Cam as a daily user .. Need Options plz

[ss4good]

hi everyone ,,

my car is a ( lumina ss 2007 ) same as Holden ve ss 2007

Trans : M6 T56

this is the specs of my engine :


The L98 is a slightly modified version of the L76. Since Holden did not use the displacement on demand technology of the L76, some redundant hardware was removed to form the L98. Power increased to 362 bhp (270 kW)@5700rpm and 391 lb·ft (530 N·m)@4400rpm.

it means No DOD :nah: is inside ..

i don't care for drag race or racing in general :nud:

i just want to reach 400hp at least .. :)

am a daily user / addicted to high ways :)

my normal speed in the high way is 120 mph ..

i drive about 4500 miles a month ( driving addict ) :flame:


=========== SO ===========

i need to change the camshaft and Headers ..

i don't like to change other stuff ( if not necessary ) :nud:

my brother gave me three choices to think of :

Ls2 stock cam

Lingenfelter GT2-3

or

Ls6 stock cam

he said i may not change anything else except for ( Valve Springs ) to hold more power and to reach 6600 RPM .. and he is not sure of that .. !!! :windy:

for the Headers i prefer the 1 3/4 ( ARH ) so far ..

for the CAI am thinking of VR OTR ..

i may Remind you Guys that i want 400hp not 400rwhp

can you please help me finding a proper cam ( not a big one )..

even with names of other necessary parts with the chosen cam ..

Thank you in advance guys :) ..

[-Ray-]

Can't go wrong with the Livernois Stage 1.

[Tempest2000]

Coming from someone that drives 20k+ miles a year and daily drives the Stage 1 between 75-100 miles a day...

Honestly if I had it to do over again I would have gone with the Stage 1c almost the same power, but with stock like idle and drivability.

While the stage 1 has very little lope, you do have to idle it up a little to keep it from dying I want to say mine is 750-850 range instead of 550 stock. They also have to tune in a little idle hang to keep it from dying on hard stops.

Mine has never died or caused any problems, but if I had to do it over again I'd get the stage 1c livernois cam setup. Nearly the same hp down about 20hp right around 400 rwhp and stock drivability is a win win situation in my book.

Or you could go with any "cheater" cam same type of setup revs like a bigger cam with DD drivability.

My game plan is to go to a stage 1c and a maggie if things turn around first of the year at work.

[Tempest2000]

oh and as far as headers go... kooks mid length are nice if you don't want to go the longtube route...

[Executor999]

Honestly if I had it to do over again I would have gone with the Stage 1c almost the same power, but with stock like idle and drivability.

While the stage 1 has very little lope, you do have to idle it up a little to keep it from dying I want to say mine is 750-850 range instead of 550 stock. They also have to tune in a little idle hang to keep it from dying on hard stops.


What are the spec differences between the Stage 1 and Stage1c? I have the Stage 1 cam -- I didn't buy it from Livernois but got one ground to the same specs. My standing idle is 675 for the same reason as you mentioned.

What do you mean about having to tune in a little idle hang to keep it from dying on hard stops? I ask because one of the lingering issues I have is when I brake firmly, the rpms drop fast from 1000 to 500 then bounce back up to 675. My mechanic notices negative timing when this happens and is still trying to figure it out.

[ss4good]

G8 Ray

Tempest2000

thank you so much guys

waiting for experts and pros ..

i need someone to tell me about LS6 cam

LS6 cam in modles ( 2002-2004 ) with :

204/218 - 550/550 with lobe separation 117.5

this cam requires valve springs of LS6


and i think with this cam it will still be regualr idle like stock cam at 550 RPM .. with no need to idle it up ..


i neeeeeeed someone to confirm that plz ^^

[Patrick G]

hi everyone ,,

my car is a ( lumina ss 2007 ) same as Holden ve ss 2007

Gear : M6 T56

this is the specs of my engine :



it means No DOD :nah: is inside ..

i don't care for drag race or racing in general :nud:

i just want to reach 400hp at least .. :)

am a daily user / addicted to high ways :)

my normal speed in the high way is 120 mph ..

i drive about 2500 miles a month ( drive addict ) :flame:


=========== SO ===========

i need to change the camshaft and Headers ..

i don't like to change other stuff ( if not necessary ) :nud:

my brother gave me three choices to think of :

Ls2 stock cam

Lingenfelter GT2-3

or

Ls6 stock cam

he said i may not change anything else except for ( Valve Springs ) to hold more power and to reach 6600 RPM .. and he is not sure of that .. !!! :windy:

for the Headers i prefer the 1 3/4 ( ARH ) so far ..

for the CAI am thinking of VR OTR ..

can you please help me finding a proper cam ( not a big one )..

even with names of other necessary parts with the chosen cam ..

Thank you in advance guys :) ..I think you will be disappointed with the GM factory cams. Too little lift, duration and overlap to get you to 400rwhp. The LPE GT2-3 is only slightly bigger than the LS2 cam, but it has a lot more lift. The ramps are very fast and may wear out your valve springs faster than you like. It is really not big enough to get you to 400 rwhp.


Can't go wrong with the Livernois Stage 1.Yes you can. The Stage 1 cam is excellent for street strip, but it's really too big for a 24/7 DD car. It's beyond what the OP is looking for.


Coming from someone that drives 20k+ miles a year and daily drives the Stage 1 between 75-100 miles a day...

Honestly if I had it to do over again I would have gone with the Stage 1c almost the same power, but with stock like idle and drivability.

While the stage 1 has very little lope, you do have to idle it up a little to keep it from dying I want to say mine is 750-850 range instead of 550 stock. They also have to tune in a little idle hang to keep it from dying on hard stops.

Mine has never died or caused any problems, but if I had to do it over again I'd get the stage 1c livernois cam setup. Nearly the same hp down about 20hp right around 400 rwhp and stock drivability is a win win situation in my book.

Or you could go with any "cheater" cam same type of setup revs like a bigger cam with DD drivability.

My game plan is to go to a stage 1c and a maggie if things turn around first of the year at work.Excellent response. Bigger is not always better. People going with big cams usually have remorse.


What are the spec differences between the Stage 1 and Stage1c? I have the Stage 1 cam -- I didn't buy it from Livernois but got one ground to the same specs. My standing idle is 675 for the same reason as you mentioned.

What do you mean about having to tune in a little idle hang to keep it from dying on hard stops? I ask because one of the lingering issues I have is when I brake firmly, the rpms drop fast from 1000 to 500 then bounce back up to 675. My mechanic notices negative timing when this happens and is still trying to figure it out.The stage 1 cam has quite a bit more overlap and duration which makes the idle chop hard and requires extensive tuning to make it drive like stock. Your dying problems are totally tunable. You just need to find a tuner who knows which tables to hit. These new E38 ECMs are much more powerful and complex than the old LS1 PCMs. You can't use the same tricks to fix them so choose a tuner with lots of E38 experience.

Personally, I think that the Livernois Stage 1C is the closest shelf cam that will do the job for you. A custom cam would work even better because you could choose a more "endurance" type of lobe than the one that comes in the Stage 1C (which would help with reliability when piling on the miles).

[ss4good]

Patrick G


thank you so much for the heeling answer :)

my mistake that i didn't mention that i want :


i may Remind you Guys that i want 400hp not 400rwhp



edited at the begining ..

and i wanna ask you Patrick G especially about LS6 and LS2 cams for my engine and the necessity for valves or not


thanks again ,,

[Devilish34]

If you want approx 400 at the crank you don't need a cam. Headers, CAI, and a tune will add 40-50

[ss4good]

Devilish34

thank you for replying ..

50 hp is not easy to gain even with parts you mentioned ..!! :nud:

and most important to me that i want to shift at 6600 RPM and that would not be unless i put a new cam with a little more numbers ,,

look at my shifting in my video .. With 6200 RPM :

L08W5NqzYEo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L08W5NqzYEo


i neeeeeeeed 6600 RPM :hang: at least ..

[Patrick G]

400hp is approximately 340rwhp (to the rear tires). You're not asking for much if you want 400 hp (to the flywheel). A cold air induction, long tube headers and a tune will get you to the 350-360rwhp range with ease. This is with stock cam.

[ss4good]

Patrick G

thank you ,, and i am waiting for you to answer me about the LS6 cam or the LS2 cam with valve springs if needed .. !!

[Patrick G]

The 2002+ LS6 cam will make slightly more power than the stock LS2 or LS3 cam and it will easily gain you 20-25 more hp than the stock L98 cam. You will need a better beehive spring than stock. A PAC Racing 1518 or a Comp 26918 will work nicely.

[Executor999]

Personally, I think that the Livernois Stage 1C is the closest shelf cam that will do the job for you.

Where can I find the specs for the stage 1c cam?

[Devilish34]

Where can I find the specs for the stage 1c cam?

Livernois's site

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/downloads/Images/camspecl92stg1c.jpg

[G8DRIV3R]

im putting 358 rwhp with just tune, longtubes, cai, and exhaust....im guessing thats near 415 hp flywheel......and there are guys here with same setup getting near 370 wheel hp with a more aggressive tune.......you do not have to do a cam to get 400 hp crank

[ss4good]

Patrick G

thank you so much for your time

i really appreciate your efforts and experiment :)

i think soon i'll start with ARH 1-3/4 with stock mufflers and a VR CAI plus a tune .. after that am gonna go cam :woohoo:


best regards

[ss4good]

G8DRIV3R

Do you mean that ..with just tune, longtubes, cai .. i will go 415 hp .. !!

it means that the engine Power will be equal to LS3 .. !!!

if that so :) then i guess am going up to 450+ hp crank with the cam plus what you mentioned

[svtcobra]

+1 Livernois Stage 1C

[Patrick G]

G8DRIV3R

Do you mean that ..with just tune, longtubes, cai .. i will go 415 hp .. !!

it means that the engine Power will be equal to LS3 .. !!!

if that so :) then i guess am going up to 450+ hp crank with the cam plus what you mentionedWith CAI, long tube headers, and tune, you will make 20-30 more horsepower to the tires than a stock GXP with the LS3 engine. The L76 and L98 motors are under-rated from the factory and in my opinion, while the LS3 engines are slightly over-rated. Most chassis dynos only show a G8 GXP 6.2L LS3 with an A6 transmission making 10-20 more hp to the tires than a G8 GT (even though the factory hp rating for the LS3 is 54 hp higher).

[Lil Z]

With CAI, long tube headers, and tune, you will make 20-30 more horsepower to the tires than a stock GXP with the LS3 engine. The L76 and L98 motors are under-rated from the factory and in my opinion, while the LS3 engines are slightly over-rated. Most chassis dynos only show a G8 GXP 6.2L LS3 with an A6 transmission making 10-20 more hp to the tires than a G8 GT (even though the factory hp rating for the LS3 is 54 hp higher).


200/208 0.472 0.479 .. for l99
204/211 0.551 0.522 .. for LS3
195/201 0.500 0.492 .. for L99

Both LS3 and L99 are Max. rpm 6600
they are the same almost . It just camshaft difference wich makes about 25 hp .Despite DOD because you can hit 6600 with v8 by passing 2500 rpm
So, i don't think that you can get more than 40 hp at the flywheel with CAI, LT's Headers AND tune ( while you still in safe side area )
my point is that you can't get 415 flywheel horsepower just with Air Intake and Headers .. also you can't be like LS3 power even if its bone stock
differences are bigger camshaft, better valves, stronger springs and injectros of Ls7 .. that make it not easy .
The Q. is : when you have on of GM factory cams into l76/l98 will you still like stock car ? no fear of problems even after years = still safe ?

[grandmacpubah]

200/208 0.472 0.479 .. for l99
204/211 0.551 0.522 .. for LS3
195/201 0.500 0.492 .. for L99

Both LS3 and L99 are Max. rpm 6600
they are the same almost . It just camshaft difference wich makes about 25 hp .Despite DOD because you can hit 6600 with v8 by passing 2500 rpm
So, i don't think that you can get more than 40 hp at the flywheel with CAI, LT's Headers AND tune ( while you still in safe side area )
my point is that you can't get 415 flywheel horsepower just with Air Intake and Headers .. also you can't be like LS3 power even if its bone stock
differences are bigger camshaft, better valves, stronger springs and injectros of Ls7 .. that make it not easy .
The Q. is : when you have on of GM factory cams into l76/l98 will you still like stock car ? no fear of problems even after years = still safe ?


Oo oO O_O oo uhhhh....can someone please translate this for me?

[Devilish34]

Oo oO O_O oo uhhhh....can someone please translate this for me?

I think he said if you gain 50-55 rwhp from a tune, cai, Lt headers it won't get you 415 crank hp

[Patrick G]

200/208 0.472 0.479 .. for l99
204/211 0.551 0.522 .. for LS3
195/201 0.500 0.492 .. for L99

Both LS3 and L99 are Max. rpm 6600
they are the same almost . It just camshaft difference wich makes about 25 hp .Despite DOD because you can hit 6600 with v8 by passing 2500 rpm
So, i don't think that you can get more than 40 hp at the flywheel with CAI, LT's Headers AND tune ( while you still in safe side area )
my point is that you can't get 415 flywheel horsepower just with Air Intake and Headers .. also you can't be like LS3 power even if its bone stock
differences are bigger camshaft, better valves, stronger springs and injectros of Ls7 .. that make it not easy .
The Q. is : when you have on of GM factory cams into l76/l98 will you still like stock car ? no fear of problems even after years = still safe ?This is only valid if the factory ratings of 361hp for the L76 was accurate. But it's not accurate.

Real world testing shows the LS3 A6 only 10-20 rwhp stronger than the L76 A6 on a chassis dyno (stock tune). This proves that GM vastly underrates the L76 hp rating just like they did with the LS1 F-bodies vs. Corvettes. Back then, GM rated the F-bodies at 305hp and the Corvettes at 345hp, but the reality was that the F-body actually put down over 300rwhp on the chassis dyno while the Vette put out around 5 rwhp LESS.

The reality is, the actual hp of the L76 motor is closer to 385-390hp, not 361. The L99 is an honest 400hp motor. The L98 is close in specs to the L76 so the reality is that it is much closer to 385-390hp than its factory rating too.

[GTeve]

This is only valid if the factory ratings of 361hp for the L76 was accurate. But it's not accurate.

Real world testing shows the LS3 A6 only 10-20 rwhp stronger than the L76 A6 on a chassis dyno (stock tune). This proves that GM vastly underrates the L76 hp rating just like they did with the LS1 F-bodies vs. Corvettes. Back then, GM rated the F-bodies at 305hp and the Corvettes at 345hp, but the reality was that the F-body actually put down over 300rwhp on the chassis dyno while the Vette put out around 5 rwhp LESS.

The reality is, the actual hp of the L76 motor is closer to 385-390hp, not 361. The L99 is an honest 400hp motor. The L98 is close in specs to the L76 so the reality is that it is much closer to 385-390hp than its factory rating too.

Though it may be difficult to determine true CRANK horsepower without an engine dyno. The efficiency of the transmission plays too large of a role to determine crank horsepower from car to car without knowing the exact efficiency rating of each tranny. Its also difficult to determine what the L76 engine actually makes without knowing the efficiency of the auto tranny (when using a chassis dyno).

Now if the trannys are the same from car to car, thats a different story.

Truthfully, I believe it is better to base all power numbers from rwhp because that is what actually matters when you step on the gas.

[Patrick G]

Though it may be difficult to determine true CRANK horsepower without an engine dyno. The efficiency of the transmission plays too large of a role to determine crank horsepower from car to car without knowing the exact efficiency rating of each tranny. Its also difficult to determine what the L76 engine actually makes without knowing the efficiency of the auto tranny (when using a chassis dyno).

Now if the trannys are the same from car to car, thats a different story.

Truthfully, I believe it is better to base all power numbers from rwhp because that is what actually matters when you step on the gas.When comparing a G8 GT 6.0L with an A6, a G8 GXP 6.2L LS3 with an A6, and a Camaro 6.2L L99 with an A6, you CAN compare power from chassis dyno runs because the transmissions and torque converters are the same for all of them. The biggest variable is the engine.

[Lil Z]

The reality is, the actual hp of the L76 motor is closer to 385-390hp, not 361. The L99 is an honest 400hp motor. The L98 is close in specs to the L76 so the reality is that it is much closer to 385-390hp than its factory rating too.

I understand that L76/L98 will be more than 430 hp (around 395 rwhp) if you install LS6 camshaft, CAI and LT's ?
and will be still DD and idle like a factory stock ?

[09gtt]

I think 430 hp is more like 360 rwhp. Which you can get just by lt's, cai, and a tune.

[vic2186]

I made 448hp on a dyno jet corrected and 430 on a mustang dyno corrected..to the motor you times it by .0 something which gives you crank hp so ishould be at 540??