L92 heads off, AFR 230 V2 heads on, 504rwhp 6.0L automatic!

[Patrick G]

I am so happy, you can't even believe it. Ever since the L92 heads came out, a lot of people think that a cathedral port head can't keep up. I didn't believe it and neither did Tony Mamo from Airflow Research (AFR). I own a 2009 Pontiac G8 with a 6.0L L76 engine. With ARH 1 7/8" headers, FAST 102 intake, Yella Terra 1.85 rockers, ASP 25% UD pulley, and Vararam CAI, the G8 made 397rwhp/395rwtq. This was one of the higher dynoing bolt-on 6.0L G8s. Most 6.0L G8s make in the 420-440rwhp range with bolt ons and a 230/238 cam. The highest number I've seen for a 6.0L G8 automatic has been 470rwhp and this one had ported L92 heads.

Tony Mamo and I decided to go "old school" and take off the Gen IV L92 heads and install a set of AFRs brand new 230 V2 heads. We called this our "Back to the Future Project". I had these heads milled to 65cc chamber so they matched the cc volume of an LS2 head (11.0:1 SCR). Then Tony Mamo did one of his famous porting jobs on a cathedral port FAST 102 intake. We used a fairly mild 231/231 .617/.617" 114LSA +2 advance Comp LSL cam. The gains were staggering: 504rwhp/440rwtq. A gain of 107rwhp/45rwtq. Keep in mind, this is through a locked-up automatic. Most people think that there is little to be gained over L92 heads, but thanks to the huge flow numbers and high airspeed of the AFR 230 and the "mamofied" FAST 102, substantial gains can be had.

There is still more power to be gained with a 102mm throttle body and larger airbox as we were pulling 5-6 kPa vacuum at WOT. Stay tuned for more details on the "Back to the Future Project". There's another 10-15rwhp to be gained with reducing inlet restrictions.

[Patrick G]

Here's a You Tube video of the dyno pull:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZBy3TT9QQg

[GeorgeInNePa]

Charles is going to shit himself when he reads this...

[Patrick G]

Charles is going to shit himself when he reads this...I sent him a text right after the dyno run. He must have had his phone off because I got no reply.

[who?me?]

so what do those heads run?

[travis gore]

very impressive gains Patrick.

[wnt2gofst]

Wow nice. I geuss I need to come back down so we can run again. Lol. Very impressive Patrick. Can't wait to see rest of the results

[boi1da]

Subscribed

[Devilish34]

I am so happy, you can't even believe it. Ever since the L92 heads came out, a lot of people think that a cathedral port head can't keep up. I didn't believe it and neither did Tony Mamo from Airflow Research (AFR). I own a 2009 Pontiac G8 with a 6.0L L76 engine. With ARH 1 7/8" headers, FAST 102 intake, Yella Terra 1.85 rockers, ASP 25% UD pulley, and Vararam CAI, the G8 made 397rwhp/395rwtq. This was one of the higher dynoing bolt-on 6.0L G8s. Most 6.0L G8s make in the 420-440rwhp range with bolt ons and a 230/238 cam. The highest number I've seen for a 6.0L G8 automatic has been 470rwhp and this one had ported L92 heads.

Tony Mamo and I decided to go "old school" and take off the Gen IV L92 heads and install a set of AFRs brand new 230 V2 heads. We called this our "Back to the Future Project". I had these heads milled to 65cc chamber so they matched the cc volume of an LS2 head (11.0:1 SCR). Then Tony Mamo did one of his famous porting jobs on a cathedral port FAST 102 intake. We used a fairly mild 231/231 .617/.617" 114LSA +2 advance Comp LSL cam. The gains were staggering: 504rwhp/440rwtq. A gain of 107rwhp/45rwtq. Keep in mind, this is through a locked-up automatic. Most people think that there is little to be gained over L92 heads, but thanks to the huge flow numbers and high airspeed of the AFR 230 and the "mamofied" FAST 102, substantial gains can be had.

There is still more power to be gained with a 102mm throttle body and larger airbox as we were pulling 5-6 kPa vacuum at WOT. Stay tuned for more details on the "Back to the Future Project". There's another 10-15rwhp to be gained with reducing inlet restrictions.

Nice!!!!! You said your converter was locked and I believe Charlies was unlocked. Do you think if locked Charlies would be around the same as yours or???

[Patrick G]

Nice!!!!! You said your converter was locked and I believe Charlies was unlocked. Do you think the locked Charlies would be around the same as yours or???We'll have to find out next time he comes down to update his tune. Perhaps then I'll have my 102mm TB and larger airbox piping and we could compare on the dyno and on the street.

[Devilish34]

Are you going to get it to the track before you add the TB and AB?

[edmanet]

so what do those heads run?


I'm guessing around $3K

[Bonnetts02Vette]

well worth whatever they cost. amazing numbers. get the other stuff and put down like 525rwhp. think you could get more with a little bigger cam or is that the best cam for the combo.

also with mamo doing his magic i bet those heads are more like 4 to 4500 for a set, but well worth it.

[jimmytt6]

Very Nice!!! thanks for sharing info..
Any video clip of G8 just idling with that cam? What RPM does it idle with that cam?

[got em coach]

Nice numbers. I guess i should have waited a week or so to start my build. then i could have copied you lol

[Bonnetts02Vette]

i def know im going for these heads and fast 102 intake manifold and having them mamofied. he has always done amazing work. hes a machining god

[Patrick G]

Are you going to get it to the track before you add the TB and AB?Hopefully so. Right now, I don't have any drag radials. Need to get some soon. I plan on competing in the Texas Mile October 22-24, but with any luck, I'll have some sticky tires and 1/4 slips for the current combo.


well worth whatever they cost. amazing numbers. get the other stuff and put down like 525rwhp. think you could get more with a little bigger cam or is that the best cam for the combo.

also with mamo doing his magic i bet those heads are more like 4 to 4500 for a set, but well worth it.This cam is so mild. There is absolutely no bucking or surging at all. That's one of the reasons why I ran only 231 duration on the exhaust (to keep overlap down). With a 239/243 cam, there's probably another 10-15 rwhp in it but it would kill the sweet street manners. The heads are around $3000 with the upgraded 8019 springs and lightweight (85gram) intake valves.


Very Nice!!! thanks for sharing info..
Any video clip of G8 just idling with that cam? What RPM does it idle with that cam?As soon as it stops raining, I will record a clip of the car idling. I have the car idling at 800 rpm.

[Executor999]

I am so happy, you can't even believe it. Ever since the L92 heads came out, a lot of people think that a cathedral port head can't keep up. I didn't believe it and neither did Tony Mamo from Airflow Research (AFR). I own a 2009 Pontiac G8 with a 6.0L L76 engine. With ARH 1 7/8" headers, FAST 102 intake, Yella Terra 1.85 rockers, ASP 25% UD pulley, and Vararam CAI, the G8 made 397rwhp/395rwtq. This was one of the higher dynoing bolt-on 6.0L G8s. Most 6.0L G8s make in the 420-440rwhp range with bolt ons and a 230/238 cam. The highest number I've seen for a 6.0L G8 automatic has been 470rwhp and this one had ported L92 heads.

Holy crap! I'm glad I haven't pulled the trigger on CNC ported heads yet. Guess I'm going to just sit back and learn. Awesome results Patrick! I assume you still have your stock mufflers on. :)

[GRRRR8]

That is awesome Patrick! I can match that HP, not sure about the TQ. :)

[edmanet]

Hopefully so. Right now, I don't have any drag radials. Need to get some soon. I plan on competing in the Texas Mile October 22-24, but with any luck, I'll have some sticky tires and 1/4 slips for the current combo.

This cam is so mild. There is absolutely no bucking or surging at all. That's one of the reasons why I ran only 231 duration on the exhaust (to keep overlap down). With a 239/243 cam, there's probably another 10-15 rwhp in it but it would kill the sweet street manners. The heads are around $3000 with the upgraded 8019 springs and lightweight (85gram) intake valves.

As soon as it stops raining, I will record a clip of the car idling. I have the car idling at 800 rpm.

If you lived closer I'd let you borrow my CCW drag pack with a bias ply setup......LOL

[fiveoh]

Wow thats amazing. Can't wait to see some 1/4 mile times.

So you estimate these heads are worth roughly 30-40rwhp over an L92 head?

I'd also like to know what kind of mpgs you get once you drive it a while.

Is this with the stock stall?

[texn884]

That is amazing Patrick. Your car will be able to out run almost anyhting on the road. If I had the $$'s I would let you do the same to my car.
I think maybe later this year get some headers for the car.

You do amazing work Patrick.

[bwooten492]

So was the choice to go with cathedral port heads just to show that they can flow just as well or are the new AFR's out flowing all the rectangular style heads? Also, I'm assuming the single split duration was only possible because of the choice of heads correct?

[Devilish34]

Hopefully so. Right now, I don't have any drag radials. Need to get some soon. I plan on competing in the Texas Mile October 22-24, but with any luck, I'll have some sticky tires and 1/4 slips for the current combo.



Get cracking or I'll get polo to make you a custom RFW pic

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h171/devilish34/fairy.jpg

[GeorgeInNePa]

I still giggle whenever I see that...

[Patrick G]

Here's an idle clip. Sorry for the wind noise and mud on the car. We are having a tropical storm blowing through today and I just caught a break to record this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqbUSQAEmaY

[Patrick G]

Wow thats amazing. Can't wait to see some 1/4 mile times.

So you estimate these heads are worth roughly 30-40rwhp over an L92 head?

I'd also like to know what kind of mpgs you get once you drive it a while.

Is this with the stock stall?So far, fuel economy is better in 8 cylinder mode than my stock L76 in 8 cylinder mode. Not sure if it's going to be better than the 4 cylinder mode, but we will see.


So was the choice to go with cathedral port heads just to show that they can flow just as well or are the new AFR's out flowing all the rectangular style heads? Also, I'm assuming the single split duration was only possible because of the choice of heads correct?I went with the cathedral port heads because they flat outperform the rectangular port heads on a 4" bore. It's not just flow, but also airspeed. The flow of the AFR heads on the exhaust side is so good, that it was unnecessary to run more than 231 degrees of exhaust duration. You can see how well it carries up high. A single pattern cam may have not been the best choice for an L92 head.

[Devilish34]

Here's an idle clip. Sorry for the wind noise and mud on the car. We are having a tropical storm blowing through today and I just caught a break to record this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqbUSQAEmaY

Sounds as quiet as mine

[parish8]

that is some crazy NA power! nice work.

[SRG963]

Nice!

Subscribed :)

[Steve GT]

Impressive.

[polo]

Get cracking or I'll get polo to make you a custom RFW pic


Just give me the word!

...and Patrick, those numbers are crazy for a NA car!

[Mike P]

Nice work Pat......



...

[SpeedRacerX]

Subscribing. Very nice Patrick! Holy crap - single turbo and supercharger range there!!!

Couple questions...

Was that the Stock stall?

Also, could someone do this in two stages? Stage 1 - THAT cam + the rest of the "less expensive" bolt-on items and then Stage 2 - heads, fast, machining & porting, re-tune, etc?? The other way for me to ask the question is will that specific cam still be ok without the heads & manifold work?

[irnwkrkev]

NO!

[98aggie]

Subscribing. Very nice Patrick! Holy crap - single turbo and supercharger range there!!!

Couple questions...

Was that the Stock stall?

Also, could someone do this in two stages? Stage 1 - THAT cam + the rest of the "less expensive" bolt-on items and then Stage 2 - heads, fast, machining & porting, re-tune, etc?? The other way for me to ask the question is will that specific cam still be ok without the heads & manifold work?


It would have been nice to do in 2 stages but you have to do the DOD delete (change lifters) to run this cam. It is to much work and money to pull the heads again to swap them.

[SpeedRacerX]

It would have been nice to do in 2 stages but you have to do the DOD delete (change lifters) to run this cam. It is to much work and money to pull the heads again to swap them.

I keep forgetting about the DOD crap we have. Makes sense. Sorry for the brain fart.

[Tweaky]

So stock L92 heads, intake and TB, with ??? cam; to new cam, high dollar (plus milled, and ported?), high dollar (and ported) intake and TB, for total gain of 34whp? Seems low actually. Am I missing some prior mods...like FAST102, ported L92's or what? Also, specs on previous cam?

Not trying to be an ass, just want to be sure I am looking at the total package. How would the AFR/FAST cathedral setup compare to a Mast/FAST rectangular setup, given equivalent cams? The Mast heads are a better comparison, as they cost about the same as the AFR heads are presumed to run.

[johnbell2]

I knew the reason I bought this car was the drivetrain's potential - nice work, I'm in awe.

[irnwkrkev]

We might have a good comparison if Charlie ever posts his CURRENT #'s, but that's up to him.

[Patrick G]

So stock L92 heads, intake and TB, with ??? cam; to new cam, high dollar (plus milled, and ported?), high dollar (and ported) intake and TB, for total gain of 34whp? Seems low actually. Am I missing some prior mods...like FAST102, ported L92's or what? Also, specs on previous cam?

Not trying to be an ass, just want to be sure I am looking at the total package. How would the AFR/FAST cathedral setup compare to a Mast/FAST rectangular setup, given equivalent cams? The Mast heads are a better comparison, as they cost about the same as the AFR heads are presumed to run.Total gain was 107rwhp, not 34. I was previously making 397rwhp with stock cam and lots of bolts ons then made 504 with the new heads/intake/cam.

If you take away the 13rwhp gain I got from my 1.85 rockers, my starting bolt-on rwhp would have been 384. That means my heads and cam gained me more like 120rwhp (since I am running stock 1.7 ratio LS2 rockers now). That's a huge gain no matter how you slice it. For what it's worth, I sold my stock L92 heads with upgraded springs, my rectangular port FAST 102, my 1.85 Yella Terra 1.85 L92 rockers, and 7.450" pushrods for some good coin to offset the conversion cost. I've only seen two MAST dynos on 4.0" bore applications and both were underwhelming. Maybe future ones will be better.

[Bonnetts02Vette]

to gain 120rwhp for around 5000 bucks is awesome and a better hp per $ ratio than any sc or turbo i can think of for the price and he will have all that power at the tip of his fingers immediately. with that power and a decent setup i could see him running low 11s, like 11.2 or 11.3 and trap in the low 120s, which is amazing in 4100lb car. a great setup with a great launch and 60ft time and i can see a 10.9 or 11.0. the potential is definitely there for the times.

i know im selling my stock L92 heads and everything associated with it and going with these AFR heads and the more agressive cam. i cant wait.

[Mike P]

Total gain was 107rwhp, not 34. I was previously making 397rwhp with stock cam and lots of bolts ons then made 504 with the new heads/intake/cam.

If you take away the 13rwhp gain I got from my 1.85 rockers, my starting bolt-on rwhp would have been 384. That means my heads and cam gained me more like 120rwhp (since I am running stock 1.7 ratio LS2 rockers now). That's a huge gain no matter how you slice it. For what it's worth, I sold my stock L92 heads with upgraded springs, my rectangular port FAST 102, my 1.85 Yella Terra 1.85 L92 rockers, and 7.450" pushrods for some good coin to offset the conversion cost. I've only seen two MAST dynos on 4.0" bore applications and both were underwhelming. Maybe future ones will be better.


I'm looking forward to seeing what kinda 1/4 times and MPH you put up at the track.... It should be kick @ss yummy! :)



...

[SpeedRacerX]

to gain 120rwhp for around 5000 bucks is awesome and a better hp per $ ratio than any sc or turbo i can think of for the price and he will have all that power at the tip of his fingers immediately. with that power and a decent setup i could see him running low 11s, like 11.2 or 11.3 and trap in the low 120s, which is amazing in 4100lb car. a great setup with a great launch and 60ft time and i can see a 10.9 or 11.0. the potential is definitely there for the times.

i know im selling my stock L92 heads and everything associated with it and going with these AFR heads and the more agressive cam. i cant wait.

I agree that the gains are phenominal but I think there's about $5K alone just in parts there ($3K heads, $1K FAST, $1K for CAM and everything else involved with the heads and the CAM), let alone, the machining of the heads, the porting of the fast, the cam install and rest of the install, the tuning, etc. I'd say for me to duplicate this and have someone do the work, I'm looking at $6-7K including labor. We're now back in Maggie or Single Turbo territory.

By the way, I love the idea of 500rwhp NA. I just need to run all the numbers to plan the best path.

[GeoffA]

With ARH 1 7/8" headers, FAST 102 intake, Yella Terra 1.85 rockers, ASP 25% UD pulley, and Vararam CAI, the G8 made 397rwhp/395rwtq

Damn nice numbers, these are impressive too w/o a cam!

[hulkss]

I504rwhp/440rwtq. A gain of 107rwhp/45rwtq. Keep in mind, this is through a locked-up automatic.

How does one lock up the stock automatic during a dyno run? Can the torque converter clutch handle the load OK?

[G8GT594]

to gain 120rwhp for around 5000 bucks is awesome and a better hp per $ ratio than any sc or turbo i can think of for the price and he will have all that power at the tip of his fingers immediately. with that power and a decent setup i could see him running low 11s, like 11.2 or 11.3 and trap in the low 120s, which is amazing in 4100lb car. a great setup with a great launch and 60ft time and i can see a 10.9 or 11.0. the potential is definitely there for the times.

i know im selling my stock L92 heads and everything associated with it and going with these AFR heads and the more agressive cam. i cant wait.

Great number indeed. I always knew I should have got better flowing heads but didn't have the coin at the time to get them. However, the car won't see 10s with 500wheel. With a good 60 I would say mid to higher 11s.

[youngrushhour]

Great number indeed. I always knew I should have got better flowing heads but didn't have the coin at the time to get them. However, the car won't see 10s with 500wheel. With a good 60 I would say mid to higher 11s.

What?

He'll be well into the 11s.

I'm running a 12.50 in the middle of the summer with over 140 HP less than Pat G's car right now. He'll be well into the 11s.

[98aggie]

We might have a good comparison if Charlie ever posts his CURRENT #'s, but that's up to him.

Waiting on Charlie to bring his car back down.


I agree that the gains are phenominal but I think there's about $5K alone just in parts there ($3K heads, $1K FAST, $1K for CAM and everything else involved with the heads and the CAM), let alone, the machining of the heads, the porting of the fast, the cam install and rest of the install, the tuning, etc. I'd say for me to duplicate this and have someone do the work, I'm looking at $6-7K including labor. We're now back in Maggie or Single Turbo territory.

By the way, I love the idea of 500rwhp NA. I just need to run all the numbers to plan the best path.

Patrick has cheap labor down here.


Car should run mid 11's with 120mph trap. I think he weighed in at 4200lbs last time at the track.

[GRRRR8]

Waiting on Charlie to bring his car back down.

It wont be long buddy! Just waiting for weather to cool a bit and finish a few things up. I hope to break 500, but if not........NEW MOTOR! :)

[G8GT721]

^The old ones tired? whats it got 6k on it , lol

[who?me?]

4200lbs. ? Mine wieghed 3998 with me in it and I weigh 265lbs. Got some lead in there?

[G8GT594]

What?

He'll be well into the 11s.

I'm running a 12.50 in the middle of the summer with over 140 HP less than Pat G's car right now. He'll be well into the 11s.

Did I not just say that? I said mid 11s. Your thinking 500 wheel will bring him to low 11s? If that was the case you would be seeing a lot of g8s in the 10s because they're are several pushing 550 plus then are running 11.5s - 11.2s. That's cutting 1.5x 60s as well.

[Devilish34]

11.79 :p with the stock stall is my guess assuming a fair DA(+1000)

[Cobra]

So Patrick.... if I make monthly payments for the next 5 years, trim the weeds around the building, wash your car, and answer the phone do I get a Grrrr8 discount?

[Bonnetts02Vette]

Did I not just say that? I said mid 11s. Your thinking 500 wheel will bring him to low 11s? If that was the case you would be seeing a lot of g8s in the 10s because they're are several pushing 550 plus then are running 11.5s - 11.2s. That's cutting 1.5x 60s as well.

but if you read my post i also said with right setup which means right suspension and drag pack from CCW and right wheels, right stall, built auto will help also, then he should be low low 11's. he should easily be able to cut an 11.5 with what he has now. plus he doesnt have the added prolly 100 or so lbs of weight that the s/c or turbo setup adds. His power doesnt die off at all up top, its gonna keep pressing on like a freight train, but also he doesnt have any lag at all, its mash the gas and go. Generally N/A with same power as boosted cars, N/A is quicker. He is also going to have more power than 504 as well. When all said and done he should be around the 520-525rwhp level and on pump gas, he could get even higher with race gas. just my $.02 on the subject.

Track prep and weather conditions are also another huge factor. A good prepped track and low DA and very cool weather should make for phenominal times. I could see him busting the personal owned G8 fastest time which i believe is Gr8lovers 11.33. I think the other fast G8's were all shop owned and sponsored.

[GeorgeInNePa]

4200lbs. ? Mine wieghed 3998 with me in it and I weigh 265lbs. Got some lead in there?

Considering a stock G8 weighs 3995lbs, your car has been on a serious diet.

What have you done?

[GeorgeInNePa]

but if you read my post i also said with right setup which means right suspension and drag pack from CCW and right wheels, right stall, built auto will help also, then he should be low low 11's. he should easily be able to cut an 11.5 with what he has now. plus he doesnt have the added prolly 100 or so lbs of weight that the s/c or turbo setup adds. His power doesnt die off at all up top, its gonna keep pressing on like a freight train, but also he doesnt have any lag at all, its mash the gas and go. Generally N/A with same power as boosted cars, N/A is quicker. He is also going to have more power than 504 as well. When all said and done he should be around the 520-525rwhp level and on pump gas, he could get even higher with race gas. just my $.02 on the subject.

Track prep and weather conditions are also another huge factor. A good prepped track and low DA and very cool weather should make for phenominal times. I could see him busting the personal owned G8 fastest time which i believe is Gr8lovers 11.33. I think the other fast G8's were all shop owned and sponsored.

Then we are no where near $5K, in fact these things alone are close to $5K alone.

So, now we're at $10K and you still haven't added labor if you can't DIY.

[Bonnetts02Vette]

ok then i retract my previous statement.

even at around 10k tho its still cheaper than the cost that some people with maggies have in their cars to run the same times. most have heads done, a cam and DOD delete and some suspension stuff

[G8GT594]

but if you read my post i also said with right setup which means right suspension and drag pack from CCW and right wheels, right stall, built auto will help also, then he should be low low 11's. he should easily be able to cut an 11.5 with what he has now. plus he doesnt have the added prolly 100 or so lbs of weight that the s/c or turbo setup adds. His power doesnt die off at all up top, its gonna keep pressing on like a freight train, but also he doesnt have any lag at all, its mash the gas and go. Generally N/A with same power as boosted cars, N/A is quicker. He is also going to have more power than 504 as well. When all said and done he should be around the 520-525rwhp level and on pump gas, he could get even higher with race gas. just my $.02 on the subject.

Track prep and weather conditions are also another huge factor. A good prepped track and low DA and very cool weather should make for phenominal times. I could see him busting the personal owned G8 fastest time which i believe is Gr8lovers 11.33. I think the other fast G8's were all shop owned and sponsored.

11.5 with 500 wheel is possible but not likely. Which is not low 11s. Its mid 11s. You are also missing a huge factor here. Torque. With your logic and my power numbers i should be running mid 10s lol. It just not happening.

[fiveoh]

11.5's is not happening. 11.7-11.9 depending on DA imo. ;)

With a stall and sticky tires11.5's in it.

Just my .02, I hope it goes faster.

['02 ws6]

Wow I'm definitely impressed. All this time I was conforming to the new age thought that cathedrals were primitive and "old school". Nice build Pat, you always seem to have one of the best combos. Good luck in the Texas Mile!

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

[todds87ss]

So stock L92 heads, intake and TB, with ??? cam; to new cam, high dollar (plus milled, and ported?), high dollar (and ported) intake and TB, for total gain of 34whp? Seems low actually. Am I missing some prior mods...like FAST102, ported L92's or what? Also, specs on previous cam?

Not trying to be an ass, just want to be sure I am looking at the total package. How would the AFR/FAST cathedral setup compare to a Mast/FAST rectangular setup, given equivalent cams? The Mast heads are a better comparison, as they cost about the same as the AFR heads are presumed to run.
I see the addition of the ported AFRs, ported the existing FAST intake, and cam yielding 107hp

[G8-4-Speed]

but if you read my post i also said with right setup which means right suspension and drag pack from CCW and right wheels, right stall, built auto will help also, then he should be low low 11's. he should easily be able to cut an 11.5 with what he has now. plus he doesnt have the added prolly 100 or so lbs of weight that the s/c or turbo setup adds. His power doesnt die off at all up top, its gonna keep pressing on like a freight train, but also he doesnt have any lag at all, its mash the gas and go. Generally N/A with same power as boosted cars, N/A is quicker. He is also going to have more power than 504 as well. When all said and done he should be around the 520-525rwhp level and on pump gas, he could get even higher with race gas. just my $.02 on the subject.

Track prep and weather conditions are also another huge factor. A good prepped track and low DA and very cool weather should make for phenominal times. I could see him busting the personal owned G8 fastest time which i believe is Gr8lovers 11.33. I think the other fast G8's were all shop owned and sponsored.

Mine is personally owned. I'm not too far off at 11.38 and that is still using a stock converter. THe plan is to up the bar some and make up the motor HP gap Patrick just put on us. I just ported my heads and milled them to 65 cc's, added a high velocity merge collector to my set of kook's, changed the cam a little, and have axles and a 2800 stall to throw in. The L92's don't like much intake port work just a little on the short turn and that's it. Even tried doing minor filling and that didn't help any either. You would have fill most of the port to keep the airflow right and it just isn't worth it. Now the exhaust will go 270's with a pipe and a little filling on the backside of the bowl so we are back into single pattern cam territory. Now I just need the right cam and hope that will be enough.

Pats made awesome power with the new intake/ heads combo. I think the L92's will get the job done with the right/smart port work and a single pattern cam like Pat is running. With what I have seen on the bench, I think more heads get worse on the intake with the full cnc work instead of better and manage to make up the difference with compression and exhaust flow even if they claim big intake flow numbers.

Again, congrats Pat on the big numbers, When the chance comes, I hope the track has as big a reward as the dyno.

[edmanet]

11.5 with 500 wheel is possible but not likely. Which is not low 11s. Its mid 11s. You are also missing a huge factor here. Torque. With your logic and my power numbers i should be running mid 10s lol. It just not happening.

He's making 80hp more than me but only 40 more torque....knowing what my car runs with CCWs if I had that extra 80hp I know mine would run 11.30s or low 40s. But you are right about that torque number he would need a lot more of it to launch the car to enable it to run 10s.

My guess is you would need something like 575hp/550torque with a good suspension/DR setup to hit the 10s.

[Devilish34]

Hurry up Patrick all us arm chair quaterbacks wana know lol

[fiveoh]

Hurry up Patrick all us arm chair quaterbacks wana know lol

http://www.lonestarmotorsportspark.com/events.php

This sat the tracks open! I know Patricks run his car there before, I saw him there.

[Kermit]

I may be WAY off here but I thought the FAST intake was the best manifold, flow wise, out there and you really did not need to port it or you could not port it anymore? I guess you can still port it?

[hulkss]

How does one lock up the stock automatic during a dyno run? Can the torque converter clutch handle the load OK?

How did Patrick lock up the stock automatic for the dyno run? Or is it not stock?

[who?me?]

hmmm...now you have me wondering. Im going back to the track and weighing in again to make sure! I did it both in and out of the car. I called my brother and my buddy to confirm and niether of them could remember. for now I take back what I said till I weigh it again.

[parish8]

How did Patrick lock up the stock automatic for the dyno run? Or is it not stock?

the stock converter lock up can handle quite a bit of power.

one way to lock it on the dyno is use the standard hptuners(not beta) while logging. if your not running beta you can use more features like bidirectional control. with the beta only a few of the features work. hptuners will lock it up solid.

[SpeedRacerX]

It wont be long buddy! Just waiting for weather to cool a bit and finish a few things up. I hope to break 500, but if not........NEW MOTOR! :)

2011 5.0L Mustang Motor? :boxing:

[SpeedRacerX]

The House of Boost Twin Turbo G8 with a CCW drag pack had 638 rwhp and 675 rwtq to run 11.00@129! Seems like it takes a TON of HP for our G8's to hit 10's.

[G8-4-Speed]

The House of Boost Twin Turbo G8 with a CCW drag pack had 638 rwhp and 675 rwtq to run 11.00@129! Seems like it takes a TON of HP for our G8's to hit 10's.

Alot depends on if you can get the transmission to do what it is suppose to do and if you have strong enough parts to push the 60ft hard. I got to 11.38 with a 100 dry shot using stock injectors and only with a 1.70 60ft(stock converter). So let say that was about 500-525hp......and lots of torque!

[Bonnetts02Vette]

Gr8lover hit 11.33 with 554rwhp and thats with completely stock drive train except a stall. cooler temps and his gears and new built tranny and he should be very very low 11's.

these cars just need to come with powerglides stock lol.

another things is pat is gonna be around the 520rwhp range when all said and done since he has a few more things to do. The heads are untouched by mamo, so he could massage the heads more and get more power out of them, also pat was talking of a more aggressive cam that could add another 10-15rwhp, so if thats the case and everything is matched up great then we are talking like 535-540rwhp, if not a little more in an auto on stock cubes. I bet doing forged higher compression pistons than stock that you could even be pushing more than 540rwhp. Thats in the range of some of the heads, cam, maggie 1900 guys. now you add in 3.73 or 4.10 gears and a great tune along with some other stuff and im seeing some insanely fast times. Im unsure of what percentage of power this 6L80 eats, but presumably at 22% and with 540rwhp thats 659hp at the crank. thats beastly all motor

Even with Pat if hes at around 520rwhp, thats 635hp at the crank, thats ZR1 power and hes all motor 6.0.

Sorry this post is sort of a rant of what could be lol. i got carried away.

i know that if i go this route that i will be going all out and will have mamo massage the heads and intake manifold as well and do a nick williams ported 102mm TB, 239/243 cam, lingenfelter 100mm MAF, electric water pump, full 3" exhaust, and run at least 95 octane fuel all of the time, if not 102 octane in every tank. wonder if 540+rwhp would be possible with that combo?

[johnh]

This thread makes me feel slow...Nice numbers and nice setup there Patrick!

[Patrick G]

I may be WAY off here but I thought the FAST intake was the best manifold, flow wise, out there and you really did not need to port it or you could not port it anymore? I guess you can still port it?I am not using the FAST 102 for the LS3/L76. That Gen IV intake has different ports than the LS1/LS2 Gen III intake I'm using now. The Gen III intakes respond well to Tony Mamo's porting. I don't think porting helps the LS3/L76 FAST intakes very much.


How did Patrick lock up the stock automatic for the dyno run? Or is it not stock?I now have a Yank 3200 stall. I locked the converter with programming on EFI Live.


http://www.lonestarmotorsportspark.com/events.php

This sat the tracks open! I know Patricks run his car there before, I saw him there.Dang! I'm out of town for the next two weekends. The earliest I'll be able to run at the track will be the weekend of Sept 25.

[irnwkrkev]

I think I remember reading about Virginia Speed getting some good numbers porting the fast 102mm for the ls3 on a 427 stroker on LS1Tech. Most haven't reported too much gains with a 6.0l though.

[bwooten492]

http://www.lonestarmotorsportspark.com/events.php

This sat the tracks open! I know Patricks run his car there before, I saw him there.

I doubt he sets any kind of records there. That place sucks.

[Bonnetts02Vette]

Thanx for everything Pat. Just got off the phone with Mamo. Im very pleased to get this build started. Should be an insane build with insane numbers N/A through auto. Cant wait to see your numbers when your actually done tho. I cant check this thread enough times in the day for updates lol

[RODAN]

I think I remember reading about Virginia Speed getting some good numbers porting the fast 102mm for the ls3 on a 427 stroker on LS1Tech. Most haven't reported too much gains with a 6.0l though.

That thread is a great read. 577whp from a 427 w/L92 heads. IIRC they ended up crediting ~35hp to the Fast 102 intake (as modified by VA Speed). I'm very interested in a building a combo like that for the G8... :devil:

Here's the thread: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/662314-l92-dynojet-numbers-plus-plan-b-c-d-e-f.html

[hulkss]

I now have a Yank 3200 stall. I locked the converter with programming on EFI Live.

Can the stock converter be safely locked in the same way? I've read that the 6l80 has a mode in trucks that keeps the converter locked under heavy load.

Tow/Haul Mode

Tow/Haul mode significantly changes the transmission shift pattern to reduce shift cycling and to deliver better performance, control, and cooling when towing or hauling heavy loads. For instance:

• Upshift points are raised at light to mid throttle position to use more of the available engine power for acceleration. Downshift points are raised to enhance engine braking to help slow the vehicle.

• During deceleration, the torque converter clutch (TCC) remains applied at closed throttle at lower speeds to significantly improve the effect of engine braking.

• During acceleration, the TCC is applied in 2nd range and remains applied in 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th. This improves the drivetrain efficiency and significantly lowers transmission sump temperature when towing heavy loads. In Normal mode, the TCC generally applies only in higher ranges and is dependent on throttle position.

• Tow/haul is designed to be most effective when the vehicle and trailer combined weight is at least 75 percent of the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of the vehicle.

• Operation of tow/haul in a lightly loaded or non-loaded vehicle will not cause damage. However, there is no benefit to the selection of tow/haul when the vehicle is unloaded. This situation will cause a firm shift. The tow/haul switch is not a performance switch.

• Selection of tow/haul when unloaded may result in unpleasant engine and transmission driving characteristics and reduced fuel economy. Tow/haul is recommended only when pulling a heavy trailer or a large or heavy load.

[parish8]

i was running 550ish rwhp and locking it at the track. all thru 3rd and 4th.

i was sharing tranny files with a truck and somehow the lock up crept in. at that hp the tranny was working great and the lock up was holding strong.

[TyG8GXP]

Shane with 464hp/590 torque on a 125 shot ran a 12.1 @ almost 118 on stock tires and stock stall. Only had a 1.9x 60", and that's not even spraying out of the hole, he was spraying basically at the 60' mark. If he cut a decent 60' with his new DR's, and even added a stall, 11.8 should be easy. I would think 500rwhp, with a good 60', should net an 11.5.

[hflores3]

Damn Patrick! You weren't kidding when we last spoke (secret heads / cam combo). These are "very impressive" numbers for a NA setup!

I saw the video of the car idling -- it is damn near OEM stock!

What are your opinions of these heads on a supercharged G8?

[Patrick G]

Went back to the dyno today 9/12 to test out some new mufflers and try some speed density tuning. With some dual 2.5" Magnaclone mufflers in place, the MAF replaced by a 4" pipe with a filter, we made 510rwhp/441rwtq with the torque converter locked and 497rwhp/420rwtq with the converter unlocked. The Yank 3200 torque converter is one of their new "High Efficiency" converters and it proved its metal with 97.5% efficiency at higher rpm. Removing the MAF only gained us 2 kPa and we are still pulling a 4kPa vacuum at higher rpm. Looks like we'll gain some more power with a 102mm throttle body next.

The first graph shows rpm and the second graph shows mph. The mph graph shows how the converter multiplies torque at lower rpm.

[G8-4-Speed]

That is just all tooo pretty.......

[98aggie]

Still got some work to do - will get that 102TB for you this week to try and also see if I can get that last piece of the muffler to finish it off the exhaust.

[hulkss]

Went back to the dyno today 9/12 to test out some new mufflers and try some speed density tuning. With some dual 2.5" Magnaclone mufflers in place, the MAF replaced by a 4" pipe with a filter, we made 510rwhp/441rwtq with the torque converter locked

Only 6 hp better than the stock GT mufflers and MAF sensor. Since you had 5-6 kPa vacuum at WOT before, some of the gain came from the MAF delete. I don't feel too bad about the stock mufflers now.

[98aggie]

Only 6 hp better than the stock GT mufflers and MAF sensor. Since you had 5-6 kPa vacuum at WOT before, some of the gain came from the MAF delete. I don't feel too bad about the stock mufflers now.

Actually the stock mufflers dynoed 490rwhp. This has some some aftermarket mufflers I put on last night. These mufflers and open exhaust dynoed both 511rwhp in SD. When the MAF was still installed it was new mufflers were good for about 10-12 gain over the stock. Would have to go get the graph for the exact number - unless Patrick remembers.

[Patrick G]

Stock mufflers dropped HP from 504 down to 490. With the Magnaflow mufflers in the back, the power was back up to where it was with no mufflers. Going Maf-less increased the power to 510rwhp. The Magnaflows drone so Kurt is adding a Magnaflow dual/dual muffler (12468) in the trans tunnel to kill the drone. My goal is to be over 500rwhp with closed exhaust and unlocked converter. We are 3 hp away from hitting that goal. The 102mm TB should get us there.

[Executor999]

The Magnaflows drone so Kurt is adding a Magnaflow dual/dual muffler (12468) in the trans tunnel to kill the drone.

Can you please take some pics of the underside of the car where the dual/dual muffler is installed? And tell us what you think of the three muffler system! Thanks.

[hulkss]

Stock mufflers dropped HP from 504 down to 490.

Oops, I forgot you originally ran the 504 HP with open exhaust.

[98aggie]

Can you please take some pics of the underside of the car where the dual/dual muffler is installed? And tell us what you think of the three muffler system! Thanks.

Should have it done by this weekend when the last muffler comes in on Thursday. Will get pics of the complete setup.

Cars sounds really good at WOT right now - almost and exotic exhaust sound.

[Art708]

I sent him a text right after the dyno run. He must have had his phone off because I got no reply.

Either that or he was speechless... :)

[Tweaky]

My apologies, I misread which before number applied. 120hp is very impressive for cam/heads. I would still like to see a comparison between equivalent setups, with the port shape being the difference (i.e. cams picked to give similar street manners with max power, FAST intakes, similar P&P work, etc.) Not asking, and do not expect that to happen...just saying I would like to see it. I am thinking that the valve angle is going to play a large role for either style, so aftermarket cath. vs. stock style rect. (or vice versa) will never be a fair comparison of overall worth in comparing the port shapes...apples to apples and all that.

I am not doubting the power that can be made with a good set of aftermarket cathedral port heads, especially these AFRs.

Side note, do you think the rectangular ports (MAST or even CNC stockers) would have an advantage (or at least not be too far behind) the AFRs on a 4.065 bore....or at what point do you think the bigger ports are worthwhile? Here I am thinking it might be yet another case of getting the right parts for the combination...would my stock bottom end LS3 benefit more from CNC L92, MAST L92, or AFR 230, given the proper cam choice (atm, leaning towards CNC L92/LS3 due to cost).

Also, where are these heads for sale...I cannot find them anywhere?

[Bonnetts02Vette]

i have never seen really impressive heads/cam numbers out of Mast and their 12 degree LS3 heads. I have seen a lot of impressive head/cam power numbers with cathedral port AFR and Trick Flow 13.5 degree heads. Trick Flow and AFR are industry leaders in aftermarket cathedral heads and i wouldnt buy anything else. a comparison of a trick flow 235 or 245cc head/cam package and a Mast head/cam package on the 4.065 bore and im pretty confident that the Trick Flows heads and cam will out perform the Mast heads and cam. im not taking anything away from any company. Im just more of a cathedral port person anyways since i had an 02 ls1 vette. im selling all of my L92/LS3 heads and stuff.

[G8-4-Speed]

i have never seen really impressive heads/cam numbers out of Mast and their 12 degree LS3 heads. I have seen a lot of impressive head/cam power numbers with cathedral port AFR and Trick Flow 13.5 degree heads. Trick Flow and AFR are industry leaders in aftermarket cathedral heads and i wouldnt buy anything else. a comparison of a trick flow 235 or 245cc head/cam package and a Mast head/cam package on the 4.065 bore and im pretty confident that the Trick Flows heads and cam will out perform the Mast heads and cam. im not taking anything away from any company. Im just more of a cathedral port person anyways since i had an 02 ls1 vette. im selling all of my L92/LS3 heads and stuff.

I think some of the problem your seeing with the L92 ported stuff is from cnc places taking up to another 15 cc's trying to get a few cfm up top most will never use. If you get a smart port job with minimal work on the intake and get the big gains on the exhaust. Then you can install a single pattern cam for better average power with higher peak numbers. L92's go 80% on the intake to exhaust ratio across the board when ported. The only trick is getting the tool to cut valve relief's in the pistons so you can bump the compression and fit a decent size cam in.

[Bonnetts02Vette]

im gonna have to fly cut my pistons with the cam tony mamo is speccing me and the AFR 230 V2 heads massaged by him. Also mamo is porting a fast 102 for me and getting a nick williams 102TB and lots of other N/A goodies. Im shooting for 525+rwhp all motor stock cubes, stock bottom and like 11.5: 1 compression. im not even gonna mess with trying to make that power with LS3 heads, not going to happen on a stock cubes 6.0 or even 6.2 LS3 from what ive seen. Livernois just made a GXP make 505rwhp all motor and they were saying they thought it was maxxed out when i talked to them, and that was the 6spd manual tranny

[G8-4-Speed]

That is definitely going all out so if you can swing it, that sounds like the way to go. The 230 v2 heads should make more power than L92's being they flow the same with less cc's. I was just pointing out how guys go the wrong way with the L92's in the 6.0-6.2's in the quest for more power. You can get more out of the L92's on a motor if your smart about the combination. More flow on the intake adding as few cc's is ok but get your bigger gains from compression and exhaust. If I could throw the cash down, I would probably join you but what I got will get me close enough. Nitrous will make up the difference. Be waiting for your dyno numbers sometime in the near future.

MGM, sounds like your ready to port and valve relief it now. Whats stopin' you? I have a 221 intake lobe with 1.85's and I wont even say how close it is..........I had to move the cam back from 108 ICL to 111 just to get something worth measuring....

[Bonnetts02Vette]

im hpoing to have it all done by late spring of 2011 and ready to go

[shane]

the stock converter lock up can handle quite a bit of power.

one way to lock it on the dyno is use the standard hptuners(not beta) while logging. if your not running beta you can use more features like bidirectional control. with the beta only a few of the features work. hptuners will lock it up solid.
the newest beta i got a few days ago FINALLY again lets u lock the TC on the a6... tested it a few times...

[SS DAVE]

just wondering if there are any updates with the 102 tb etc.

[Patrick G]

just wondering if there are any updates with the 102 tb etc.Still running the stock unported 90mm TB. I'm saving for the 102mm TB.

[SS DAVE]

if you didnt live on the other side of the plannet id lend you mine,this combo has me really itchin for some more power ,will afr [tony] port heads for any customer ,or just people he knows.

[Patrick G]

if you didnt live on the other side of the plannet id lend you mine,this combo has me really itchin for some more power ,will afr [tony] port heads for any customer ,or just people he knows.He's super accommodating. He will port for anyone at any time. Just let him get SEMA done with next week.

The 102 TB is on my to do list, as is a larger cold air intake arrangement.

[SS DAVE]

ok thanks for that ,you should try a duspeed otr it out performs all others over here

[vic2186]

He's super accommodating. He will port for anyone at any time. Just let him get SEMA done with next week.

The 102 TB is on my to do list, as is a larger cold air intake arrangement.

What about the maf pat?

[Patrick G]

What about the maf pat?The only way a larger MAF will effectively work is with a Rotofab style CAI that's been modified. The Vararam does not have enough room before and after the MAF for a 105mm MAF to be accurate.

[GRRRR8]

This is why I am making a 4 in unit from air filter to TB. I am going to wait on TB so I can use the 90mm plate. :)

[vic2186]

So I'm guessing you are going back to roto fab style intake then??

[SS DAVE]

just letting you know that the mk11 duspeed intake has a mounting pad for the w427 maf sensor,its the least restrictive maf on the market.

[98aggie]

Whats a MAF????? Oh wait I don't run them in any of my play cars.

[Devilish34]

This is why I am making a 4 in unit from air filter to TB. I am going to wait on TB so I can use the 90mm plate. :)

a pie plate?

[vic2186]

so 100mm maf user got to get rid of the varam and fabricate a roto fab style intake to work??

[98aggie]

Credit car style MAF require a straight piece of pipe before and after it to get a good reading. If it is to close to the filter or TB there is to much turbulence and it won't read correctly. Because the edistance between the Vararam and TB is so short you won't get a clean MAF reading.

[vic2186]

so a roto fab style intake is beter suited for the larger maf?

[Patrick G]

so a roto fab style intake is beter suited for the larger maf?Most definitely. You need several inches of straight pipe before and after the 105mm MAF for it to read accurately. As 98Aggie mentioned, there is not enough room to get a clean shot of laminar flow across a credit card style MAF with a VARARAM. That's why I'm speed density at the moment. Still running the Vararam.

[vic2186]

Are you going to custom make a cold air intake kit pat??

[vic2186]

Houldnt cost to much ..let's see
Some 100mm alum piping
Couplers
Filter
Done
100-200 worth?

[Patrick G]

Houldnt cost to much ..let's see
Some 100mm alum piping
Couplers
Filter
Done
100-200 worth?Pretty much. I may use some old Roto fab pieces for the duct-work, but you'll need the oversized tubing to make best use of a 102mm TB. This is where some enginuity will come in.

[laserred]

I'm sure Texas Public Works has some spare sewer pipe laying around somewhere....

Patrick, you have any track rentals on the horizon? Do you think with the 102TB and some fine-tuning that 10.90s are possible with what you've got?

[Bonnetts02Vette]

if he can cut a low 1.5x 60 ft and tune it in really good then i think 10.90s are def possible with his setup

[Patrick G]

I'm sure Texas Public Works has some spare sewer pipe laying around somewhere....

Patrick, you have any track rentals on the horizon? Do you think with the 102TB and some fine-tuning that 10.90s are possible with what you've got?All I'd have to do is run a 4000 stall, take a little weight out, take the cats off, and maybe run a bit more cam. 10.90s would be a breeze.

But that's not me (at least not with this car). It's way too nice to make it any more drag-oriented. Basically, I've shown the drag guys how to make the power. It's up to them to dial in their cars to get the 10.90s. I see forced induction in my future. It's the only way I can get over 180 mph in the Texas Mile and keep my pimp daily-driving street manners.

[laserred]

Patrick, I completely agree! I just hit 33, but the days of me living with some nasty idling, fuel-smelling, 14MPG hog are done. The G8 has made me feel like I got in on an Overhaulin' episode, but it's still stock, and has all the creature comforts one could want! I'm almost convinced that if I went with a setup like yours, I'd ask for a slightly smaller cam and maybe even keep DOD (seriously!)

On a side note.... what kind of power do you think you could make with the 230s/LSXR top end and a DOD cam? Maybe 460? 470?

[Bonnetts02Vette]

i didnt only say lowering his 60 ft time i also said tune it in if you would have read the entire sentence i wrote. he will of course gain power and throttle response out of the 102 TB and if he tunes it in more and works on the tune then i bet he could get a 10.9x out of it. and going from a 1.72 60 ft to a low 1.5x would be around a .20 off his 60 ft and a better tune and the 102mm tb with his new upcoming intake should def get him damn close to 10.9x's. if anyone can get .42 off their et to get a 10.99 its pat. i cant wait to see someone take the reigns for the fastest G8 and run 10.6x's on motor. it will happen

or a 4000 stall would easily get him there

plus all motor is way more impressive than any power adder

[G8-4-Speed]

The only way a larger MAF will effectively work is with a Rotofab style CAI that's been modified. The Vararam does not have enough room before and after the MAF for a 105mm MAF to be accurate.

This can straighten the air out for short style intakes w/MAF.

http://www.saxonpc.com/7-inch-black-cell-honeycom7.html

[SS DAVE]

pat are you running the standard diff gears?
man im just going to have to copy this combo hope you dont mind

[Patrick G]

pat are you running the standard diff gears?
man im just going to have to copy this combo hope you dont mindThat's a mixed answer. For the dyno sheets over 500rwhp, I was running the stock 2.92 gears. For my 168.7mph in the standing mile and 11.41 in the quarter mile, I was running the Camaro 3.45 differential. The gears have only been in a week and a half.

[johnbell2]

It's interesting that your T/A put down similar numbers and had an ~14.4mph better trap speed. There are many factors that would come into play of course but which would you say is the major difference?

[Patrick G]

The TA ran 171mph on motor and 183mph with a 150 shot of N2O. It takes well over 600rwhp to break 180mph in an F-body unless you have a tail wind.

[johnbell2]

Thanks, Patrick. Which do you think would work better for your setup from a FI perspective to hit the 180mph mark? Roots or centrifugal blower?

[Patrick G]

Thanks, Patrick. Which do you think would work better for your setup from a FI perspective to hit the 180mph mark? Roots or centrifugal blower?Centrifical has more peak power potential which matters more in the mile than it does in the quarter mile. Roots makes tremendous power at lower rpm which is great for street and quarter mile.

[johnbell2]

Thanks again. Would a variable-vane turbo setup be more ideal if you wanted to cover both ends of the spectrum (street machine / mile runner)? If so, how well would your heads/cam combo work with turbos? What would the efficiency map on FI eventually need to look like for you to "have your cake and eat it, too"?

Sorry to keep pinging you with this but I find it very interesting :)