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Thread: How Restrictive are the stock Mufflers? This much.....

  1. #11
    Moderator, Retired -Ray-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s/c'd cav View Post
    you really drive your car with the gas pedal FLOORED between 2700 and 4200rpm ?

    you would only be using that range floor at the track , not on the street in normal average conditions
    Have you seen Henry drive? Regardless of what you see in the graph, it still makes sense for Henry to dump the mufflers.

    Quote Originally Posted by s/c'd cav View Post
    well since when have you ever seen anyone on a dyno , test in your average daily driving use ?

    ive seen it done , NOT NEVER EVER !!!!!!

    so in the real world , all the dyno is showing he will loose time(ie slower) at the track , so it shows nothing on how the car is driven in light throttle use
    CARB does it. Any manufacturer trying to obtain a CARB cert.
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    Last edited by -Ray-; 03-15-2015 at 02:31 AM.
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    S/C'D Cav, You are entitled to your opinion and view. It just doesn't happen to be mine.


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    Im getting a kick out of this because S/C'D Cav and I were talking about this very subject, just last night over dinner with friends. Haaa.
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    Beyond Help gr8lover's Avatar
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    I am lost.... so he is saying dyno graphs mean nothing?... so when I am driving at 2000rpm and accelarate up thru the rpm's, I wouldnt be seeing the power as shown on the graph ... or the increase of power?... at 3500 rpm the power is the power on the graph... when you accelerate thru that point... are you saying he doesnt have that power increase?..... and when was the last time you seen a car accelerate on the dyno at full throttle?.... you slowly accelerate up to full throttle....

    I am at a loss?...... either way... like ray says, the dyno shows he will have more useable power..... so whats your issue?...
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr8lover View Post
    Suprised you still have stock muffs.... but yea thats alot!!!!!!!!!
    Well, I really wanted a quiet daily driver - sleeper. It has a full ARH system but I had the "goofy" idea of using stock mufflers to keep her quiet and mama would be willing to drive.

    I think these Cherry Bomb Vortex& mid muffler may give me a a workable solution.. I'm hoping to dyno again.

    Option #2 could be a quality electric cutout in front of the stock mufflers.


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    2009 G8 GT
    ARH Long Tubes 1 7/8" / Magnaflow Mid Muffler / Cherry Bomb Vortex Mufflers / Magnuson Supercharger 1.9 / Ported blower base / 2.8" Pulley / LS3 rockers with Trunion upgrade / Trick Flow LS3 cylinder heads / Overdrive "non-cog" pulley system / 8-Rib Pulley system / ATI Super Damper / DOD Delete / Lunati Lifters / Custom Patrick G Cam Grind / Wiseco Forged Pistons / Injector Dynamics 85lbs / 4" RotoFab Intake Tube / 90mm MAF Tube / VMax 90mm Ported Throttle Body / LS7 MAF Card / ZL1 Fuel Pump / JMS Fuel Pump Booster / VaporWorx Controller / B&M Tranny Cooler with fan / Circle-D Heavy Duty Rebuild & 265mm triple Disc Billet Converter / Camaro Tranny Pan / Custom Engine & Tranny Tune by Patrick G / Eibach Lowering Springs / BMR Front & Rear Sway Bars & LCA's / Moog Front Control Arms / DBA 4000xs Rotors / Hawks Ceramic Pads / Breyton BE Wheels

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    are you going to use the 3" in/out Vortex? The Magnaflow 12468 is only 2.5 in/out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr8lover View Post
    I am lost.... so he is saying dyno graphs mean nothing?... so when I am driving at 2000rpm and accelarate up thru the rpm's, I wouldnt be seeing the power as shown on the graph ... or the increase of power?... at 3500 rpm the power is the power on the graph... when you accelerate thru that point... are you saying he doesnt have that power increase?..... and when was the last time you seen a car accelerate on the dyno at full throttle?.... you slowly accelerate up to full throttle....

    I am at a loss?...... either way... like ray says, the dyno shows he will have more useable power..... so whats your issue?...
    This is precisely where my head was at. I must have a flaw in my logic - quite possible. So I'm trying to learn.......
    2009 G8 GT
    ARH Long Tubes 1 7/8" / Magnaflow Mid Muffler / Cherry Bomb Vortex Mufflers / Magnuson Supercharger 1.9 / Ported blower base / 2.8" Pulley / LS3 rockers with Trunion upgrade / Trick Flow LS3 cylinder heads / Overdrive "non-cog" pulley system / 8-Rib Pulley system / ATI Super Damper / DOD Delete / Lunati Lifters / Custom Patrick G Cam Grind / Wiseco Forged Pistons / Injector Dynamics 85lbs / 4" RotoFab Intake Tube / 90mm MAF Tube / VMax 90mm Ported Throttle Body / LS7 MAF Card / ZL1 Fuel Pump / JMS Fuel Pump Booster / VaporWorx Controller / B&M Tranny Cooler with fan / Circle-D Heavy Duty Rebuild & 265mm triple Disc Billet Converter / Camaro Tranny Pan / Custom Engine & Tranny Tune by Patrick G / Eibach Lowering Springs / BMR Front & Rear Sway Bars & LCA's / Moog Front Control Arms / DBA 4000xs Rotors / Hawks Ceramic Pads / Breyton BE Wheels

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    Quote Originally Posted by reddeadg8 View Post
    are you going to use the 3" in/out Vortex? The Magnaflow 12468 is only 2.5 in/out.
    Everything will be 2.5" ..... The ARH system catback is 2.5"
    2009 G8 GT
    ARH Long Tubes 1 7/8" / Magnaflow Mid Muffler / Cherry Bomb Vortex Mufflers / Magnuson Supercharger 1.9 / Ported blower base / 2.8" Pulley / LS3 rockers with Trunion upgrade / Trick Flow LS3 cylinder heads / Overdrive "non-cog" pulley system / 8-Rib Pulley system / ATI Super Damper / DOD Delete / Lunati Lifters / Custom Patrick G Cam Grind / Wiseco Forged Pistons / Injector Dynamics 85lbs / 4" RotoFab Intake Tube / 90mm MAF Tube / VMax 90mm Ported Throttle Body / LS7 MAF Card / ZL1 Fuel Pump / JMS Fuel Pump Booster / VaporWorx Controller / B&M Tranny Cooler with fan / Circle-D Heavy Duty Rebuild & 265mm triple Disc Billet Converter / Camaro Tranny Pan / Custom Engine & Tranny Tune by Patrick G / Eibach Lowering Springs / BMR Front & Rear Sway Bars & LCA's / Moog Front Control Arms / DBA 4000xs Rotors / Hawks Ceramic Pads / Breyton BE Wheels

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Ray- View Post
    Have you seen Henry drive? Regardless of what you see in the graph, it still makes sense for Henry to dump the mufflers.



    CARB does it. Any manufacturer trying to obtain a CARB cert.
    AQMD
    There may be more.
    cant say that i have

    when CARB , and manufactures do it , they arent doing it for HP numbers , they are doing it for emissions reasons , and tuners will do it for fuel and timing mapping instead of street driving , but again not measuring for max HP

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8lover View Post
    I am lost.... so he is saying dyno graphs mean nothing?... so when I am driving at 2000rpm and accelarate up thru the rpm's, I wouldnt be seeing the power as shown on the graph ... or the increase of power?... at 3500 rpm the power is the power on the graph... when you accelerate thru that point... are you saying he doesnt have that power increase?..... and when was the last time you seen a car accelerate on the dyno at full throttle?.... you slowly accelerate up to full throttle....

    I am at a loss?...... either way... like ray says, the dyno shows he will have more useable power..... so whats your issue?...
    the dyno graph is only showing WIDE OPEN THROTTLE , and yes that is a large reduction in power AT wide open

    on the street when you are driving normally(not trying to haul ass everywhere , lol) any power loss in that range , would be ALOT LESS , if even noticeable , which is why i said the dyno is useless at that point


    at the track yes the power loss will make a sizable difference , but it can also help from not blowing the tires up in smoke as fast , its always been a given the stock GT muffs are restrictive , and zap the power , BUT they do their job of keeping the car quiet and the annoying DRONE out of the car !

    ive got the stock GT muff on mine for daily driving , and swap to my kooks mufflers for track use which drone like hell , and i have driven mine daily with the kooks , and its unnoticeable between the 2 muffs when driving around

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    Quote Originally Posted by s/c'd cav View Post
    cant say that i have

    when CARB , and manufactures do it , they arent doing it for HP numbers , they are doing it for emissions reasons , and tuners will do it for fuel and timing mapping instead of street driving , but again not measuring for max HP



    the dyno graph is only showing WIDE OPEN THROTTLE , and yes that is a large reduction in power AT wide open

    on the street when you are driving normally(not trying to haul ass everywhere , lol) any power loss in that range , would be ALOT LESS , if even noticeable , which is why i said the dyno is useless at that point


    at the track yes the power loss will make a sizable difference , but it can also help from not blowing the tires up in smoke as fast , its always been a given the stock GT muffs are restrictive , and zap the power , BUT they do their job of keeping the car quiet and the annoying DRONE out of the car !

    ive got the stock GT muff on mine for daily driving , and swap to my kooks mufflers for track use which drone like hell , and i have driven mine daily with the kooks , and its unnoticeable between the 2 muffs when driving around
    There is "clearly" a set of assumption being deployed here (from both perspectives).

    a) The rpm range in question does indeed take into account daily driving (i.e., passing on the freeway, freeway on-ramp accelerations, passing in many other quasi-normal driving conditions). The assumption that WOT is "purely a track only" premise - has just a wee bit of oversight.

    b) Relative to the "street when you are driving normal" (i.e., if this is your sole premise - then your argument has logic and validity). I agree with you. However, I don't "always" drive this way. I would surmise that "most" on this forum don't "always" drive this way either. Somehow, for some strange reason, we all have "Driver Turret Syndrome" (a terrible disease whereby the right foot buries the loud pedal for reasons unknown)

    c) However, if you refer to item "(a)" you will also need to concur that "normal driving" brings with it instances of WOT driving. Thus my premise.


    d) Interestingly, my car has "never" been to the track. Never. Not that I don't want to by the way.... but it has, thus far, spent its entire driving life on the streets of Houston.

    e) I trust you don't interpret this as an "forum argument" rather a healthy exchange of perspectives and ideology. I was simply sharing my dyno chart to share insights to a bunch of damn cool guys who have been extraordinarily helpful to me in the past.
    2009 G8 GT
    ARH Long Tubes 1 7/8" / Magnaflow Mid Muffler / Cherry Bomb Vortex Mufflers / Magnuson Supercharger 1.9 / Ported blower base / 2.8" Pulley / LS3 rockers with Trunion upgrade / Trick Flow LS3 cylinder heads / Overdrive "non-cog" pulley system / 8-Rib Pulley system / ATI Super Damper / DOD Delete / Lunati Lifters / Custom Patrick G Cam Grind / Wiseco Forged Pistons / Injector Dynamics 85lbs / 4" RotoFab Intake Tube / 90mm MAF Tube / VMax 90mm Ported Throttle Body / LS7 MAF Card / ZL1 Fuel Pump / JMS Fuel Pump Booster / VaporWorx Controller / B&M Tranny Cooler with fan / Circle-D Heavy Duty Rebuild & 265mm triple Disc Billet Converter / Camaro Tranny Pan / Custom Engine & Tranny Tune by Patrick G / Eibach Lowering Springs / BMR Front & Rear Sway Bars & LCA's / Moog Front Control Arms / DBA 4000xs Rotors / Hawks Ceramic Pads / Breyton BE Wheels

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