Why is it that...

[GeoffA]

Why is it that the dealer I have my car at, now for over two weeks, wont fix it?

Answer- " we are waiting on the ZONE rep."


This sucks. A lot of people are having a 2-3 flare problem, and there is a TSB out on it, good you'll get yours fixed with little to no problem.

My car on the other hand is showing a 1-2 flare/over rev/slipping problem and a hard shift from 2-3.

I am stock with only LT headers exhaust and a CAI. So I call and ask for an update...

-Nothing yet, but you can pick up your car and drive it around.

No, I don't want to drive it when it's not right.

-We're still waiting on a zone rep to come out and drive it, but we're in between reps and we don't know when they'll be coming.

Is there a number I can call to get the rep out to look at it?

-No, customers can't call the zone reps

Can you guys call?

-No they come by schedule. The problem here is that we are getting a new rep, and we don't know when they'll be here.

How about I just pay to have it fixed now and they'll re-inburse me?

-No GM wont do that. Yada yada yada, I'll call you back on Monday and if there is no new news John (service MGR) wants you to pick up your car.

I don't want to drive it if it's not fixed...

-If you don't pick it up it'll be sitting and we wont be responsible for any damage to it...

... Now I'm thinking it's on their lot in their possession If it were to get damaged it would be your responsibility.


I Don't want to drive a car with a F-ed up tanny. So then I ask so if I can drive it now and you guys are saying I wont hurt it anymore, what if I'm driving around and the tranny completely fails, will you fix it then. And he says YES. WTF


Anyone know of any numbers to call? It's not the dealer, they were told by GM not to do anything to it until a rep drives it. The Service MGR already drove it and said it's not right, So GM pays Service MGRs to walk around the shop and can't trust their own employees to make a decision?

I'm STARTING to be PISSED...

[r33pwrd]

Well they know of the problem So I would pick it up... if it dies the next day well just hope they warranty it.

[Mlozano]

The reps going to show up and void your warranty. They are waiting for him to come down and look at your aftermarket parts. If it had something to do with the actual problem they would have your tranny taken apat waiting for the rep to come look at it. Since he said you can drive your car, they obviously haven't looked inside. Same thing happend to me, same mods (as far as they know). Waiting for a call from GM rep as i type. Start looking for a good lawyer.


The only difference is my car had this issue stock at 1000 miles and they repeadtly failed to fix it. So i have somewhat of an argument.

[GTPprix]

do you have a tune on the car?

[Night Train]

Shit this sucks man. I'd be PISSED too.

I don't know of anyone.

[Night Train]

do you have a tune on the car?

I hate to ask, but why do you ask?

[G8 GT V8]

I hate to ask, but why do you ask?

They could possibly try to say that the tune is causing the flare and refuse the repair under warranty.

[NYG8GT]

If you have a tune in it right now, youre fucked, no way around it.

Take your car dude, mines sitting at a dealer waiting for parts, trust me youre lucky they'll let you take it. They wont let me take mine because the ball joints are so bad :(

[Tempest2000]

I returned my tune to stock before I took it in. They said yup you have a 2-3 flare parts will be in next wed. and we will do the work then. This is at a chevy dealer and I have a lot of mods. They are a mod friendly dealer though. They install mods on cars there as well so they are pretty cool. Luckily the crappy pontiac dealer near my work shutdown and since its a mechanical failure the chevy dealer can take it.

My advice is if you DO have a tune pick it up and return the tune to stock ecm and tcm if you can. Less chance of them denying it.

[-Ray-]

My suggestion is to get your car out of there, return it to stock and drive it until it fails.

[Night Train]

So, do you all recommend that a person return the ECM/TCM to stock everytime you bring the car to the dealership even for basic maintenance?

[GeoffA]

The reps going to show up and void your warranty. They are waiting for him to come down and look at your aftermarket parts. If it had something to do with the actual problem they would have your tranny taken apat waiting for the rep to come look at it. Since he said you can drive your car, they obviously haven't looked inside. Same thing happend to me, same mods (as far as they know). Waiting for a call from GM rep as i type. Start looking for a good lawyer.


The only difference is my car had this issue stock at 1000 miles and they repeadtly failed to fix it. So i have somewhat of an argument.

They Service MGR drove the and commented on the exhaust and when I asked about it and the warranty he stated "The exhaust does not make the tranny shift, your fine." And I started to see it at 2400 miles on it, It has 2700 now.

I hope so...



do you have a tune on the car?

NO, the car has the Stock tune in it...

[GTPprix]

I hate to ask, but why do you ask?

Because typically when a DM is called its to make a decision that normally shouldnt even have to be made IE warranty with aftermarket parts ect.

[GeoffA]

Because typically when a DM is called its to make a decision that normally shouldnt even have to be made IE warranty with aftermarket parts ect.

Thats why I asked/said on the phone today that John (service mgr) already said there was a problem in the shift. Seeing when they looked through the database at the dealer they couldn't find anything on a 1-2 problem just a 2-3.

Service guy said that I'll either be getting a new tranny or a re-build to fix what is wrong but they were told not to do anything until a zone rep drives it...

[WickedMom]

I can confirm that there was just a bigggggg mix around of zone reps... GM consolidated the parts reps and the service reps.... moved the around a bunch and gave them HUGE territories.

As a result, the few I have talked to are not happy... Not happy reps rolls down to not happy responses and directions from the rep.

I don't know if the same situation is happening around the country, but my shop is in the same situation. We know the new guys name, but I have no idea who he is or how he is. It is pretty scary, I guess.

[polo]

Geoff, I think you'll be fine considering you have the stock tune. There's no reason for them to void your warranty with just headers and a CAI. Although, it wouldn't surprise me after seeing some of the other BS GM has been doing to people.

If they do try to deny your claim, I'll be pissed off for you! We have a customer who is a lawyer, and he specializes in cases involving people suing large companies. He says the bigger the company, the better. I'm going to talk to him to see what he thinks about all of these Magnuson-Moss Act violations by GM.

I'm just sick of hearing all these stories recently about how GM is screwing people over with their warranties. I mean, it's pretty obvious that your mods did not cause your transmission troubles. Hopefully they'll take care of it though.

[GeoffA]

Tomorrow at 9:00am Zone Rep will drive my G8. Looks like I get to call into work sick...

[polo]

Well, the fact that he wants to drive it should be good news. If they wanted to deny your claim, he would just look at your mods and probably wouldn't even take the time to drive it.

If possible, make sure you ride along with him. Otherwise they'll just claim there's nothing wrong with the car.

[GeoffA]

Well, the fact that he wants to drive it should be good news. If they wanted to deny your claim, he would just look at your mods and probably wouldn't even take the time to drive it.

If possible, make sure you ride along with him. Otherwise they'll just claim there's nothing wrong with the car.


I'll definitely be there in the car with them. I called in sick :puke:

[-Ray-]

Is it today? Good luck if it is.

[DewieJr]

Goodluck on this situation today....I hope they do you right!

[GM_Fan]

I'm kinda interested in hearing what the Rep says..good luck.

[GeoffA]

I'm kinda interested in hearing what the Rep says..good luck.

Well GOOD news and BAD news...

The REP didn't have much to say other than she did feel it a little. I was not allowed to go with them (her and the service mgr) for the ride. Why? I don't know? Maybe cause I had my boy with me, but I put the car seat in the G8 so it was already to go.

Got there a little before 9, the Rep was not there yet. Waited about 35 minutes and she showed up. I told her what my problem was, and even the Service Mgr told her the same cause he drove it three weeks ago. I also mentioned the TSB for the 2-3 (known issue) flare and the O-ring fix. Mentioned that I've done some research and it's not only 2-3 where the problem is, some have had a 4-5 problem and the new O-rings fixed it for them.

So She and the Service MGR take it out for a test drive. Hasn't been driven in three weeks mind you because it's been sitting at the dealership.

10 minutes go by and I see the car drive back into the lot. I'm waiting for them to say something to me but no one does and I don't see either of them walk in. So a couple more minutes goes by and I go walk to the service drive up area and see the two of them on their phones. No acknowledgment so I walk out back towards the service waiting area.

Service Manager walks out sees me and says she felt it to "a little only in sport" but "it's been sitting and wasn't at operating temp, she's on the phone with GM engineers now." So he tells me to go back and wait and I do.

It's now 10:30 and he comes to find me and brings me and my boy to his office. I got the feeling that I was in trouble... She still doesn't say too much, it's all the Service Mgr doing the talking. He's saying there are no codes and he only feels it in sport mode and he thinks it's a tuning issue. Possibly a new version is out (for GM) and or the engineers now know about it and will look into it and decide what to do. I am adamantly stating that I believe it to be an O-ring issue.

She, the Rep looks concerned and he doesn't want to hear it. He stats the they don't have another one to compare it to. I tell him he does, one ZEPCOMS car is there getting work done, and TWO they have a G8 GT sitting out front for sale. "oh I didn't know it was a 6 liter" he says. He then goes on to say well lets wait to hear back from GM because right now they don't want us to do anything AND I want your car off the lot because we wont be responsible for any damage. That pissed me off again but I bit my tongue because I am hoping they will fix it right if I stay calm.

I do reply about the TSB on the suspension that he said they would fix, and said you guys must have fixed the grey GT out front right?
he said yes... and mine?
when we get the parts in...
I Interupt stating a new TSB is out saying you can re-use the nut you were concerned about using Loc-tite. He says your right, the one time nut is now a "two time only."

I also mentioned my F-ed up paint to the REP possibly being covered by warranty and she looked confused and said lets tackle one at a time. I agreed and said I want my tranny fixed.

So... He goes on stating lets wait back from GM engineers now because we don't want to tear the tranny apart if it can be fixed with a tune. They are gonna want a print out copy of whats going on, I say lets do it, he says we have to wait. I tell him I can get the version thats in the car now to see if it was updated right by going in engineering mode and again he says lets not do anything till they call us back...

How long I asked the rep, she stated two days. I said well how about I pay for the new O-rings to be put in, and they both agreed that I would be wasting my money.

Basically I am no where further then where I started. I'm more confused because I'm getting the impression that the Service MGR doesn't want to help one minute and then reassures me that it'll be alright the next??? It seemed as though he was trying to "show off" to the REP, but I did my best to negate his comments so the REP knew he didn't know what he was talking about. He was almost textbook in Management material towards customer service but new little about the technical stuff...

The REP, she said she has two calls into GM on this and said She will call the MGR with an update.

So...:wacko:... I have no clue whats going on other then my car will be back in my garage later tonight with a bad tranny. Anybody want to take over my payments...

Looking more at RPM and Circle-D's 6L80 upgrades...

[zepcom]

Well GOOD news and BAD news...


Geoff,

I feel for ya man. True, my MGM GT was at that same dealership, and we passed by each other without even realizing it at the time!

The service manager guy was giving me bull$hit this morning as well, why does it take 2+ hours to mount 4 tires when they promised it would be done in one hour is beyond me...

Sucks that you were not able to show them the shift flare, and sounds like without letting the car warm up enough they didn't really want to diagnose it properly... as when the tranny gets up to "operating temp" it most surely will behave differently than when the car is still cold. Argh, this kinda $hit really bothers me.


Too bad you couldn't have come up with a small non-conspicious recorder/mike that could have been dropped under the seat to 'hear what they were really discussing' while on the test drive. Damn hindsight... :secret:

Well, be sure to update the thread when you hear back in a day or two. Sounds like they're trying to come up with an excuse for you. That service manager sucks too... I usually go to the other dealership further south on the same road (where I bought my car) for all my service, but this dealership is the one in the area that has the 'road force balance machine' to get my winter tires mounted and balanced. $60 complete for mount, RF balance, mount-on-car, tpms program all around, not a bad price. I love my new Michelin Xice2 winter tires that got mounted today, BTW.

Good luck bud, keep us posted!

--zepcom

and btw -- nice to passively meet you! :-)

[GeoffA]

LOL yeah I do remember you now, cause you went up to the showroom and were sitting in the corner and I did see you looking at the other MGM. I was going to walk up to you and tell you not to bother with it...

You know what I'm saying when I said he, the service mgr, was acting shady?

[who?me?]

can somone explain this flare to me? my car has a stock tune and exhuast but sometimes its has like a little delay and then a hard shift and sometimes I hear like a little thump, Is this it? my tahoe used to do this exact same thing, did it since new and drove it for 76k miles with no problems so I guess I was just used to it. IT mostly does it when driving at slow speeds like when it shifts slow but when im heavy footed it doesnt do it. I have 2500 miles by the way.

[polo]

There are a few things that seriously bother me about what happened.

First- they wouldn't let you ride in the car with them. That's BS.

Second- they didn't even let the car warm up! How do they expect to see how it truly acts unless they let it warm up?

Third- Them not wanting to keep it on their lot. It's their product, and it has a problem. They SHOULD be responsible for it until it's fixed, and they should give you a loaner vehicle until then.

Forth- Them not comparing it to the GT they had on the lot. My dealer test drove mine (with me), then drove one from the lot when I took mine in for delayed shifting/hesitation. The one on the lot did the same thing, so there was nothing they could do.

Fifth- Why didn't they just hook your car up to the computer to see if it has the latest tranny upgrades??

Anyways, I guess it's good that they didn't mention anything about your mods. Hopefully there will be better news when they hear back from the engineers. Thanks for the update.

Are you going to be able to take the Pypes off your car? or do you need to keep them on until all this is straighted out?

[polo]

can somone explain this flare to me? my car has a stock tune and exhuast but sometimes its has like a little delay and then a hard shift and sometimes I hear like a little thump, Is this it? my tahoe used to do this exact same thing, did it since new and drove it for 76k miles with no problems so I guess I was just used to it. IT mostly does it when driving at slow speeds like when it shifts slow but when im heavy footed it doesnt do it. I have 2500 miles by the way.

When the transmission shifts gears from 1-2, 2-3, etc, the RPMs should drop with each shift.

With a flare, the RPMs briefly increase right before it shifts into the next gear. It feels like the car is going into neutral for a second.

The thump you're hearing isn't the same thing.

[GeoffA]

When the transmission shifts gears from 1-2, 2-3, etc, the RPMs should drop with each shift.

With a flare, the RPMs briefly increase right before it shifts into the next gear. It feels like the car is going into neutral for a second.

The thump you're hearing isn't the same thing.

The thump might be the dreaded drive line BOOM!!!:poof:

[GeoffA]

There are a few things that seriously bother me about what happened.

First- they wouldn't let you ride in the car with them. That's BS.

Second- they didn't even let the car warm up! How do they expect to see how it truly acts unless they let it warm up?

Third- Them not wanting to keep it on their lot. It's their product, and it has a problem. They SHOULD be responsible for it until it's fixed, and they should give you a loaner vehicle until then.

Forth- Them not comparing it to the GT they had on the lot. My dealer test drove mine (with me), then drove one from the lot when I took mine in for delayed shifting/hesitation. The one on the lot did the same thing, so there was nothing they could do.

Fifth- Why didn't they just hook your car up to the computer to see if it has the latest tranny upgrades??

Anyways, I guess it's good that they didn't mention anything about your mods. Hopefully there will be better news when they hear back from the engineers. Thanks for the update.

Are you going to be able to take the Pypes off your car? or do you need to keep them on until all this is straighted out?

RESPONSE-

1) I agree. I even told them I wanted to go and I put the car seat in it.

2) True Very true, thats what the Service Mgr said also. It's a good thing he drove it weeks back when I dropped it off and felt what was happening.

3) And I tried to call him out on this because they were suppose to do the TSB for the suspension I thought, and give me an estimate for paint repair. Neither happened. I think they just want me to drive it and put more mileage on it. But I too think if it was to be damaged while on the lot it would be their responsibility.

4) He did say he thought it was a V6 but even I can play stupid most of the time...

5) Thats what I asked, he just didn't seem to want to be bothered or they did when I first dropped it off and said it was all up to date.

- Anyone know - It's a 2009 built in March '08 going into engineering mode said my GM part# is 92222102 and my Software Version is 020.022.115

Compare these numbers to yours people, let me know

6) He didn't seem to care about the exhaust, I told her I wanted it to sound like a V8 and she just smiled and said it's a nice car...

7) and you have a PM on the Pypes seeing you were the first overall showing interest in them.

[zepcom]

LOL yeah I do remember you now, cause you went up to the showroom and were sitting in the corner and I did see you looking at the other MGM. I was going to walk up to you and tell you not to bother with it...

You know what I'm saying when I said he, the service mgr, was acting shady?


Yea. I was amazed at the summer tires premium sport MGM car on the lot was listed at 34.8k, a month or two away from winter! I was also looking at that 'stock car' a little bit to compare to all the mods I did to mine in a short 6 months of ownership!

The service manager (the guy stationed closest to the garage doors?) was kinda shady to me. Not only the time promises that he had no clue about, but he kinda was trying to convince me of what I wanted, instead of me telling him what I wanted him and his service worker to do for me.

The guy in the middle station almost had my foot through his jawline when I first got there!! I was 3rd in line and I knew that I had to wait for them to put the "seat condom" and "carpet paper" on my car ... so I started to wander around a little bit... and he had the audacity to tell me "sir, if you wait right against your car, then we will know which car is yours..." ... I was like "dood, you mind your own business and finish up with the guy who you're talking to and then I'll look out the window while I'm waiting if I want to. How hard would it be for the next available service rep to ask 'okay, who has the G8' instead of being a prick." He was such a dick. Didn't have much to say to me after I called him a prick. That's why I don't go to that dealership for anything except for the roadforce balance stuff. Re-affirmed my decision from my experience today.

If I were you, when you get the answer back from the zone rep, if you are not 100% satisfied with it, start calling the shots. Get the service manager involved more, take him with you on a 'test drive' on that MGM in the parking lot and show him the way that tranny shifts. If you test drive it, you can ensure that you drive it for ~15+ minutes to ensure that the test drive car is fully warmed up, for a "fair test". Then get the service manager to repeat with you the same test in your car, give it enough time to warm up, etc. Then tell your service manager that you don't care if they pull the tranny out of that MGM in the parking lot, or replace yours, but you will (appropriately) badmouth them on any survey from GM, call the local news about your dis-satisfaction, and/or never buy another GM product ever again.... and see if it gets you anywhere.

Also in parallel, I would recommend you get a case opened with the 1-800 number for GM customer service. Reference all your documentation, including dates of when your car was out of service (3+ weeks mean that you can figuratively ask them if they are planning on reimbursing you for the month that your car was undrivable at the dealership!) and what each person up the chain (service manager, zone rep from today, etc) did or didn't do correctly.

Can't hurt to ruffle feathers from the other end (customer service) and who knows, maybe something like that done in a responsible way (no getting mad at the customer service rep, just state the facts and see what can be done!) and they may just replace/repair the tranny just to put this new "mess" behind them.

Just a suggestion. My car had a bad fuel tank a week after delivery. Needless to say, that was totally unacceptable and trust me when I say that GM made it right for me, in addition to fixing the fuel tank under full warrantee.

Good luck bud, hope it works out for you.

--zepcom

[GeoffA]

Yea. I was amazed at the summer tires premium sport MGM car on the lot was listed at 34.8k, a month or two away from winter! I was also looking at that 'stock car' a little bit to compare to all the mods I did to mine in a short 6 months of ownership!

The service manager (the guy stationed closest to the garage doors?) was kinda shady to me. Not only the time promises that he had no clue about, but he kinda was trying to convince me of what I wanted, instead of me telling him what I wanted him and his service worker to do for me.

The guy in the middle station almost had my foot through his jawline when I first got there!! I was 3rd in line and I knew that I had to wait for them to put the "seat condom" and "carpet paper" on my car ... so I started to wander around a little bit... and he had the audacity to tell me "sir, if you wait right against your car, then we will know which car is yours..." ... I was like "dood, you mind your own business and finish up with the guy who you're talking to and then I'll look out the window while I'm waiting if I want to. How hard would it be for the next available service rep to ask 'okay, who has the G8' instead of being a prick." He was such a dick. Didn't have much to say to me after I called him a prick. That's why I don't go to that dealership for anything except for the roadforce balance stuff. Re-affirmed my decision from my experience today.

If I were you, when you get the answer back from the zone rep, if you are not 100% satisfied with it, start calling the shots. Get the service manager involved more, take him with you on a 'test drive' on that MGM in the parking lot and show him the way that tranny shifts. If you test drive it, you can ensure that you drive it for ~15+ minutes to ensure that the test drive car is fully warmed up, for a "fair test". Then get the service manager to repeat with you the same test in your car, give it enough time to warm up, etc. Then tell your service manager that you don't care if they pull the tranny out of that MGM in the parking lot, or replace yours, but you will (appropriately) badmouth them on any survey from GM, call the local news about your dis-satisfaction, and/or never buy another GM product ever again.... and see if it gets you anywhere.

Also in parallel, I would recommend you get a case opened with the 1-800 number for GM customer service. Reference all your documentation, including dates of when your car was out of service (3+ weeks mean that you can figuratively ask them if they are planning on reimbursing you for the month that your car was undrivable at the dealership!) and what each person up the chain (service manager, zone rep from today, etc) did or didn't do correctly.

Can't hurt to ruffle feathers from the other end (customer service) and who knows, maybe something like that done in a responsible way (no getting mad at the customer service rep, just state the facts and see what can be done!) and they may just replace/repair the tranny just to put this new "mess" behind them.

Just a suggestion. My car had a bad fuel tank a week after delivery. Needless to say, that was totally unacceptable and trust me when I say that GM made it right for me, in addition to fixing the fuel tank under full warrantee.

Good luck bud, hope it works out for you.

--zepcom


I guess I need to grow some balls lol. Especially with my whole paint job ordeal this is unexceptable...

I think I will go up tomorrow and test drive that GT they have on the lot.

[Mlozano]

They try to get the car out of the service center as soon as possible because of lemon laws, i don't know about your state but over here if they have your car in shop for more than 30 days you can call it a lemon.

Just tell them you refuse to drive a car you think isn't safe and that it's not going anywhere until it's fixed.

And yes definetly call GM Customer service, they are completely ignorant there from my experience or just playing stupid but at least you'll have it on record. Number is 1-866-790-5600

[barr1340]

please keep us updated as I can't wait to hear the outcome of this.

[GeoffA]

... then how come they just wont do it?


#PIP4395C: Flare And/Or Harsh 2-3 Shifts - keywords bump delay second slip third - (Nov 19, 2008)


Subject: Flare and Or Harsh 2-3 Shifts


Models: 2007-2009 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT

2007-2009 Cadillac SRX, STS, XLR

2006-2009 Cadillac STS-V, XLR-V

2009 Chevrolet Avalanche, Tahoe

2008-2009 Chevrolet, Suburban

2006-2009 Chevrolet Corvette

2007-2009 Chevrolet Silverado

2007-2009 GMC Sierra

2007-2009 GMC Yukon Denali, Yukon XL Denali

2009 GMC Yukon

2008-2009 GMC Yukon XL

2008-2009 Hummer H2

2008-2009 Pontiac G8

Equipped with 6L80 (RPO MYC) or 6L90 (RPO MYD) Automatic Transmission




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This PI was superseded to add to the DO NOT replace list. Please discard PIP4395B.


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The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
Some customers may comment on a flare or harsh 2-3 shift.

Recommendation/Instructions:
This condition may be caused by leaking 1-2-3-4 and 3-5-R clutch fluid seal rings (230 in SI document 1698360). The following conditions are indications that the fluid seal rings may be leaking:

• Delayed/extended or delayed with harsh feel initial Park to Drive and/or Reverse to Drive shifts, that are more likely to occur when the transmission temperature is below approximately 40 degree C (104 degree F).


• Harsh or flaring 2-3 shifts that are more likely to occur when the transmission fluid temperature is in the approximately 0 degree C (32 degree F) to 40 degree C (104 degree F) temperature range, but can be present at any temperature.


• Harsh 2-3 shifts that are more likely to occur at less than 50% tp.


Vehicles built in the January through August, 2007 time frame are more likely to have leaking fluid seal rings

Important: When inspecting the 1-2-3-4 and 3-5-R clutch fluid seal rings (230) there probably will not be visible signs that the seal rings are damaged.

If any of the conditions above describe the flare/harsh 2-3 shift condition replace the 1-2-3-4 and 3-5-R clutch fluid seal rings (230).

DO NOT replace the valve body, TCM or fluid pump cover assembly.

Important Note: The 1-2-3-4 and 3-5-R clutch fluid seal rings (230) must be properly oriented when they are installed. Incorrect installation could lead to fluid leakage and shift concerns. Refer to SI document 2178811 for installation directions.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

[polo]

Good point. Do you get the harsh 2-3 shift everytime the 1-2 shift flares?

[GeoffA]

Good point. Do you get the harsh 2-3 shift everytime the 1-2 shift flares?

YES I do.

[GeoffA]

http://forum.grrrr8.net/showpost.php?p=32179&postcount=12

This is good, check out the PDF's on the bottom...

Thanks G8-SSV

[GeoffA]

I've also read/found this. Even though it does not state the G8, It is for the 6L80 and quite possibly debris hanging up a solenoid. This may NOT even apply anymore but I'll highlight what I found interesting...




#PIP4304A: DTC P0878 P2714 P2723 Transmission Slips In 1st 2nd 3rd Or 4th Gears And/Or Long Garage Shifts To Drive - keywords delay engage MIL - (Feb 11, 2008)

Subject: DTC P0878, P2714, P2723, transmission slips in 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th gears and/or long garage shifts to drive


Models: 2008 Cadillac CTS, Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT, SRX, STS, STS-V, XLR, XLR-V

2008 Chevrolet Corvette, Silverado, Suburban,

2008 GMC Sierra, Yukon Denali, Yukon Denali XL

2008 Hummer H2

Equipped With a 6L50 (MYB), 6L80 (MYC) or 6L90 (MYD) Transmission




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This PI was superseded add dtc P0878. Please discard PIP4304.


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The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
Customer concerns where the MIL may be illuminated and DTC P2714 and or P2723 usually along with P0878 may be found in the TCM as active or history codes. Additionally, a DTC may not be set and the customer may comment on very long park/neutral/reverse to drive garage shifts (2-3 seconds) or transmission slipping or flaring when shifting into 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th gears (upshifts/downshifts/steady state high throttle conditions)

Important: The above information would only apply to vehicles built between Oct 15, 2007 and 15 Jan 2008 (use GM VIS to verify).

Recommendation/Instructions:
Confirm condition in vehicle

• Drive the vehicle to verify customer concern


• Time the garage shift from lever movement to engagement into drive (greater than 2 seconds indicates a concern).


• Clutch slippage during "Stall" maneuver in drive (Chock a wheel, apply park brake and service brake, transmission in drive, increase throttle, limit to 2000 RPM, limit time to 2 seconds, stop test immediately if flare occurs).


If vehicle operates correctly condition may have corrected itself (sediment dislodged and blown out to sump) and part replacement may not be necessary

• If oil is in good condition (red in color) and does not have a burned odor, clear any DTCs, repeat drive audit, if no issues, return vehicle to customer.


• If oil is darkened with a distressed odor and/or pan has excessive clutch debris, disassemble the transmission for cleaning and to replace the 1-2-3-4 clutch plates, flush and flow check the transmission cooler using J-45096.


If condition is confirmed, remove transmission oil pan and inspect for darkened oil (Black / dark red in color) with a distressed odor and/or excessive clutch material in pan.

• If oil is in good condition and pan is clean, replace Control Solenoid Valve and Transmission Control Module Assembly


• If oil is darkened with a burned odor and/or pan has excessive clutch debris replace Control Solenoid Valve and Transmission Control Module Assembly and disassemble the transmission for cleaning and to replace the 1-2-3-4 clutch plates, flush and flow check the transmission cooler using J-45096.

[GeoffA]

...(4) IF THE SAME PROBLEM CANNOT BE REPAIRED AFTER FOUR OR MORE ATTEMPTS; OR IF YOUR CAR IS OUT OF SERVICE TO REPAIR A PROBLEM FOR A TOTAL OF THIRTY DAYS DURING THE WARRANTY PERIOD; OR IF THE MANUFACTURER OR ITS AGENT REFUSES TO REPAIR A SUBSTANTIAL DEFECT OR CONDITION WITHIN TWENTY DAYS OF RECEIPT OF NOTICE SENT BY YOU TO THE MANUFACTURER BY CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED; THEN YOU MAY BE ENTITLED TO EITHER A COMPARABLE CAR OR A REFUND OF YOUR PURCHASE PRICE, PLUS LICENSE AND REGISTRATION FEES, MINUS A MILEAGE ALLOWANCE ONLY IF THE VEHICLE HAS BEEN DRIVEN MORE THAN 12,000 MILES. SPECIAL NOTIFICATION REQUIREMENTS MAY APPLY TO MOTOR HOMES.

Dealer had the car for 3 weeks, (21 days) 9 more and we will have a HUGE problem :)

Thats why they wanted my car off the lot...

[Punisher]

Those sneaky bastards:secret:....so if it takes longer than the 30 days and you are entitled to a refund...what about your mods...those ARH arent cheap

[GeoffA]

As of now I just want it fixed. I love the car.


MANUFACTURER OR ITS AGENT REFUSES TO REPAIR A SUBSTANTIAL DEFECT OR CONDITION WITHIN TWENTY DAYS OF RECEIPT OF NOTICE SENT BY YOU TO THE MANUFACTURER BY CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED


This is my next step.

[Punisher]

feel ya there....sorry your going through all this...hope everything gets worked out good

[zepcom]

I guess I need to grow some balls lol. Especially with my whole paint job ordeal this is unexceptable...

I think I will go up tomorrow and test drive that GT they have on the lot.

Oh snap, but I understand as you had Junior with you last time... This time bring the big guns and leave "youngblood" home (I do hate that DOG the bounty hunter show, but every once in a while I smile at the opportunity to use the word 'youngblood' in a sentance! lol)



Recommendation/Instructions:
This condition may be caused by leaking 1-2-3-4 and 3-5-R clutch fluid seal rings (230 in SI document 1698360). The following conditions are indications that the fluid seal rings may be leaking:

• Delayed/extended or delayed with harsh feel initial Park to Drive and/or Reverse to Drive shifts, that are more likely to occur when the transmission temperature is below approximately 40 degree C (104 degree F).




Oh man!! I will admit that my 1-2 and 2-3 shifts are very crisp and smooth, but that quoted part above, I've been noticing on my car every single morning when I back up, then drive forward to leave for work. I just previously assumed that it was 'driver error' where I didn't fully apply the brake when going from reverse-to-drive.

There's at least a 3-5 second delay most times, where if I touch the gas pedal after shifting the gearshift from reverse-to-drive and sometimes even drive-to-reverse, it feels like the car is in full neutral.

I was hoping that this was NOT a problem with mine. :flame: :puke::hang:

But I may wait and see what the outcome is with yours (no offense) because as I said, while driving it's fine, it's just before the tranny is warmed fully up, there's that neutral drop that I have to be careful with and wait for the car to wake up and actually shift into the gear I selected several seconds earlier.


Good luck driving that G8 GT later today... remember to take an extended test drive to ensure that the tranny is fully up to operating temp. Couldn't hurt (that MGM GT is a 2009.5 I believe) to make note of the engineering mode numbers on that car when you TD it, if that makes any difference to you.

Also, bring print outs of the TSB with you to the dealership when you come for the test drive. Can't hurt to have 'more ammo' ... and get that letter written for preparation of certified mail.

As I said, mine is not that bad yet, but now I know what to listen/look for, so if it gets worse, I'll probably need to take mine in for the same TSB as you referenced. Mine is my daily driver, so it would suck more for me to be without (whereas you have the Jetta to get you around while the G8's in the shop, or rather, sitting out back of the dealership!)

Hope they finally do the work necessary to get your tranny fixed.

[polo]

Good research, Geoff. Be sure to print out every single one of those pages and take them with you next time to the dealer (if they act like they can't do anything for you.)

Especially this part:

MANUFACTURER OR ITS AGENT REFUSES TO REPAIR A SUBSTANTIAL DEFECT OR CONDITION WITHIN TWENTY DAYS OF RECEIPT OF NOTICE SENT BY YOU TO THE MANUFACTURER BY CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED

You can never trust them. They're always looking out for themselves, and know that 99% of their customers don't know the laws, or don't have the information that you have. I think they'll get it fixed, because that'll sure cost them a lot less than giving you a refund on your car. You should be hearing back from the zone rep today, right?

[Mlozano]

Those sneaky bastards:secret:....so if it takes longer than the 30 days and you are entitled to a refund...what about your mods...those ARH arent cheap


It's 30 total days, they don't have be consecutive.

_____________________________________

Does anyone know if dealerships are even capable of doing that kind of fix on a G8, what would it cost GM for labor at their rates?

I figure as evident in some cases they just swap out the transmission, i think it's cheaper. This tranny (From GM Dealer) runs only about $2,100 plus a few hundred more for installation.

[GeoffA]

Never heard back yet, and no missed calls today, so...

I just called and of course the Service MGR is out of the office today.

[GeoffA]

Called again at 3:04pm he (the service MGR) never picked up. Switch Board lady came back on and I left a message to call my cell.

Let's see how long it takes, any Betters? it's already been almost 4 hours...

[polo]

Called again at 3:04pm he (the service MGR) never picked up. Switch Board lady came back on and I left a message to call my cell.

Let's see how long it takes, any Betters? it's already been almost 4 hours...


I'm betting they won't call at all, and you'll be calling them first thing on Monday. Good thing you have this thread to keep track of all this nonsense, incase you need to file a complaint with someone higher up.

[starfire350]

Im a service manager at a pontiac store in Texas I wish you were closer to me... There is no reason that the service manager and or the rep havent made a decision yet. GM has gotten very good at letting the managment of the store make theses decisions. Its realy preaty simple customer complains tech verifies concern and if the tech can fix it he calls tech assist center and they tell him witch route to go. if it is more serious then he call the powertrain center and they tell him how to go about further diagnosis or starting the procedure for replacing the unit. Sounds like your getting the run around, if they havent done anything yet tell them you want to speak to the platform manager he's next up the chain over the rep that came out already.

Just for some other info my GT had 2-3 flair only on hard accell the day I bought it. Took my trans tech for a ride we came back pulled the valve body off pulled the piston out of the body and found a small metal shaving like you wound get when drilling soft metal verry slowly in the hole with the piston. he took apart the rest of the valve body cleaned it all out put it back togather shifts great. less than 2 hours from time of first test drive with a tech to last test drive. I cant imagine it being 30 days for a problem. Maby the trans tech at the shop you are going to sucks or is scarred to take it apart. The trans is different than the ones they are used to looking at but it is actually a more simple trans than the 4l60's

Good luck and you should definatly call customer assistance. PM me if you still dont get anywhere with them...

[GeoffA]

I called today for an update and talked to the MGR. He said there is no updates and he never heard back from the rep. I asked if he ordered the parts for the suspension recall and he said they have some kits in, so I just dropped the car off. The funny thing is now I'm getting a slight flare on 2-3 and little on 1-2.

[GeoffA]

Im a service manager at a pontiac store in Texas I wish you were closer to me... There is no reason that the service manager and or the rep havent made a decision yet. GM has gotten very good at letting the managment of the store make theses decisions. Its realy preaty simple customer complains tech verifies concern and if the tech can fix it he calls tech assist center and they tell him witch route to go. if it is more serious then he call the powertrain center and they tell him how to go about further diagnosis or starting the procedure for replacing the unit. Sounds like your getting the run around, if they havent done anything yet tell them you want to speak to the platform manager he's next up the chain over the rep that came out already.

Just for some other info my GT had 2-3 flair only on hard accell the day I bought it. Took my trans tech for a ride we came back pulled the valve body off pulled the piston out of the body and found a small metal shaving like you wound get when drilling soft metal verry slowly in the hole with the piston. he took apart the rest of the valve body cleaned it all out put it back togather shifts great. less than 2 hours from time of first test drive with a tech to last test drive. I cant imagine it being 30 days for a problem. Maby the trans tech at the shop you are going to sucks or is scarred to take it apart. The trans is different than the ones they are used to looking at but it is actually a more simple trans than the 4l60's

Good luck and you should definatly call customer assistance. PM me if you still dont get anywhere with them...


I will take you up on your offer.

I'm wondering If I had something like that and it blew through. I still want the seals changed though.

[GeoffA]

UPDATE

Just dropped the car off to be re-painted again. Showed the owner of the collision shop all the mistakes. He was a little ticked about the quality of the work too, but had to say that I am 99% more anal then most of his customers. I just hope they get it right this time.

[polo]

UPDATE

He was a little ticked about the quality of the work too, but had to say that I am 99% more anal then most of his customers..

He actually said that??? Wow, they must not care about doing quality work.

[GeoffA]

Yeah, I showed him the hood by the air vents how they are ruff and never wet sanded down. He said that, that would have to be hand sanded because of the curvature and they don't hand sand, they just use a buffer...I looked at him when he said that and told him it's a new car, I should be anal.

I just hope they fix it right this time and remove the side marker light and badges because they didn't do that before. I told him/showed him how to take the light off and showed him how there is overspray around the light.

I told him to take his time and get it right this time and use GM 39U paint.

[barr1340]

That is a shame that you have to tell them how to fix your NEW car. If you where close to Detroit Id say drive it to there headquarters right through the fromt door........ LOL

[gr8lover]

Interesting comment on notice:

Important Note: The 1-2-3-4 and 3-5-R clutch fluid seal rings (230) must be properly oriented when they are installed. Incorrect installation could lead to fluid leakage and shift concerns. Refer to SI document 2178811 for installation directions.

Funny thing is that there is no orientation on these seals. GM implemented a change for these seals by adding a oring and by changing the peek seal to have tabs that do not allow peek seels to move. Prior to this change there was no real orientation. After the change they wont fit and will break if incorrectly installed. Also their dates are funny in that the change in the addition of the oring and tabs on the peek seal didnt happen till 10/23/08 at Ypsilanti built transmissions and 11/5/08 for Silao Mexico transmissions. That means all 08's and a good majoritity of 09 G8's have the old style (without orings)..... also if you have 09 G8 (unless it was a REALLY early 09) the trans was built in Silao Mexico even though your car sticker may say TRANS BUILT IN USA--

[GeoffA]

Interesting comment on notice:...
Also their dates are funny in that the change in the addition of the oring and tabs on the peek seal didnt happen till 10/23/08 at Ypsilanti built transmissions and 11/5/08 for Silao Mexico transmissions. That means all 08's and a good majoritity of 09 G8's have the old style (without orings)...

Even some GXP's. I'll be talking to another dealer to get this done when I get my car back. The past two days when I took the car out, only when it was cold, It was doing the 2-3 flare now. When the car warmed up with the trans temp over 30 celcius it wasn't noticeable.

[GeoffA]

UPDATE

I did get my car back Dec 29th 2009, And most of my paint issues were taken care of. Now I have to work on that 2-3 and sometimes 1-2 flare now... ugh...

[gr8lover]

for the flare- have them order the Cover kit part #24248573. Includes everything to fix the flare related to the TSB. Unless it is something else, it should fix it.

DO not let them just replace the part#24238248. It is not the best fix for this issue. If they order it tell them to send those seals back and insist on the COVER kit

[1sicg8]

My G8 is my first brand new car and I was a little worried when I took it in for some A/C work because I had my Rotofab on it, I thought they would say something.

[zepcom]

My G8 is my first brand new car and I was a little worried when I took it in for some A/C work because I had my Rotofab on it, I thought they would say something.

Well, did they? :uhm:

Usually they only bitch about stuff if what you're bringing it in for them to fix under warrantee has an aftermarket part in that same component.