working on 3" dual exhaust

[parish8]

time for some exhaust. i still have a lot of work to do but i did get a good start on it. duel 3", going to tie the wg's in back a ways instead of right at the turbo outlet. i think those 3" oval tips will look sweet. can't wait to hit up the dyno and see what this does for me vs the stock set up.

http://neufamily.org/images/g8gallery/images/g8%20150.jpg

http://neufamily.org/images/g8gallery/images/g8%20151.jpg

http://neufamily.org/images/g8gallery/images/g8%20154.jpg

http://neufamily.org/images/g8gallery/images/g8%20155.jpg

[GRRRR8]

Those tips are sweet! Who makes them? I need to get a set for yet another set of mufflers. :hang:

[parish8]

i got them from summit, magnaflow i think. seems like they were $100 each:wacko:

had to have them.

[GRRRR8]

i got them from summit, magnaflow i think. seems like they were $100 each:wacko:

had to have them.


Whats nice isnt cheap and whats cheap isnt nice.

PM me/post a part # if you dont mind.

[parish8]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-35171/

[El.Diablos.G8]

Group buy for Parish8 Exhaust...First 20 people get a 20% discount
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LOL...J/k Not for real.....

[GRRRR8]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-35171/

Thank You!!

[Bretz56]

Group buy for Parish8 Exhaust...First 20 people get a 20% discount
1.El.Diablos.G8(Paid)
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LOL...J/k Not for real.....

No kidding!! Looks sweet, put me on the list,lol!!

[G8GT721]

looks good, what mufflers will you be using

[MGM GT]

Very nice! Could easily free up 40whp.

[parish8]

looks good, what mufflers will you be using

those magnaflows in the pic. they are a strait thru design. hope it isn't too loud.

on other turbo set ups i have used these and it wasn't too loud.

[parish8]

Very nice! Could easily free up 40whp.

i agree and hope so.

i need to get this exhaust done. i have injectors, cam with dod delete stuff and a converter ready to go in next but i want to get the exhaust done and dynoed first.

[1of1828]

I've read that a 3" exhaust system is much too large for the G8. What is your reasoning for going with this setup? Care to share your thoughts? Happy Holidays!

[parish8]

I've read that a 3" exhaust system is much too large for the G8. What is your reasoning for going with this setup? Care to share your thoughts? Happy Holidays!

you cant go too big with turbos.

even with a heads and cam set up i would go 3". 3" isn't that big.

[MGM GT]

I've read that a 3" exhaust system is much too large for the G8. What is your reasoning for going with this setup? Care to share your thoughts? Happy Holidays!

On a stock car its overkill and probably wouldn't gain anything over a 2.5" except noise. However with turbos no exhaust is the best exhaust, so the closer you get to that the better.

[parish8]

woohoo. not ready to drive but i did get to fire it up today. DEEEEP. you feel it in your chest:D , the tone gets me all happy inside.

just off idle it quiets up and holding it at a steady 2000rpm it isn't loud at all. giving it a free rev sounds like heaven. i am not sure but i think i can hear the turbos spining down after a free rev.

i am not blown away with how those tips look. with the rounded rear bumper the staggered stock quad tips worked pretty well. i think it will look good from behind but when you are right next to it the tips do not look as good as stock.

i still need hangers and o2 bungs. if it is overly loud i might cut in a h pipe. then at some point i will need to tie in the wg's but i think i will take it for a spin without that to see how loud it is open.

[parish8]

got the exhaust done. too much snow to drive it. i am happy with the way it turned out. deep but not loud. free rev sounds killer. putting some 60b injectors to put in the then back to the dyno.

going to try it with the same amount of meth as before and then turn off the meth to see if we can tune it and not run into knock. before we had a hard time at 5psi not getting into knock. then added meth and that took care of things.

http://neufamily.org/images/g8gallery/index_2.htm

http://neufamily.org/images/g8gallery/images/g8%20156.jpg

http://neufamily.org/images/g8gallery/images/g8%20165.jpg

http://neufamily.org/images/g8gallery/images/g8%20170.jpg

[MGM GT]

Nice! Clean wastegate install.

[GeorgeInNePa]

I didn't see any posts about your wheels. What are those? 18x10?

[parish8]

17x9.5. plan is to try some 295's on there but i am a little short on cash so that project is going to have to wait.

[Blackrider]

Are those sweet sweet V bands I see on the turbo-exhaust connection?

[parish8]

all vbands. all stainless.

[Ktlplxm]

On a stock car its overkill and probably wouldn't gain anything over a 2.5" except noise. However with turbos no exhaust is the best exhaust, so the closer you get to that the better.

On a stock car you're right, there is no real gain in going from a 2.5 to a 3.0. The engines just aren't big enough to need much more.
Hopefully he gains something off of it. Unbolting my entire exhaust and running straight headers, didn't produce 10-15 rwhp at peak hp. Thats taking into account my cubes and all. Kinda glad though, that means I can keep my nice quiet Corsa with cats and not lose enough to care. About the only thing in the exhasut that really costs hp are the cats.

[Blackrider]

all vbands. all stainless.

Solid, Vbands are awesome.

[parish8]

actualy it isn't 100% stainless. the vband clamp kits are from summit and are $43 each. the clamp is stainless but the flanges are just steel and do get a little rusty after some time. kinda sucks.

the good clamp kits are more like $75. 100% stainless and they have a little extra material to keep them perfectly lined up.

[parish8]

On a stock car you're right, there is no real gain in going from a 2.5 to a 3.0. The engines just aren't big enough to need much more.
Hopefully he gains something off of it. Unbolting my entire exhaust and running straight headers, didn't produce 10-15 rwhp at peak hp. Thats taking into account my cubes and all. Kinda glad though, that means I can keep my nice quiet Corsa with cats and not lose enough to care. About the only thing in the exhasut that really costs hp are the cats.

if i only pick up 10-15hp i will be disappointed. i have a ton of time building that exhaust and a lot of money. i want it quiet. i have done the cut out trick before and that gets old and the tune changes when you open it up.

that corsa might have been helping you. i was running the stock mufflers still.

i am also hoping for quicker spool time.

[Ktlplxm]

if i only pick up 10-15hp i will be disappointed. i have a ton of time building that exhaust and a lot of money. i want it quiet. i have done the cut out trick before and that gets old and the tune changes when you open it up.

that corsa might have been helping you. i was running the stock mufflers still.

i am also hoping for quicker spool time.

Exhaust is one of those things I see as one of the most important things on the car. I refuse to have any noticeable drone, hum, or buzz coming from the car while I'm driving; that's why I was so happy with the Corsa. I've been through easily 12-13 different combinations on my car alone trying to find the ideal sound. Thankfully turbos act like a muffler in regards to the drone dismissal. I had the Kooks 1, Kooks 2, Magnaflow, Flowmaster, Borla, and Corsa dB mufflers all on my vehicle with the Kooks LTH, HFC, and Xpipe feeding them. There were lots of sound differences, but very little hp gains across the board, even when compared to the stock mufflers. Needless to say I was extremely disappointed. My current set -up uses 2.5" HFC's, a full Corsa system with the resonators and mufflers, is virtually silent while driving (in the car), and cost very, very little power. I sincerely hope the exhaust nets you higher gains.

[parish8]

got to go for a drive today. streets are a mess but i did find one street i could go wot on as long as i left it in 3rd gear.

idle it is deep but not too loud at all. 60mph cruse is quiet. 70mph and the drone sets in. it is about the same as the stock exhaust with the washer mod. wot is quiet and deep. i completely love that sound. engine sounds like a lazy big block but it is pulling hard. boost comes on very quickly. 4psi seems instant.

without dyno numbers i cant say if or how much it has gained. i have been driving around in my 528 for too long so of course it feels fast. looking at the log my injectors are at 100% with the meth running 100%. this is at 9psi. before same boost and meth on full i was at 75%dc but it was 30deg warmer then so it all doesn't mean much.

i am going to put the 60lb injectors in that i have had laying around and then hit up the dyno.

[Top Speed]

Very nice work.

[616 of 933]

Nice work

[parish8]

thanks tom at c&s dynoshop. this car is running hard!

before 477rwhp/504rwtq

after 563rwhp/575rwtq

thats 86hp and 71tq by dumping the stock exhaust and going with the dual 3". boost is the same, a/f still low 11's, meth still on full. that is with an extra 2deg of timing at 16deg now. the previous run was at 14deg and gave us 552hp, 14deg is what the timing we ran with stock exhaust.

http://neufamily.org/images/g8gallery/images/563hp.jpg

next plan is to run it to the local dynojet and see what kind of numbers we see there. then as some point toss in this cam i have had laying around.

[616 of 933]

thats a big jump. Whats next

[rmcrom]

Got any sound clips?

[parish8]

Got any sound clips?

sounds very much like it did before with the washer mod. slightly more drone right at 70mph but not bad. you can talk normally still. i will get some video when i hit up the dynojet.

[MGM GT]

thanks tom at c&s dynoshop. this car is running hard!

before 477rwhp/504rwtq

after 563rwhp/575rwtq

thats 86hp and 71tq by dumping the stock exhaust and going with the dual 3". boost is the same, a/f still low 11's, meth still on full. that is with an extra 2deg of timing at 16deg now. the previous run was at 14deg and gave us 552hp, 14deg is what the timing we ran with stock exhaust.

next plan is to run it to the local dynojet and see what kind of numbers we see there. then as some point toss in this cam i have had laying around.

Awesome! I threw out the 40hp gain because that's what I gained on a single... go figure you have two and made double that! Good work!

[Patrick G]

Big gains Jim. So how long 'til you start the internal mods?

[parish8]

Big gains Jim. So how long 'til you start the internal mods?

not sure. i want to hit up a dynojet with my current set up and get some "good" numbers. i am also waiting on a converter. i have a slight knock and from what i read it is often the oil pump so i need to get one of those on hand too.

maybe in a couple of weeks. since i am doing a converter i am going to just pull the engine and do the cam stuff on a stand.

all that said i am looking to copy my set up for others so if anyone wants me to copy what i have i will put the next round of mods on hold.

[parish8]

hey patrick. you seem to know a ton about everything.

we had to scale some stuff to program for 60lb injectors(actual flow more like 73lbs). we couldn't use the actual flow numbers so we halved them and then scaled the timing tables, maf table and some other tables. on the timing we scaled the gm/cyl axis. it seems to work great but the tranny is weird.

we scaled the ft/lbs by 1/2 on all of the pressure tables. it isn't right and i wont nail it thru a shift till the part throttle feels right.

have you been thru this procedure? any suggestions?

[Ktlplxm]

Great gains. Glad it worked out better for you than it did for the rest of us. So, you did add the 60lb injectors as well this time?

[parish8]

Great gains. Glad it worked out better for you than it did for the rest of us. So, you did add the 60lb injectors as well this time?

yes. got the 60's in there now.

[Patrick G]

hey patrick. you seem to know a ton about everything.

we had to scale some stuff to program for 60lb injectors(actual flow more like 73lbs). we couldn't use the actual flow numbers so we halved them and then scaled the timing tables, maf table and some other tables. on the timing we scaled the gm/cyl axis. it seems to work great but the tranny is weird.

we scaled the ft/lbs by 1/2 on all of the pressure tables. it isn't right and i wont nail it thru a shift till the part throttle feels right.

have you been thru this procedure? any suggestions?I typically will not half the tables. I will only reduce them by the amount needed. If the table maxes at 60 lbs and I have a 73 lb injector, I will reduce the affected tables by 60/73 = 82.2%. This way, you have higher resolution of all your tables.

Now on to the trans tuning. If you halfed your airflow and timing tables, you'll need to increase your pressure tables on your trans (not decrease). For example, if your trans would perform a part throttle shift at .48 gr/cyl when it was stock, it is now performing it at .24/gr/cyl. Your calculated load is lower at .24 gr/cyl than .48 gr/cyl so the trans would now command a lower pressure. In actuality, your pressure requirements are the same, so you need to make the pressure at .24 gr/cyl, the same as it was a .48 gr/cyl. There are hundreds of tables that are affected when you change the scale. Only scaling them by the amount needed helps you out in case you miss one.

[parish8]

I typically will not half the tables. I will only reduce them by the amount needed. If the table maxes at 60 lbs and I have a 73 lb injector, I will reduce the affected tables by 60/73 = 82.2%. This way, you have higher resolution of all your tables.

Now on to the trans tuning. If you halfed your airflow and timing tables, you'll need to increase your pressure tables on your trans (not decrease). For example, if your trans would perform a part throttle shift at .48 gr/cyl when it was stock, it is now performing it at .24/gr/cyl. Your calculated load is lower at .24 gr/cyl than .48 gr/cyl so the trans would now command a lower pressure. In actuality, your pressure requirements are the same, so you need to make the pressure at .24 gr/cyl, the same as it was a .48 gr/cyl. There are hundreds of tables that are affected when you change the scale. Only scaling them by the amount needed helps you out in case you miss one.

the trans tables are in ft/lbs. i dont know how that is calculated. we cut the ft/lb axis numbers in half. before at 442ft/lbs it went to 220psi. now at 221ft/lbs it goes to 220psi. seems like a corection in the right direction but 1/2 airflow probably doesn't equal 1/2 tq.

we could have scaled less but these things are all ready at 70% with no cam and a ton of meth. if we scale more than needed i should be able to slap a larger injector in there and just have to change the one table.

[parish8]

going to hit up the local dynojet in a couple of days. anyone want to guess on numbers with the same tune.

[The_Brute]

I still want that ride when it's all done!

[parish8]

I still want that ride when it's all done!

it will never be "done".

[rmcrom]

I bet that exhaust gives it a nice grrrrowl.

[parish8]

I bet that exhaust gives it a nice grrrrowl.

yeah but quieter than you probably think. you can hear the turbos cutting the air a little when you get on it. i love that sound.

[GRRRR8]

it will never be "done".

I thought it was just me!

[G8GT721]

there is always the little things you want/will do so your both correct. it is never done

[parish8]

there is always the little things you want/will do so your both correct. it is never done

yeah, little. like cam, converter, driveshaft, built tranny.....

[Posidon42]

if you haven't gone to the dyno yet, let me know when you are heading over. I would love to see this beast run in person.

[Darkside]

you cant go too big with turbos.

even with a heads and cam set up i would go 3". 3" isn't that big.

I lost power on my H/C setup with a 3" dual setup.

Congrats on picking up good power!

[parish8]

I lost power on my H/C setup with a 3" dual setup.

Congrats on picking up good power!

i would bet there are issues going on. muffler selection? cf on the dynbo? tuning changes....

i have done more than one back to back dyno pulls/gtechs/track runs switching between ok exhaust and no exhaust and i always picked up power with less exhaust.

i see people talk about needing some back pressure and loosing tq with too open of exhaust. i see it all the time. i just done buy it, it is not my experience and not the experience of anyone else i know where i have been present for the back to back exhaust change.

by back to back i am talking about a quick change like a cut out or just un hooking the exhaust at the end of the headers.

[Ktlplxm]

I lost power on my H/C setup with a 3" dual setup.

Congrats on picking up good power!

I don't think you should have lost power going to a 3", but you shouldn't have picked anything up it from it either. NA engines just do not require that much exhaust. People believing they need more exhaust than they do is unfortunately all too common. Unless you have either huge cubes, or larger FI, more than a dual 2.5 just isn't necessary

[Darkside]

Same tuner(Vector), same dyno, same conditions. A small restriction was added onto the exhaust after the collectors and the car picked up hp/tq, no other changes. It doesn't matter to me, I just want the car to run to its potential.

[parish8]

next round of mods are in. dyno next week sometime i hope.

patrickG spec non dod cam, valve springs, push rods, oil pump, timing chain tentioner, msd boost a pump, CircleD 9.5" tripple disk, tranny cooler.

the car had a significant piston slap sounding noise. i was hoping it was the oil pump. it does seem a little quieter but i need to get it nice and warm to know for sure.

with the back wheels off the ground i was able to get to 2000rpm with just the brakes so it seems decenty loose but at the same time i can move it around the garage at 700rpm.

boost a pump was really easy to install. everything is easy to get too with the battery in the back of the car and the stock pump wires right under the back seat. i did a check on that unit. at 0psi of boost it is at 14volts, 3psi=17v, 6psi=19volt, 9psi=21volts, the unit i got is not adjustable but the setting seems just right. the fuel pressure went from 62psi up to 72psi while idleing with the bap at 21volts.

i dont know if i will get it tuned to 10psi this time. with the hopes of it not breaking anything for a little while i might just turn it up till it sees 600rwhp. enjoy that setting for a little while. maybe it wont break... for awhile.

dyno next week :)

[Patrick G]

Look forward to seeing your results Jim!

[G8GT721]

keep us posted!

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

with the hopes of it not breaking anything for a little while i might just turn it up till it sees 600rwhp.

You mean down... :cool2: You sure as hell won't need 10 psi to hit 600rwhp now. :cheers:

[parish8]

You mean down... :cool2: You sure as hell won't need 10 psi to hit 600rwhp now. :cheers:

you know what i meant. start on the spring wich is 5psi or so, then add boost till we see 600rwhp. who knows, we might turn it up to 10psi just to get some good data but then turn it back down before i leave.

[Thrasher]

So, do you all think that a 3" exhaust is too big for only a slightly modded car with an OTR, ported TB and intake and LT's and a good tune? Who knows, after reading some of Patrick G's posts last night my next step after that may be a DOD cam. OH BOY, I'm not going to be able to stop am I!?!?:facepalm:

[Ktlplxm]

Definitely too large for a NA engine

[2ltrgsr]

2.5 is good for n/a

[Thrasher]

2.5" it is or will be, Thanks guys! I would have paid more for the 3" and gotten less performance out of it and not known any different. Well, I guess until I posted it up all proud like and was told I made a mistake.

[1slow01Z71]

So when are you going to start making turbo kits for the G8? We're looking at getting one of these for the wife and of course it could use some more power :devil:

[Ktlplxm]

He's already said he would be interested, it may be located in either this thread or another by Parish8

[1slow01Z71]

Yeah I first saw his kit over on performancetrucks where we started, and Ive been researching the G8s a bit more. In his other thread he never mentioned how much he'd want for one without tuning or install, Ill do that myself.

Just wondering more than anything since we dont even have the car yet.

[parish8]

i can make anything you want. price would depend on exactly what you wanted me to do and what parts we used. i priced a complete installed tuned kit for $11k but that was with full exhaust, injectors, wideband, tuning, dyno time, 1200hp worth of turbo, oil system.......

get rid of the tuning, injectors, dyno time,wideband. would drop that more than $1500. get rid of the the full 3" exhaust would drop the price a ton but remember i gained a lot of power with the exhaust.