built for optimum efficiency and cleaning at higher temps. in my ta I am still running my stocker and while changing my heads @ 50k miles there was still some noticeable cross hatch on the cylinder walls so in theory it does work in the prevention of carbon buildup over time, and on that pretext its why ill stay with the stock thermo on any ls based engine.

[GRRRR8]

Charlie,

You are drilling 4 small holes in your original thermostat? How small?

Thanks for the detailed explanation - 4gasem! Realize I would have to reprogram G8 fans with DashHawk.

Just thought I would want to change thermostat (if desirable) when I drop coolant for Charlie's hose mod. Sounds like I wouldn't notice much difference and could possibly screw something up..... (middle name - "Murphy")

RRM

Gonna be 3/32 or smaller.

[wreckwriter]

FedEx just brought my pulley. Converter scheduled to be here tomorrow but that will probably be delayed due to storm. Hoping for kooks to ship soon...

[GRRRR8]

Soon you can out run the storm! :auto:

[Chewy]

Are you guys going to NEP or someone else for these?

I guess we can actually talk about where else we can go here... :eyeroll:

I think NEP was 173 or so which didn't sound horrible to me.

Thoughts?

[wreckwriter]

Are you guys going to NEP or someone else for these?

I guess we can actually talk about where else we can go here... :eyeroll:

I think NEP was 173 or so which didn't sound horrible to me.

Thoughts?

I got mine from NEP. Haddad also sells them, probably others too.

[GRRRR8]

Are you guys going to NEP or someone else for these?

I guess we can actually talk about where else we can go here... :eyeroll:

I think NEP was 173 or so which didn't sound horrible to me.

Thoughts?

I refer everyone to New Era. $179.95 and great, fast service.

[wreckwriter]

Mine was shipped the same day I ordered it.

[Steve]

NEP all the way - though with Mike being all the way back east it took a while to get here to WA State

[-Ray-]

Why not support New Era. Great guy's, and it's where I got mine.

[Chewy]

Why not support New Era. Great guy's, and it's where I got mine.

No reason not to. Just wondering if that was what everyone is doing. I got my CAI from them and have been VERY happy indeed.

Will do...:thumbsup:

[g8_795]

Can anybody talk to any side effects that they are seeing from the 25% under drive pulley? Good or bad? Seems like a cheap mod to get a few extra ponies....
Thanks,
-Robert

[GRRRR8]

It is cheap easyish HP. It saves Alt life by slowing it down, and my alt doesnt sound like a supercharger any more. It helps on the big end HP the most. About 7 less pounds hanging off the front of the crank too! No effects on A/C at all because it is not underdriven. Pulley and HSRK are 2 of the best bangs for the buck!

[Chewy]

I just bought one from a board member for 205 shipped with the ARP bolt and the right belt. Feel like I got a pretty good deal... Brand new in the box still.

Can't wait to install it!

[EcoBrick Bob]

Update on 160 deg Thermostat from NEP that I installed last week.

I am getting 80 - 82 deg Cent. at continuous 60 mph driving with 75-80 deg F. outside temps. This means I am seeing about a 7-10 deg. F. drop in temp.
Heats up to 85-86 deg. C. when going slow or when you floor it.

Fans have not been re-programmed, nor have I manually turned them on high via DashHawk. Will try this to see what happens next week.

RRM

[GeorgeInNePa]

I just bought one from a board member for 205 shipped with the ARP bolt and the right belt. Feel like I got a pretty good deal... Brand new in the box still.

Can't wait to install it!

Saw that. If I didn't already have one, I'd have bought it.

That was a good deal.

[Chewy]

Saw that. If I didn't already have one, I'd have bought it.

That was a good deal.

Thanks! He seems like a pretty good guy but not sure why he asked for us to email him and then he didn't email me back... :wacko:

I just hope I get them... lol I now have everything but the tune for this car... OH... I forgot... I DON'T have the car yet...:spank: :hang:

[G8GT594]

How much HP we talking here? I remember reading something like 5-8hp.

[GeorgeInNePa]

How much HP we talking here? I remember reading something like 5-8hp.

Yes, that's what I've read. Don't forget, the balancer/pulley is also lighter than stock so the engine loses a bit of weight on the crank. Let's the engine rev faster.

[Chewy]

Well I got mine on Friday! 205 bucks shipped with the ARP bolt and Gates belt all brand new in the box. I love it! I guess waiting forever for your car DOES have SOME advantages... :mellow: