Kenne Bell for g8

[wreckwriter]

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=999210

maybe someone with an account there could invite this guy here to tell us about it?

[norm8332]

I'm still wanting a blower, I'm glad to see their will be a more of a choice now.

[GRRRR8]

If I did a blower KB would be the choice.

[Art708]

From what I read it's not a KB product, they just start with one KB part and build on it.

[GRRRR8]

As long as the blower itself is KB thats all I care.

[incon3037r]

Hey everyone the KB is still a go. My car will be used for the mock up and will hopefully be @ TPE this week.

[-Ray-]

Thanks for posting up. Please keep us informed.

[99-LS1-SS]

I sent Jeff an invite to this forum. Hopefully he'll take me up on it.

[GeorgeInNePa]

I sent Jeff an invite to this forum. Hopefully he'll take me up on it.

An invite??????????????????

What? You think you're Charlie, now?


:bleh:




:poke:

[GRRRR8]

An invite??????????????????

What? You think you're Charlie, now?


:bleh:




:poke:

LMAO!!!! I guess that will be my fault too!

[Chewy]

LMAO!!!! I guess that will be my fault too!

EVERYTHING is your fault Charlie!

Dog get's pregnant...


CHARLIE!!!!

[East TX muscle cars]

the G8 kit is almost ready to go!

[MtbDoc]

Oh, great...for those of us getting jerked in different directions, THANKS A LOT!


GRRRRR8 news

[BlownG8GT]

Pics of the mystery kit?

[East TX muscle cars]

Sure i will get you a couple of pis of it. Let me get Jeff to email me a few and ill post them up! its not much different that the GTO kit though, but ill get you a few ASAP!

[It's A G8!]

Do you have an estimate on the actual price of the unit?

[TexasG8]

I have my credit card ready

[GRRRR8]

I have my credit card ready

You havent melted that yet Rusty? lol

[TexasG8]

No it is just smoking. :bm: I just payed for a trip to Cozumel for me and my wife. I have been holding off on the maggie but I can't wait much longer so this kit needs to come out sooooooooooooon.

[East TX muscle cars]

No it is just smoking. :bm: I just payed for a trip to Cozumel for me and my wife. I have been holding off on the maggie but I can't wait much longer so this kit needs to come out sooooooooooooon.

ACTUALLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY i need a G* here to do the first G8 that gets DYNO pulls and that we can take a few pics pf the whole install......... you interested? the one that the kit was fabed up on and made from was a mock up car. The kit is finished , with the exception of a few little things like inventory of the boxes and labeling all the packaging. we are doing a C6/gto, and looking for a G8 to do all at the same time in the next week or two, while Jeff(the guy who made the kit) is here at our shop!!!:woohoo:

[TexasG8]

Email me with all the details: Rusty003@msn.com

1. How long will you need the car?
2. What all is in the Kit?
3. How much is the kit?
4. What will I need to supply?
5. etc.

[East TX muscle cars]

can do, give me a day or so to get that all to you!

[G8GT721]

somebody better go so we can get some pics and #'s

[East TX muscle cars]

somebody better go so we can get some pics and #'s

we will do this no matter what, but we are really wanting one when the other two kits are going on so we can take all the install pics and make the INSTRUCTION books all at the same time. the car we use will be the FIRST, it will be the one that will be in all the product pis for this unit!!!:)

[MtbDoc]

500 miles from Birmingham...hmmmmm...

Details, details, details!

[It's A G8!]

What kind of discount are we talking about? :hmm: PM me please!

[TexasG8]

Will it look like this..................

http://usera.imagecave.com/Slow6/GeneralPictures407.jpg

http://usera.imagecave.com/Slow6/GeneralPictures406.jpg

[East TX muscle cars]

yep like that.......

no discount really guys just get to have your car as the first running one on the street. and the one that all the pics will be taken of..........

[TexasG8]

Will the kit include:
1.Tune
2. Bigger Injectors
3. Boost pump
4. AA FMIC or WA IC

[99-LS1-SS]

If there is a chance at getting a significant discount on a KB setup I'll drive the 1000 miles or so if you want a manual transmission GXP mule!

[East TX muscle cars]

Will the kit include:
1.Tune
2. Bigger Injectors
3. Boost pump
4. AA FMIC or WA IC

1. no
2.yes
3.yes

[Last_ResorT_G8]

About time!!

[Mr. Sandog]

Will the kit include:
1.Tune


1. no

That's unfortunate. Why not?

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

That's unfortunate. Why not?



It is not a bad thing that they do not include a tune. The tunes found in supercharger kits are usually so dumbed down it is unbelievable. This is done because of safety and liability reasons due to every vehicle being slightly different than another.

When going with forced induction you will always want to get a full custom tune for your car so that everything it recalibrated properly.

[Featherburner]

It is not a bad thing that they do not include a tune. The tunes found in supercharger kits are usually so dumbed down it is unbelievable. This is done because of safety and liability reasons due to every vehicle being slightly different than another.

When going with forced induction you will always want to get a full custom tune for your car so that everything it recalibrated properly.

Everything you said about the tune is true but, if it came with a tune, even if it left a lot on the table, they could apply for CARB certification. This kit would appeal to a whole lot more people with certification. Then they could have a custom tune once they had that all important CARB number. :)

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Everything you said about the tune is true but, if it came with a tune, even if it left a lot on the table, they could apply for CARB certification. This kit would appeal to a whole lot more people with certification. Then they could have a custom tune once they had that all important CARB number. :)


Those CARB cert's aren't that important. People will do what they want to do regardless of the cert a system has.

[BlownG8GT]

Those CARB cert's aren't that important. People will do what they want to do regardless of the cert a system has.

Might not be important to you....Others would disagree.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Might not be important to you....Others would disagree.



I wasn't talking about my personal opinion there. Most people will violate CARB and general emissions standards when modifying their cars anyways. A system not offering a tune is not that big a deal and is a pretty common occurance. With that said, I don't expect you to remain neutral in this matter because you sort of have a "dog in this fight" due to your association with Magnacharger. Nothing against you but I will call it like I see it.

[-Ray-]

There are people who care about carb cert even if they don't work for an after market company. I think Brian should be allowed to post his opinion weather it be personal or professional.
Calif. has always had a tendency to care about those certs.

[G8GXP4now]

The website lists HPtuners custom tuning as a service, so does that mean that tuning is available for an extra charge? Has the pricing been announced yet on the kit?

[East TX muscle cars]

The website lists HPtuners custom tuning as a service, so does that mean that tuning is available for an extra charge? Has the pricing been announced yet on the kit?

we do IN HOUSE custom tuning VIA street/wideband/dyno. so yes if it was done here we can.

[incon3037r]

Went over to Jeff's shop to have my Lovells Slam It Kit installed so figured we would also take a teaser pic of some other installations for all the nay sayers.

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq125/incon3037r/GT%20photos/1238707094347.jpg

[It's A G8!]

Does this come with an air intake tube?

[incon3037r]

Does this come with an air intake tube?

Of course it does, this is just a photo that we took this morning during initial install.

[It's A G8!]

Cool!!! When will you have any dyno #?

[Ktlplxm]

Which KB blower are you utilizing? Will the big boys be available for those of us needing them? If a 5.0 mod motor can handle it, we better be able to!! haha

[GeorgeInNePa]

Which KB blower are you utilizing? Will the big boys be available for those of us needing them? If a 5.0 mod motor can handle it, we better be able to!! haha

From the original thread over on LS1Tech:


Like any high end system, it will be offered in 2 different blower sizes. The base system is a 2.6L high output blower capable to over 750rwhp/750rwtq. The "Big Bore" 2.8H system is designed for 400+ cid motors, that are trying to push 1000+rwhp..

Our target, is a 525-550rwhp/500+rwtq out of the box system on a bone stock car. With a cam swap and headers, were seeing 600rwhp, 550rwtq.

The BEST part of all is price.. Although this is NOT set in stone, we are attempting to keep the complete system in the $6,000 dollar range COMPLETE.
Unlike the 3000+ dollar upgrade on the maggie, the upgrade from the 2.6 to 2.8H will be right around 500 bucks.

[incon3037r]

Cool!!! When will you have any dyno #?
Hopefully in a couple weeks.


Which KB blower are you utilizing? Will the big boys be available for those of us needing them? If a 5.0 mod motor can handle it, we better be able to!! haha
It's a 2.8 in the picture, but I'll be running a 2.6 for now. I've been told by Jeff that the 2.6 is perfect for the 6.0 and would only run the 2.8 if going 408ci or bigger. If I choose to later upgrade from the 2.6 to the 2.8 it will be really cheap to do so.

[Devilish34]

EVERYTHING is your fault Charlie!

Dog get's pregnant...


CHARLIE!!!!

What if the cats gets knocked?

[VegasNate]

We gotta meet up soon. I'm excited to see all your new mods.

[incon3037r]

We gotta meet up soon. I'm excited to see all your new mods.

definitely. I still have to go over to your spot to get everything blacked out. It's getting lowered today too.

[ThugHunter]

I thought plans for a G8 KB blower was scraped....great to see that's not true. I'd choose a KB if the price is similar to a Maggie.

[-Ray-]

I thought plans for a G8 KB blower was scraped....great to see that's not true. I'd choose a KB if the price is similar to a Maggie.

KB isn't doing the work. Someone else has been fabbing up the KB for the G8. For the last 8 months or so.

[incon3037r]

KB isn't doing the work. Someone else has been fabbing up the KB for the G8. For the last 8 months or so.

That is correct. Total Performance Engineering is producing the kit.

[ThugHunter]

KB isn't doing the work. Someone else has been fabbing up the KB for the G8. For the last 8 months or so.


That is correct. Total Performance Engineering is producing the kit.

Got it:thumbsup:

[incon3037r]

Originally Posted by LasT_ResorT_G8
So the kenne is still a go???

Oringinally Posted by incon3037R
It never stopped. Jeff from TPE had to deal with opening a new shop along with other numerous things and it got pushed back. Some people got impatient and bent out of shape and started saying it wasn't going to happen since he never posted any updates.

Oringinally Posted by Total Perf Eng
You are absolutely correct. It NEVER stopped. I just honestly got sick and tired of all of the naysayers pounding their chest saying it was never gonna happen. So we decided to go silent until we really had the time to deal with it.

Its just like the GTO kit (The kit that is DONE) Unfortunately, we havent had time to do a trial fit. So we sidelined it until we could concentrate on making sure it was consistant across all vehicles.

The G8 kit, is a BREEZE in comparrison.

Yes, the hood closes.. Yes, the 2.6 and 2.8 both fit..

But for the guys who jump on threads and say "It'll never happen, I wont hold my breath" We have found those are the people who come up with 982 excuses why they cant buy something when it becomes available anyways. Its the guys who sit back patiently, and makes sure the company is making the system PERFECT before release, that buys the system when it becomes available..

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/AMERICAN_HP/Customers%20Cars/GeneralPictures115.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/AMERICAN_HP/Customers%20Cars/GeneralPictures112.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/AMERICAN_HP/Customers%20Cars/GeneralPictures113.jpg

Oringinally Posted by Total Perf Eng
The kit is moving wayyyyyyyy faster than expected. We are planning on shop installs very very soon.

We only have 1 problem as of right now. Our lower manifolds are only a very very low production item as of right now. Basically, were having the manifolds made on an as needed basis. This means the machine shop is charging us almost 1700 bucks for the manifold itself. We are in the middle of tooling for the "Production" manifold, but that could take another 60-90 days.

But if someone is DEAD SET on a kit, we could schedule an install for this month. OR, if they have a set of cathedral port heads, we already have the production manifold in stock.

BTW, the blower you see is the LARGEST blower we make.. So obviously, you can see it fits..

[incon3037r]

do yourself a favor ,do some checking on ls1gto and get a lil background on tpe........i was promised a kit since november ....BEWARE

Do checking on what? I see Jeff on a regular basis. Oh wait he just sent me a text to tell me he'll be at the shop later. I guess living in Vegas has it's perks.

I'm also a member on LS1GTO and all I've heard is a bunch of griping from everyone. If the kit came out 6 months ago all the people who are complaining and saying bad things about Jeff and TPE probably wouldn't even have purchased one. I see it all the time, doesn't matter if it's a single turbo setup or screw setup. It's always the same thing when my income taxes come I'm gonna do this or that, if it's cheaper than a Maggie or APS then I'm in etc....Oh wait let me take that back, your kit sucks because everyone else says so. This coming from a bunch of people who haven't even seen the kit. When the kit does come out lets see how many people change their attitude or how many people will actually step up and purchase one. The other members like myself who've been patient and don't complain will see an end product thats great.

As for a promised kit, I don't know anything about it. However the photos posted above are of my car from 2 days ago.

Just to let this be known, I don't work for Jeff or TPE I'm just a customer, but all the trash talking is starting get old and childish. Just because someone wants to make sure his product is superior and refuses to release it to the masses until perfect in his eyes is not wrong, but for some reason everyone else thinks other wise. If anyone has a problem with what I've written then take it up with me not Jeff.

[-Ray-]

This is Grrrr8.net, not another board. There's been no trash talking of this KB build over here that I'm aware of.
Whatever happened somewhere else, leave it there.
There's nothing to beware of either. Until I see this running on someones car, it's still just a build up.

[MtbDoc]

I am curious about 500rwhp on a stock car. Obviously injectors and boost-a-pump will be needed, but it sounds like the stock exhaust is simply too restrictive. I suppose that ENOUGH air can be forced down its throat. The blower maps for the TVS1900 clearly will move MORE than enough air for a comfortable 5-600rwhp, but trying to do it through the stock exhaust may be a different matter. OTOH, it would be interesting to see what would happen if someone simply dialed up the boost on the Maggie with stock exhaust. This KB kit will be in the same situation.

I was interested in the KB option but it really did look like it fizzled out from the GTO community. I realize that this is a very small operation. Well, the more the merrier. Bring more FEAR of the Holdens in America!

[norm8332]

I'm going to try the 3.2" pulley with the stock exhaust and I will be monitoring KR to see if there is an issue. Maybe the 3.1 depending on the results of the 3.2.

[Ktlplxm]

Just remember that more boost isn't always more power. Better, safer hp numbers can be made by moving the same amount of air with less restriction, ie heads, cam, headers, exhaust. That holds true to either power-adder.

[norm8332]

Just remember that more boost isn't always more power. Better, safer hp numbers can be made by moving the same amount of air with less restriction, ie heads, cam, headers, exhaust. That holds true to either power-adder.

I plan on getting headers in the end, but I have these pulleys so I'm going to do some testing myself and offer all of the results to other members.

I will see what incremental combos are available with the 1900 this way. Plus since it hasn't been publicly disclosed as to exactly why the pulley size in the stock kit was increased to 3.3" and the injectors deleted.

On topic: That KB looks real nice! If it wasn't for me wanting to keep the engine's internals stock, I'd be all over that!

[Ktlplxm]

I've always been interested in a KB set-up, and as anyone can tell from my build list I'm not just one of those that ends up backing out for some small reason in the end. I am however concerned with the price of the kit, and that will be my deciding factor in the situation.

[MtbDoc]

Just remember that more boost isn't always more power. Better, safer hp numbers can be made by moving the same amount of air with less restriction, ie heads, cam, headers, exhaust. That holds true to either power-adder.

But is IS about airflow, so WITHIN REASON simply pushing a little harder with the blower vs making it easier to get in via the cam isn't really any different. Look at the turbo cars that can make a TON of power off of a stock cam. OTOH, this car has a crappy cam and the DOD stuff, so you are really helping yourself there. But I LOVE the stock cam in my GTO. The LS2 will idle in 3rd gear in traffic, using a little bit of brake when crawling along at 5mph and then cleanly pulling away when it's time.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

But is IS about airflow, so WITHIN REASON simply pushing a little harder with the blower vs making it easier to get in via the cam isn't really any different. Look at the turbo cars that can make a TON of power off of a stock cam. OTOH, this car has a crappy cam and the DOD stuff, so you are really helping yourself there. But I LOVE the stock cam in my GTO. The LS2 will idle in 3rd gear in traffic, using a little bit of brake when crawling along at 5mph and then cleanly pulling away when it's time.



When looking at making maximum power and safety it is better to have less boost due to better airflow through the engine versus more boost due to less airflow through the engine. You may make a similar amount of horsepower but the combo that is not having to push as hard will see lower intake air temps which will lead to more power in the end; or a similar amount of power but with less chance of pre-ignition. Yes you can just turn the boost up and shove more airmass down an engines throat but your IAT's will also go up significantly too because you are compressing the air more to get to a given power level. That means that on a more serious combo you will end up having to use racegas sooner too. For most in here right now they are satisfied with streetable combo's on the stock bottom ends and stock transmissions. However, that will eventually change and people will want to know what approach will have the most advantage.

[Ktlplxm]

When looking at making maximum power and safety it is better to have less boost due to better airflow through the engine versus more boost due to less airflow through the engine. You may make a similar amount of horsepower but the combo that is not having to push as hard will see lower intake air temps which will lead to more power in the end; or a similar amount of power but with less chance of pre-ignition. Yes you can just turn the boost up and shove more airmass down an engines throat but your IAT's will also go up significantly too because you are compressing the air more to get to a given power level. That means that on a more serious combo you will end up having to use racegas sooner too. For most in here right now they are satisfied with streetable combo's on the stock bottom ends and stock transmissions. However, that will eventually change and people will want to know what approach will have the most advantage.

My point exactly..600hp worry free vs 600hp wondering when a gasket will go

[incon3037r]

My new badges that Jaison Tortorea and I came up with. They are the exact size and font of the stock emblems and will be installed once the KB supercharger is finally installed and completed. The black G8 emblem will replace the stock GT emblem and the black SUPERCHARGED 6.0 emblem will replace the stock PONTIAC G8 emblem.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b320/AMERICAN_HP/Customers%20Cars/GeneralPictures115.jpg

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq125/incon3037r/G8supercharged60006.jpg

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq125/incon3037r/G8supercharged60004.jpg

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq125/incon3037r/G8supercharged60005.jpg

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq125/incon3037r/G8supercharged60006.jpg

[2ltrgsr]

so any progress

[Slizzo]

So let me ask this question:

What would the main difference between a TVS1900 and the KB2.6L be? Or rather, what's the main difference between the two setups? (yeah, I know there's a difference in total power as well, but that can be attributed to the blower size correct? 1.9L vs. 2.6L?)

[Steve]

Or a related Q;
the 1900 (1.9L) is considered 'just right' and the 2300 (2.3) 'too big' for most without any forged internals ... how come KB has a 2.6 (and 2.8?) and that's considered 'ok'? not sure i quite follow that

[Ktlplxm]

Simple fact is you don't need that big, but it does allow for more potential power. Some times too big can be a hindrance. Its similar to an S or T trim Vortech, or a P1sc, D1sc, or F1. Sure everyone of them will produce 600hp, but the bigger ones can do it easier. I'm not 100% sure on the KB's but the step up ratio also has a lot to do with it (ie where the CFM fall in the RPM range). Its possible for a smaller one to make more bottom end if the big one is geared for higher RPM (especially if you turn the crap out of it like a lot of modulars do)

[Slizzo]

Simple fact is you don't need that big, but it does allow for more potential power. Some times too big can be a hindrance. Its similar to an S or T trim Vortech, or a P1sc, D1sc, or F1. Sure everyone of them will produce 600hp, but the bigger ones can do it easier. I'm not 100% sure on the KB's but the step up ratio also has a lot to do with it (ie where the CFM fall in the RPM range). Its possible for a smaller one to make more bottom end if the big one is geared for higher RPM (especially if you turn the crap out of it like a lot of modulars do)

So the only difference is the blower size between the KB and the TVS (Maggie)?

[BoostedToy]

So the only difference is the blower size between the KB and the TVS (Maggie)?

Absolutely not. Take a look in the latest *cough* MM&FF or 5.0 Mag about their GT500 blower shootout with the FRPP version of the TVS2300 vs. the 2.8 KB. It would be nice to see an equivalent blower size matched against each other. Of note, the 2.8 KB made damn near 200 rwhp more than the 2.3 TVS while eating up nearly 40 hp less in parasitic loss through pumping/mechanical loss.

[BlownG8GT]

Of note, the 2.8 KB made damn near 200 rwhp more than the 2.3 TVS while eating up nearly 40 hp less in parasitic loss through pumping/mechanical loss.

at the same boost levels? I call bullshit.

[Ktlplxm]

Absolutely not. Take a look in the latest *cough* MM&FF or 5.0 Mag about their GT500 blower shootout with the FRPP version of the TVS2300 vs. the 2.8 KB. It would be nice to see an equivalent blower size matched against each other. Of note, the 2.8 KB made damn near 200 rwhp more than the 2.3 TVS while eating up nearly 40 hp less in parasitic loss through pumping/mechanical loss.

Plus thats an additional .5 L displacement, thats almost like comparing a 1.8L and a 2.3L. The KB may be a little more efficient than the maggie, but not over 200hp at the same boost and CFM levels. With all things being equal engine-wise, if both are moving 1000cfm through the same engine, boost will be the same. If one is producing more boost through the same engine, then the cfm has been increased. Following that thought, if the boost is the same but one is moving more CFM than the other, then the restriction has been changed. If one were a Turbo with no parasitic loss, I could go along with it somewhat, but not on 2 root style blowers. I love the KB's to death but they aren't that much more efficient.

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

Plus thats an additional .5 L displacement, thats almost like comparing a 1.8L and a 2.3L. The KB may be a little more efficient than the maggie, but not over 200hp at the same boost and CFM levels. With all things being equal engine-wise, if both are moving 1000cfm through the same engine, boost will be the same. If one is producing more boost through the same engine, then the cfm has been increased. Following that thought, if the boost is the same but one is moving more CFM than the other, then the restriction has been changed. If one were a Turbo with no parasitic loss, I could go along with it somewhat, but not on 2 root style blowers. I love the KB's to death but they aren't that much more efficient.



You guys are making the cardinal mistake when trying to figure the differences out. You keep mentioning just CFM. CFM is just a measure of volume of air moving. That DOES NOT take into account the AIRMASS. AIRMASS takes into account not only air volume but also air density. Both are key here. Everyone knows about air volume so I won't bother talking about it, but air density is most affected by the blowers adiabatic efficiency (aka compressive thermal properties). Some compressors are more efficient than others with regards to this, and will thus play a large part in comparisons of this nature. If you have a blower than can move 10,000 cfm of air then it sounds cool, but if it also heats the air up to 1,000 degree's then it isn't exactly helping. In addition to that, that higher aircharge temperature (IAT or ACT) will become a big problem when trying to tune the combo later on, especially if that be on pump gas. Don't get stuck on the 10,000cfm and 1,000 degree figures, just throwing those inflated numbers out to make the point. They do not apply to any of the blowers in question here.

Also mechanical efficiency is something to take into more clear an account too. How much work does it take to move a given airmass (or volume since airmass can be computed in afterwards) into the engine. Some compressors may move a different amount of air in total but when you look at the figured and break them down in ratio to one another you see a different picture.

Also, remember that Kenne Bell (and Whipple) are not a roots blower, they are a twin screw blower. The TVS are a modified roots blower. Both the TVS and Kenne Bell are in the Positive Displacement Blower family but compress their aircharges in a very different manner.

It is not just a simple this blower is "bigger" this blower is "smaller" debate. Much more comes into affect when trying to understand which one will be best matched for a given combo. Being that very very few people actually are willing to take the time to crunch the numbers they will end up having to wait to just see the equation worked in the revers; which is a direct comparison of the end results after the blowers are installed, tuned, dyno'd, and tracked. I think that the TVS blowers have come a LONG way in development in the last few years. Going from a friggin heat pump to a pretty efficient blower option is not a small undertaking. I still think that the true twin screws such as the Kenne Bell or Whipple blowers, when fitted to the LSx engines, will make better power even in a street driven application.

[BlownG8GT]

You guys are making the cardinal mistake when trying to figure the differences out. You keep mentioning just CFM. CFM is just a measure of volume of air moving. That DOES NOT take into account the AIRMASS. AIRMASS takes into account not only air volume but also air density. Both are key here. Everyone knows about air volume so I won't bother talking about it, but air density is most affected by the blowers adiabatic efficiency (aka compressive thermal properties). Some compressors are more efficient than others with regards to this, and will thus play a large part in comparisons of this nature. If you have a blower than can move 10,000 cfm of air then it sounds cool, but if it also heats the air up to 1,000 degree's then it isn't exactly helping. In addition to that, that higher aircharge temperature (IAT or ACT) will become a big problem when trying to tune the combo later on, especially if that be on pump gas. Don't get stuck on the 10,000cfm and 1,000 degree figures, just throwing those inflated numbers out to make the point. They do not apply to any of the blowers in question here.

Also mechanical efficiency is something to take into more clear an account too. How much work does it take to move a given airmass (or volume since airmass can be computed in afterwards) into the engine. Some compressors may move a different amount of air in total but when you look at the figured and break them down in ratio to one another you see a different picture.

Also, remember that Kenne Bell (and Whipple) are not a roots blower, they are a twin screw blower. The TVS are a modified roots blower. Both the TVS and Kenne Bell are in the Positive Displacement Blower family but compress their aircharges in a very different manner.

It is not just a simple this blower is "bigger" this blower is "smaller" debate. Much more comes into affect when trying to understand which one will be best matched for a given combo. Being that very very few people actually are willing to take the time to crunch the numbers they will end up having to wait to just see the equation worked in the revers; which is a direct comparison of the end results after the blowers are installed, tuned, dyno'd, and tracked. I think that the TVS blowers have come a LONG way in development in the last few years. Going from a friggin heat pump to a pretty efficient blower option is not a small undertaking. I still think that the true twin screws such as the Kenne Bell or Whipple blowers, when fitted to the LSx engines, will make better power even in a street driven application.

That being said, you obviuously know that at screw is a true compressor....and being a true compressor it is ALWAYS PUMPING....and if it is always pumping....it is ALWAYS making heat. I say it time and time again, the ONLY thing a screw has on a Magna Charger is its bigger....for now.

[Mike P]

So are these Kenne Bell 2.6 & 2.8 ready for sale, or still in the development stage?

[Ktlplxm]

You guys are making the cardinal mistake when trying to figure the differences out. You keep mentioning just CFM. CFM is just a measure of volume of air moving. That DOES NOT take into account the AIRMASS. AIRMASS takes into account not only air volume but also air density. Both are key here. Everyone knows about air volume so I won't bother talking about it, but air density is most affected by the blowers adiabatic efficiency (aka compressive thermal properties). Some compressors are more efficient than others with regards to this, and will thus play a large part in comparisons of this nature. If you have a blower than can move 10,000 cfm of air then it sounds cool, but if it also heats the air up to 1,000 degree's then it isn't exactly helping. In addition to that, that higher aircharge temperature (IAT or ACT) will become a big problem when trying to tune the combo later on, especially if that be on pump gas. Don't get stuck on the 10,000cfm and 1,000 degree figures, just throwing those inflated numbers out to make the point. They do not apply to any of the blowers in question here.

Also mechanical efficiency is something to take into more clear an account too. How much work does it take to move a given airmass (or volume since airmass can be computed in afterwards) into the engine. Some compressors may move a different amount of air in total but when you look at the figured and break them down in ratio to one another you see a different picture.

Also, remember that Kenne Bell (and Whipple) are not a roots blower, they are a twin screw blower. The TVS are a modified roots blower. Both the TVS and Kenne Bell are in the Positive Displacement Blower family but compress their aircharges in a very different manner.

It is not just a simple this blower is "bigger" this blower is "smaller" debate. Much more comes into affect when trying to understand which one will be best matched for a given combo. Being that very very few people actually are willing to take the time to crunch the numbers they will end up having to wait to just see the equation worked in the revers; which is a direct comparison of the end results after the blowers are installed, tuned, dyno'd, and tracked. I think that the TVS blowers have come a LONG way in development in the last few years. Going from a friggin heat pump to a pretty efficient blower option is not a small undertaking. I still think that the true twin screws such as the Kenne Bell or Whipple blowers, when fitted to the LSx engines, will make better power even in a street driven application.

Its not where we made the "cardinal mistake" its just that when trying to explain adiabatic efficiency to most people, they get lost, not to mention that the standard for measuring adiabatic efficiency is often contest considering it was primarily influenced by one supercharger company who, of course, ended up as the high man on the totem. I was just trying to relate in simple terms, why the 200hp surplus just wasn't feasible when comparing apples to apples. Of course, air density, inlet/outlet scrolling, inlet position, filter placement, housing materials, belt slippage, air quality, fuel quality, base tune, in house tune, custom tune, etc, etc, etc all come into play. There are so many variables who can say what makes the biggest influential differences? As I've said previously, I prefer the Kenne Bells over the Maggies, I just don't feel its fair for people to sometimes put forth unfair comparisons, and those who haven't been around long enough to realize it make a decision based upon those examples. lol

But I think deep down even KB realizes size DOES matter, otherwise they wouldn't make their Mammoth line hahaha I can't wait for someone to make a base for these so I can get one

[Robert@KBXPerformance]

But I think deep down even KB realizes size DOES matter, otherwise they wouldn't make their Mammoth line hahaha I can't wait for someone to make a base for these so I can get one



Shoot put a KB 2.8H w/ Mammoth intake on your 427 and that thing will make 1,000 at the tires without issue if you have the right cam for it.

[Ktlplxm]

Shoot put a KB 2.8H w/ Mammoth intake on your 427 and that thing will make 1,000 at the tires without issue if you have the right cam for it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but camshaft will always hold me back. I'd like to get the big blower, or even a decent sized turbo, but I will not put a noticeable cam in my car again. That the only reason I don't have over 500 whp now is I run a TINY, TINY camshaft. Once I change cams, stall converters will become necessary then I'll hate the car lol. I'd be happy with approx 650-700 whp with little to no noise out the exhaust at idle and no more than a 2000 stall max. Annoying I know, but I like things I can drive to the beach and not know its modded unless I press the pedal...

[Ktlplxm]

Has anyone heard anything else on this kit lately?

[incon3037r]

This was posted by Jeff today on the other forum.

Total_Perf_Eng
Damn, I need to sign on here more.

I havent gotten into the habbit of checking this board, so I get way too delayyed.

We are currently only working on the 2.6 and 2.8H kits.
We have scheduled the first install of both the G8 and GTO, so we will see what the demand for a smaller unit is. On the GTO, the space requirements are such that it could merit a smaller blower, but we do not like anything smaller than a 2.6. Anything smaller than that, and you have to spin the hell out of it, and all that does is cause additional heat.

"IF" we need to step down any, the absolute smallest we would go, is 2.3. And I wont do that unless I am ABSOLUTELY forced to. But that will ONLY be a base beginner kit, with somewhere around 550-600rwhprwhp max.

At this point, we have had no fitment issues on the G8, so I dont see the necessity. The GTO was a different story. Although no hood requirements, we did have to rebuild the lower manifold, and a few other things.

My car will be going in 3 weeks from now for one month for finalization of this kit. Hopefully everything goes well and the community will have a new option really soon.

[BlownG8GT]

Good luck!

[Ktlplxm]

but still no ballpark $$ figure?

[BlownG8GT]

Another thing you need to be careful of is C.A.R.B certification. I was reading he claims to have an EO number, however it was for a FORD.

[incon3037r]

Good luck!

Thanks.


but still no ballpark $$ figure?

I don't deal with pricing, that's all up to Jeff.

[incon3037r]

Another thing you need to be careful of is C.A.R.B certification. I was reading he claims to have an EO number, however it was for a FORD.

One thing I've learned from this forum is that you can never 100% believe everything you hear or read. But thanks for looking out anyway it's appreciated.

[BlownG8GT]

One thing I've learned from this forum is that you can never 100% believe everything you hear or read. But thanks for looking out anyway it's appreciated.

10-4. Jeff spends allot of time discrediting others on sites such as the Corvette forum. I have only the best intentions at heart, I would hate to see anyone spend any money on something and have issues. be it a Magna Charger or a KB set up, the facts should be known.

[incon3037r]

I've never been on the Corvette forums, but I'm sure it's no different then the G8 and GTO forums there always gonna be someone saying something bad about someone else. I go to Jeff's shop at least once a week and just went two days ago. I've seen the work he's done first hand and the types of vehicles he works on. He's already worked on my car as well as install all my suspension components and everything came out perfect, so I think I'll be fine.

[incon3037r]

In my personal opinion you guys make a great product and it looks nice on the G8's. I'm not in the business of bashing other people, but will defend if I think whats being said is wrong. I'm only working with Jeff so another FI option can be available for our community. Nothing more nothing less.

[Ktlplxm]

Well ask jeff to check a few emails for me. I've sent a few but have never heard back. The kit looks great but some type of round about figure would be nice. As for as CARB I couldnt possible care less. Not going to California, and do not have mandatory emissions inspections here. I'm adamant about a ball park figure because I would hate to continue waiting for another few months just to find out the kit is WAY more than the Turbo or Maggie systems out on the market.

[incon3037r]

Well ask jeff to check a few emails for me. I've sent a few but have never heard back. The kit looks great but some type of round about figure would be nice. As for as CARB I couldnt possible care less. Not going to California, and do not have mandatory emissions inspections here. I'm adamant about a ball park figure because I would hate to continue waiting for another few months just to find out the kit is WAY more than the Turbo or Maggie systems out on the market.

What are your emails labeled under? Give me this information and I'll either text him or go by the shop monday and ask him. I will not disturb him today since it's mothers day.

[BlownG8GT]

I am serious when I say good luck.....I am sure you are in good hands.

[incon3037r]

Thanks man... Never doubted you. Soon there will be my KB supercharged G8 and Vegas Nates Magna Charged G8 terrorizing the streets of Las Vegas in Forced Induction harmony. Good times, regardless of who manufactured what.

[VegasNate]

I met a Henderson Firefighter who has a Procharged G8. We should get em all lined up and see who is the King G8 of Vegas! After the Maggie, I might have like 20 bucks to bet on it. LOL

[deputycrawford]

I have a quick question. What blower do I want for a daily driver. I mean the only car I drive in the summer? If the KB is always compressing then do I want something that has a blow off valve?

[incon3037r]

I met a Henderson Firefighter who has a Procharged G8. We should get em all lined up and see who is the King G8 of Vegas! After the Maggie, I might have like 20 bucks to bet on it. LOL

That sounds like a plan I'm always game. You already have ahead of the game with the cam, catback, heads ,intake and tune. I need to catch up!!! We're currently planning to swap in a forged 418 with slightly ported and polished stock heads then turning the boost up, but this will be after all the testing has been done on the stock motor.


I have a quick question. What blower do I want for a daily driver. I mean the only car I drive in the summer? If the KB is always compressing then do I want something that has a blow off valve?

It's all preference and what type of power delivery you want. I love all force induction. I'm sure that most roots and twin screw superchargers come with bypass valves.

[incon3037r]

I met a Henderson Firefighter who has a Procharged G8. We should get em all lined up and see who is the King G8 of Vegas! After the Maggie, I might have like 20 bucks to bet on it. LOL

Hey Nate how come all of the G8's that are going forced induction are out of Henderson! Maybe there some sleeper G8's hiding out in Vegas.

[VegasNate]

It is possible. The guy I met doesn't really come on these boards so maybe there are others out there too. You would think they would show up at the track though.

[Ktlplxm]

Finally got a response back from ETM...no plans for a G8 KB kit... back to the drawing board.