My nitrous install story

[13 QTR]

I bought a NOS plate system off a local and ordered the Microedge and the custom switch plate from HSW. So I was in Birmingham last tuesday getting the edge/switch installed...I have no patience for this part. We hit the road,first test the system with bottle off..goes rich. Then turn the bottle on...ping,ping...sounds like a 1980's diesal. Go back to the shop..check everything..so I load the vector nitrous tune again. Go back out....no ping but a little lean...about a 12.8....but it runs good. Of course I have a small leak at the bottle/gauge connections. I order new fittings and step up from a 31 fuel to a 33 fuel jet.
Parts come in New Years eve....get it installed. Go out to look for victoms. I'm now a little low on pressure(600 with the heater). During the night..the backlighting goes out on the edge..can't see the readout. Well the nights a wash...no one to run. I email Hsw on New Years day....I'll be damned...I get a response....I have to send the unit back for warranty. Today..I get the bottle filled...go out try it. It's set to come on at 3100...at 3100~ I get a stumble,followed by a loud backfire...then nose up/ass down,get up and go. Any ideas what the stumble thing is? Now tonight the backlighting starts working again...confused on sending it back. I like the features on the edge.

The day after the ping thing...I pulled the plugs...the last 2 on the drivers side...looked rough....the ground strap looked like it had tried to melt, kinda had what looked like a drop of metal welded to it. I replaced them...I repulled them tonight..they have a few of those 'pepper' sprinkled marks on them. I'm around a 12.1 -12.3 now. Should I go even bigger on the fuel jet? Running a 51 nitrous/ 33 fuel jet now....
Damn....I think I got carpal tunnel now...

[GRRRR8]

How big of a shot are you using. Check ALL grounds. It sounds like a shitty ground is causing most of your issues.

[locrzn#92]

Does the edge retard the timing when you flip the switch? I've been researching nos for my vet, probably 125 shot of wet. My tuner says when the switch is on and wot you need about 6 degrees less timing. He's making a wiring harness that retards it when the motor goes wot. Is that how the edges works? There is also a deal called timing twister. good luck

[jaxredg8]

I have the same kit and have had no problems like what you are describing and I have run anywhere from 100 to 175 shot. Keep us informed of how this turns out. Mine comes on at 3000.

[jaxredg8]

Does the edge retard the timing when you flip the switch? I've been researching nos for my vet, probably 125 shot of wet. My tuner says when the switch is on and wot you need about 6 degrees less timing. He's making a wiring harness that retards it when the motor goes wot. Is that how the edges works? There is also a deal called timing twister. good luck

Yes, the edge pulls the timing, looks for too rich/lean conditions, etc... Nice little system when it all works. I also had mine installed professionally and dyno tuned there after. Good luck OP either way!

[MGM GT]

Ummm I would tone it down a bit before you break something! A .51 N2O jet to start and 600 bottle pressure... just stop and think for a second!! With that low bottle pressure your running rich and running rich can be just as bad as lean. Not to mention the nitrous doesn't spray correctly at that low PSI.. probably why those back plugs looked bad. I would bump up your starting RPM a bit as well.

You are using colder plugs right? At least a TR6 gapped correctly. Whats your timing look like? By what you say about the plugs it looks like too much.

I started with a .40 maybe even smaller might have been a .35 and went through a set of plugs every pass... gradually worked up to a .46

Take your time theres no rush... do you even have traction? Do you have traction control off? Do you have it in gear ready to go or are you letting it downshift?

[13 QTR]

for charlie...a 100 shot,according to NOS

A 51 nitrous jet is for a 100 shot..looking at the NOS sheet.

The edge that I have...doesn't pull any timing...is that offered in the + feature?

The stumble/backfire happens even when I have the bottle off and the line purged empty....of course the fuel still sprays and the system is on. I tried that to see if it was a lean spike.

A ground...on what? I'm not sure where the installer got the ground for the edge. I know he had the whole dash out and used a switched power source somewhere around steering wheel area.

Traction....pretty good...I've got 275's in back. I haven't sprayed from a dead stop...all above 40 mph..so far.

tr6's...gapped at .40

[MGM GT]

for charlie...a 100 shot,according to NOS

A 51 nitrous jet is for a 100 shot..looking at the NOS sheet.

The edge that I have...doesn't pull any timing...is that offered in the + feature?

The stumble/backfire happens even when I have the bottle off and the line purged empty....of course the fuel still sprays and the system is on. I tried that to see if it was a lean spike.

A ground...on what? I'm not sure where the installer got the ground for the edge. I know he had the whole dash out and used a switched power source somewhere around steering wheel area.

Traction....pretty good...I've got 275's in back. I haven't sprayed from a dead stop...all above 40 mph..so far.

tr6's...gapped at .40

Why are you spraying fuel with the N2O off? You just trying to lift ringlands?

[13 QTR]

Why are you spraying fuel with the N2O off? You just trying to lift ringlands?

I was testing it out...before I turned on the nitrous,and I was trying to see if the backfire was a lean spike. I ruled out the lean spike..cause it can't be one if the bottle is off.

[GRRRR8]

I would look at the ground for the Micro and the relay. My friend that bought my Mach 1 had a shitty wwekend at a NMRA event do to a bad ground on the relay. Launched a 4K on the bottle did a huge wheelie and came crashing down when the relay lost its ground. No damage to the car, but he learned a very hard lesson about grounds as he was eliminated that round.

[MGM GT]

I was testing it out...before I turned on the nitrous,and I was trying to see if the backfire was a lean spike. I ruled out the lean spike..cause it can't be one if the bottle is off.

What wideband are you using and where do you have it installed?

Its dumping fuel like mad if your spraying with the bottle off. NOS usually runs rich anyways if your using the chart outta the box.

Be careful... your scaring me.

[13 QTR]

What wideband are you using and where do you have it installed?

Its dumping fuel like mad if your spraying with the bottle off. NOS usually runs rich anyways if your using the chart outta the box.

Be careful... your scaring me.

Im using the stock 02 sensor setting on the micro.....it gives the voltage,then I look at the chart to see where it is. What is considered lean in a nitrous app? I'm used to a 11.7 on my old srt4. At wot N/A it's a 12.8 from Vector...which is a .800 reading on the micro. I've been on a dyno before the nitrous..so I know it was a 12.8. Now the micro is showing the same thing off the bottle. With the 51/31 jets that NOS says is a 100 shot...the reading stays the same....so I went bigger on the fuel to get it to around a 12.2...so is that still lean with nitrous? When I sprayed the fuel,without the bottle..it didn't get rich enough to wash the rings or anything.

[MGM GT]

Im using the stock 02 sensor setting on the micro.....it gives the voltage,then I look at the chart to see where it is. What is considered lean in a nitrous app? I'm used to a 11.7 on my old srt4. At wot N/A it's a 12.8 from Vector...which is a .800 reading on the micro. I've been on a dyno before the nitrous..so I know it was a 12.8. Now the micro is showing the same thing off the bottle. With the 51/31 jets that NOS says is a 100 shot...the reading stays the same....so I went bigger on the fuel to get it to around a 12.2...so is that still lean with nitrous? When I sprayed the fuel,without the bottle..it didn't get rich enough to wash the rings or anything.

The stock oxygen sensor wont work... its narrowband.

[Nick@HSW]

I bought a NOS plate system off a local and ordered the Microedge and the custom switch plate from HSW. So I was in Birmingham last tuesday getting the edge/switch installed...I have no patience for this part. We hit the road,first test the system with bottle off..goes rich. Then turn the bottle on...ping,ping...sounds like a 1980's diesal. Go back to the shop..check everything..so I load the vector nitrous tune again. Go back out....no ping but a little lean...about a 12.8....but it runs good. Of course I have a small leak at the bottle/gauge connections. I order new fittings and step up from a 31 fuel to a 33 fuel jet.
Parts come in New Years eve....get it installed. Go out to look for victoms. I'm now a little low on pressure(600 with the heater). During the night..the backlighting goes out on the edge..can't see the readout. Well the nights a wash...no one to run. I email Hsw on New Years day....I'll be damned...I get a response....I have to send the unit back for warranty. Today..I get the bottle filled...go out try it. It's set to come on at 3100...at 3100~ I get a stumble,followed by a loud backfire...then nose up/ass down,get up and go. Any ideas what the stumble thing is? Now tonight the backlighting starts working again...confused on sending it back. I like the features on the edge.

The day after the ping thing...I pulled the plugs...the last 2 on the drivers side...looked rough....the ground strap looked like it had tried to melt, kinda had what looked like a drop of metal welded to it. I replaced them...I repulled them tonight..they have a few of those 'pepper' sprinkled marks on them. I'm around a 12.1 -12.3 now. Should I go even bigger on the fuel jet? Running a 51 nitrous/ 33 fuel jet now....
Damn....I think I got carpal tunnel now...

Just so I have this straight, you're running the NOS plate, microedge, and our switchpanel? Is it a full NOS system or parts from different suppliers?

Did you have the car on the dyno at all with a wideband at any point or is this all being done on the street w/ narrowband reference? With that jetting I would be somewhat surprised if the a/f reading is accurate. Do the plugs show otherwise when you looked at them after a wot pull?

How much timing are your running? What spark plugs are in there?

I am going to take a stab in the dark here and bet that if 1 ground is iffy (backlight on microedge), then I'd go over every single ground in the system like Charlie mentioned. Did you set up the settings on the microedge or did someone else do it for you? Any idea what features are being used?

Get bottle pressure up to 950 or whatever NOS recommends and don't spray above or below it. If testing the system, follow the instructions in the MicroEDGE instruction sheet. No need to close the bottle and dump fuel down the motor.

We'll get you on the right path, don't worry and don't be scared.

Nick

[13 QTR]

Just so I have this straight, you're running the NOS plate, microedge, and our switchpanel? Is it a full NOS system or parts from different suppliers?

Did you have the car on the dyno at all with a wideband at any point or is this all being done on the street w/ narrowband reference? With that jetting I would be somewhat surprised if the a/f reading is accurate. Do the plugs show otherwise when you looked at them after a wot pull?

How much timing are your running? What spark plugs are in there?

I am going to take a stab in the dark here and bet that if 1 ground is iffy (backlight on microedge), then I'd go over every single ground in the system like Charlie mentioned. Did you set up the settings on the microedge or did someone else do it for you? Any idea what features are being used?

Get bottle pressure up to 950 or whatever NOS recommends and don't spray above or below it. If testing the system, follow the instructions in the MicroEDGE instruction sheet. No need to close the bottle and dump fuel down the motor.

We'll get you on the right path, don't worry and don't be scared.

Nick

It's a full NOS system...just using the edge and switch plate to compliment it.
I set up the edge......I stated last night...that the backlighting started working again....didn't do anything to it.
My set up......set to come on at 3k..shutoff at 6150. Tps trigger is at 4.55volts,set to positive,and on mid sensitivity. TR6 plugs gapped at .40. They look good now...just a few pepper sprinkles on the last 2 on drivers side. No idea on the timing...got Vector's nitrous tune.
I am heading to the dyno in a couple hours....so we'll see about the afr.

[r33pwrd]

can you run in "manually" without the microedge first? personally I hate doing multiple components at once as it make trouble shooting much harder to do.

[-Ray-]

It's a full NOS system...just using the edge and switch plate to compliment it.
I set up the edge......I stated last night...that the backlighting started working again....didn't do anything to it.
My set up......set to come on at 3k..shutoff at 6150. Tps trigger is at 4.55volts,set to positive,and on mid sensitivity. TR6 plugs gapped at .40. They look good now...just a few pepper sprinkles on the last 2 on drivers side. No idea on the timing...got Vector's nitrous tune.
I am heading to the dyno in a couple hours....so we'll see about the afr.

Call Kirk, he'll let you know what timing he programmed.

[r33pwrd]

What gear and speed where you at when you tried it?

[jaxredg8]

If everything is set up properly and working, the micro-edge is awesome. Like I said, it monitors everything. I have set to come on at 3000k and shut off at 6200. It doesnt come on in first gear at all (something about over 550 ftlb of tq hitting the tires from a dead stop that street tires or slicks dont like!). Let us know what happens on the dyno 13. I for one am curious! Good luck!

[13 QTR]

Well...back from the dyno....and the mystery gets bigger/weirder. Earlier...I stated that I bumped the fuel jet up. NOS..says 51nitro jet/31 fuel jet for a 100 shot. I put in a 33 fuel jet to richen it up.
Get to the dyno..I first wanted a N/A run...to see what I lost on the nitrous tune N/A. Down from 352 to a 327whp/337wtq.
Turn on the edge.... the operator shut it down at 5k....it was running a 14.1 afr....lean as shit. That backfire at activation....was a lean spike that pegged the graph out at 21 afr. NOW the numbers.....492whp/550wtq......on a 100 shot. That equals a 165whp increase over N/A.

I've checked the pills 5 times....51/33....yea,there in the right lines.
I've decided to go way down on the nitrous pill,instead of upping the fuel. So what size nitro pill.....say a 46? I want 450whp....but SAFE.
How can the NOS sheet be that way off on the pill size vs. size shot?

[MGM GT]

Well...back from the dyno....and the mystery gets bigger/weirder. Earlier...I stated that I bumped the fuel jet up. NOS..says 51nitro jet/31 fuel jet for a 100 shot. I put in a 33 fuel jet to richen it up.
Get to the dyno..I first wanted a N/A run...to see what I lost on the nitrous tune N/A. Down from 352 to a 327whp/337wtq.
Turn on the edge.... the operator shut it down at 5k....it was running a 14.1 afr....lean as shit. That backfire at activation....was a lean spike that pegged the graph out at 21 afr. NOW the numbers.....492whp/550wtq......on a 100 shot. That equals a 165whp increase over N/A.

I've checked the pills 5 times....51/33....yea,there in the right lines.
I've decided to go way down on the nitrous pill,instead of upping the fuel. So what size nitro pill.....say a 46? I want 450whp....but SAFE.
How can the NOS sheet be that way off on the pill size vs. size shot?

What bottle pressure you running on the dyno? Did you use fresh plugs and check them?

Assume you have cats with the mids... that will throw off the readings if they just stuck it in the tailpipe to measure.

Do you have any other pills? Sometimes a batch is less calibrated then another. Either way I would back it down to a .46 and try again after you double check everything.

[13 QTR]

What bottle pressure you running on the dyno? Did you use fresh plugs and check them?

Assume you have cats with the mids... that will throw off the readings if they just stuck it in the tailpipe to measure.

Do you have any other pills? Sometimes a batch is less calibrated then another. Either way I would back it down to a .46 and try again after you double check everything.

bottle pressure was just 850...the bottle was pretty hot. I hope my gauge is right. Plugs were pretty fresh...checked afterward. THe dyno guy said something about all the carbon being burned off.
Yea...in the tailpipe....we couldn't get the damn O2's out to put in a wideband sensor. No other pills right now.

[MGM GT]

bottle pressure was just 850...the bottle was pretty hot. I hope my gauge is right. Plugs were pretty fresh...checked afterward. THe dyno guy said something about all the carbon being burned off.
Yea...in the tailpipe....we couldn't get the damn O2's out to put in a wideband sensor. No other pills right now.

Well if your gauge is off your bottle pressure could be high which would lead to a little more power in addition to being a bit lean could add up to what you got.

Having the O2 reading after the cat will show a bit leaner then what it really is.

[13 QTR]

Well if your gauge is off your bottle pressure could be high which would lead to a little more power in addition to being a bit lean could add up to what you got.

Having the O2 reading after the cat will show a bit leaner then what it really is.

what is the pressure of a full bottle? Yesterday...right after having it filled...it showed around 600 when I hooked it up....it was cold at that time.

[13 QTR]

Here's a crappy video I took. the first pull is N/A,the second is the spray one. You hear the system kick on,then it getting shut down early.
http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd280/13qtr/?action=view&current=g8dyno.flv

[GRRRR8]

Drop it to a 47 jet. My guess is that jet has been drilled, but even saying that, if you calculate 100 HP a 47/26 would be about average. My guess is it will be pretty fat(rich) once you drop to a 47, BUT deal with that for 1 run and then drop a jet size until you get down to 12.2.

Like they say "lean is mean", as you can see from your HP/TQ, BUT you have cheated death now so its time to do it right.

If you have headers and cats and the tailpipe says 12.4 its closer to 12.2 as the cats are cleaning it up.

Also bottle pressure at 950!!!! If you doubt the gauge get a new one.......its cheaper then a motor.

[MGM GT]

what is the pressure of a full bottle? Yesterday...right after having it filled...it showed around 600 when I hooked it up....it was cold at that time.

Really depends on ambient air temp... nice day a full bottle could be 900-1000 but could easily drop to 700 in the cold.

You said it was pretty hot... if thats with it full I bet your pressure was high.

Are you using a bottle heater?

[13 QTR]

Drop it to a 47 jet. My guess is that jet has been drilled, but even saying that, if you calculate 100 HP a 47/26 would be about average. My guess is it will be pretty fat(rich) once you drop to a 47, BUT deal with that for 1 run and then drop a jet size until you get down to 12.2.

Like they say "lean is mean", as you can see from your HP/TQ, BUT you have cheated death now so its time to do it right.

If you have headers and cats and the tailpipe says 12.4 its closer to 12.2 as the cats are cleaning it up.

Also bottle pressure at 950!!!! If you doubt the gauge get a new one.......its cheaper then a motor.

You saying put in a 47nitro and 26 fuel? I have a 31 and 33 fuel...was gonna stay with the 33 and work the nitro jet to make it right.
Going from a 51 to a 47 is pretty big....right? Just can't see where there settings are so far off.
I did like those numbers thou.....felt like I could take out 'ole wreck'....:woohoo:

[13 QTR]

Really depends on ambient air temp... nice day a full bottle could be 900-1000 but could easily drop to 700 in the cold.

You said it was pretty hot... if thats with it full I bet your pressure was high.

Are you using a bottle heater?

yea ....i got a heater

[GRRRR8]

You saying put in a 47nitro and 26 fuel? I have a 31 and 33 fuel...was gonna stay with the 33 and work the nitro jet to make it right.
Going from a 51 to a 47 is pretty big....right? Just can't see where there settings are so far off.
I did like those numbers thou.....felt like I could take out 'ole wreck'....:woohoo:

No, thats just what a jet calculator says. :)

Here is how I jet my systems: Using a .047 jet for N20 - .047 x 33% = .031 That is a VERY safe way to do it.

[13 QTR]

No, thats just what a jet calculator says. :)

Here is how I jet my systems: Using a .047 jet for N20 - .047 x 33% = .031 That is a VERY safe way to do it.

ok...I'm trying to keep from buying every damn jet to get it right. I just want 450whp...maybe 460,and be safe. If it hasn't blown yet....450 would hold all day....

[GRRRR8]

ok...I'm trying to keep from buying every damn jet to get it right. I just want 450whp...maybe 460,and be safe. If it hasn't blown yet....450 would hold all day....

I would buy a .047, .048 and a .032, .030 That way you have it covered for fine tuning.

[13 QTR]

I would buy a .047, .048 and a .032, .030 That way you have it covered for fine tuning.

Alright.
I'm also gonna send the edge back.....the backlighting went out again. Works one day and not the next.....

[13 QTR]

May have figured it out....I think my pressure gauge is WAY off. I had it refilled today and I asked what pressure it was at after it was filled. He said it was at 1500...and the bottle was pretty warm at that time. I hooked it up in the car and it only showed 900....that's 600 off. So if it's off that much...I was running 1400psi yesterday on the dyno. Would that much pressure cause a 100 shot,to be a 170 shot?
I just checked it...it's cold and showing around 600....it's 32 degrees here.

[MGM GT]

May have figured it out....I think my pressure gauge is WAY off. I had it refilled today and I asked what pressure it was at after it was filled. He said it was at 1500...and the bottle was pretty warm at that time. I hooked it up in the car and it only showed 900....that's 600 off. So if it's off that much...I was running 1400psi yesterday on the dyno. Would that much pressure cause a 100 shot,to be a 170 shot?
I just checked it...it's cold and showing around 600....it's 32 degrees here.

Goddamn! Yes that will cause you to gain more power and go lean. What brand gauge is it?

[13 QTR]

Goddamn! Yes that will cause you to gain more power and go lean. What brand gauge is it?

It's a summit brand...bought it when I bought some fittings.
Should've known that with it being $25 and the NOS ones being $60+....

[jaxredg8]

Damn, thats alot of pressure!! Mine is around 1100 with a full warm bottle. But I bought every thing from Harris. Good luck with everything!

[Johnnystock]

Every full bottles I had were around 1200-1300, whatever the temp was...bingo!! I would not spray over 1000psi.

You asked what is rich or lean...my AF is sitting at 11-11.5 and its the way to go I was told.

Good thing you didnt blow your engine!!! Lucky, damned pressure gauge!!

[09gtt]

Ur a little late...the engine did blow. I don't know if he ever figured out why.

[polo]

Good thing you didnt blow your engine!!! Lucky, damned pressure gauge!!


Ur a little late...the engine did blow. I don't know if he ever figured out why.

:rofl:

[13 QTR]

:rofl:

that shit ain't funny.

We have a idea.... short version.....hit rev limiter...nitrous stayed on,puddled up in #8,when it fired again.....boom....destroying everything.

The other 7 pistons...besides the indentions of the valves hitting them....looked good.

We can close this now......it hurts to read it...