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WickedMom
01-05-2010, 08:32 AM
#10-03-09-001: Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Boom/Moan Noise at Highway Speeds on Smooth Roads (Replace Engine Mounts, Propshaft, Balance Wheel/Tire Assemblies or Correct Brake Rotor Runout) - (Jan 4, 2010)


Subject: Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Boom/Moan Noise at Highway Speeds on Smooth Roads (Replace Engine Mounts, Propshaft, Balance Wheel and Tire Assemblies or Correct Brake Rotor Runout)


Models: 2008-2009 Pontiac G8



Attention: It is requested that you become familiar with all the various concerns before attempting diagnosis or repair. In ALL cases, a propshaft is the last component replacement that should be attempted. Replacement propshafts are only available on an exchange basis directly through GM Brand Quality (except 2008 MY 3.6L V6 models). If it is determined that a propshaft replacement is required, you will be expected to furnish written data to GM Brand Quality validating diagnostics of the other possible components.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Condition
Some customers may comment on shaking/vibration in the steering wheel/driver seat and/or a boom/moan noise while driving at highway speeds (typically between 55-70 mph (88-112 km/h) on smooth roads.

Steering Wheel Vibration
Vibrations in the steering wheel may also be accompanied by vibration in the body and/or seat but may be more obvious to the driver due to contact with the steering wheel. When the steering wheel is held loosely on smooth roads, driving straight ahead, slight steering wheel oscillation may be visible.

Boom/Moan Noise
A "boom" or "moan" noise is a very low frequency sound that phases in and out. The customer may describe the noise as a loud continuous bass note produced by the radio that comes and goes. This type of noise may be mistaken for the feeling of objectionable pressure in the passenger compartment. Additionally, noises of this frequency range may make hearing other sounds, such as normal conversation, seem distorted. This noise may accompany vibration felt in the body, seat or steering wheel.

Cause
The vehicle may be sensitive to the balance of various rotating mass assemblies. This may include the following possible sources:

• Wheel and Tire Assembly Balance and Road Force Variation

- Tire and Wheel Diagnosis

- Measuring Wheel Runout and Assembly Radial Force Variation

• Excessive Brake Rotor Runout or Imbalance

• Active Fuel Management (AFM)

• Propshaft Runout or Imbalance

Correction
Road Testing
In order to provide the best diagnostic information, a road test with an EVA (Electronic Vibration Analyzer) or equivalent should be conducted. Convenient locations for the magnetic transducer are the steering column, the driver front seat track and the trunk floor pan over the rear of the propshaft. You should record your readings in each location between 50-70 mph (80-112 km/h). Each of the bold section headings above contain additional information and diagnostic tips.

Important: Be sure tire pressure is set to the placard values.

The following sections offers possible vibration sources (in order of the least intrusive service procedure), how to identify them and the proper corrections for each. The standardized GM Vibration Analysis Worksheet is included at the end of this bulletin to aid you in recording pertinent data.

• Road test the vehicle using the Electronic Vibration Analyzer (EVA) essential tool while driving for a sufficient distance on a known, smooth road surface to duplicate the condition. Determine if the vehicle is sensitive to brake apply. If the brakes are applied lightly and the pulsation felt in the steering wheel increases, refer to the Brakes section of SI that deals with brake-induced pulsation.


• Next, record the Hertz (Hz) reading as displayed by the EVA onto the tire data worksheet found at the end of this bulletin. This should be done after a tire break-in period of at least 10 miles (16 km) at 45 mph (72 km/h) or greater, in order to eliminate any possible tire flat-spotting. This reading confirms what the vehicle vibration frequency is prior to vehicle service and documents the amount of improvement occurring as the result of the various steps taken to repair.


• If flat-spotting is the cause, provide the explanation that this has occurred due to the vehicle being parked for long periods of time and that the nature of the tire is to take a set. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 03-03-10-007E: Information on Tire/Wheel Characteristics (Vibration, Balance, Shake, Flat Spotting) of GM Original Equipment Tires.


Wheel and Tire Assembly Balance & Road Force Variation
•Visually inspect the tires and the wheels. Inspect for evidence of the following conditions and correct as necessary:
• Missing balance weights

• Bent rim flange

• Irregular tire wear

• Incomplete bead seating

• Tire irregularities (including pressure settings)

• Mud/ice build-up in wheel

• Stones in the tire tread

• Remove any aftermarket wheels and/or tires and restore vehicle to original condition prior to diagnosing a smooth road shake condition

• Ensure wheels are centered on the hub by loosening all wheel nuts and hand tightening all nuts first by hand while shaking the wheel, then torque to specifications using a torque wrench, NOT a torque stick

•If corrections to any items were made, road test the vehicle to determine if the vehicle still exhibits the smooth road shake conditions.
If the smooth road shake/vibration still exists, continue below to diagnose wheel and tire concerns,

Tire and Wheel Diagnosis
•If the road test indicates a shake/vibration exists, check the imbalance of each tire/wheel assembly on a known, calibrated, off-car dynamic balancer. If any assembly calls for more than ¼ ounce on either rim flange, remove all balance weights and rebalance to as close to zero as possible. If you can see the vibration (along with feeling it) in the steering wheel (driving straight without your hands on the wheel), it is very likely to be a tire/wheel first order (one pulse per revolution) disturbance. First order disturbances may be caused by imbalance as well as non-uniformities in tires, wheels or hubs. This first order frequency is too low for a human to hear, but if the amplitude is high enough, it can be seen.
Important: Some GM dealers may have a Hunter GSP9700 Road Force Balancer or a Coats XR1850 Runout Balancer. If a Hunter GSP9700 machine is available, it may also be used to measure the radial force variation of the tire/wheel assembly. A guideline here is 18 lbs (8 kg) or less (12 lbs (5 kg) or less are preferable for sensitive customers).

•After confirming the wheel balance; install wheel and tire assembly on the vehicle per service procedures with the specified tightening process. If any changes were made, road test the vehicle again.
If the smooth road shake/vibration still exists, continue below to measure wheel runout and assembly radial force variation.

Measuring Wheel Runout and Assembly Radial Force Variation
Important: The completed worksheet at the end of this bulletin must be attached to the hard copy of the repair order.



•Measure radial force variation and radial runout.
• If a road force/balancing machine is used, record radial force variation (RFV) on the worksheet at the end of this bulletin. If one or more of the tire/wheel assemblies read more than 18 lbs (8 kg), match mount the tire to the wheel to get below 18 lbs (8 kg). Readings of 12 lbs (5 kg) or less are preferable for sensitive customers. If the machine is not available and the EVA data suggests there is an issue, swap the tire and wheel assemblies from the front to the back. Re-check on the EVA and if the problem still exists, test another vehicle to find tires that do not exhibit the same frequency and swap those tires onto the subject vehicle.

• If a runout/balancing machine is used, record radial runout of the tire/wheel assemblies on the worksheet at the end of this bulletin. If one or more of the tire/wheel assemblies are more than.040 in (0.10 cm), match mount the tire to the wheel to get below.040 in (0.10 cm). Readings of.030 in (0.08 cm) or less are preferable for sensitive customers.

• If the RFV or runout cannot be reduced to an acceptable level, replace the affected tire(s) under the guidelines of the GM Tire Warranty.

•Place tires with lowest RFV on the front of the vehicle.
•Road test the vehicle to determine if the shake/vibration has been eliminated.
Brake Rotor Runout
If the brake pedal does not pulsate objectionably, but the corrections above did not alleviate the condition, measure the radial runout of the brake rotors to see if one (or more) have elevated runout measurements. If the lateral run out (LRO) measurement is 0.050 mm (0.002 in) or LESS, no correction is necessary. If this measurement is greater, refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 00-05-22-002L: Disc Brake Warranty Service and Procedures for additional information on correcting rotor runout conditions.

Active Fuel Management (AFM) -- G8 GT Only (6.0L V8)
Important: Active Fuel Management is only present on G8 GT models.

The engine in the G8 GT is an 8-cylinder unit that is capable of deactivating 4-cylinders to conserve fuel during periods of reduced power requirement. Some customers may be sensitive to the change in engine frequency (both in feel and exhaust tone) when Active Fuel Management is engaged. In order to minimize this sensation, 2009 Pontiac G8 GT models built with VIN 9L3 (2009.5 M Y) have revised engine mounts that reduce the transmitted vibration from the engine. Vehicles equipped with these revised mounts should not be a concern.

During a road test (with or without the customer), this concern may be isolated by disabling Active Fuel Management. If the customer is available, it may be of value to let the customer drive the vehicle. In order to disable this feature, you will engage 6th gear manually by performing the following steps:

•Shift the transmission to "D" (1).
•Accelerate on a suitable road to a sustainable 55-70 mph (88-112 km/h).
•Adjust your speed until the objectionable vibration is felt.
•Move the shifter to the manual shift gate (2). This will engage the "sport shift" mode and automatically initiate a downshift to 5th gear if the vehicle is in top gear.




•Move the shift lever forward to engage manual transmission control (3). The vehicle DIC will display "Active Select On".




•Push the lever forward to engage 6th gear. The vehicle DIC will display a "6".




•The vehicle will now remain in 6th gear and AFM will be disabled. Try to reproduce the customer complaint varying your speed within the customer specified speed range. Try coasting, holding speed and slight acceleration as well. By shifting the transmission selector back to "automatic" and repeating the above steps you should be able to tell if AFM is contributing to the objectionable vibration.
If AFM is decided to be the source of the vibration, the engine mounts should be replaced with the revised mounts used in the 2009.5 V8 models using the following procedure.

Notice: The replacement engine mounts are designed to absorb more vibration and further isolate the engine from the passenger compartment. While this procedure WILL very noticeably reduce the amount of engine vibration felt through the steering wheel, it does not eliminate the source. When Active Fuel Management is engaged, the 8-cylinder engine operates on 4-cylinders, changing the operating balance of the motor and likewise the "feel" of the powertrain. This is a normal operating characteristic.

Engine Mount Replacement (Both)
•Open the hood and install fender covers.
•Open the trunk and disconnect the battery.
•Remove the engine acoustic cover.
•Remove the right side exhaust manifold-to-forward catalytic convertor bolts (from above using a long extension).
•Raise and properly support the vehicle.
•Disconnect the right side O2 sensor electrical connector.
•Remove the right side forward catalytic convertor-to-intermediate pipe nuts.
•Remove the right side forward catalytic convertor from the vehicle.
•Remove the heat shield attaching nuts from the engine starter.
•Remove the heat shield from the engine starter.
•Disconnect the electrical leads from the starter.
•Remove the engine starter attaching bolts and remove the starter.
•Remove the engine mount to subframe nuts (both sides).
•Remove both side engine motor mount top attaching nuts,
•Position and support the motor with a screw jack and appropriate wood block.
•Remove the motor mount bracket bolts on both engine mounts.
•Raise the engine in small increments to obtain clearance in order to remove the left side engine mount bracket.
•Reposition the right engine mount bracket up the oil level indicator tube.
•Remove both engine mounts and heat shields from the vehicle.
•Transfer the engine mount heat shields to the replacement engine mounts.
•Install both engine mounts and heat shields to the vehicle.
•Reposition the right engine mount bracket down the oil level indicator tube.
•Reposition the left side engine mount bracket and lower the engine onto the revised mounts.
•Install the engine mount bracket bolts to both engine mounts.
•Install both side engine motor mount top attaching nuts.
•Install the engine mount-to-subframe nuts (both sides).
•Install the engine starter and attaching bolts.
•Connect the electrical leads to the starter.
•Install the heat shield nuts to the engine starter.
•Install the right side forward catalytic convertor to the vehicle.
•Install the right side forward catalytic convertor-to-intermediate pipe nuts.
•Connect the right side O2 sensor electrical connector.
•Remove the screw jack under the engine and lower the vehicle.
•Install the right side exhaust manifold-to-forward catalytic convertor bolts (from above with a long extension).
•Install the engine acoustic cover.
•Connect the battery and close trunk.
•Remove the fender covers and close the hood.
Propeller Shaft Imbalance
Propeller shaft imbalance can be identified by the use of the EVA diagnostic tool. This type of vibration may be felt and/or heard. Compared with tire vibrations, this type of vibration is much higher in frequency and can often be felt more than seen in the steering wheel. However, steering wheel oscillation is still possible. The creation of boom or moan is not typically present with the other possible vibration sources.

If you can start to hear the vibration as a low boom noise (in addition to feeling it), but cannot see it, it likely has a first order (one pulse per propshaft revolution) driveline vibration. Driveline first order vibrations are high enough in frequency that most humans can start to hear them at highway speeds, but are too high to be able to be easily seen. These issues can be caused by driveline imbalance or misalignment. If the vehicle exhibits a low boom and the booming pulses in-and-out on a regular basis (like a throbbing), these are indications of driveline vibration.

EVA Transducer Locations
It may be preferred to start with the EVA magnetic transducer attached to the driver seat frame or the steering column tilt/telescope lever. At these locations, any tire vibrations should be sensed, as well as propshaft vibration, to help identify the proper source. If propshaft vibration is detected, it will center around the 46 HZ frequency range. This frequency may change with road speed from the 45-55 HZ range. However, there is a tendency in this vehicle structure to resonate centered at 46 HZ with amplitude increasing or decreasing as you drive into the target speed range of 55-70 mph (88-112 km/h). If propshaft vibration is detected, or any boom noise is part of the customer concern, move the sensor location to the trunk floorpan above the rear of the propshaft for secondary testing.

Tip
You can utilize the rear seat trunk pass-through to easily locate the transducer to the trunk floor.

There is often some very small amount of vibration associated with nearly any spinning mass. Typically, EVA readings of 0.07g or lower indicate a value that is acceptable to the customer and do not necessarily identify a concern with this component.

If a higher value is detected and determined to be first order propshaft vibration, replace the propshaft. Please refer to the instructions under the Parts Information section below for propshaft exchange guidelines. Please refer to SI for Propshaft Replacement instructions.

Warning: When replacing the propshaft, DO NOT remove or torque the propshaft to rubber coupler bolts. Exchanged propshafts will come with the rubber couplers installed and torqued to specification.

Note: Replacement propshafts are only available on an exchange basis directly through GM Brand Quality (except for 2008 MY V6 equipped vehicles). If it is determined that a propshaft replacement is required, you will be expected to furnish written data to GM Brand Quality validating diagnostics of the other possible components.

Parts Information
Part Number
Description
Qty

92227443
Engine Mounts
2


Propshaft Exchange
To qualify for a propshaft exchange, you must furnish your tire radial force variation numbers, along with the EVA numbers, collected during road testing as well as any vibration repair history on the vehicle. GM Brand Quality will request this information and make a determination on whether an exchange propshaft is required.

If it is determined that a replacement propshaft is required, please contact:

Contact
Phone Number
E-mail



Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

E0901
Vibration Diagnosis
0.8 hr

Add
Measure Tire Wheel Asm., Runout and Re-Balance
1.3 hrs

Add
Replace Tire and/or Wheel -- Each
0.2 hr

J7551
Engine Motor Mounts (Both)
1.5 hr

F1280
Propeller Shaft Replacement
0.9 hr

Vibration Analysis Worksheet
When diagnosing vibration concerns, use the following worksheet in conjunction with the appropriate Vibration Analysis-Road testing procedure in the Vibration Correction sub-section in SI. FILL OUT ONLY THE APPLICABLE PORTION OF THE WORKSHEET THAT APPLIES TO THE VIBRATION / NOISE.

Refer to the appropriate section of SI for specifications and repair procedures that are related to the vibration concern.

Vibration Analysis Worksheet

To:

Dealer:

Fax Number:



VIN__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __





Procedure Performed By:

Date:

Model:

Year: Gear Ratio:

Odometer:

VIN __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

TAC Case #, if applicable:

Conditions During Road Test Procedures
As condition occurs: Engine RPM_____________

Vehicle Speed__________________

Vibration/Noise detected during the following road test procedures:

Engine RPM_______________ Vehicle Speed_______________

Slow Acceleration Test: Yes__________ No__________

Neutral Coast-Down Test: Yes__________ No__________

Downshift Test: Yes__________ No__________

Neutral Run-Up Test: Yes__________ No__________

Brake Torque Test: Yes__________ No__________

Steering Input Test: Yes__________ No__________

Standing Start Acceleration (Launch Shudder) Test: Yes__________ No__________

Vibration/Noise Eliminated with TCC Commanded On: Yes__________ No__________

Vibration/Noise Eliminated with TCC Commanded Off: Yes__________ No__________

Vibration/Noise Duplicated on Hoist: Yes__________ No__________

When using the EVA, always take a snapshot. This will help determine which vibration shows up the most.

Important: Vibrate software can also be used to assist in vibration diagnosis. Refer to Vibrate Software Description and Operation in SI.

EVA Readings
Refer to Electronic Vibration Analyzer (EVA) Description and Operation in SI for more detailed information.

Important: As a reminder, place the EVA sensor where the vibration is mostly felt. Ensure the word "UP" on the sensor is physically facing up. The typical areas are the seat track, the steering column or the instrument panel. Locating the EVA sensor on additional area (i.e. the right fender, left fender, right quarter panel, left quarter panel, rear seat track, etc.) may also assist in determining the component causing the vibration/noise. The key is to look for the same Hz reading with the greatest amplitude G readings.



FILL OUT ONLY THE APPLICABLE PORTION OF THE WORKSHEET THAT APPLIES TO THE VIBRATION/NOISE:



Sensor at Steering Column:

1st Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________

2nd Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________



Sensor at Roof:

1st Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________

2nd Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________



Sensor at Passenger Seat Rail:

1st Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________

2nd Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________



Sensor at Pinion Nose (Rear Wheel Drive):

1st Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________

2nd Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________



Sensor at Pinion Nose Front Axle (Four Wheel Drive):

1st Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________

2nd Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________



Sensor at Crossmember/Cradle (Front Wheel Drive):

1st Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________

2nd Line MPH/KPH:__________ HZ:__________ Gs:__________

Driveshaft Runout:

Is round out within specification? Yes__________ No__________

Initial: Frt:__________ Center:__________ Rear:__________ Stub Shaft:__________

Current: Frt:__________ Center:__________ Rear:__________ Stub Shaft:__________

Pinion Flange Runout Reading:__________

Has a system balance been attempted: Yes__________ No__________ (If no, perform a System Balance)

Were the drums removed to system balance? Yes__________ No__________

Initial: HZ__________ Gs__________

Current: HZ__________ Gs__________

Hose clamps added: Yes__________ No__________

Prop shaft indexed? Yes__________ No__________

If a System Balance has been attempted but the vibration is still present or system balance was not able to be achieved, check the ring gear backlash in eight different spots on the ring gear. Note that excessive ring gear runout may result in a first order tire speed or first order prop shaft speed concern.

Backlash in eight equal spots on the ring gear (readings should not vary more than 0.002 in (0.050 mm)):

1__________ 2__________ 3__________ 4__________ 5__________ 6__________ 7__________ 8__________

Does the vehicle have any of the following components attached?

Pinion damper: Yes__________ No__________

Pinion flange damper: Yes__________ No__________

Exhaust damper: Yes__________ No__________

Initial: Front angle:__________ Center Angle:__________ Rear Angle:__________

Current: Front angle:__________ Center Angle:__________ Rear Angle:__________

Were shims added to the following?

Transmission/transfer case mount: Yes__________ No__________

Pinion nose (rear springs): Yes__________ No__________

Center Support Mount: Yes__________ No__________

Tire Size and Brand:_____________________________________

Wheel/Tire Runouts on vehicle (max. 0.050 in (1.27 mm))

Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 00-03-10-006D for tire radial force variation.

Right rear: Inner lateral:__________ Center radial:__________

Left rear: Inner lateral:__________ Center radial:__________

Right front: Inner lateral:__________ Center radial:__________

Left front: Inner lateral:__________ Center radial:__________

Mounting surface runouts (max. 0.005 in (0.127 mm))

Flange, right rear:__________ Hub, right front:__________

Flange, left rear:__________ Hub, left front:__________

Wheel stud runouts (max. 0.008 in (0.203 mm))

Flange, right rear:__________ Hub, right front:__________

Flange, left rear:__________ Hub, left front:__________











GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

MaxPower
01-05-2010, 08:58 AM
My steering wheel vibration "seems" to have been the Goodyear RSA's... They replaced them with 4 new Michelin's (at the same time they replaced the LCA's as well, and turned the rotors).

The vibration seems to have lessened, but can't say it's completely gone. I notice it more during the day that in the early morning when it's dark... I'll check again on the way home today and see how it feels/looks. The vibration in the steering was totally visable.

Nice they have a fully documented set of procedures to isolate it now.

BlackGT5
01-05-2010, 08:58 AM
Good to see that GM was/is working on a fix.

vert
01-05-2010, 09:02 AM
Thanks MOM

GM_Fan
01-05-2010, 10:06 AM
Thanks..I scheduled service next Monday at yet another dealership...Cross my fingers and hope they get this fixed.

-Ray-
01-05-2010, 11:22 AM
Thank you Jessika!
Now, about that water leak that was mentioned, but there are no posts on this board about it.

Oldtimer
01-05-2010, 11:55 AM
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

I took my wife's G8 GT in, with 750 miles on it. The rear end whine was so loud you could hear it over the radio (mine whine's, but no where near as loud as her's does)!

They called me and said they wanted me to drive the car with a Tech to make sure that what they were hearing was what I was referring to. At 70, with no radio, there it was.

"Is that the sound?"

My response to the Tech's question: "Yes, do you hear it, too?"

"Yes, that's what I heard when I drove it, I just wanted to make sure."

When I went to pick up the car, the Service Order noted:

"High Pitched Whining Noise from engine area (we never said that, I told them it sounded like it came from the differential) while driving 70 MPH and accelerate." "No Abnormal Noise at this time, unable to duplicate."

Guess where I'm going tomorrow, armed with this little piece of paper?

:boxing:

johnbell2
01-05-2010, 05:18 PM
"Some customers may be sensitive to the change in engine frequency (both in feel and exhaust tone) when Active Fuel Management is engaged. In order to minimize this sensation, 2009 Pontiac G8 GT models built with VIN 9L3 (2009.5 M Y) have revised engine mounts that reduce the transmitted vibration from the engine. Vehicles equipped with these revised mounts should not be a concern."

As a proud 9L3 owner, I have to say I had a hearty chuckle over the above statement. I must be one of those "sensitive" customers but to me AFM is all too noticeable when it kicks in/out constantly at normal highway speeds. When it was all said and done the fix was purchase of SuperChips and AFM disable option picked in the tune. Runs smooth as silk now.

All whining & complaining aside, thanks for running this info down. I have a feeling it'll come in handy later.

SpeedRacerX
01-05-2010, 07:27 PM
Wow. This is awesome. My car goes in next week for the oil leak and we were going to talk about my unsolved vibration issue because as of last week, they were willing to try anything to make me happy but had no success with other cars with this issue and no direction from GM as to the process or solution. This is extremely timely information.

Wicked Mom, you are the best! :worthy:

And for that, you get a :hug:

MaxPower
01-06-2010, 05:38 AM
My steering wheel vibration "seems" to have been the Goodyear RSA's... They replaced them with 4 new Michelin's (at the same time they replaced the LCA's as well, and turned the rotors).

The vibration seems to have lessened, but can't say it's completely gone. I notice it more during the day that in the early morning when it's dark... I'll check again on the way home today and see how it feels/looks. The vibration in the steering was totally visable.

Nice they have a fully documented set of procedures to isolate it now.

My steering wheel is rock solid after checking it out around 65-70mph yesterday. Most likely it was the flat-spotted RSA's... but interestingly enough, I thought I remembered still feeling some vibration/shake after the Michelin's and all the other work was done - and now that the SOLO cat-back is on, don't feel it AT ALL.

Wish I had more seat time in it before I swapped out the exhaust. I read of someone else noting their steering wheel vibration disappeared after installing a new cat-back.

Rawyzf
01-06-2010, 08:27 AM
I get some vibration on the wheel....so I'll bring this up at my next oil change! Thanks for the info.

I wonder what they are going to say about doing the work though. I see that they have to remove the right side exhaust manifold and cat. Well....many of us have headers, so I wonder if that will end up being an issue.


EDIT: Also, wondering how these softer engine mounts will effect engine/driveline lash? From past experiences with Mazda's, everyone usually upgraded to Hardened Poly Mounts to elimiate the lash and deliver the power to the wheels more "crisp" for lack of a better word at the moment :).

Panzer Leader
01-06-2010, 02:12 PM
Thanks Mom, and thats what a world class car company does.

-Ray-
01-06-2010, 04:12 PM
I get some vibration on the wheel....so I'll bring this up at my next oil change! Thanks for the info.

I wonder what they are going to say about doing the work though. I see that they have to remove the right side exhaust manifold and cat. Well....many of us have headers, so I wonder if that will end up being an issue.


EDIT: Also, wondering how these softer engine mounts will effect engine/driveline lash? From past experiences with Mazda's, everyone usually upgraded to Hardened Poly Mounts to elimiate the lash and deliver the power to the wheels more "crisp" for lack of a better word at the moment :).


Typically if you have aftermarket parts that need to be removed, most times you'll have to pay the book labor to have them removed. It's the dealerships decision.

Adjusted35
01-09-2010, 09:41 AM
I can't get my dealer to work with me. They say the TSB is extensive and will cost more to run than they will receive in reimbursement from GM.

Also, the regional rep apparently has final say over whether they'll provide the damn prop-shaft.

Overall, it looks like GM is creating a bunch of 2nd class citizens out of we G8 owners...having to go "begging" for part replacements that GM knows are bad, or they wouldn't issue a TSB in the first place.

Standard BS line from the dealer: "They all make that noise, so it's not a defect". I want to drive my G8 through their dealership plate glass!

Any ideas on how to convince a dealer (who admittedly has the best techs in my area once you get their attention) to work with the TSB's instead of pushing we "seated in coach" Pontiac owners around? I'm too old for this sh*t!!

-Ray-
01-09-2010, 10:35 AM
I can't get my dealer to work with me. They say the TSB is extensive and will cost more to run than they will receive in reimbursement from GM.

Also, the regional rep apparently has final say over whether they'll provide the damn prop-shaft.

Overall, it looks like GM is creating a bunch of 2nd class citizens out of we G8 owners...having to go "begging" for part replacements that GM knows are bad, or they wouldn't issue a TSB in the first place.

Standard BS line from the dealer: "They all make that noise, so it's not a defect". I want to drive my G8 through their dealership plate glass!

Any ideas on how to convince a dealer (who admittedly has the best techs in my area once you get their attention) to work with the TSB's instead of pushing we "seated in coach" Pontiac owners around? I'm too old for this sh*t!!

Call Pontiac Customer Care. Be nice on the phone, those folks are there to help you.

R.Penguin
01-09-2010, 12:06 PM
Thanks Mom,

No wonder it took awhile to find a fix. They had to write an entire encyclopedia! :p
.
.
.
:nah:

WickedMom
01-09-2010, 03:58 PM
E0901
Vibration Diagnosis
0.8 hr

Add
Measure Tire Wheel Asm., Runout and Re-Balance
1.3 hrs

Add
Replace Tire and/or Wheel -- Each
0.2 hr

J7551
Engine Motor Mounts (Both)
1.5 hr

F1280
Propeller Shaft Replacement
0.9 hr

Looks like a 4+ hour potential here... I doubt it will take them that long to go through the process... sounds like they are a wind down store.

GM_Fan
01-11-2010, 04:35 PM
I took my car in today.

They claimed all they did was indexed the driveshaft again. It appears to have eliminated the vibration problem at last.

familycaronROIDS!
01-11-2010, 05:56 PM
Hey my car does vibrate when I am on a smooth highway driving on normal speeds between 60-75. I am gonna take it in at my earliest convenience. I am just gonna have to tell them not to touch my ECM & TCM.. Or I will kick their butts!!

Adjusted35
01-13-2010, 08:53 AM
Update:
Car in service for 3 days now. They've flashed BCM, TCM, etc.. with new firmware (check GMTIS site...it will tell you if your car has available update for the ECU's):
http://tis2web.service.gm.com/tis2web

So far, had to get into scream-fest at service manager, because he's insisting now that there's no road good enough in the area to induce the driveshaft vibration. He called tech line at GM, they told him to put the vibration sensors on the car and run with it...waiting to hear back.

If not this dealer, then the next. I know there's an issue, based on the description in the TSB (exact match to the symptoms...phasing vibration, booming noise, etc...) but this dealer is jerking me around, telling me how much time and money they'd have to put into my car just to accomplish the items in the TSB.

Bad vibes all around.

Will post again when I hear back from dealer today.

Would it be worth BUYING the new driveshaft from GM if the dealer's refusing to run the TSB? They're giving me the BS about "They all do it, so it's a design issue", etc.

Can't understand why they won't take GM's money for the repair!!

WickedMom
01-25-2010, 10:06 PM
Today I started this bulletin on my car. Today we did the EVA vibration analyzer and confirmed the vibration is in the range for the driveshaft issue... we sent the wheels to a tire shop that has a road force balancer...

I dont know too much about road force balancing, but they said one wheel had a .025 runout. According to the bulletin, .030 is the goal or max runout for a 'sensitive' customer... which my SM was determined that I am.
The other wheels were .009, .002 and .007

Tomorrow we are measuring the runout of the front brake rotors and probably turning them.

Weird thing is, I think there is an improvement with the Road force balancing. I'll know tomorrow.


...TBC!

GotMyG8V8
01-26-2010, 05:43 AM
I dropped my car off last night so they could look at it today. I really hope they verify the issue without me having to bring up the TSB lol. I don't like to come in as that guy who self diagnosed and knows that exact problem is happening, I just tell them what is going on, which is basically hitting on any valid bullet points that might be in the TSB.

pokey
01-26-2010, 07:58 AM
I dropped my car off last night so they could look at it today. I really hope they verify the issue without me having to bring up the TSB lol. I don't like to come in as that guy who self diagnosed and knows that exact problem is happening, I just tell them what is going on, which is basically hitting on any valid bullet points that might be in the TSB.

I usually try that method also. For my alignment issue I had (strut bearings) it worked. For my radio issue (flashing radio) it did not work. So I had to get a little more aggressive! :boxing:

GotMyG8V8
01-26-2010, 10:35 AM
Well they are saying it's my left front wheel hub, which does sound like one of the noises I was hearing. So that's getting replaced tomorrow. He said that appears to have been the source of both issues. I don't buy it, hopefully when they test drive it tomorrow they will see if the shake is still apparent. Hey if it fixes it, i'm all for it. Just sometimes it isn't that easy.

SpeedRacerX
01-26-2010, 01:08 PM
Step 3 or 4 for me tomorrow in this saga - new engine mounts - part of the TSB. I can guarantee it will be the propshaft when it's all done but GM will not let the shop jump to step xx until the other steps before it are complete.

VQ35DE
01-27-2010, 02:57 AM
Keep us updated WickedMom !

SpeedRacerX
01-27-2010, 08:46 AM
Motor mounts are done. They supposedly double-checked several of the other TSB items again too i.e. wheels, tires, rotors...and they took down all kinds of readings to report to GM.

Slight glitch when I noticed afterward that by raising the motor and lowering it my Vararam OTR intake came back down twisted, slanted, wires were trapped, and my LEDs wiring was almost sheared in half. Fortunately, service writer, dealership, and mechanic were awesome and fixed me right up.

Drove it to work. Didn't seem to make a difference. I have to drive more on a long smooth road at 69 mph for awhile but it seems like the phasing vibration is still there.

I have to report back to them with how it feels and probably move on to the final phase = propshaft.

I'm hoping we almost have it.

pokey
01-27-2010, 11:00 AM
Motor mounts are done. They supposedly double-checked several of the other TSB items again too i.e. wheels, tires, rotors...and they took down all kinds of readings to report to GM.



Did the motor mounts make any difference with AFM or driving at lower speeds? I have had a bad vibration at lower speeds I've been chasing and have been thinking about trying different motor mounts.

Thanks..

SpeedRacerX
01-27-2010, 11:29 AM
Did the motor mounts make any difference with AFM or driving at lower speeds? I have had a bad vibration at lower speeds I've been chasing and have been thinking about trying different motor mounts.

Thanks..

AFM....maybe. Low speed shake or vibration.....I don't see any improvement yet. I need more time to try it. Sorry.

I really want to drive my car one day and say, "wow, that feels so much better and different now that they replaced xyz." I haven't been able to do that yet.

pokey
01-27-2010, 04:19 PM
That's good info to know. I don't want to go through the trouble if there isn't going to be a noticeable fix. Thanks for the info. -Scott

GotMyG8V8
01-28-2010, 05:58 AM
I absolutely love it. The service writer even agreed that the vibration was only 90% gone. And he said he was curious to see what was really causing it. I mentioned the TSB and he said the tech looked at it too and didn't do it because he felt that my blizzaks might have been causing the vibration, which is garbage. He was cool about it though, said that if I wasn't happy driving it I could drop it back off and he would drive with me and see first hand and then do what they had to do. Yes the moan I was hearing was noticeably better, but not gone, so the wheel hub was obviously bad. HOWEVER, how could you not notice there is still a moan present when driving the car. And even more so a vibration. Geez my girlfriends cobalt has less vibration in it! lol

SpeedRacerX
01-30-2010, 10:09 AM
OK - up to this point, dealer said they did everything on the TSB, except for the propshaft.

So, on Wednesday, I get my car back after the motor mounts were swapped. Still pulls left. Still have some wheel/tire/steering wheel shake. And after a nice road test cruising at 70 mph on Thursday evening, the phasing vibration is STILL there. Actually, I knew it would be because it's obviously coming from the driveline.

I call the dealer Friday am to let them know that the vibration is still there. They say they will order the propshaft and will call me back. They get back to me a few hours later and tell me they talked to GM and they will need my car for 2 days to get all the measurements and readings GM needs before they will OK the propshaft exchange!!!! WTF! Really? What have they been doing with my car during the 3 or 4 visits? I told them 5 times that the TSB was very specific that they had to follow these steps in order for GM to approve the propshaft. I'm beginning to lose patience.

So, I'll try to get my car to them this coming week and let them do what they should have been doing for the last 1-2 months. Hopefully they can exhaust their options and get all the readings they need to justify the propshaft, get it ordered, and get it swapped out.

Sounds like I'm at this for another 2 weeks until it's resolved.

WickedMom
01-30-2010, 10:41 AM
The motor mounts are just to address a vibration in AFM mode. Not the complaint most of us have...
The measurements shouldnt take 2 days to do... more like an hour.

SpeedRacerX
01-30-2010, 12:04 PM
The motor mounts are just to address a vibration in AFM mode. Not the complaint most of us have...
The measurements shouldnt take 2 days to do... more like an hour.

Yes I know what the new motor mounts were meant to cure and no, it's not the problem I have. I think the dealer wasn't listening but they will be on Monday because my patience has worn thin.

I have no reason to doubt what you say about the hours versus days; let's hope I'm pleasantly surprised.

Badco
02-04-2010, 09:12 PM
I have this issue currently. I noticed it today on the highway. Low frequency, rythmic "thrums" and it wasn't the AFM kicking in. It's headed to the shop Monday. We'll see what happens then!

WickedMom
02-04-2010, 09:16 PM
my freakin mechanics wife HAD to go have a baby in the middle of my diag on this. He comes back monday...

Mike P
02-04-2010, 09:18 PM
my freakin mechanics wife HAD to go have a baby in the middle of my diag on this. He comes back monday...


She could have held it..... lol :D



...

VQ35DE
02-05-2010, 06:01 PM
my freakin mechanics wife HAD to go have a baby in the middle of my diag on this. He comes back monday...

You should have told her to WAIT ! :nutkick:

Adam
02-06-2010, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the post. It has been on my service write up since the 24 mile mark. still have the issue... 6 services later, I am seeing this and I think it sounds just like my issue.

Adjusted35
02-06-2010, 08:31 PM
Thanks for the post. It has been on my service write up since the 24 mile mark. still have the issue... 6 services later, I am seeing this and I think it sounds just like my issue.

Check out my "GM Balanced Driveshaft" thread in the G8 drivetrain section.

There's an after-install review or two of the Dynotech balanced replacement shafts that GM is dropping into the G8's which have resonance at 46Hz (once you convince your dealer to put on the vibration sensing equipment and drive 65 for a mile or two!)

Good luck...if you can get them to bend, it will make your world a nicer place...total elimination of all drivetrain vibrations. Very nice.:cheers:

WickedMom
02-10-2010, 07:04 PM
The check request from the dealership to dynotech was written today. Hopefully we get it tomorrow and it can go out. Soon I will join the vibrationless ranks.

Habibus
02-12-2010, 01:07 PM
I took my car for an oil change (first one ever, at 9000 miles!) and complained about it shaking on the freeway. They said the road force on 3 of the tires was too much, so they replaced 3 tires under warranty. It does seem to be a bit tighter now. I haven't driven it much since it was last night.

Mr louis
02-14-2010, 09:38 AM
My cure was Flowmasters can't hear anything but the drone.had mine in the shop 3 ir 4 time for this issue.They agread that there was a noise but they said it was normal.

GotMyG8V8
02-15-2010, 10:43 AM
Finally getting to drop my car off again tonight so it can be looked at tomorrow. I'm referencing the tsb right up front, re-iterating that i want it tested. I don't like not having a car.

GotMyG8V8
02-16-2010, 09:09 AM
Innnnteresting. Dealership just called, said that my tires are screwed up. They did a roadforce balance on them to test them and they're way out of spec or something to that degree. Something is supposed to be 19 and it's at 50 or something on two of the tires, and the other two are at 25..I don't know lol. Anyway, they won't do anymore diagnosing on the car until the tires are changed. Funny, the guy said he did me a favor and did the roadforce balance for free instead of charging 90 dollars. If that's used in the diagnostic process, and i explicitely said to call me if they needed to do anything that might cost money, they couldn't charge me regardless could they?

I still think it's funny that my symptoms are the EXACT symptoms, down to the letter, but I guess it will have to wait until i get the summers back on.

Oldtimer
02-18-2010, 02:41 PM
#10-03-09-001: Shake/Vibration in Steering Wheel, Boom/Moan Noise at Highway Speeds on Smooth Roads (Replace Engine Mounts, Propshaft, Balance Wheel/Tire Assemblies or Correct Brake Rotor Runout) - (Jan 4, 2010)

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

Even though I gave this entire document to my dealer, they are telling me that the only "TSB" they have is to do the weights on the motor mount fix, and they have done that, and it didn't help. They are also telling me that the noise (which can be heard over a moderate level of the radio) is insignificant.

Help!

Thanks!

mfox
02-18-2010, 02:59 PM
Go to another Dealer or ask them to get the GM field Tech involved.
Don't let down.:boxing:

Thunder_PC
02-18-2010, 06:12 PM
Now that this TSB has come out, I will take mine in for the 3rd time I guess. Bradshaw in Greer, SC keeps pushing me off, and showing me the RF balance is good, so there is nothing else they can do, even though the vibration persists. Their solution both times after doing a RF balance was just to under-inflate my tires when they gave it back, which always made it feel better but still present. Upon inflating to the proper cold pressures, it's always back. I was previously always very impressed with Bradshaw, but this vibration issue has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Adjusted35
02-18-2010, 06:32 PM
Now that this TSB has come out, I will take mine in for the 3rd time I guess. Bradshaw in Greer, SC keeps pushing me off, and showing me the RF balance is good, so there is nothing else they can do, even though the vibration persists. Their solution both times after doing a RF balance was just to under-inflate my tires when they gave it back, which always made it feel better but still present. Upon inflating to the proper cold pressures, it's always back. I was previously always very impressed with Bradshaw, but this vibration issue has left a bad taste in my mouth.

If tire inflation changes the vibration, then it could be a tire issue rather than a drive shaft issue, or possibly a combination of the two.

How certain are you that the road-force is actually normal? What are the lateral runout readings on each of the 4 tires? Just because they're "within spec" doesn't mean they're right, and with the G8, it seems any small vibration gets much more pronounced at speed. Almost as if the thing's one giant noise-maker!

You could have a warped brake rotor, because most of the G8's do if you're running OEM.

Honestly, I'd find another dealer. Sounds like this one's the shits and they probably aren't going to change any time soon. Could be they're going out of business or having financial problems such that they just don't care anymore (IMHO)?

That kind of doesn't make sense, because they could make some money on the diagnostics under warranty, but if they're greedy, then they want to tell you to F.O.A.D. and try to sell you something.

Either that, or they're trying to convince you that your G8 is a POS and will try to get you to trade it in (because there are very few on the market, and they'll make a good amount of $$ if they can get it out of your hands and back onto the lot).

Just some ideas. Overall, I'd change dealers or contact Pontiac directly..but that might just piss off the service manager.

Luck, Man!

Thunder_PC
02-18-2010, 06:38 PM
Yes, they RF balanced them twice (mentioned in original post). I have suspected a tire issue die to the vibration subsiding at lower pressures, and was hoping they would just replace the tires figuring maybe a flat spot. They have been rotated twice though, and the vibration in the steering wheel continues from 50 or 55 to about 70 or 80. I also get the "moan" indicative of the driveshaft problem.

I have visited the idea of "changing dealers". It is ironic that what drew me to Bradshaw in the first place was the ineptitude of another local GM dealer. Bradshaw use to do whatever was needed to fix a customer's concerns. They now appear to be slipping into the rut of other GM dealers in my area. One thing is certain, if I were to buy another GM vehicle soon, It would not come from them. I honestly hate even having to deal with a dealership monkey them again now that the TSB is out.

WickedMom
02-18-2010, 06:40 PM
You could have a warped brake rotor, because most of the G8's do if you're running OEM.


? Really? most G8s have warped rotors? I have mic'd a few cars so far and have yet to find one with any significant runout.

I know that I have autocrossed my car, drag raced, and regularly am in the aggressive canyons of SoCal over the 13k miles on my car. If anyone SHOULD have warped rotors it would be me. I actually expected to have to have my rotors cut. But they are totally in spec.

Just curious as to why you think this.

Thunder_PC
02-18-2010, 06:41 PM
I also don't suspect my rotors to be warped. Runout, maybe, but not warped. Braking is steady, and warp would certainly cause pedal pulsation. Rotor runout may (should) not cause pedal pulsation though.

Oldtimer
02-18-2010, 06:51 PM
Even though I gave this entire document to my dealer, they are telling me that the only "TSB" they have is to do the weights on the motor mount fix, and they have done that, and it didn't help. They are also telling me that the noise (which can be heard over a moderate level of the radio) is insignificant.

Help!

Thanks!

Okay, maybe they listened when I inquired about the requirements under the Lemon Law, and whether they would like to have the car back.

The Service Manager called back and asked if I would ride with him and see if he could figure out what I was talking about. I'm driving, and we get on a local highway. At 69 mph, he turns to me and says: "Is that the noise? That's horrible! Pull over and let me drive."

I had another copy of the service bulletin with me, and when we stopped, I handed it to him, and showed him the various steps they are supposed to go through, including the one about accessing the trunk through the backseat, in order to attach the EVA device. He confirms, while driving, that he can certainly hear the whine from 69 up to 77; then on the way back to the dealership he says: "Can you also feel the vibration at around 34 up to around 45?" His field assessment was that their may be a minor harmonic at the lower speed, that is then amplified at the higher speed.

Back at the dealership, we walk over to the Service Writer, and the Manager instructs him to follow every step in the bulletin, including filling in all the questions, so that when he has to call GM Quality, they will have all the documentation required to acquire a replacement driveshaft if necessary.

You hate to have to take it upstairs to get something done right, but . . . we'll see what happens.

WickedMom
02-18-2010, 06:57 PM
I actually went through all the steps. There is no need for anyone to call GM techline on this one, Just a call or email to the name which I have omitted from the post, and he sends the info on how to get the shaft. I did not have to submit anything. Bet I will with the actual repair... but it was pretty easy to get the shaft released.

I have mailed the check and am just waiting on it to clear, hopefully I will have it by 3/2

VQ35DE
02-19-2010, 12:05 PM
Mrs. Goodwrench,
Why send a check ? Did you or you store (dealership) have to buy the new shaft ? How does that work ?

SpeedRacerX
02-19-2010, 04:16 PM
Mrs. Goodwrench,
Why send a check ? Did you or you store (dealership) have to buy the new shaft ? How does that work ?

My dealer had to send a check too. Seems like the dealer pays first and then gets reimbursed by GM... :uhm:

WickedMom
02-19-2010, 04:35 PM
Yup, that is exactly it. Plus they will not send the part without the check clearing. SIGH>

WickedMom
02-19-2010, 04:38 PM
for clarification.


You will need to contact *******, DynoTech, telephone number ***-***-**** and indicate a drive shaft is needed.
The delaership will be required to provide a method of payment for the charges summarized below.
The ultimate sublet charges to be submitted with the warranty claim along with removal and replacement of the prop shaft will be:

1) Sublet charges for balancing the prop = $175.00

2) Shipping charges to the dealership (US) = $48.00

3) Shipping charges to Canada, $125.00

4) Shipping charges for the old drive shaft back to Dynotech (US) = $41.00 (pre paid shipment label included for shipment back to Dynotech)

5) Shipping charges back from Canada = $118.00 (pre paid shipment label included for shipment back to Dynotech)


6) If payment is by Credit Card, items that are needed:
a) #
b) Expiration date
c) Security code from reverse side of card
d) Name on card
e) Address card is billed to

7) Checks are accepted, the drive shaft will not be shipped until the check is received and cleared

Few basic instructions:
1. The shaft may require rotation to achieve the best position relative to the differential flange. Some do, most do not. If rotation to flange is needed, DO NOT UNBOLT THE COUPLER FROM THE PROP SHAFT! Unbolt the differential flange from the drive shaft coupler, rotate right or left 120 degrees, and rebolt and tighten to specifications. Road test is required. This previous procedure may be required again. Which of the 3 positions is best, it may be the very 1st one.
2. Please treat the box the shaft was received in with care, this will be used to ship the removed shaft back to Dynotech. Carefully pack the replaced drive shaft to prevent any damage and ship it back with last 8 of the VIN plainly marked on the drive shaft
3. As mentioned above, shipping of the drive shaft back to Dynotech is already prepaid and is to be submitted as part of the total sublet bill on the warranty claim for drive shaft R&R.

Adjusted35
02-21-2010, 02:24 PM
? Really? most G8s have warped rotors? I have mic'd a few cars so far and have yet to find one with any significant runout.

I know that I have autocrossed my car, drag raced, and regularly am in the aggressive canyons of SoCal over the 13k miles on my car. If anyone SHOULD have warped rotors it would be me. I actually expected to have to have my rotors cut. But they are totally in spec.

Just curious as to why you think this.

Mom -
That's what I was told by two different service managers here in central FL.

That they have had to cut the rotors on "pretty much every G8 on the lot".

So it's not just my humble opinion, I was passing along what I've been told.

Thanks!

SpeedRacerX
03-03-2010, 05:44 PM
My new propshaft came in yesterday as the last step in addressing this TSB. It was installed this morning.

First, I have nothing but respect and appreciation for my dealer for going all out to satisfy me. They were fantastic - especially my service writer and the service manager.

Unfortunately, I am unhappy to report that after 4 highway cruises to test, the vibration is worse but different. It now feels like the phasing/drivetrain vibration is better or gone but now it seems like it's the tires. In the 65-75 range, it feels terrible.

But the tires, wheels, brakes, etc were all checked already during the TSB work. Now what? I DO know that the dealer did not road force balance the tires. Could it be that simple now? Maybe the stock GY RSA's just stink that bad?

I am so wiped out over this and feeling let down. I have a local friend with another G8 that I've requested for us to switch cars for a drive or two to see if it's me or the car.

WickedMom
03-04-2010, 02:23 PM
ok. dont give up yet... the driveshaft must/may need to be indexed. The instructions that I got in my email were that the first position may not be the best. There are 3 positions. It COULD be in the road force balancing... but I doubt it.

I got my prop shaft today, so far so good...

SpeedRacerX
03-04-2010, 02:40 PM
ok. dont give up yet... the driveshaft must/may need to be indexed. The instructions that I got in my email were that the first position may not be the best. There are 3 positions. It COULD be in the road force balancing... but I doubt it.

I got my prop shaft today, so far so good...

Thanks Jes, the Svc Mgr did mention that to me as the last thing they could try so I will call them tomorrow and make another appt. :hang:

WickedMom
03-04-2010, 02:54 PM
Seriously... this is the email I got regarding the installation.
they are wasting your time if they did not read the basic instructions that came with the prop.


Few basic instructions:
1. The shaft may require rotation to achieve the best position relative to the differential flange. Some do, most do not. If rotation to flange is needed, DO NOT UNBOLT THE COUPLER FROM THE PROP SHAFT! Unbolt the differential flange from the drive shaft coupler, rotate right or left 120 degrees, and rebolt and tighten to specifications. Road test is required. This previous procedure may be required again. Which of the 3 positions is best, it may be the very 1st one.
2. Please treat the box the shaft was received in with care, this will be used to ship the removed shaft back to Dynotech. Carefully pack the replaced drive shaft to prevent any damage and ship it back with last 8 of the VIN plainly marked on the drive shaft
3. As mentioned above, shipping of the drive shaft back to Dynotech is already prepaid and is to be submitted as part of the total sublet bill on the warranty claim for drive shaft R&R.

VQ35DE
03-04-2010, 05:48 PM
When do you think your tech will be done with your car ?

WickedMom
03-04-2010, 07:12 PM
Mine was done when I posted that ^^^^...

It is totally better. I just drove it home after work (4 miles or so at fwy speeds).... AMAZING difference. I do feel the tires more now though... not bad, just different.

GotMyG8V8
03-05-2010, 05:31 AM
I wish i could throw on my summers again so i can give the car back to the dealership and get the process going. Congrats on getting it taken care of Wicked and Speed, hopefully they will iron out the last bit and you will have a smooth driving car again.

Night Train
06-10-2010, 11:45 AM
Jessika, I think that I will be seeing you soon.

LongbowFoSho
09-12-2011, 04:54 PM
We FINALLY got ours fixed after literally three months of back and forth bullshit with the dealer. First they told us it was normal, then they said it was the roads, then they said it was the tires (brand new), then they said that it couldn't be fixed even if it wasn't normal, etc. They finally replaced the mount and the noise got louder, so we took it back only to be told that they put the same mount back in. They sent me an online survey and I tore them up in it. Jess got a call from the service manager who STILL tried to say it couldn't be fixed, despite me showing them the Holden TSB as well as this thread and others documenting the problem and the fix. He finally agreed to go on a ride-along and immediately understood what the problem was. They put the correct tranny mount in this time and Jess said its 1000 times better now.

Now if we could only get them to properly fix the glove box (rarely closes) and the new grinding/pulsating in the brakes while turning.

We've only owned the car three months and it has been nothing but problems. Thank god I bought one that was Certified with the extra warranty. If things don't settle down with it by the time the warranty runs out, we're selling it. Love the car but I'm not dumping money into it every week for a new problem.

finallink
02-15-2012, 03:32 AM
Your whine is probably from the AFM or transmission mount. I have an automatic and at 70 and up hold the pedal steady and there it is. You can set it cruise and duplicate the whine. Switch to sport mode, then shift up to 6th gear and bamo its gone. What your hearing is the 4 cycl deactivation pulses transferred harmonics through the drive train which is most notable with the noise resonating from the rear of the chassis from the trunk area. I also had the Transmission mount replaced because it would make a vibration at hi speeds. I'm having the AFM turned off with an aftermarket tune next week. The G8 forum has a complete list of all the tech bulletins you definitely want to look at them I found two of my issues there for the vibration issue.
http://www.g8board.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=99

-Ray-
02-15-2012, 03:38 AM
This forum has a TSB section. You posted in it
Since our forum name is censored on G8bored I'd appreciate you linking directly to the post that has the TSB information in it.

pokey
03-08-2012, 06:01 PM
Update: to my experience GM has stopped replacing/repairing the prop shafts but instead are replacing the couplings with the ones being installed on the Camaro's.

I've been working with the Service Manager at a local GM garage and he has been talking to the GM Engineer in charge of this issue. I asked point blank if they are repairing the prop shafts anymore and he said no.

1. they replaced my prop shaft couplings with "92228328 F-COUPLING KIT"
2. tried rotating the prop shaft 180 degrees

I still have the vibration on the highway, it is different but no better and no worse. If anything after they balanced my tires I can feel it more. I'm now being told that this is normal for my vehicle. So, tomorrow I'll be calling my Service Manager and Pontiac Customer service to inform them of my displeasure with General Motors. Pisses me off that their solution is now to find a bushing which they hope will "mask" the vibrations of an out of balance prop shaft. Bastards.

pokey
03-14-2012, 07:06 PM
Well after many phone calls it sounds like I will get a balanced prop-shaft. Or at least they will balance mine. I've read varying results, so we shall see.. either way I'll be glad to move on, either fixed, learn to ignore, or ...

WickedMom
03-14-2012, 07:10 PM
I got one of the early balanced shafts and it fixed my issue 99%

finallink
03-23-2012, 08:24 AM
Wicked Mom will you have my kid? I love you.
Parts came in yesterday, got a GM paid car rental waiting anxiously for the local dealer to finish this TSB repair on my vehicle.

WickedMom
03-23-2012, 08:32 AM
Sorry, I'm done having kids. :)

I hope the driveshaft fixes your concerns.


Sent from my insanely great iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

vert
03-23-2012, 09:47 AM
Sorry, I'm done having kids. :)

I hope the driveshaft fixes your concerns.


Sent from my insanely great iPhone 4s using Tapatalk
I thought you are the surrogate mom on this board?

WickedMom
03-24-2012, 08:11 PM
I'm like an adoptive mom I guess. :)


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TheOriginalSin
03-27-2012, 11:14 AM
So im bringing my car to the dealer on thursday to have them check my steering wheel shake problem. The guy on the phone was telling me if its bad hubs/rotors thats not covered under warranty. How can that be true, I would think hubs should be included in the 3 year 30k warranty? Those of you who have had this issue looked at, did you print this thread off and show it to the service writer?

roman1978
03-27-2012, 11:34 AM
the hubs are coverd under warranty i had mine rplaced at 55k

pokey
03-28-2012, 06:34 PM
So im bringing my car to the dealer on thursday to have them check my steering wheel shake problem. The guy on the phone was telling me if its bad hubs/rotors thats not covered under warranty. How can that be true, I would think hubs should be included in the 3 year 30k warranty? Those of you who have had this issue looked at, did you print this thread off and show it to the service writer?

I only provided the TSB number. (My car is still sitting at the dealership waiting for the driveshaft to return) :(

TheOriginalSin
03-30-2012, 08:06 AM
Dealership just called and surprise surprise my LCA's are bad. After they put these in im thinking I need to invest in some quality aftermarket ones.

nifong08iom
04-18-2012, 05:35 AM
I am having this issue, and it's much more noticeable now that I installed my Solo catback yesterday. There is a noticeable boom/thrum at low and high speeds, especially if I set the cruise it almost sounds like a drone (i know its not the Solo doing that :) ) Are there any updates on this? I gather that it is not the motor mounts that cause the issue but the prop/driveshaft that needs replaced. Is this covered by GM at all costs?

zepcom
04-18-2012, 09:54 AM
As we discussed over the phone, try some of the things we talked about. Kinda depends on the dealership and how you approach the issue, as to the answer to your final sentence. I've seen dealers shuffle their hands and say "return it to stock before we touch it" and others who are mod-friendly, and can overlook that you might have an aftermarket setup on there. dod-tuneout is another option, you have to decide what is best for you.

--zep

nifong08iom
04-18-2012, 10:37 AM
i tried what you suggested with watching AFM in eng. mode, and you're right. Whenever I set the cruise at 65 on the highway in normal shift mode, the AFM kicks in and goes to Half Active (V4 mode) and I definitely get the vibration or thrumming under the feet and at the wheel. When I put it in Sport Shift and set cruise in M6, there is ZERO vibration and I cannot even hear the exhaust. I will probably be opting for the DOD delete when I get it tuned in a week or so. Loving the Solo catback so far, fixing the tips tomorrow as we spoke about. I do wish the Mach Unbalanced was a bit louder though...You know what that means though right? Kooks Mids w/ HFC coming up next to open her up and give a little more sound :) thanks again for the chat today! If the DOD delete doesn't help the thrumming/boom issue, I will look into taking it in to the dealer with the bulletin.

pokey
04-19-2012, 07:15 AM
Update: ... my experiences, sharing to help the next owner.

As many have already noticed this car is EXTREMELY sensitive to any rotating mass out of balance, suspension problems, etc. When I mean sensitive the driver is not isolated from feeling these issues, minor to major.

As I've owned this car I have progressed from fixing one source of vibration with another becoming more noticeable. Slowly though improving the overall car and my sanity. The following repairs have had the biggest positive impact to removing sources of my annoyance.


- Transmission mount (fix)
- Motor mounts (replace / update)
- Prop-shaft (balance)

Transmission mount:
This was the TSB which originally put wheel weights on the part to stop it from "whining", squealing, etc. in 6th gear on the highway. The weights didn't help my whining to my family / friends but it did seem to fix the car. But WTF? GM.. what kind of fix was that? At least now they have an updated part number which I think I heard means they don't have to use wheel weights anymore.

Engine mounts:
This repair made the biggest improvement to my car. I was feeling more then I cared for, engine vibration through the steering wheel at low speeds around 32 mph under light throttle. At the time I drove mostly in town and this was felt often.

Prop-shaft:
Which brings me to my latest repair my "holy grail" of vibration repairs, the prop-shaft balance. I started this latest adventure as all the rest with the dreaded stop to the dealership. The first repair they completed was to balance the tires at which my service advisor confidently stated "these cars are very sensitive to wheel balance and this WILL fix your highway speed vibrations!" He is right but that wasn't THE VIBRATION I wanted fixed. (needless to say this pissed me off, his confidence and arrogance.. but I gave it a try) He also mentioned GM was no longer doing the TSB listed at the top of this thread. Prop-shaft balance.

Ironically by balancing my tires and eliminating this source of vibration it allowed the prop-shaft vibration to be felt even more. I could now also hear the low frequency pulsating sound with the vibration. My only theory was by eliminating this vibration the other was no longer partially canceled out, like tossing two pebbles in a lake and watching the ripples of water meet. So back I go..

This time I asked to speak to the Service Manager. He was not around so I told the friendly gentlemen who was unlucky to have to help me that I would be calling Pontiac Customer Care but wanted to first speak with the Manager first. (I was polite through this entire process, I'm not the type of person to get mad or show emotion) When I spoke to the Manager he was great! He rode with me, verified the vibration, and said he would call GM.

The GM Engineer...
I was told my Service Manager was working directly with the GM Engineer responsible for this G8 issue. The next repair offered up by GM was to replace the Prop-shaft bushings to the updated Camaro ones. Interesting the Service Manager mentioned they looked the same but whatever..we gave it a try. They were replaced and it seemed like the vibration was still present so my prop-shaft was rotated 180 degrees. Car was then returned to me and I was told this was the only repair GM would authorize, no prop-shaft balance. I was also told that this "was just the normal characteristics of this vehicle" LOL..freaking BS! So off I went.

The bushings...
Interesting enough the bushings did change the feel of the car on the highway, the vibrations were not gone only different which made me believe we were in the right spot to fix. I called my Service Manager and politely mentioned I would be calling Customer Care. I also mentioned I still felt the prop-shaft needed balancing, that maybe it was "within manufacturing spec / tolerance" but for this car balanced tolerances had to be Perfect.

The prop-shaft...
So finally we come to my holy grail of repairs. I called Pontiac Customer Care/Service politely reviewed my experience and after a few phone calls was told GM would in fact authorize the repair. Took a little over 3 weeks for the balance to be completed, sent back and car to be returned to me.

The results...
Interesting my results are (what sounds like) the same as or similar to what SpeedRacerX mentioned earlier. My drive line vibration caused by the prop-shaft is basically 99% gone. No more pulsating vibration with sound. I do though HAVE other vibrations still present, around the same speeds 65-75mph. These could be anything, tires, rotors, something else?? So, sadly I'm not 100% vibration free and probably never will be. Would I do it again! YES!! Being a former Machinist I could not handle knowing I had component out of balance, and that GM's answer was to put different bushing in place to dampen any vibrations caused by the imbalance. If it worked though I would have not pursued the prop-shaft but for me it did not.

My advice..
If you have similar issues do what you need, to be happy with your car. If you feel your prop-shaft is in need of balancing and the dealership can't (won't) help you, call customer service. And I think what helped me was remain polite...these people are just doing their job albeit not very well sometimes. Will I pursue this any further, no. I will live with it as I'm getting closer to change the car anyway. Tires, brakes, rotors, bushings etc.. Maybe even some exhaust work to give the car a reason to resonate / vibrate!

Thanks to WickedMom, Charlie, and all the moderators / regulars on this forum for your help through the last 3 years!

I hope this helps.. any questions let me know / pm me. Good Luck!

MongosG8
07-05-2013, 02:16 PM
Sorry to bring up an old thread people but I'm desperate for some answers.

I'm not receiving good service ..as usual from the dealer.. might try another dealer but I'm having this issue and its pretty noticeable IMO.
The dealer is blaming it on my camaro wheels but that's impossible because I had them road forced and everything was in check just recently.

Feeling the vibration and it is exactly like Jess mention. Pulsation, vibration same area etc.

Do you think I would be better off just purchasing the dam thing myself and having a pro instal it for me? It seems like I'm going to beat my head into the ground convincing the dealer that this is the issue I'm having. Seems like they think I'm full of it when I mention this old bulletin and looked at me like I had a third eye on my forehead.

Would love to have some advice ..Jess would love your opinion plus all you other experts out there!


:uhm: ..Bueller ..Bueller?

-Ray-
07-05-2013, 02:28 PM
Ask to borrow some stock wheels and take it back.

WickedMom
07-05-2013, 03:09 PM
You could just buy it, if you can get it... Or ask the dealership to use the NVH tester.... Like they are supposed to...

But.. This issue would of been since the car was new, not a developed issue.

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MongosG8
07-05-2013, 05:48 PM
Ask to borrow some stock wheels and take it back.

Ray .. I still have my stock wheels.. they are in storage. Thought about this earlier just to throw them back on for shits and giggles and see what happens.


You could just buy it, if you can get it... Or ask the dealership to use the NVH tester.... Like they are supposed to...

But.. This issue would of been since the car was new, not a developed issue.

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Jess .. I actually asked a friend of mine that works for a Chevy dealer upstate if he could price one out. I also asked if the Camaros would work.
He suggested to me that he will ask his service manager if they can service my G8 ..If they can he will bring it to work and have it looked at ..he even said ..to get something like this replaced from GM is going to be like pulling teeth.

Its not like my G8 has a lot of hard miles.. it only has 18k on it ..it still needs to go through puberty. LOL!

ikarus
08-19-2013, 10:39 PM
Just bought my GT with 38k miles and put about 3k on in two weeks (had to drive it 2100 miles across country back to where I live), and I have felt this pulsing vibration the whole time. I could live with it I guess, but I'd rather get it taken care of - I just have a bad feeling trying to get it fixed at a generic GM dealer in Las Vegas is going to be like trying to pet a badger.