Cams listed!

[jbradsh1]

Here are the non-DOD cams that I've become aware of with help from others:

CAM DURATION LSA VALVE LIFT

LS3 Hot Cam 219/228 112 .525/.525 (Charlie's choice)

Comp Cams 212/218 115 .558/.563 (a truck cam - good low end and that's about it)

Livernois 224/230 114 .581/.590

Comp Cams 228/240 114 .598/.589 (MANOSTEEL's Cam)

Mike @ New Era has both DOD & non DOD cams that also work well!

These cams are being promoted as good street cams with low lope and good street manners that work well with stock heads with other modifications such as cai, exhaust, tune, etc. They are, in their respective order, milder to wilder. If someone would like to add to this list please let me know and I'll edit your cam into the post. I haven't included any DOD cams (don't have specs on any yet) but these are available as well.

[Blackdevil77]

so your saying they are in order of least power adding to most power? What is the downside to lope? Personally, I love the sound of it but why is it "bad?" Nice thread! Very interesting.

[jbradsh1]

so your saying they are in order of least power adding to most power? What is the downside to lope? Personally, I love the sound of it but why is it "bad?" Nice thread! Very interesting.

Yes, I believe that's correct (except for Mike's @ New Era as I don't have his cam specs ... they are proprietary). Downside to lope ... well, if you want more power then more lope usually comes with that I believe. I don't think I said lope is bad it's just some want the engine to sound stock, even though it's not (more of a sleeper). But some want to hear some real lope which tells the informed listener that the beast is cammed!

[Blackdevil77]

question for Charlie then. Why would you want the LS3 hot cam over the Livernois cam? Livernois claims its a mild cam with little lope and should add some nice power.

[GRRRR8]

question for Charlie then. Why would you want the LS3 hot cam over the Livernois cam? Livernois claims its a mild cam with little lope and should add some nice power.

I want to do an all GM cam swap tp see the gains to see if GM will continue the warranty since its all GM parts. If they say NO, then I can question them on their parts durability and many other things. Most denied warranty claims have to do with non GM parts, so I think there can be a loophole if all GM parts are used.

[GRRRR8]

Here are the non-DOD cams that I've become aware of with help from others:

CAM DURATION LSA VALVE LIFT

LS3 Hot Cam 219/228 112 .525/.525 (Charlie's choice)

Comp Cams 212/218 115 .558/.563

Livernois 224/230 114 .581/.590

Comp Cams 228/240 114 .598/.589 (MANOSTEEL's Cam)

Mike @ New Era has both DOD & non DOD cams that also work well!

These cams are being promoted as good street cams with low lope and good street manners that work well with stock heads with other modifications such as cai, exhaust, tune, etc. They are, in their respective order, milder to wilder. If someone would like to add to this list please let me know and I'll edit your cam into the post. I haven't included any DOD cams (don't have specs on any yet) but these are available as well.

Cam #2 is a truck cam, its RPM range is too low for our cars. It will make a ton of low end torque, but the HP/RPM range will be lacking.

[jbradsh1]

I want to do an all GM cam swap tp see the gains to see if GM will continue the warranty since its all GM parts. If they say NO, then I can question them on their parts durability and many other things. Most denied warranty claims have to do with non GM parts, so I think there can be a loophole if all GM parts are used.

Good idea.

[jbradsh1]

Cam #2 is a truck cam, its RPM range is too low for our cars. It will make a ton of low end torque, but the HP/RPM range will be lacking.

Is that the Comp Cam that you're referring to Charlie?

[GRRRR8]

Is that the Comp Cam that you're referring to Charlie?

Yes.

[jbradsh1]

Yes.

Thanks, I'll update my post.

[Blackdevil77]

I want to do an all GM cam swap tp see the gains to see if GM will continue the warranty since its all GM parts. If they say NO, then I can question them on their parts durability and many other things. Most denied warranty claims have to do with non GM parts, so I think there can be a loophole if all GM parts are used.

That is a good idea! Are you going to ask GM or Pontiac if they will keep the warranty if you do that or your just gonna go ahead and do it and hope they do?

[Crazy Paul]

Cams that show more positive overlap at .050" will usually idle worst. Other factors do affect idle as well, but this gives a rough general picture.

Cam ,then overlap degrees at 050

196 208 116 LS1 01-02 Transam -30
196 201 116 LQ9 04 LS1 -33.5
200 208 ??? L76 (if LSA was 116 it would be) -28
204 211 116 LS2 -24.5
204 218 117.5 02-04 LS6 -24
206 212 112 -15
207 217 116 01 LS6 -20
211 230 121 LS7 -21.5
212 218 115 high lift -15
212 218 114 -13
214 220 115 Thunder Old Man -13
216 220 114 -10
219 228 112 LS3 Hotcam -0.5
220 220 114 -8
220 220 112 -4
220 224 114 -6
220 224 112 -2
222 224 112 -1
224 230 114 -1 Livernois Stage 1
220 220 110 is 0
224 224 112 is 0
224 228 112 +2
228 230 112 +5
228 232 112 +6
232 234 112 +9
230 230 110 +10
238 240 112 +15
242 244 108 +27
248 254 111 +35

((intake duration + exhaust duration) / 4 - LSA) * 2

[Crazy Paul]

Cam Overlap Calculator
xls Format

http://www.hsv-gts.ls2.com/cam%20overlap%20calculator.xls

[p71]

I want to do an all GM cam swap tp see the gains to see if GM will continue the warranty since its all GM parts. If they say NO, then I can question them on their parts durability and many other things. Most denied warranty claims have to do with non GM parts, so I think there can be a loophole if all GM parts are used.

ummm... no. Good as you are you cannot change a cam as easily as a filter... if the pat was not made specifically for your car then they can void the warranty especially if it is a gmpp part which (I imagine did not actually check) doubtless carries the same warranty as most high performance parts... we gaurantee it is not defective. We do not gaurantee it will not break our car. Hell go talk to the SRT-4 boys about the mopar stage 2 and three kits.... they straight up void your warranty... and you have to give mopar your vin to get them.

An analogy... if you use gm brand oil for a cummins in an ecotec you will jack the motor and it will not be covered...

if you get away with it, more power to you... if not... well...

of course I imagine you really do not need a warranty, hmmm charlie?

[Got 8?]

Cam #2 is a truck cam, its RPM range is too low for our cars. It will make a ton of low end torque, but the HP/RPM range will be lacking.

True but w/ the weight of our cars I'd be willing to bet if geared right you will be scared shitless as you try to catch up as we are passing the 1000' mark.

Remember Charlie-son (in best Mr. Miyagi voice) torque gets you moving and HP keeps you moving...

There was a guy at No Problem that all of us were calling B.S. on because he was running high 12's in the 1/4 in an Extended Cab running that exact cam. I personally went to watch while I was over there and w/ the heat ran a 13.1 at 102, the guy runnignhim was chasing him down but he beat him out till they crossed the traps. He out 60 footed the guy and the guy had a much faster trap speed but couldn't run him down in the 1/4 but on the hiway he would have blown him away...

[edmanet]

Well what cam is in the GXP and Camaro motors with the manual ???

[GRRRR8]

True but w/ the weight of our cars I'd be willing to bet if geared right you will be scared shitless as you try to catch up as we are passing the 1000' mark.

Remember Charlie-son (in best Mr. Miyagi voice) torque gets you moving and HP keeps you moving...

There was a guy at No Problem that all of us were calling B.S. on because he was running high 12's in the 1/4 in an Extended Cab running that exact cam. I personally went to watch while I was over there and w/ the heat ran a 13.1 at 102, the guy runnignhim was chasing him down but he beat him out till they crossed the traps. He out 60 footed the guy and the guy had a much faster trap speed but couldn't run him down in the 1/4 but on the hiway he would have blown him away...

True, but it depends on combo. Gearing/trans has a lot to do with how fast it can go. Our gearing and trans is WAY different then a truck, not to mention that in any combo I would build unless it was a truck I would not be using that cam because the RPM range is lower then what we have.

[Crazy Paul]

Well what cam is in the GXP and Camaro motors with the manual ???

Stock LS3 cam.
204/211 .551/.525 on about 117.5*

[Mike@NewEra]

Just a heads up , Manosteel's cam is a New Era NON DOD cam .

[Got 8?]

True, but it depends on combo. Gearing/trans has a lot to do with how fast it can go. Our gearing and trans is WAY different then a truck, not to mention that in any combo I would build unless it was a truck I would not be using that cam because the RPM range is lower then what we have.


Don't underestimate the GM truck engines. They are basically an iron block car engine. My shift points were 6650 w/ a 7000 rpm rev limiter that I constantly hit in the burnout box. If you wanted to rev them more people would only put in ARP rod bolts and spin them higher. Unless you plan on spinnin it up to 8000 to 8500 rpm they will do anything the cars do and the little 4.8's w/ its shorter stroke and the stock bottom end would easily rev to 7-7400 no problem on the shifts. Transmissions were the limiting factor just like the cars.

But to get back on track the cam we speak of was in a 6.0 LQ9 (Caddi Escalade specific motor) and I think he was shifting right around 64-6600. Sixtys were in the 1.7x range I believe. In the 1/4 you have to get it moving as fast as you can and let the other guy try to catch up, on the road it's different...unless you happen to be running from light to light...LOL

Also look at power UNDER the curve...peak numbers don't matter it's the average that counts...

[Crazy Paul]

Also look at power UNDER the curve...peak numbers don't matter it's the average that counts...

Here's the best illustration ever of that.
Guys on another forum were arguing about the best engine to put in a daily driven GTO out of LS6 and LS2. 8 out of 10 were convinced the LS6 was the go because it had 5 more HP.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/LS2chart.jpg

:no1:

[Got 8?]

Here's the best illustration ever of that.
Guys on another forum were arguing about the best engine to put in a daily driven GTO out of LS6 and LS2. 8 out of 10 were convinced the LS6 was the go because it had 5 more HP.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/LS2chart.jpg

:no1:

Precisely !!! :clap:


From almost idle to about 5000 rpm and beyond the LS2 rapes it in the TQ department. In the HP department just look at a snapshot at 3500 rpm and it owns it again by about 25HP...

That's what you're looking for when you pull up to the line. You want that other guy with his "high powered" car to watch your taillights as he tries to catch up to you by 6000rpm but...oh wait, you got there faster and are already in another gear while he's trying to finish off his first one wondering what happened...

[GRRRR8]

Don't underestimate the GM truck engines. They are basically an iron block car engine. My shift points were 6650 w/ a 7000 rpm rev limiter that I constantly hit in the burnout box. If you wanted to rev them more people would only put in ARP rod bolts and spin them higher. Unless you plan on spinnin it up to 8000 to 8500 rpm they will do anything the cars do and the little 4.8's w/ its shorter stroke and the stock bottom end would easily rev to 7-7400 no problem on the shifts. Transmissions were the limiting factor just like the cars.

But to get back on track the cam we speak of was in a 6.0 LQ9 (Caddi Escalade specific motor) and I think he was shifting right around 64-6600. Sixtys were in the 1.7x range I believe. In the 1/4 you have to get it moving as fast as you can and let the other guy try to catch up, on the road it's different...unless you happen to be running from light to light...LOL

Also look at power UNDER the curve...peak numbers don't matter it's the average that counts...

In 2000 I took a short bed Silverado with a 5.3 N/A 100% stock motor into the mid 13s. I know all about these motors. The fact the intake is a big difference between a truck and a LS3 hasnt even been brought up yet.

[Got 8?]

Yeah "Big Ugly" would be run on more cars if it could fit under the hoods, it has been quoted that "...it runs the motor better.." but doesn't produce as much peak power...

[GRRRR8]

In 2000 I switched to a LS6 set up and ecm and wiring to get the truck that fast. Very little gain with bolt on's until the ecm was changed. The tuning that is now available was not in 2000.

[Ktlplxm]

I have the same Cam as Manosteel. It is a very good camshaft above 4000 rpm all the way to 6500 or so. I personally was a little dissapointed in the cam shaft, but not because of performance. I was turned off to it because of the sound. I specifically requested a good power cam, torque and hp, but above all else, I requested very little lope. There is no denying the camshaft in the car. Granted, it does not require a stall change. Has a good idle, and no jumpiness to it, but listening to it allows no deniability. If you want a good smooth cam, with gr8 top end, this is it. However, if you want to be able to play with an m5 and then claim you have just a few things done it, he's going to know one of the few is a long lumpy metal stick.

[MANOFSTEEL69]

I have the same Cam as Manosteel. It is a very good camshaft above 4000 rpm all the way to 6500 or so. I personally was a little dissapointed in the cam shaft, but not because of performance. I was turned off to it because of the sound. I specifically requested a good power cam, torque and hp, but above all else, I requested very little lope. There is no denying the camshaft in the car. Granted, it does not require a stall change. Has a good idle, and no jumpiness to it, but listening to it allows no deniability. If you want a good smooth cam, with gr8 top end, this is it. However, if you want to be able to play with an m5 and then claim you have just a few things done it, he's going to know one of the few is a long lumpy metal stick.

Yea, the sound is a dead give away, but not nearly as noticeable with the stock mufflers on compared to the shitty Kooks, which left no doubt there was a cam, lol.

[jbradsh1]

I have the same Cam as Manosteel. It is a very good camshaft above 4000 rpm all the way to 6500 or so. I personally was a little dissapointed in the cam shaft, but not because of performance. I was turned off to it because of the sound. I specifically requested a good power cam, torque and hp, but above all else, I requested very little lope. There is no denying the camshaft in the car. Granted, it does not require a stall change. Has a good idle, and no jumpiness to it, but listening to it allows no deniability. If you want a good smooth cam, with gr8 top end, this is it. However, if you want to be able to play with an m5 and then claim you have just a few things done it, he's going to know one of the few is a long lumpy metal stick.

Let's see now, you want to beat the M5 and then leave the poor bastard that owns it in confusion as to "how the hell that could be" too! Sounds good, go for it!

[jbradsh1]

By the way, let us know what cam you end up getting and if you're happy with it.

[Last_ResorT_G8]

lol I want that bitch to sound cammed.. sorry I just had to say it

[2008g8gt]

Im a NOOB.. Whats DOD and NON DOD?

ALso... WHat does WOT stand for LOL

[99-LS1-SS]

Im a NOOB.. Whats DOD and NON DOD?

ALso... WHat does WOT stand for LOL


DOD = Displacement on Demand. They don't use that term anymore, now they call it AFM.

AFM = Active Fuel Management

WOT = Wide Open Throttle.

LOL = Laugh Out Loud (lol)

[Cliffy]

I want to do an all GM cam swap tp see the gains to see if GM will continue the warranty since its all GM parts. If they say NO, then I can question them on their parts durability and many other things. Most denied warranty claims have to do with non GM parts, so I think there can be a loophole if all GM parts are used.

Charlie, I will tell you that most GM dealers will not honor the warranty. Ours included, and I'm a gear head. Thats the short answer. Here's the deal. The cam is warranted by GM performance parts for materials and craftsmanship. The only thing that "voids" a warranty is if the car has a salvage and branded title. What we do to our cars cannot void our warranty, that is according to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. However, according to GM's policy and procedures manual, if damage to the veh is caused by something other than the intended design as built of the vehicle, GM is not obligated to cover the repair. The power train has been durability tested to perform in it's intended states. A modification, even using GM parts will fall into this category. Now you need to become familiar with the service manager and service advisor also as somethimes we can turn a blind eye. I have two customers with CTS-Vs running around(1 '07 and 1 '04) with cams i installed at home along with CAI and exhaust, the 07 has a tune from Livernosie. I still sneak in things like a misc. malfunction indicator light. My boss gives me some greif but we work around it. sorry for the thread jack.