Daily Driver Power

[TCorzett]

I've been bitten by the mod bug. My Corsa cat-back exhaust is sitting in the living room and the JBA shorty headers and Volant intake are in the mail. These should be installed in the next few weeks, but I have been thinking about what is next.

The G8 GT is my daily driver, so I can't sacrifice (much) street-ability for performance. I want a car that can idle in traffic and will be happy when not at WOT. The setup MUST be able to pass California smog (sniffer and visual), even at a cost to performance. If I can get around 400rwhp I'd be happy.

I really like the idea of the Magnacharger... bolt it on (CARB legal) and get increases across the entire power band. I would like a reliable engine (and at the point of a supercharger I'm kissing my factory warranty goodbye anyhow), so am not against opening-up the motor to strengthen-up the potenital 'weak points'.

Reading comments in the Would you cam or supercharge first? (http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=10325) thread the concerns about leaving the DOD hardware in place if I was to supercharge (especially since I'm not going to actually use it) get me thinking. How big of a deal is the DOD hardware in a supercharged engine? Is it necessary to remove it to get a reliable engine?

So if I was going to open-up the engine to remove the DOD hardware, a cam would be a reasonable option at that point... but I don't know how this would effect smog and street-ability. How aggressive is something like the Livernois Motorsports Stage 1 L92 Camshaft (part of the DOD Delete camshaft package)? Would it be able to pass the sniffer tests for Ca smog (with or without the supercharger)?

If I was going to be doing any of the work it would all be done at the same time. A cam or supercharger should reach my goals, so what do people think is best for my situation? Smog legal and street-able... which is better? I don't really think I need both a supercharger and a cam with the HP numbers I'm looking for, but would the most reliable (yet still smog legal) system be the supercharger with a DOD delete cam/hardware?

Sorry for the novel, and thanks for any information!

-Todd...

[jaxredg8]

I went with cam and spray. That way I have the added hp when I want. You will never find a clear cut answer to these questions. Just do what you feel comfortable with. And good luck with whatever path you take!

[Ktlplxm]

The charger would probably be your best bet for CARB testing. I'm not familiar enough with the test procedures in CA enough to say what cam would work, or if altering the DOD would pass. In NC its fairly easy since its all plug in testing.

[pha|anx]

*bump*

these are some good questions. currently debating either a blower or cam setup for my daily driver... currently inconclusive for the reasons above...

anyone?

[BlownPoncho]

As far as I have heard the :worthy:Maggie is the way you want to go for DD performace. You get all the power you can use on the street plus great drivability and sometimes better fuel economy. I have been considering a supercharger also and the only thing I am thinking about upgrading are the connecting rod bolts just in case because i have heard that they are the weak point in the bottom end. Also your goal of 400rwhp Would have been easily achieved with just the Maggie so I think youll be looking at more like 450-500:D. As far as the DOD equipment goes the only time i have heard of it giving problems is at higher rpm and lots of boost. I dont think with 6400 rpm and 6 lbs of boost the DOD is gonna give you any problems. That just my opion though I would love to here everyone elses.

[99-LS1-SS]

Once you get to 400 rwhp you'll get used to it and want 450 rwhp and then 500 rwhp and so on and so on....

[MGMG8GT]

Nice thing about a Maggie is when you are done with the car, you can possibly take the Maggie with you to the next LSx car you buy or at the very least, sell it to recoup some of the cost.

[David G8GT]

With just the maggie you will be over 400. You can also buy a 3 year warranty through them for 200 I believe. You will have to keep everything stock though.

I have one with injectors and a smaller pulley and I put down 442 rwhp on a mustang dyno. The car drives like stock until you hit the gas. Maggied cars have proven to be pretty reliable. I wouldnt worry about breaking anything until you are putting down over 500. Get the maggie:thumbsup:

[Livernois Motorsports]

I've been bitten by the mod bug. My Corsa cat-back exhaust is sitting in the living room and the JBA shorty headers and Volant intake are in the mail. These should be installed in the next few weeks, but I have been thinking about what is next.

The G8 GT is my daily driver, so I can't sacrifice (much) street-ability for performance. I want a car that can idle in traffic and will be happy when not at WOT. The setup MUST be able to pass California smog (sniffer and visual), even at a cost to performance. If I can get around 400rwhp I'd be happy.

I really like the idea of the Magnacharger... bolt it on (CARB legal) and get increases across the entire power band. I would like a reliable engine (and at the point of a supercharger I'm kissing my factory warranty goodbye anyhow), so am not against opening-up the motor to strengthen-up the potenital 'weak points'.

Reading comments in the Would you cam or supercharge first? (http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=10325) thread the concerns about leaving the DOD hardware in place if I was to supercharge (especially since I'm not going to actually use it) get me thinking. How big of a deal is the DOD hardware in a supercharged engine? Is it necessary to remove it to get a reliable engine?

So if I was going to open-up the engine to remove the DOD hardware, a cam would be a reasonable option at that point... but I don't know how this would effect smog and street-ability. How aggressive is something like the Livernois Motorsports Stage 1 L92 Camshaft (part of the DOD Delete camshaft package)? Would it be able to pass the sniffer tests for Ca smog (with or without the supercharger)?

If I was going to be doing any of the work it would all be done at the same time. A cam or supercharger should reach my goals, so what do people think is best for my situation? Smog legal and street-able... which is better? I don't really think I need both a supercharger and a cam with the HP numbers I'm looking for, but would the most reliable (yet still smog legal) system be the supercharger with a DOD delete cam/hardware?

Sorry for the novel, and thanks for any information!

-Todd...

Todd,

You have a lot of good questions.

Since we don't have emissions testing in MI, I cannot guarantee our cams will pass the sniffer. I know we have customers in states the do the testing via the OBD-II port and they haven't had issues with the stage 1 or stage 2 cams. Visually, you wouldn't see it, but obviously you would hear it. If you wanted something more mild than the stage 1, you could do our stage 1C "stealth" cam which doesn't have much lope, but still makes great power. Specs are 218/229 .600/.600 117.5 LSA. This cam is available for $429.99 or with our DOD Kit for $1429.99.

The stage 1C cam can be heard in our GXP here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uRLb7BPqQI)

The LS-Series engine family will take a lot of power, so if you were doing only the Maggie and bolt-on's, I wouldn't worry about doing internals.

We have a lot of customers that have the stage 1 in their daily driver and it's definitely noticeably lopey at idle and does change drivability more than a Maggie would.

We have built cars that run great with cams and cars that run great with Maggies, or both cam and Maggie... You could reach your goal either way.

Thank you,

Rick LeBlanc
Livernois Motorsports

[Ktlplxm]

I've been bitten by the mod bug. My Corsa cat-back exhaust is sitting in the living room and the JBA shorty headers and Volant intake are in the mail. These should be installed in the next few weeks, but I have been thinking about what is next.

The G8 GT is my daily driver, so I can't sacrifice (much) street-ability for performance. I want a car that can idle in traffic and will be happy when not at WOT. The setup MUST be able to pass California smog (sniffer and visual), even at a cost to performance. If I can get around 400rwhp I'd be happy.

I really like the idea of the Magnacharger... bolt it on (CARB legal) and get increases across the entire power band. I would like a reliable engine (and at the point of a supercharger I'm kissing my factory warranty goodbye anyhow), so am not against opening-up the motor to strengthen-up the potenital 'weak points'.

Reading comments in the Would you cam or supercharge first? (http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=10325) thread the concerns about leaving the DOD hardware in place if I was to supercharge (especially since I'm not going to actually use it) get me thinking. How big of a deal is the DOD hardware in a supercharged engine? Is it necessary to remove it to get a reliable engine?

So if I was going to open-up the engine to remove the DOD hardware, a cam would be a reasonable option at that point... but I don't know how this would effect smog and street-ability. How aggressive is something like the Livernois Motorsports Stage 1 L92 Camshaft (part of the DOD Delete camshaft package)? Would it be able to pass the sniffer tests for Ca smog (with or without the supercharger)?

If I was going to be doing any of the work it would all be done at the same time. A cam or supercharger should reach my goals, so what do people think is best for my situation? Smog legal and street-able... which is better? I don't really think I need both a supercharger and a cam with the HP numbers I'm looking for, but would the most reliable (yet still smog legal) system be the supercharger with a DOD delete cam/hardware?

Sorry for the novel, and thanks for any information!

-Todd...

Its just a matter of what you want or can afford to spend. Mine is a 427 with a 2300 that gets 29-30 mpg highway and can be driven anywhere. Its just what you want out of a car. If you do things NA driveability is affected quicker for less power, but costs less. FI cost more, but has way less sacrifice.

[fastg8mi]

Its just a matter of what you want or can afford to spend. Mine is a 427 with a 2300 that gets 29-30 mpg highway and can be driven anywhere. Its just what you want out of a car. If you do things NA driveability is affected quicker for less power, but costs less. FI cost more, but has way less sacrifice.

hey aden, when did you put a 2300 on?

[Ktlplxm]

October

[13 QTR]

^ I see you have a new sig pic....where's my email?

a 2300? damn....I thought you were still N/A....there goes my chance to take ya. I guess,I'll have to concentrate on charlie and george and the Devil....:boxing:

[Ktlplxm]

Haha... I warned you about biting off more than u can chew: )
Refresh my memory, email?

[13 QTR]

Haha... I warned you about biting off more than u can chew: )
Refresh my memory, email?

the email part was for another member..who will remain anonymous....he was sending me pics like what you keep putting in your sig. Plus...some that was NWS...aka porn...

[Ktlplxm]

Gotcha.

. Ktlplxm@gmail.com

[fastg8mi]

have you dynoed with the blower on? or is that secret info :)

[Ktlplxm]

have you dynoed with the blower on? or is that secret info :)

:)

[VegasNate]

My guess would be around 700 rwhp. Hot or cold? :headbang:

[MGM GT]

My guess would be around 700 rwhp. Hot or cold? :headbang:

I'd be pissed if it was any less after all that.

Although I've seen 2300's on 427's anywhere in the 600-900hp range with gobs of torque. Just depends on heads, cam, PSI, trans, etc..

I know I'm still debating which way to go in the future.

[Ktlplxm]

My guess would be around 700 rwhp. Hot or cold? :headbang:

Warm
Its hard to say accurately since dynos vary. I've seen as much as 40-45 hp variance between two chassis dynos.
Doesn't matter much. the maggie is sold and is coming off the car in February


I'd be pissed if it was any less after all that.

Although I've seen 2300's on 427's anywhere in the 600-900hp range with gobs of torque. Just depends on heads, cam, PSI, trans, etc..

I know I'm still debating which way to go in the future.

The 2300 will make the power but if going FI I wouldn't build a big engine again. Too many other factors begin to mess with everything. During my build
I spoke with the guys at Hennessey as well as Lingenfelter. They both agreed that once you get above the 402-406-408 inch engines, the Maggies just have a hard time keeping up (especially at lower boost levels). Camshaft selection becomes a very VERY crucial factor. My camshaft sucks for a 2300. It actually is too small for the cubes as well.
My other limiting factors were:
a) smooth deep Idle, no lope
b) factory stall range torque converter
c) street manners - can be driven in any weather, any climate, any time
d) ZERO loss of mileage
e) be able to fill up anywhere on 93 octane (ie no race fuel, race fuel mix, E85, methanol, etc necessary)

It meets everyone of my criteria :first:, but its time for more

[r33pwrd]

Its to bad the maggies are so much money! It apears that ever car I have ownerd the supercharges are expensive! I should buy a mustang just so I can supercharge it!

[MGM GT]

Warm
Its hard to say accurately since dynos vary. I've seen as much as 40-45 hp variance between two chassis dynos.
Doesn't matter much. the maggie is sold and is coming off the car in February



The 2300 will make the power but if going FI I wouldn't build a big engine again. Too many other factors begin to mess with everything. During my build
I spoke with the guys at Hennessey as well as Lingenfelter. They both agreed that once you get above the 402-406-408 inch engines, the Maggies just have a hard time keeping up (especially at lower boost levels). Camshaft selection becomes a very VERY crucial factor. My camshaft sucks for a 2300. It actually is too small for the cubes as well.
My other limiting factors were:
a) smooth deep Idle, no lope
b) factory stall range torque converter
c) street manners - can be driven in any weather, any climate, any time
d) ZERO loss of mileage
e) be able to fill up anywhere on 93 octane (ie no race fuel, race fuel mix, E85, methanol, etc necessary)

It meets everyone of my criteria :first:, but its time for more

Ain't that the truth, I've seen my turbo car and others vary more then 100hp dyno to dyno. Turbos are finicky as hell but when the planets align they make great power. I love turbos but every aftermarket turbo car I've ever owned or seen requires a ton of maintenance.

I too love streetable cars. I can put up with a little cam lope at idle and a higher stall but I do require being able to drive it all the time on pump gas.

So you going twins?

[Ktlplxm]

Everything is still up in the air. Have to figure out the specifics before I go any further but, I have a few different avenues I'm pursuing.

[MGM GT]

Everything is still up in the air. Have to figure out the specifics before I go any further but, I have a few different avenues I'm pursuing.

I honestly would like a single kit! Tuck it right between the radiator and engine with minimal piping. I've seen various cars at the track with that setup and it seems to work very well.

On another note my buddy did this custom setup on a GTO:

In progress:
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj114/powertvmedia/ttgtoengine.jpg

All done:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/04LS1GTO/2005%20GTO/Twin%20Turbo%20fabrication/DSC00807.jpg

[Ktlplxm]

Whatever way I finally decide on, I plan on being able to pop the hood, and it look like a stock with bolt-on car

That GTO set-up is nice though

[99-LS1-SS]

That's a nice looking setup on the Goat!

[99-LS1-SS]

Whatever way I finally decide on, I plan on being able to pop the hood, and it look like a stock with bolt-on car

That GTO set-up is nice though

Any ideas on what intake you'll be running? :)

[Ktlplxm]

More likely than not I'll run a VMS ported intake. I've tested them and I know they make the power that they're supposed to. My FAST rep keeps wanting me to put one of theirs on it (even though he was present the first time I tested it and took it back off). I told him if he can get me one around 300 I'll run it, but I'm not paying even W/D for it. I do wish they'd hurry up and fully release the 85lb shorties though. I can put them to use in the near future no matter what.

[Ktlplxm]

I do like this though :

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb222/ktlplxm/ls6-billet-bank.jpg

[2StepsAhead]

I honestly would like a single kit! Tuck it right between the radiator and engine with minimal piping. I've seen various cars at the track with that setup and it seems to work very well.


http://www.aseturbo.com/HOLDEN/VE-COMMODORE/SINGLE-TURBO-KIT-GT1000-T51-VE/prod_91.html

[MGM GT]

I do like this though :

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb222/ktlplxm/ls6-billet-bank.jpg

Thats not very stealthy... trying to hide it under the factory engine cover? haha

Edit: HOLY 'ISH I just looked up the price on that bad boy... nothing like a $4,000 intake manifold.



http://www.aseturbo.com/HOLDEN/VE-COMMODORE/SINGLE-TURBO-KIT-GT1000-T51-VE/prod_91.html

Why must you tempt thee??? Little pricey though, I've been quoted a few thousand cheaper (actually about half what they have listed) for what looks to be a similar setup.

[Ktlplxm]

Thats not very stealthy... trying to hide it under the factory engine cover? haha

Edit: HOLY 'ISH I just looked up the price on that bad boy... nothing like a $4,000 intake manifold.




Why must you tempt thee??? Little pricey though, I've been quoted a few thousand cheaper (actually about half what they have listed) for what looks to be a similar setup.

Yeah that ones not stealthy at all. It would be a bitch to hide the solenoids under the intake cover as well haha

If you think that price is high you should see what one of our vendors quoted me on a TT kit theyve already built once. Almost 20K