Surge tank kit?

[wreckwriter]

Latest issue of GM High Tech Performance shows a G8 surge tank kit from Vengeance Racing. No price. Vengeance's site shows nothing and they have yet to respond to my email. Anyone know anything?

[99-LS1-SS]

Sorry for the dumb question but, what is the surge tank's function?

[Devilish34]

Sorry for the dumb question but, what is the surge tank's function?

I would assume fuel surge....Basically a fuel reservoir

[wreckwriter]

Kinda like the fuel bucket within the fuel tank but external. Stock pump keeps surge tank full, other pumps feed engine from surge tank. I think..........

[99-LS1-SS]

Kinda like the fuel bucket within the fuel tank but external. Stock pump keeps surge tank full, other pumps feed engine from surge tank. I think..........

Is it like a small tank in the engine bay? If so that's what my brother's Camaro had and he kept racing fuel in it. When the nitrous was armed it switched over to the auxiliary tank.

[wreckwriter]

Is it like a small tank in the engine bay? If so that's what my brother's Camaro had and he kept racing fuel in it. When the nitrous was armed it switched over to the auxiliary tank.

I think this one goes in the spare well but basically similar I think.

[Devilish34]

Kinda like the fuel bucket within the fuel tank but external. Stock pump keeps surge tank full, other pumps feed engine from surge tank. I think..........

this

[GeorgeInNePa]

The stock fuel pump and tank keep the surge tank supplied with fuel. The surge tank fuel pumps keeps the injectors supplied with fuel.

The stock pump can't keep up with the injectors, but the supply of fuel in the surge tank is more than enough to keep the aftermarket fuel pumps going, since you don't go WOT 100% of the time. You would run a bigger line from the ST to the rail.

[99-LS1-SS]

Are you opposed to an after market fuel system? I think the bugs are worked out of my fuel system. So far I've had no fuel starving issues. I have larger injectors and mine uses the stock metal line.

[wreckwriter]

I'm opposed to the cost. Surge MIGHT be cheaper.

[99-LS1-SS]

I understand that. Hopefully it will work out for you.

[wreckwriter]

I understand that. Hopefully it will work out for you.

Pretty much academic right now due to cage rule.

[Devilish34]

I'm opposed to the cost. Surge MIGHT be cheaper.

Saw a kit for $400 but not G8 specific.

[wreckwriter]

These guys never answered my email.

[GeorgeInNePa]

They post a lot on ls1tech.

You might pm one of them over there.

[wreckwriter]

They post a lot on ls1tech.

You might pm one of them over there.

Thanks. Did so and will report any further info I get.

[todds87ss]

Tom, I'm also interested in the volume of the tank.
subscribing.

[VegasNate]

I called them and got no answer or voicemail.

[ulakovic22]

What's wrong with Lonnie's setup? Cost? All your worrying and searching and time and effort have to count for something, right?

[wreckwriter]

What's wrong with Lonnie's setup? Cost? All your worrying and searching and time and effort have to count for something, right?

Cost and ease of install.

[VegasNate]

I got a response from Ron @ Vengeance Racing over on LS1tech:

Nathan,

If you could forward me a link I will be happy to post up all of the info I can...

Cost is going to be 1895.00 and includes everything pictured..

Vengeance Racing 4 Gallon Fuel Cell- Black Powder Coat-
Fuel Labs Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
Fuel Pressure Gauge for Regulator
TWIN Bosch 044 Fuel Pumps
Billet Fuel Rails for your application
Bulkheads for main tank
All required AN Fittings/Connectors- Black Ano Tuff
30ft Pro Lite 350 Braided Line


This system will support 1200HP

Let me know if you have any other questions sir.

Ron

[wreckwriter]

So much for the cost savings. Thanks Nate!

[todds87ss]

Thanks, Nate. A little rich for occasional track use...

[Tempest2000]

better off with aden's setup...

[Ktlplxm]

My set-up is Lonnies set-up, just ran my way lol. That system is built by someone else as well, I just cannot remember who. Vengeance seldom builds anything of their own. they install an existing piece and call it their own. I'll see if I can find who actually made that kit.

[Ktlplxm]

One question though... in the description it says "bulkhead fittings for main tank", why would you need bulkheads for the main tank? Are they actually for the surgetank, and if it is for the surge tank, why not weld the fittings in? The end user would have less issues with welded fittings than they would with bulkheads

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

One question though... in the description it says "bulkhead fittings for main tank", why would you need bulkheads for the main tank? Are they actually for the surgetank, and if it is for the surge tank, why not weld the fittings in? The end user would have less issues with welded fittings than they would with bulkheads

Aden the bulkhead fittings will allow attachment of the fuel lines to sump from the main tank and into the surge tank. If they ae using bulkhead fittings in this way then your entire stock fuel pump, and lines will not be used in any way whatesoever. I plan to run mine that way with an external fuel pump. Just like you would with a fuel cell.

[Ktlplxm]

But in a surge system you do use all of the stock lines as well as the pump. If you sump the main tank then you arent utilizing a "surge tank" system, you're just wasting time and parts. The entire point in using a surge tank is so you do not have to touch the rear pump, tank, or lines. You just let the factory system feed the surge tank, then it acts on its own.

[ulakovic22]

Say your question, but don't know if it's been answered. You need to have bulkhead fittings on your main tank because the surge tank needs to have a return to the main tank. 98% of the time you won't need your surge tank so your stock pump will fill it up and that gas will need to go back to the main tank.

Edit: Lonnie's is the way to go. Only cheaper way to do it would be a Boush pump instead of Walbro with a boost-a-pump. Even then you will run out if you really start pushing it.

Edit x2: I really can't spell, lol.

[Ktlplxm]

If u run the return to the tank it will need to dropped to install the fittings in a good spot, and if the owner has gone through that much trouble, in tanks could've been just as easy. To each their own I guess lol

[ulakovic22]

I agree, but the nice thing about a surge tank is that if it's done right you keep OEM reliability and you are able to use all factory lines. A dual pump setup will require new lines, regulator relocation, pumps, etc. Lonnie does make it really easy though with a plug and play setup that I believe still uses a factory style bucket so you have excellent reliability as well. Probably why it costs so much.

[Ktlplxm]

Why does everyone keep saying that Lonnie's system cost so much? It isn't that high. Its possible to buy just the pump assembly and then purchase whatever quality lines and regulator you desire.

[ulakovic22]

I haven't the need to check with him but I'm guessing his system is around $1,600 or so, is that right? I think that's what his Vette systems go for. I did the twin kit in my T/A for about $250, but for people that don't want to, know how to or are scared to do it's a lot of money. You can get a set of heads ported and hardware for that much.

Edit: I just looked it up. $800 for the pumps and modified bucket or $1950 for everything. That seems a little much to me honestly. Lonnie makes great quality stuff and his kit will easily support 1,000 rwhp, but I don't think I'll even fork over that much.

[Ktlplxm]

I personally believe, and I'll probably get blasted at some point over this, that it is a very good deal. Fuel systems are an integral part of the cars as we all know. It is inevitable that all of us making power will have to have a fuel upgrade. Unfortunately these vehicles will have neither an easy or inexpensive solution. $800 itself is a great price for the dual pumps and wiring systems that come with them. The $1950 system is utilizing top of the line lines fittings and equipment to cover the designer's butt. Can the system be built with lesser quality materials for less? Sure. The end user has the option of running a high pressure pushlock hose and less expensive fittings, steel braided rubber lines and fittings, as well as TFE lines and fittings. Different manufacture's rails, as well as fuel pressure regulators (and filters if one decides to use them) can change the price of a kit by as much 500-600. Pity these cars arent as easy to upgrade as the F-bodies, but then again, the average G8 being modded now is way more powerful and reliable. I hope everyone else finds a fuel cure for their cars, and will love to see what price is acceptable to everyone. I guess I just dont see where spending another $1200- $1900 is a big deal when those people needing this amount of fuel delivery have all spent close to $10K-$15K

[wreckwriter]

I guess I just dont see where spending another $1200- $1900 is a big deal when those people needing this amount of fuel delivery have all spent close to $10K-$15K

That's exactly why its a big deal; wads have been shot :)

[vic2186]

pssss..i heard switching our pump for a 2010CTSV pump will make it handle some 750hp..i need to get more info but i know you can join or just swap the pump and rerun some lines..400bucks tops in parts...sounds good huh..and aden dont kill me for this lol

[Ktlplxm]

But we all knew going in that it was gonna require more fuel at a point. I guess in my way of thinking, its like buying the best suspension you can, buying the best wheels, then not buying the slicks because of cost... Cars are a money pit and this is just another drop in the barrell

[Ktlplxm]

pssss..i heard switching our pump for a 2010CTSV pump will make it handle some 750hp..i need to get more info but i know you can join or just swap the pump and rerun some lines..400bucks tops in parts...sounds good huh..and aden dont kill me for this lol

Why would I? lol Thats not handling that much more power than we already have. After around 600whp the lines themselves become an issue to address too. you can make power with a 3/8 line but its easier to do with a 1/2. But isn't the CTS-V pump a voltage based arrangement? Similar to the Camaro system?

[wreckwriter]

But we all knew going in that it was gonna require more fuel at a point. I guess in my way of thinking, its like buying the best suspension you can, buying the best wheels, then not buying the slicks because of cost... Cars are a money pit and this is just another drop in the barrell

No doubt true but that doesn't stop the dream of an inexpensive solution.

[Devilish34]

But we all knew going in that it was gonna require more fuel at a point. I guess in my way of thinking, its like buying the best suspension you can, buying the best wheels, then not buying the slicks because of cost... Cars are a money pit and this is just another drop in the barrell

lol Just like any hobby it's a hole you throw money into...Well unless your hobby is collecting money

[ulakovic22]

Until I get there I don't know if I would run Lonnie's or get a custom surge tank. I would probably lean towards Lonnie's and run a Hobbs switch for the second pump only because it will be quieter and I daily my G8 so I don't want to be making stops for gas all the time to make sure I don't burn up a pump.

[norm8332]

Pretty soon I'm going to rig another stock pump and run 1 on each bank. I'll make it fit including the bucket.

Yeah Right.:facepalm:

[VegasNate]

I already obtained a second stock fuel pump to send to Lonnie. I'll probably go through with sending it in at the end of this month. I'll post up my results of the install when its done.

[Ktlplxm]

Until I get there I don't know if I would run Lonnie's or get a custom surge tank. I would probably lean towards Lonnie's and run a Hobbs switch for the second pump only because it will be quieter and I daily my G8 so I don't want to be making stops for gas all the time to make sure I don't burn up a pump.


thats how Lonnies is wired. You have the Hobb's switch to turn on the second pump or you can run both simultaneously. With the way he has his wiring harness done you can switch which pump you want to use as the primary pump anytime you want; it helps with pump life as well. The noise level is about the same regardless of single or dual pumps operating, the system is so quiet you can barely hear any difference. I ran my tank to empty quite a few times while testing without ever having a volume issue or worrying about the fuel heating up. I personally love Lonnies system. Installation is straight forward. The tank itself is easy to drop if you have access to a lift. The only time consuming part of it is deciding on where you want to run the feed and return lines (if you dont use the factory line for either). I'd recommend it to all. I've ordered another for yet another customer and should be doing the install on his in two weeks. Best of luck to all

[ulakovic22]

thats how Lonnies is wired. You have the Hobb's switch to turn on the second pump or you can run both simultaneously. With the way he has his wiring harness done you can switch which pump you want to use as the primary pump anytime you want; it helps with pump life as well. The noise level is about the same regardless of single or dual pumps operating, the system is so quiet you can barely hear any difference. I ran my tank to empty quite a few times while testing without ever having a volume issue or worrying about the fuel heating up. I personally love Lonnies system. Installation is straight forward. The tank itself is easy to drop if you have access to a lift. The only time consuming part of it is deciding on where you want to run the feed and return lines (if you dont use the factory line for either). I'd recommend it to all. I've ordered another for yet another customer and should be doing the install on his in two weeks. Best of luck to all

I was talking about the noise level compared to a surge tank with a MagnaFuel or Fuel Lab pump. The dual pumps on my T/A are intank and completely quiet like you say. I agree Lonnie makes OEM quality stuff, just surprised me when I saw the $2,000 price tag versus his Vette/F-Body kits. Having a bolt on solution for whatever modifications we do is underrated. Personally I'm tired of having to custom make everything so even though it gives me a little sticker shock, I'll probably still buy it when the time comes.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

But in a surge system you do use all of the stock lines as well as the pump. If you sump the main tank then you arent utilizing a "surge tank" system, you're just wasting time and parts. The entire point in using a surge tank is so you do not have to touch the rear pump, tank, or lines. You just let the factory system feed the surge tank, then it acts on its own.


I am well aware of how a surge tank system operates Aden. lol. However you asked what those type of fittings would most likely be used for and I answered. Maybe I read a little too much into detail of your post but you stated fittings plural. That made me think that it is not just a single bulkhead like what would be required to route the return line back into the tank. The first thing I think of when bulkhead fittings come to mind are sumped fuel cells and routing fuel lines directly from tank to an external pump. Another idea would be to call the manufacturer up and ask them directly what those fittings are for.

[Ktlplxm]

I am well aware of how a surge tank system operates Aden. lol. However you asked what those type of fittings would most likely be used for and I answered. Maybe I read a little too much into detail of your post but you stated fittings plural. That made me think that it is not just a single bulkhead like what would be required to route the return line back into the tank. The first thing I think of when bulkhead fittings come to mind are sumped fuel cells and routing fuel lines directly from tank to an external pump. Another idea would be to call the manufacturer up and ask them directly what those fittings are for.

I know you know I know that you know what it is lol. I was just making the comment because I thought some people may be under the assumption that the surge tank , as described, was just a simple plug and play installation when it isnt.