buying torque converter need some HELP

[vic2186]

ok im interested in getting a torque converter but i want to ask a couple questions..

what does it mean when you flash a converter??

is daily drivability really affected??

any brands good for our g8?? im leaning towards FTI or circle d??

guys with converters how do you stage at the track??if you have a 3600 stall will the car let you footbrake that high??or if you punch it off idle it jump to your stall speed??

let me know guys

[hondakiller]

I won't lie, I'm not certain what flashing is. I always took it to mean stalling it up on a launch or when cruising giving it gas to unlock it and the way the engine rpm goes way up compared to a stock stall but thats likely totally wrong.

Daily driving is affected by how big you go on the stall. Some people like it (I do) some don't. I LOVED my t/a with a pt4200 and a 4.10 rear. It was perfect. Taking off from a light normally, the engine was around 2200-2600rpm. Once it locked, behaved like stock. I averaged roughly about 15mpg in a 3500lb t/a. not bad for 420rwhp and the gear/stall combo. Most people get the misconception that the stall speed is where the engine will be all the time. It doesn't work like that.

The converter in my t/a was a yank and I loved it. I've heard good things about FTI and Circle D though. At the track, it's better to footbrake it and stall it up.

I'll say one mistake people make is going too small thinking the driveability will be worse than it is. Big stalled autos kick ass.

[Mike P]

ok im interested in getting a torque converter but i want to ask a couple questions..

what does it mean when you flash a converter?? - I think it's when you step on the gas pedal and the rpms "flash" and raise to the point where the car starts to move.


is daily drivability really affected?? Yes - I miss my stock TC feel for daily driving.....


any brands good for our g8?? im leaning towards FTI or circle d??


guys with converters how do you stage at the track??if you have a 3600 stall will the car let you footbrake that high??or if you punch it off idle it jump to your stall speed??

let me know guys




...

[mystic98ls1]

I just put a circle d in my car. Call chris and he will answer all you ?s. The right stall for someone else may not be the right one for you. Tell him what your plan is and he will give you some perfect options.

[Devilish34]

Call Chris at Circle D he'll set you up.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Circle -D is a board sponsor and a few of our Vendors also sell FTI.

I have a Yank 3200 in my car and I love it. It's a bit "tight", IOW, it drives like the converter has a bit less stall than it really does.

Charlie drove the car and agrees with me, it's a great converter for a daily driver.

[-Ray-]

ok im interested in getting a torque converter but i want to ask a couple questions..

what does it mean when you flash a converter??

Standing on the go pedal flashes the converter. That's all you have to do.

is daily drivability really affected??

Mine requires a little more pedal to get going if driving through town.

any brands good for our g8?? im leaning towards FTI or circle d??

I have a 3200 Circle D in mine. Dropped my 60 foot times by 2 tenths. Call Chris, he will walk you through all your questions and goals for your car. Then you can select the best stall speed for your application.

guys with converters how do you stage at the track??if you have a 3600 stall will the car let you footbrake that high??or if you punch it off idle it jump to your stall speed??

I've been flashing it at 2000 rpm's. I think. I pay too much attention to the lights. I wanna win. LOL

let me know guys

Comments placed in your post.

[WickedMom]

ok my turn!

Is a tune needed?

Going too small? maybe someday I might cam it... maybe a lil 1900 action. Not more than 475ish rwhp ultimately.

I was looking at the stage 1 circle D. I guess I will call chris tomorrow.

[jdeserio]

ok my turn!

Is a tune needed? yeah, it makes a world of a difference

Going too small? maybe someday I might cam it... maybe a lil 1900 action. Not more than 475ish rwhp ultimately.

I was looking at the stage 1 circle D. I guess I will call chris tomorrow. I really recommend FTI! i only lost about 10-15 hp in the drivetrain, but i have heard great things about circle d.
I love my 3200 stall, i would suggest if you want it to feel like-stock drivability, stick with something 3200 or less. 2800 maybe.

[WickedMom]

why do you lose HP?
But you gain acceleration? Faster ETs and MPHs I thought.

What actually changes with a converter? I am thinking that I want a 2800...from what I have read.
Also I do not want to tune...so is it worth it

[jdeserio]

why do you lose HP?
But you gain acceleration? Faster ETs and MPHs I thought.

What actually changes with a converter? I am thinking that I want a 2800...from what I have read.
Also I do not want to tune...so is it worth it

without the tune, I hate to say it..but its not worth it..your car will shift very strange and will not be very nice to drive daily..it will rape your gas mileage without a tune...even tho you lose a little power it is way worth it..

[Blackdevil77]

That's the only thing I hear about these converters that are turning me away. How they cause you to "loose" power. GT594(Paul) went from trapping 118 with the stock converter, to I believe 113 after he got the converter put in

[WickedMom]

i just dont understand it. My transmission is coming out soon to replace the seals for the flare. So for the cost of the converter I can have the mod. But I guess I can't since I really don't want to tune. (yet)

[GeorgeInNePa]

That's the only thing I hear about these converters that are turning me away. How they cause you to "loose" power. GT594(Paul) went from trapping 118 with the stock converter, to I believe 113 after he got the converter put in

:wacko:

He went from 12.30s to 12.ohs...

Devilish went from 12.30s to 11.8s...

Need I go on?

You don't "lose" hp, the chassis dyno just doesn't see it. Pull the engine, put it on an engine dyno, before and after your converter install. I can guarantee you don't lose any hp.

[GeorgeInNePa]

i just dont understand it. My transmission is coming out soon to replace the seals for the flare. So for the cost of the converter I can have the mod. But I guess I can't since I really don't want to tune. (yet)

Without adjustments to the TCM tune, you will run into the limiter on shifts, especially the 1-2.

[WickedMom]

In auto mode will it still shift like it should?

If I do NOT want to tune, should I not upgrade the stall?

[polo]

In auto mode will it still shift like it should?

If I do NOT want to tune, should I not upgrade the stall?

Just get the thing tuned and quit worrying about the warranty :)

[WickedMom]

I have come verrrrrry close. Several times, I just can't bring myself to do it.

[-Ray-]

i just dont understand it. My transmission is coming out soon to replace the seals for the flare. So for the cost of the converter I can have the mod. But I guess I can't since I really don't want to tune. (yet)

Tune it!

[Devilish34]

That's the only thing I hear about these converters that are turning me away. How they cause you to "loose" power. GT594(Paul) went from trapping 118 with the stock converter, to I believe 113 after he got the converter put in

I went from trapping 112 to high 116.

[Devilish34]

I have come verrrrrry close. Several times, I just can't bring myself to do it.

If you are DD ing your car tight 2600 and after a couple of days of blowing your tires off you'll learn how to drive it.

[fiveoh]

That's the only thing I hear about these converters that are turning me away. How they cause you to "loose" power. GT594(Paul) went from trapping 118 with the stock converter, to I believe 113 after he got the converter put in

I think the drop in mph has some to do with traction as well. Most of the guys switching to converters also get some sticky tires. Getting traction vs spinning usually lowers mph a little.

[-Ray-]

I think the drop in mph has some to do with traction as well. Most of the guys switching to converters also get some sticky tires. Getting traction vs spinning usually lowers mph a little.

^This

[jdeserio]

tune it!!!!!!

[Devilish34]

I think the drop in mph has some to do with traction as well. Most of the guys switching to converters also get some sticky tires. Getting traction vs spinning usually lowers mph a little.

I need stickier/taller tires

[WickedMom]

So. If I don't want to tune, I shouldnt replace the converter...

also, I thought about this, I spend a lot of time in the twisties... a stall would ruin that, wouldn't it...?

[-Ray-]

So. If I don't want to tune, I shouldnt replace the converter...

also, I thought about this, I spend a lot of time in the twisties... a stall would ruin that, wouldn't it...?

No, but a good tune will enhance sport mode. :)

[WickedMom]

alright. so I guess I leave it stock... sadness... but I really enjoy the canyons. So save the money on the converter and bite the tuning bullet.
(I am gonna buy a tuning ecm and tcm, leave my OEMs stock) Thats the only way I can do it, I think.

[edmanet]

I need stickier/taller tires

When you get your car back you can borrow my CCW drag pack....

[Blackdevil77]

:wacko:

He went from 12.30s to 12.ohs...

Devilish went from 12.30s to 11.8s...

Need I go on?

You don't "lose" hp, the chassis dyno just doesn't see it. Pull the engine, put it on an engine dyno, before and after your converter install. I can guarantee you don't lose any hp.

I didn't mean loose power in that regard. I ment loose rwhp. From what I've been told, the aftermarket converters are "less efficient" which is what causes that power loss on the dyno. The 1/4 times are better because of 60 foot. And from what paul said "the converter's eat up your high end."

Devilish sounds like he has the perfect converter for his mods. I want what he's got lol

[Blackdevil77]

I went from trapping 112 to high 116.

That is awsome! If my mph increases and I get better et's the way you did, I won't think twice. I may follow your path converter wise. What did you dyno at before the converter and do you know where your power comes in?

[Mike P]

In hindsight I probably should have went with a slightly smaller cam & a little less on the torque converter or no torque converter at all.....

Kinda more like John/Devilish34's set up......

223/231 cam & 3000 Circle D (or like a 2800).......



...

[GeorgeInNePa]

alright. so I guess I leave it stock... sadness... but I really enjoy the canyons. So save the money on the converter and bite the tuning bullet.
(I am gonna buy a tuning ecm and tcm, leave my OEMs stock) Thats the only way I can do it, I think.

The TCM is inside the trans. You have to drain it, drop the pan, and then unbolt the TCM.

[Devilish34]

That is awsome! If my mph increases and I get better et's the way you did, I won't think twice. I may follow your path converter wise. What did you dyno at before the converter and do you know where your power comes in?

Hp and tq in my sig are pre stall. My dyno sheet is posted here in my garage but my tg comes in around 3000 if I remember correct
BlackBerry8330/4.5.0.77 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105

[GeorgeInNePa]

I didn't mean loose power in that regard. I ment loose rwhp. From what I've been told, the aftermarket converters are "less efficient" which is what causes that power loss on the dyno. The 1/4 times are better because of 60 foot. And from what paul said "the converter's eat up your high end."

Devilish sounds like he has the perfect converter for his mods. I want what he's got lol

The hp and torque numbers don't mean anything if the car is slow.

;)

[GeorgeInNePa]

In hindsight I probably should have went with a slightly smaller cam & a little less on the torque converter or no torque converter at all.....

Kinda more like John/Devilish34's set up......

223/231 cam & 3000 Circle D (or like a 2800).......



...

If you would put sticky tires on there and get a 12.0 or 11.9 time slip, you'd be happy with your cam and converter.

;)

[Devilish34]

If you would put sticky tires on there and get a 12.0 or 11.9 time slip, you'd be happy with your cam and converter.

;)

Practice Practice Practice Snap

[vic2186]

Hey devilish wat was wrong with ur car afterall??u got it fixed??and what u stalled to when u got that 11.87 lol

[Circle-D]

If you guys ever have any questions about converters in general or about my converters, please email, call or PM me. I do get busy sometimes and get behind on my PM's but I do love to educate. The best is to get me on the phone where we can have a 2 way conversation and answer you Q's that way.

As most of you know, we have numerous options available for the G8. 258mm or 245mm and with numerous stall combinations. If you are looking for a great DD converter or all out performance, we can custom build you what ever you want.

I am also still honoring the sale price for board members. :)

713-895-8834

Chris

[Devilish34]

Hey devilish wat was wrong with ur car afterall??u got it fixed??and what u stalled to when u got that 11.87 lol

Flashed it of idle

pm sent

[Posidon42]

In hindsight I probably should have went with a slightly smaller cam & a little less on the torque converter or no torque converter at all.....

Kinda more like John/Devilish34's set up......

223/231 cam & 3000 Circle D (or like a 2800).......



...

Why? Will a converter help a tuned but otherwise stock car?

[Mike P]

If you would put sticky tires on there and get a 12.0 or 11.9 time slip, you'd be happy with your cam and converter.

;)



I'm still going to make it to the dragstrip (Lapeer, MI) one last time before the end of November, and hopefully I can get a PB.

With the MT ET Street Radials......



...

[WickedMom]

The TCM is inside the trans. You have to drain it, drop the pan, and then unbolt the TCM.

I know, and I know that's not THAT difficult.
I decided against a converter at this time. My hubby doesn't want me spending 1400.00 on the car. Converter + tune. So I'll just wait.

[MGM GT]

My hubby doesn't want me spending 1400.00 on the car. Converter + tune. So I'll just wait.

Now that's a new line! Usually its the other way around...

[vic2186]

i got my FTI converter on its way lets hope for 11s

[Devilish34]

i got my FTI converter on its way lets hope for 11s

DRs ????:poof:

[edmanet]

Flashed it of idle

pm sent

You giving away secrets. LMAO

[Devilish34]

You giving away secrets. LMAO

opps

I stalled it to 4000 then went on green ;)

[GeorgeInNePa]

You giving away secrets. LMAO

My car doesn't like flashing from idle.

[Blackdevil77]

i got my fti converter on its way lets hope for 11s

3000?

[Devilish34]

My car doesn't like flashing from idle.

Why? I don't go off of idle (750) I raise it to around 1k

[supercharger]

You don't lose HP with a stall converter, you lose drivetrain efficiency because there is more "slip" built into a higher stall converter. Most modern day autos employ a lock up clutch on the converter so that on the freeway, or any other time that your TC is locked, it is direct coupled with no slippage. What I'm not sure about is at what point the clutch locks when WOT. Under normal driving the clutch locks at about 45mph, at which point you have a direct coupled drivetrain with no power loss. Tuning the tranny for a higher stall converter includes fine tuning the lock/unlock points and some idle adjustments.

"Flash" stall is a little harder to explain. First of all, a 3200rpm converter does not need 3200rpm to move the car during regular driving. Under light throttle on level ground the car will start moving at well below the stall rating of the converter because there is little rolling resistance. OTOH, if you hold your foot against the brake, which causes major rolling resistance...then floor it the converter will slip or "flash" up to the higher stall rating and either spin the tires or stall against the engine. Mashing the gas with no brake will also "flash" the stall rpm higher because it takes a little time to get 2 tons moving.

There have been a lot of questions from new GT owners as to why their 360HP G8 can't smoke the tires from a standstill without torque braking. I think the biggest reason for that is the low stall rating of the stock converter. Think of it this way: If you are driving a manual tranny car and and dump the clutch with only 1000rpms on the engine you will likely buck forward and probably stall. Dump the clutch with 3200rpms and you will spin the tires. The stock converter on our cars has a pretty low stall rpm and there is not enough HP at say, 1400rpms to light the tires with no brake. Hit the gas with say a 3200rpm stall converter and it will "flash" or slip to 3000rpms or so and will have much more power available at that RPM to smoke the tires. Just look at a stock G8 GM SAE dyno graph (flywheel). At around 1400rpms it is making about 75hp...figure 55 or so to the rear wheels. At 3000rpms its making about 150 to the rear wheels. With a 3600rpm converter it'd be putting down about 210hp at stall.

That should be a pretty accurate description of how a stall converter works...but I make no promises :)

[GeorgeInNePa]

Why? I don't go off of idle (750) I raise it to around 1k

Stock cam, ;), idle is 650ish.

1000-1300 when the track isn't great worked good.

[vic2186]

FTi 3600 i have to utilize my power band and size of cam.. was going with the yank ss3600 because george"s car is awesome and his sixty foot is great but i wanted to try something diffrent..im going to try to get the same rim/tire geroge has but i cant find these fbody rims...the tires i can order from summit or whoever is running a good deal..george convince me with his car to get a converter and that rim package he got..he is a great guy and very smart with this shyt

[WickedMom]

I am sad to leave this thread. But I will drive myself crazy if I keep thinking about this.

[GeorgeInNePa]

FTi 3600 i have to utilize my power band and size of cam.. was going with the yank ss3600 because george"s car is awesome and his sixty foot is great but i wanted to try something diffrent..im going to try to get the same rim/tire geroge has but i cant find these fbody rims...the tires i can order from summit or whoever is running a good deal..george convince me with his car to get a converter and that rim package he got..he is a great guy and very smart with this shyt

I can sling the bullshit, can't I?

;)

I'm thinking about sending the converter back to Yank and having it re-stalled to 3600 over the winter...

[vic2186]

you should george i bet with the 3600 you will be 12.10 to 12.20s no problem and you have gotten use to drivena converter car so the real benefit will be your time slip!!!

[vic2186]

I am sad to leave this thread. But I will drive myself crazy if I keep thinking about this.

if its a converter you want get the smalest available..a tight 258mm 2800 circle d will net you great times and drive like stock..

[Rawyzf]

Lots of good info in this thread! Thanks guys/gal.

[Circle-D]

I am sad to leave this thread. But I will drive myself crazy if I keep thinking about this.

Are you sure?? I can build you a converter and will paint it bright pink.

Chris